If you're interested in discussing my type, I'd encourage you to start a topic about it. No need to talk about my type here in a topic about niffweed's type. I'll even post a functional breakdown I wrote (one that I've never posted here), though I can't promise I'll post anything in the topic besides that.
This topic is not productive. So far it's amounted to people coming in to comment on the things they don't like about niffweed, which isn't conducive to any kind of effective typing procedure.
Yes, the guy lacks Fe to the extreme and can be very difficult to talk to, but let's just leave him alone.
Why would you ignore intertype relations?Originally Posted by Joy
Gammas have to view money in a particular way?5.) I don't expect anyone to take my word for this, but in talking to him, the way he discusses Se (particularly related to money) is unlike any Gamma I've ever spoken to. His perspective is, on the other hand, quite similar to Alphas I've talked to, particularly LII's.
Exactly. I've had the exact same experience with him. He organizes his thinking into frameworks bound by latent abstract properties which are very easy for me to connect to my own thinking. It's always been very easy to pinpoint and isolate ambiguities in our communication and it doesn't feel like anything "leaks", so to speak.
What I would like to know is why Joy felt so compelled to come out of the woodwork and make this thread lol
I haven't mentioned anything about what I dislike about Niffweed.
In regards to holding back personal opinions on Niffweed, I say no. Niffweed's been quite forward in commenting on what he thinks about other people on a personal level, and has also questioned peoples types on his own initiative, I don't think he should be treated differently to how he behaves with others. It's also reasonable to think that he finds his own behaviour acceptable, and therefore I would be interested to know if he would think adversely about it. It may even be relevant to his type.
Back to topic, I think that his attitudes towards for instance, monetary matters, that Joy mentions, could very well suggest someone who is not gamma, ie - Niffweed. And for that, Joy herself doesn't have to be gamma to understand Gamma's attitudes to this or similar things. Although I do think she is ENTj, her type doesn't have to be relevant to this point at least.
On watching a video he made before, where he talked about something to do with Mr Hue and Mr Cue and all this sort of stuff (basically talking nonesense), I couldn't see IP temperament and seemed static. What he was talking about sounded more so Ti based system than Te, although like I say the subject matter was only nonesense. I've only ever seen him speak nonesense, so it's difficult to say what his type is, for me. But, IJ temperament not IP temperament seemed right from that video.
I find it strange that someone who i've heard it say understands socionics so well has got their type wrong, but, that by no means says it does not happen, for what could be several reasons.
Personally I think niffweed is ILI. He doesn't respond positively to Fe in any form, seems unconcerned with Si, and I can see him as Fi and Se seeking.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I believe discojoe, Diana, aixelsyd and perhaps others including maybe even myself (?) have posted random wikipedia articles in threads.... I'm not convinced that this is an Alpha-only phenomenon.
Umm I'm pretty sure I explicitly said that I enjoy Niffweed.
Yeah its pretty cute.
Ne <3
The end is nigh
You're adding unnecessary layers on complexity.
It's not that I do not think he is in my quadra. As I already said, niffweed's intertype relations should not be considered when typing him or anyone else.
I didn't want it to turn into a topic that's just bitching about niffweed, but I won't ignore his type for the sake of preventing people from treating him the way he treats them. (I would certainly prefer to avoid seeing people gang up on him though. For this reason, I do appreciate that a few people have specifically mentioned things they appreciate about him.)
People are saying stuff like "he doesn't respond well to my this" or "he doesn't respond well to my that". I'd like to know... what DOES he respond well to? (Other than those few who pretty much always agree with and defend him?)
The reason interype relations should not be taken into consideration in his case is because his interpersonal... behavior... is not typical of ANY type. There is no quadra that he gets along with or respects even half of the members of. He offends and/or estranges the majority of the people of every quadra. (He does claim to get along well with most of the people he comes in contact with irl, but we have no way of observing this.)
It's more about not seeing Se (as it relates to money) in a particular way. I believe disdain may be a good word to describe it.
Thank you, this is a good way of explaining it (not that I share your perspective). I'd hazard to guess that most people don't feel this way. I am curious as to Logos's opinion of niffweed's Ti though.
Niffweed is a key member of this community, and his type has never made sense to me. Now it makes perfect sense.
I fear that the general consensus on his ILI typing is so strong that he's even become a sort of a benchmark people use when typing others. It's for the sake of continuity and correct understanding of types/the theory that I've been willing to make a brief appearance.
Wow. I think this is the best post I've seen you make.
I have had serious conversations with though. He's certainly capable of it, though he seems to choose not to do it very often (at least on the forum).
And thanks Carla for being reasonable. Its good to be cautious.
Btw Joy is ESE.
The end is nigh
If my type is of interest, I invite any of you to make a topic about it. I already volunteered to post a bit of a functional breakdown in it. I'd like to focus on niffweed in this topic though.
okay fair enough
The end is nigh
As I wrote earlier in this thread, I believe that Niffweed's ILI. Here's why:
** Although I have only one ILI friend irl--admittedly, it's the type w/ which I have the least experience interacting--Niffweed and my friend Andrew are a lot alike... I'll just list some (what I perceive as) commonalities...
** Very competent themselves, (in their own fields of expertise... Niff in SOcionics; Andrew in investing and music,) they both value competence... They are not show-offs/ones to toot their own horns so to speak... They simply get the job done, and get it done well. They like these qualities in others, and criticize those who are incompetent/competent show-offs...
** They assess people and ideas realistically, and in terms of their practical functionality... E.g. they've both pointed out (correctly) when I've been hypocritical--and directly, without mincing any words (or concern for Fe.)
** look at things big-picture, e.g. in terms of 'the marketplace of ideas,' or other large conceptions like that... opposite alpha NTs in that way...
** Respect for idealism... For ppl who are true, and honest...
Damn I gotta go now... I will finish this later... There are quite a few more commonalities...
.
You could be right. However, my only point so far in relation to what Joy wrote was to do with Niffweed's attitude towards money. I don't think someone has to be correctly typed to be able to read various socionics articles to see how a Gamma typically views finance and related issues. I did ask Joy to elaborate a little more on what she meant, but she said she cannot due to confidentiality, which incidentally, I like.
Maybe Joy could elaborate on her own understanding of how Gamma's, or indeed ILI's view this, in a way without a direct reference to Niff. Then we should be better placed to judge her understanding of it for ourselves.
In regards to the complications of on line interactions, the evidence suggests that Joy and Niffweed have interacted in a mutually productive one on one fashion. I can't easily dismiss what she says at this point. In regards to Joy's understanding of socionics, it seems you are drawing conclusions through working on 'most likelys', which, in this context, could just as easily be 'most unlikelys'. I suppose this could be how a Ti dominant works, that the understanding is built from within ones on possibly subjective interpretation through oneself? Anyway, that's a digression possibly not relevant here.
No, i've only ever seen him post nonesense. He might make intelligent posts here or elsewhere, but the point is, *I* haven't seen them. Nor do I think Niffweed would talk to me, he seems to have an issue with me which I don't wish to go into, but it seems to stem from things which he has not said publically, to my current understanding.Complete garbage. Niffweed is an intelligent individual with plenty of worthwhile things to say if one should ever bother to speak with him in a mature fashion. This claim of yours is nothing but slander.
You're right, I don't know if he's typed himself correctly. For the record, my intuition-in a non-socionic sense, suggests to me he is actually an ILI. However, where is the harm in me looking at the evidence presented impartially in order to reach a decision, or indeed learn something? At the moment my opinion of his type is open, and it may stay open even after any discussion taking place here.You have no proof that he has typed himself incorrectly, and again, his self-typing depends on the parameters which he himself has set in regards to the socionics types and not on yours. Your opinion is most probably irrelevant to him and so it should be.
One doesn't need to necessarily work with personal parameters of type, or indeed one probably shouldn't, when we now have various accumulated knowledge of socionics with which to use to help decipher type. So, Niffweed's opinion of my opinion of his type doesn't therefore necessarily have to matter.. If however, he's basing it on his own parameters, and not that of Jung and Ashura, then it's not socionics he's talking about.
Edit: anyway, do you have an opinion on his type? I don't really at this stage, but I thought it might be an interesting discussion, if it can be kept on track, ha :-)
Thank you for actually expressing your reasoning on a typing. I agree with your observations, but why do you think that's socionics related? Isn't that more of a personality characteristic? I think Niff's particular quirks and personality qualities have more to do with being an enneagram 5, or another factor. I just don't see how, based on the observations of Niffweed you mentioned, that would indicate a Te>Ti preference, Ni>Ne, Fi>Fe, or Se>Si. Could you explain further?
I feel my last post is irrelevant, apart from the edit part; Joy summed it up quite well I think.
Cape ArkonaI haven't. I find it annoying. It's like trying to have a conversation and someone keeps running into the middle of it going, "blah blah blah blah" loudly, and running out, just to disrupt you and keep you from being able to talk. I figure if a person doesn't like the conversation, they can keep their nose out of it, rather than being a pain in the ass to those who are trying to talk.
K, signing out again. Nobody ask me anything else or mention me please. Thanks.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
View of Cape Arkona
Bishop Absalon topples the god Svantevit at Arkona in 1169
Cape Arkona (German: Kap Arkona) is a cape on the island of Rügen in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany. Cape Arkona is the tip of the Wittow peninsula, just a few kilometres north of the Jasmund National Park.
The temple fortress of Arkona, today called Jaromarsburg, was the religious centre of the Slavic Rani in the Early Middle Ages. The temple was dedicated to the deity Svantevit, who was depicted with four heads. The temple housed an important horse oracle in Slavic times, where the behaviour of a white stallion could decide peace or war (horse oracles have a long history in this region, being already attested in the writings of Tacitus).
Today, only about a quarter of the old fortress is left, as the chalk-promontory it was built on is slowly eroded by the Baltic. Rescue excavations are in progress.
In 1168 Arkona was destroyed by Danish invaders (see Absalon). This event preceded the forced Christianization of the region's inhabitants.
There are two old lighthouses at the cape, one constructed in 1827, the other one in 1902. The former is one of the oldest still existing lighthouses of the Baltic Sea. It was constructed by the famous architect Karl Friedrich Schinkel.
In 1927, the cape's name was given to a German liner, the SS Cap Arcona.
Prior to the German reunification, Arkona was often considered the most northern point in the German Democratic Republic. However, the site Gellort is located about one kilometre northwest.
Carla, see what you mean re last paragraph, it was basically a typo, I should have inserted/replaced a word with an 'if' within it. It was just how I was writing it at the time. Anyway, glad we got it clarified.
Edit: other stuff removed as Joy's post disappeared!
This doesn't negate Alpha NT in the slightest.
** look at things big-picture, e.g. in terms of 'the marketplace of ideas,' or other large conceptions like that... opposite alpha NTs in that way...
...
That seems exactly like Alpha NT imo.
What would be the opposite of that?
The end is nigh
yeah (also VI ur bf and Niff if you didn't already for extra fun lol!)
The end is nigh
I've split this thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ead-split.html
I can't ignore the evidence on the thread, and that which I have seen myself from watching a video of Niffweed, that he is a static, IJ (NOT IP on his demonstrations), TiNe type.
In regards to using intertype relations, yeah Niffweed is an unusual case.
However, if I was to choose a forum member who he reminds me of, I would say tcaudlllig. Both can seem kind of radical (in their own ways) and both do not have great relations with many from many quadras, and they have both been willing to speak their minds about people in what I think is a similar fashion.
On the video I saw of Niffweed, I think the following applied, from wiki LII
The LII's theoretical tendencies can often leave him out of touch with reality, and if unchecked may lead to abstract theories that make logical sense but have little bearing on the real world.
And maybe the LII PoLR (in general)
The LII hates being ordered what to do, and chafes especially under orders that don't make sense to him. In such cases the LII is likely to criticize the authority — but if he does he is not subtle about it, and usually ends up being marked as a "rebel" and feeling even more frustrated than he did to begin with.
Well, I don't want to go picking through quotes from a type description, but I think they seem relevant to him (and to tcaudllig who actually to me seems like Niffweed)
I haven't seen anything said here which is really a decent case for ILI, and I don't want to just say he's ILI just because he is (which on thinking about it, it would maybe be something I would have done initially, not really questioned it).
Because the video that I watched of him, have you seen it? I mentioned it earlier on when he is talking about Mr Hue, Mr Chue, Mr Cue and such, was really to me built on a structural theory which was although correct in it's self contained-ness, it was highly abstract with no application to real life.
I don't think a Te type would have bothered to construct such a well thought out system, they see things as dynamic and will change what is happening on the course of things.
I have no problems with someone appearing eccentric, but to me, from what i've wrote, the eccentricness that he personally demonstrates is more along the lines of Ti/Ne, not Ni/Te, in the context of comparison.
Of course others who know Niffweed will maybe put forward their thoughts on it, or him, for my part they are my observations, and that is the reasoning behind it for now.
Haha, fair enough Isha. Niffweed can stand alone, I withdraw my suggestion of a comparison. I see any resemblences now as if anything now superficial between the two of them.
If I'm not mistaken, ILI description on wikisocion was written by niffweed himself. If niffweed really wrote that, and if you want to know niffweed better i think that it's reasonable to read that description.
What INxx type wouldn't those descriptions apply to? In fact, they'd probably apply to ILE's (to a lesser extent), too.
As I said before, his approach to Se related matters in our conversations is like other Alphas (and particularly LII's) I've talked to. Like, I said, "disdain" would probably be the best word for it. There's also a "why would you care about that?" feeling under his responses.
A few things...Yes, any of us can be hostile, rude, sarcastic and passive-aggressive, but the manner in which we do so is not at the price of forgoing too much that one thing that is very important to us which is Fe+Si. Niffweed, on the other hand, demonstrates little regard and little concern for Fe coupled with Si whatsoever. His words and actions are meant to have an effect which is much more in alignment with value for Se+Fi.
1.) People with Se PoLR's can be quite rude and hostile. They just shoot waaaaay over the line when they do it. That's how the PoLR is... difficult to balance. We either avoid it or go overboard with it.
2.) Hostility and rudeness are not directly related to Se, though level of comfort with confrontation is. I've rarely seen him directly confront anyone... and when he does, he definitely goes way overboard. This is far less consistent with the 5th function than it is the 4th one. The 5th is something we're pretty much totally dependent on others for. I've made topics in the past about niffweed's type which addressed this: he is simply not mousy enough to be an ILI.
3.) Fe + Si vs. Fi + Se: When we see people using their weak functions, it's FAR more often a fucked up use of their super ego than it is their super id. That's why we call them conscious functions. If he was ILI, we'd be more likely to see fucked up usage of Si (the role is definitely more likely to be visible than the 5th function!) and Fe (come on, we've all seen xLI's shoot and miss in this area) than Se and Fi. Again, there's no or next to no Se from ILI's.
His use of Fi and Se is definitely "improper". Just because those are two of his most apparent functions definitley does not mean they're valued. Furthermore, he seems genuinely unaware of Fe... it's not that he's painfully aware of it, as xLI's are (and as we all are of our PoLR's), it's that he really just has no concept of it at all. I think that when people are rubbing others the wrong way, even others from their own quadra (as in this case, whatever his quadra is), it's usually because they're focusing too much on their super ego block.
Last edited by Joy; 06-20-2009 at 04:15 PM.
x
Niffweed is an ILI
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
I haven't seen all his videos, i've only seen one and he struck me as very TiNe for reasons i've already elaborated on even in my first and continuing posts. I don't have an opinion on reyn till tuna or on potato spirit.
Can you elaborate on why you think Niffweed demonstrates ego use Te in his posts? (as i've already said, I can only recall seeing him post for the most part spamming related nonesense so your direct experiences could be useful here).In what ways do you not see clear demonstrations of Te in his written posts (compared with the posts of Logos and thehotelambush, for example, which I think are far more demonstrative of internal static, systematic thought processes)? I would say that niffweed's posts contain the better assemblage of Te driven content.
I'm waiting to see those with more experience of him to elaborate on his Se. My experience of Niffweed is this: when I joined socionics workshop, he pm'd me to say that I use ganin related socionics and to keep a lid on that on his forum. I queried what he was referring to and he did not reply. Another experience of Niffweed (my first experience): I pointed out that he would perhaps be unwise to compare SLI's to his dad (which he was doing I think from memory) who he typed as SLI, because within the last 6 months or so, he was pretty sure his dad was LIE. My point was, perhaps he's still not narrowed his dad's type down. This provoked a complete over-reaction, with him making threads telling people not to listen to me and/or somethings along those lines. Basically, his Se is either fully on or off. It's poor in taking in information and processing it correctly to respond correctly. This is consistent with a *PoLR* function, not with a DS unconcious function.Where is the evidence of Se PoLR that you see? It has already been addressed in this thread that niffweed is not afraid to blatantly be rude and hostile to those he thinks of as stupid in a passive-aggressive manner. He does so with no regard for Fe+Si. I am yet to see Logos, thehotelambush, Subterranean, tuturututu and even myself behave in the same manner consistently. Yes, any of us can be hostile, rude, sarcastic and passive-aggressive, but the manner in which we do so is not at the price of forgoing too much that one thing that is very important to us which is Fe+Si. Niffweed, on the other hand, demonstrates little regard and little concern for Fe coupled with Si whatsoever. His words and actions are meant to have an effect which is much more in alignment with value for Se+Fi.
ILI's do not have good access to their Se. The DS function the weakest of all the functions for all types. The PoLR is concious but clumsy.
However. I do not have as good an access to interactions with Niffweed as perhaps you have. I would really like it if you would put some information down of your own to support ILI. That is why Joy's and others input is useful to help people and myself assess the evidence.
Also, I think it's worth pointing out that people can be so unaware of their dual seeking function that they show no appreciation or awareness of it either way (this can change when we know what we're looking for, or have managed to build up some experience receiving it). If as you say/elude to, Niffweed shows no use of Fe, then it can't be a weak but still concious function if it's the case, because by socionics,that simply does not make sense.
I don't have an opinion on his enneagram type, but would prefer to look at his socionics type. It could however equally be said that you are seeing similarities in him to other ILI's due to a possible shared enneagram type 5, so from that pov it's not too useful, it's also not socionics.Also remember that he is an Enneagram 5 and an NT and will naturally share similarities with other Enneagram 5 NTs on this forum.
All right, one thing I do want to mention is niffweed's poor use of Fi in evaluating people.
I can remember one time where he was defending this nasty, vile thing that Ashton, a psychopath, said to Joy. He was defending it in the way that someone focusing on the Fe aspect of it would defend it, making a kind of hackneyed, take-it-at-face-value defense of "Oh, he didn't really mean it that way", rather than seeing the underlying venom and malice that are trademarks of 90% of the things that Ashton ever says.
And then - quite comically - he took some highly superficial comments made by me regarding enjoying flame wars "just for the sake of it" and about exploiting your enemy's weaknesses to hurt them, and decided that my moral system is "disturbing".
The gist of what I'm saying is that he takes a person's words at face value when ethically evaluating them, without seeing under the hood, so to speak, in order to understand what they really mean by those words.
To those typing him LII:
What do you say to Niffweed's response to Fe..? (i.e. his lack of appreciation for it.)
In my experience, LIIs eat up Fe... Niffweed, on the other hand--like the other ILI and SLIs I know--treats it as foreign... and unwelcome... almost as a nuisance.
And Niff's Ni..? His exhaustive lists of forum members, and comparisons of their traits... (Not systemic, Ti comparisons, btw, but 'savoir-faire' Te comparisons...)
I know my semi-dual ... and although I don't have much experience with ILIs, I know my supervisee ...
Niffweed would caution me against being 100% sure of anything... And he's right, I'm not 100% sure of this... but I' reasonably confident that he's not my semi-dual, and he is ILI.
(BTW, I'm finding that lots of the personality conflicts re: supervision can be avoided if I tone down my expression of the leading function.)
From a previous post:
His structured lists are Ti, btw... this applies whether he's LII, ILI, or any other type. (Ni is not static. It is not rational. And Te is not about structures.)
To clarify what I said earlier: I'm not saying he's Fe > Fi. Only that his Fi-based conclusions are often misguided and based on trivial observations.
i wonder how someone who had strong and ego(which niffweed rather obviously does not have) would evaluate you.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Another creepy, passive-aggressive post by implied.i wonder how someone who had strong and ego
nice way to dodge the issue. i'm actually curious as to how
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
More passive-aggressive nonsense. Fuck you.nice way to dodge the issue. i'm actually curious as to how
Yeah, deflection is the best way to deal with people in a manner conducive to finding an appropriate solution to a disagreement. Discussing things rationally is for people who don't have uncanny insight into people's motivations.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
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