School of Associative Socionics: "Butterfly" model of a human psyche

[Olga]

I started to translate my artical. I will be posting translations here bit by bit. If something will not make any sense, please, let me know:

1. (10/06/09)

“The timid flying of butterflies - is not disorderly, unguided wandering in air, but result of the totality of the set of aerodynamic mechanisms… if for engineers sometimes succeeds in understanding, how these mechanisms work, then will occur revolution in the aeronautics”.

“Association, in psychology - connection, which appears under specific conditions between two or more mental formations (sensations, perceptions, ideas the like); the basic concept of associative psychology… Term is introduced by J. Lock. (1698)”








Introduction

Associative model reflects the dynamics of psychic energy: obvious and hidden motions of human soul, which accompany the information metabolism and are expressed in the general energy of organism, in the temperament, in the mood changes, in the subjective preferences and the mental states.The term “psychic energy” means “a special form of reality of the universe… The energy, about which into one voice talked the healers of all times and nations, which they consciously used, helping their patients, which, until now is not recognized by the academicians and professors only because psychic energy is not possible to touch or register by any kind of instrument, if the individual can not perceive it himself. It is possible tough on the subjective level to develop the capability for perception of this energy and its generations, and only in the personal experience to be convinced of existence of this reality “ In the academic circles the term of psycho-energy is used as regards to the “information- energy field of a living organism” for explaining the number of the parapsychic phenomena of human psyche (3). It is possible to say that by psychic energy is implied in the science the certain interrelation of information and energy in the psyche of man. And this is not by chance.The energy in ezoteriks is also considered in the natural connection with the information. Thus, for instance, “the study of Living Ethics asserts that the human organism in accordance with its physiological and psychological state is capable to emit outside and to receive from the environment the information- energy flows of special kind, which carry information and transmitting power “influences” to another person or to the surrounding objects”. From the socionics’ perspective each person possesses one of sixteen types of information metabolism. If we consider information and energy as something mutually-connected and one-piece, then it is possible to assume that man is also a carrier and the spokesman of psychic energy of the specific type.
The question is: what types of psychic energy (TPE) of man are considered the associative model?
The model “Butterfly” refers to the dynamic structure of psyche on the basis of the compensation between the qualitatively different types of psychic energy, which are associated with four components of the structure of the personality: with the blocks Ego, Id, Superego, Superid. In order to understand what is understood under the names of blocks, let us be turned to the theories of the personality of S. Freud and C. Young. Let us examine first the blocks Ego, Id, and Superego, which are the components of the structure of personality in S. Freud's theory.

[Olga]

(Intrduction - continue)

Id it is the instinctive part of the personality, which is responsible for the satisfaction of the physical needs of body, such as saturation of the organism by food, the need for the heat and the satisfaction of sexual desires. Id is guided by the principle of enjoyment. The purpose of Id is on one hand to remove the stress, that appears from the desire and on the other hand to reach its immediate satisfaction. In this part of the personality reigns chaos of the passions: there is no logical thinking or the realization of time. Impulses free enormous energy resources, which supply with energy an entire structure of personality. Freud compared Id with the spoiled selfish child, who requires the satisfaction of his desires “here and now”.
The energy of Id is slowly transformed into the energy of Ego under the external influences by means of the realization of the surrounding reality and the necessity to comply with the social norms. To say in other words: Id gives birth to Ego. Ego achieves the rational control for all parts of the personality. It is guided by the principle of reality.
Ego allows the person to distinguish between what is desired and what is possible, subjective from the objective and so on. This part of the personality is not preoccupied with the moral side of things, but pays attention to consequences for the person him/herself. Ego searches for the right moment to satisfy the desires of Id, taking into account possible reactions of other people. Therefore, Ego is compared with the rational judge, who makes plans and decisions about the actions.
Superego is responsible for the moral development of personality. It consists of the two parts: 1. Conscience, which punishes Ego for the poor behaviour by the feeling of guilt; 2. Ego - Ideal, that promises rewards for the good behaviour by feeling of self-pride and self-appraisal. Special role in the development of moral standards and in the formation of cultural values belongs to parents. Freud believed that the internal conflict is inevitable and is natural for any personality (to the different degree), because Ego has to satisfy contradictory needs of Id and Superego. Psychoanalytical theory is often referred to his theory as to the theory of instincts, because the development of personality is considered to be a a part of sexual development and namely the development of sexual instinct (libido). Freud insists that childhood is of a great importance for the development of personality, this is a critical age, because at this time the psychological profile of a person is embedded. The personal experiences associated with the development of sexual instinct is suppressed and is pushed out of the consciousness into the deeper levels of personality forming the individual unconscious (IU).
C.Young, on the contrary did not attach critical value to the development of sexual instinct at the childhood, suggesting that the heredity in many respects defines the ways in which an individual will react to the life situations and what life experiences the person will go through. Young attached special importance to the experience of the previous generations, unconsciously transferred from generation to generation in the form of internal potential, templates of behaviour, in the form of innate mental structures - archetypes. Archetypes form the content of collective unconscious (CU) and are expressed “in the patters and the motives, which are the basis of the general human symbolism of dreams, myths, fairy tales “. (6) For example, the fear of darkness, spiders and snakes can be attributed to the instinctive templates of behaviour. It is much easier for us to develop those fears and phobias, which possessed our ancestors. Unconscious fears, which we sometimes cannot explain, rise from the negative experience of our predecessors and they are the natural part of our heredity and our uncoscious (5).
Collective unconscious contains four basic archetypes: the persona (mask), anima/animus, the shadow and the self. The semantic content of the archetype “the shadow” in many respects determines the meaning of the block Superid in the theory of the “Butterfly” model.
“The shadow” is the source of creativity and simultaneously has got a potential and a tendency towards destruction. This mental structure is inherited from those lifetimes of humanity, when all concerns were reduced to the instincts of survival and continuation of the mankind. It is considered to be a “dark part” of personality, since it includes the potential of destruction. Just as Id, this component of the personality is amoral and does not distinguish good from evil. The Shadow acts on the basis of the animals’ instincts, which are capable both of the self-sacrifice for their posterity and of the coldblooded killing of other creatures, similar to themselves. The innocence of this behaviour is in the fact that animals act upon their instincts and do not possess the freedom of personal choice. (7).
It is pretty obvious from the description of blocks that Ego and Superego can be easily considered as rational and conscious parts of personality and Id and the Superid as irrational, instinctive, unconscious parts of personality. The division of blocks in this model is on the basis of a dichotomies rationality – irrationality and mentality - vitality (conscious- unconscious) coincides with the division of blocks in the model A (model of Aushra).(8).

Names and meanings of the blocks of psychic energy in this model are borrowed from the psychoanalytic theories of the personality of S. Freud, C.Young and from the theory of socionics of A. Augustivenchute. The concept of S. Freud about the dynamic relations between the components of the personality structure is central to the meaning of this theory. “Butterfly” model describes psychodynamics from the perspective of associative socionics. The conflict is a sign of the disbalance of psychic energies within the personality structure can be internal or external and is inevitable according to Freud's theory, since Id and Superego incline Ego to the contradictory solutions.
If pressure on Ego comes from the outside world (for example, the external threat of life), then the person experiences an “external” conflict. If pressure occurs from Id, then internal neurotic conflict can arise. In the case of pressure from Superego the person experiences internal moral conflict. The Ego is simultaneously a judge and a manager, which evaluates the disputing interests of Id and Superego as well as the existing possibilities in the immediate environment and takes decisions. Therefore, Ego is responsible for the retention of psychological balance and for the reaching a compromise in order to satisfy the needs of all conflicting parties (5).
In contrast to the Freud's theory, the associative theory does not consider the conflict between the components of the personality structure as unavoidably leading to the mental deviations. On the contrary, conflict is considered as an active and important “ingredient” of the dialectics of a human soul and a natural part of the personality development. This view on the conflict does not contradict Freud's ideas, who considered any behavior as a compromise one way or the other (5). According to the Butterfly model, a compromise of energy and information within the psyche of a person is reached via the dynamics of a compensatory nature between the different types of psychic energy, namely between the blocks Ego, Seperego, Id and Superid.

[Jarno]

The summarization of Freuds' Ego Id and Superego is really good. The rest is a bit to short to say something about. What kind of sources have you used?

[Olga]

The summarization of Freuds' Ego Id and Superego is really good. The rest is a bit to short to say something about. What kind of sources have you used?

Thanks for comments. I will try to finish the translation first in the next few days and will translate and give references to the sources. Then I will answer all questions. Sometime people see only the connection of my theory with esoterics but I see the base in psychoanalysis. I see the vast possibility for socionics to develop in this direction. Esoterics is also possible as well as all sorts of alternative therapies.

[Olga]

Structure of model and the theory of the colour

When we refer to the notion of a balanced personality we mean a harmony between the opposites such as mind and heart, the soul and body. On the basis of the unity of the opposites within the personality, the author allowed herself to associate the meaning of blocks of psychic energy (BPE) with the socionics’ functions, and those in turn with the colour of chakras. (9). As a result, the sixteen personality types were divided with the reference to the four types of psychic energy (PE) into four groups:

1.Ego-types – rational extraverts. Extraverted functions: Fe (red) and Te (orange).
2. Id-types - irrational extraverts . Extraverted functions:Se (yellow) and Ne (green).
3. Superid-types –irrational introverts. Introverted functions: Ni (blue) and Si (dark-blue).
4. Superego-types - rationalintroverts. Introverted functions: Ti (violet) and Fi (light purple/pink).
The association of blocks or aspects with the colours is not something new for the theory of socionics. Gulenko (1996) in the article “The possibilities of expression of mental states. The person and the world by the language of universalities” pointed to the similarity between the communicative aspects of his theory and the 4 types of behaviour in the colour typology of M. Lusher (10):
1. “red” type (excitation, motion, activity) - state F,
2. “yellow” type (freedom, change, disclosure, bloom) - state E,
3. “green” type (hardness, sluggishness, self-controll) - state L,
4. “dark-blue” type (rest, relaxation, contentment) - state T.
The colour association proposed in the model, suggests a link between eight socionics’ functions with the specific colours. In contrast to the theory of M. Lusher (11), the colours do not indicate the current psychological profile as such, but the subjective preferences, which refer to the deeper states of psyche and are related to the socionics’ dichotomies. Warm colour range, which possesses greater power of extraversion (red, orange – Ego block; yellow and green – Id block), is opposite to the cold colour range of introversion with much less power (pink/ light purple, violet, white – Superego; block and blue, dark-blue, black – Superid block).

The proposed in the model ssociation of colour suggests a link between eight socionics’ functions with the specific colours. In contrast to the theory of M. Lusher (11), the colours do not indicate the current psychological profile as such, but the subjective preferences, which refer to the deeper states of psyche and are related to the socionics’ dichotomies. Warm colour range, which possesses greater power of extraversion (red, orange – Ego block; yellow and green – Id block), is opposite to the cold colour range of introversion with much less power (pink/ light purple, violet, white – Superego; block and blue, dark-blue, black – Superid block).
“Rational” colour range of blocks Ego and Superego is opposed to the “irrational” colour range of the blocks of Id and Superid on the basis of the presence or absence of the nuances of red colour. Red colour is associated with the power of emotions (Fe), where the emotions are considered as one of the instruments of kontroll over the socion.
“Static” colour range of the blocks of Id (yellow, green) and Superego (white, pink, violet) does not possess sharp colour contrast. The absence of the of sharp contrast in combination of colours refers to the element of stability and characterizes mental state as predominantly static. On the contrary, the combination of bright warm and dark cold colours, for example, of red and dark-blue indicates the quick and sharp changes of psychological states, which refer to the dynamic element in the structure of the personality: Ego (red/raspberry, orange) and Superid (blue, dark-blue, black).

[Olga]

About chakras and functions

“Special importance in the theory of colour is given to the association of functions with the energy system of chakras, where the colours of chakras are in agreement with the colors of rainbow. Chakra is the vortex of thin energies with the different vibrations. It is known that there are many chakras in the body of a human organism. Seven chakras establish the main energy centers of Sahasrara, or Crown, Chakra (violet), Ajna, or Third Eye, Chakra (dark-blue), Visuddha, or Throat, Chakra (blue), Anahata, or Heart, Chakra (green/pink), Manipura, or Solar Plexus, Chakra (yellow), Svadhisthana, or Sacral, Chakra (orange) and Muladhara, or Root, Chakra (red).

These chakras are most important for the functioning of an organism. The main chakras pull “fine” energies from the environment by means of their vortices and produce all necessary for our functioning fine energies. In a similar way our organism selects and absorbs from the sunlight those spectral colours, which are necessary for the body functioning. Light is the radiant energy, which is transmitted in the form of waves. Colours have diverse wavelength: violet colour has a wavelength from 4000 to 4500, dark-blue from 4500 to 4700 and so forth (12).
If we shall draw a parallel with the information metabolism in socionics, then it is possible to say that the energy system of chakras could be considered as metabolism of fine ( psychic) energies, in which special role plays the heart chakre. Anahata is located directly in the middle between three lowest and three highest energy centers. The functioning of Anahata is associated with the functioning of the block Ego in the model A, because this block is responsible for making a compromise and for the retention of balance of the mental structure:
“Heart chakra is the place, where the personal and collective aspects of your internal of " I" are encountered … Three lowest chakras Manipura, Svadhisthana and Muladhara operate with the personal energy and separate you from others. Three highest chakras (Sahasrara, Ajna, Visuddha) are the collective aspects of " I" , that amplify connection with the universal energy. After waking up heart, you will be able to connect life personal and life spiritual. You will become a unified whole. Heart is a connecting thread between ego and spirit. You will be able to feel simultaneously the vitality of lowest, physical chakras and the bliss and inspiration of the high order chakras. Integral heart chakra is balanced both horizontally and vertically. This is the real center of your "I" , the place, where lives your soul “.

[Olga]

The summarization of Freuds' Ego Id and Superego is really good. The rest is a bit to short to say something about. What kind of sources have you used?

Jarno, I used the sources from a couple of books and interenet. Mainly the study book by Gross, the one I studied psychology at the college. Very clear cut and reasonably short explanation.

[Olga]

I wonder, if there will be any suggestions on the artical? Is it possible to improve it somehow for the publishers? Has anybody got experience with English- speaking publishers and can give an advice or the reference to the website where I could try to publish it online or in a magazine?

[ragnar]

Is it possible to improve it somehow for the publishers?

Yes. I've already submitted my two cents. Also, it needs the attention of an English major. Yew mey oant two pud id threw ey sbell-czecker pherst yawrsehf, thou.

[ragnar]

I lost interest when I saw the word "chakra". Skimming through again I saw terms like "esoterics" and others that I associate with anything but science.

Guess I'll stay far away from this butterfly.

Appreciate your translation efforts, though.

[Olga]

The BM about the development of personality

According to BM, the personality has the following stages of development, which can be associated with the development stages of a butterfly:

1. The egg of butterfly is associated with the development of a baby in the womb of mother and with the block Superid. Psychological types, whose program functions are the same as the function of this block (Si+Ni), will especially value individual comfort and protection from the external influences.

2. Caterpillar is associated with the period of the rapid development of child and the block Id (Se+Ne).

3. Pupa symbolizes the transition period: the end of the childhood and the beginning of teenage period, which is linked to teenage crisis and stepping into young adulthood. The transformation of a child into the adult is related to block Ego ( Fe+Te).

4. Butterfly is associated with the productivity, self-realisation, self-confidence wisdom and stability of mature adulthood: block Superego (Fi+Ti).

5. Old age is linked to the weakening of vital processes, withdrawal from the active life and the responsibility, by growing dependence from others and by block Superid (Si+Ni). This is the stage of preparation for the afterlife.

6. Death and the Judgement day. Devil has got right to take away the soul into the reign of shadows.

It is possible to assume that culpable soul finishes its development at this stage. If a soul is forgiven – it continues the development and the seventh stage begins in the afterlife. May be, it t is not by chance that Muslims have the sacred ritual of walking around of Kaaba 7 times counterclockwise. The building of Kaaba is covered with black silk and resembles the form of a socionics’ symbol of extraverted logic (25). The description of the development of personality in time suggests that the changes will occur both at the level of material body(quantitative and qualitative changes) and at the level of consciousness. That is why we shall additionally examine the differences between the forms of consciousness.

[Olga]

I lost interest when I saw the word "chakra". Skimming through again I saw terms like "esoterics" and others that I associate with anything but science.

Guess I'll stay far away from this butterfly.

Appreciate your translation efforts, though.

Thank you for reading, anyway. Whatever comes from any one person, it comes with a flavour of subjectivity. I could post it without reference to chackras but then why should I? It is my concept, so let it be. I consider it as a piece of art, where philosophy is mixed with psychoanalysis and esoterics. The human psyche is a piece of art too. The language of science does not reflect on the complexity of a soul to the extent as the art does.
It is more about unic self-expression.

[Olga]

By analogy with the socionics’ theory, the BM connects judgment with the rationality and the consciousness, and perception - with the irrationality and sub/unconsciousness. According to BM and in accordance with other theories, for example, the Freudian theory, conscious functions stem from unconscious functions. It is also possible to assume that conscious functions return from the consciousness to subconsciousness and conclude their way in the unconsciousness as in the bank of the storage information, where it is transformed and is delivered back into the consciousness in a new form when it is needed. Together with the concepts of collective and individual unconscious as proposed by Young (7) there are introduced the new concepts of the collective and individual consciousness, which are the mutually complementing forms of consciousness. Changes in the consciousness can be examined at two levels: at the given moment and in time. The mechanisms of a change in the consciousness at two levels, probably, the same. The difference must be in the results of these processes. Changes of the consciousness at the specific moment do not usually leave a deep track and have a temporary nature. The repetition of the processes occurring in time can lead to the more stable changes in the consciousness both: positive and negative.

Collective conscious (CC) is our collective knowledge, which is the experience of generations preserved in the books, traditions, culture, legislation and so forth. Obviously CC is in the process of a constant renovation.
Collective unconscious (CU) is our inheritance from the previous generations, which left track in our psyche in the form of images and ideas tgeneral for the entire humanity (7).
Individual conscious (IC) relates to the self -realization as the subject, separate from all the objects. Which entails the awareness of the individual flow of consciousness and self-perception as a rational human being, capable of reflecting the surrounding reality in symbols, mental and sensory images.
Individual unconscious (IU) corresponds to the retention of our personal experiences and knowledge, which were forgotten, ejected by consciousness into unconscious mind or they did not have a sufficient energy to reach consciousness and therefore remain perceived, but not registered (7).
The BM has got a shape of a Butterfly. The horizontal channels of BM connect the functions which are opposite to each other on the dichotomy of extraversion-introversion. The left side of BM belongs to the mental block (conscious) and the right side - to the vital block (unconscious).
In the two top channels are the functions of block Ego (on the left) and the functions of the block Id (on the right). According to model A these blocks are the strongest in the structure of a psyche. In the BM the information enters the program function (Ti) from the controlling function (Te) from the direction of the block Id. Ti-Te opposition is independent (not a contact one), it corresponds to internal perception and collection of information from the external world. Motion of information in a direction towards itself or inwardly. It is possible to assume that Te as an informational aspect activates and attracts attention of the program function Ti at the level of perception – subconscious level. This process is automatic, it does not require special efforts. From the Te to Ti information is transferred further to the channel of the opposition Ne--Ni. This functional opposition is active, dependent (a contact one) and to the larger degree conscious. The second, creative channel Ne-Ni processes and delivers information into the external world (direction from the subject to the object). The produced information is directed, first of all, toward an active change in the outside world.

[Olga]

At the bottom channels of the BM are the blocks Superego (on the left) and Superid (on the right), which play complementary role in the information metabolism. Information in these channels moves from the suggestive function (Fe) to the role function Fi. This opposition is active, dependent and to the large degree conscious. This functional channel actively collects information from the outside world (external collection) which is transferred then to the opposition Se -Si. The direction of the information flow towards the internalworld of the individual. Opposition Se-Si is independent and less conscious. The so called “third” channel processes and issues information to the inner, deeper level of the psyche. As a result of this process an individual consciousness is developed, the new experience and the knowledge is gathered, which means a lot for the individual him/herself (internal production of information).This is the information flow towards him/herself.

It is possible to examine a gradual change in the consciousness in the light of the gradual development of personalityin the BM. The development of a baby starts before birth and is correlated with the TPE Superid. It is possible to suggest that at this time begins the process of the formation of collective unconscious (CU), which will determine in many respects unconscious tendencies and preferences of a future person. With the birth the subconscious TPE Id comes to power, which is governed by the principle of pleasure. In the period of the domination of TPE Id the individual consciousness is formed in the structure of personality by means of the active interaction with the environment. Child learns to separate himself as a subject from surrounding objects.

The next development stage of consciousness is associated with the rapid development of the TPE Ego. This period begins in the adolescence and slows down when the person approaches the mature adulthood. This period is characterised by the active gathering of collective consciousness CC and the simultaneous production of individual consciousness IC. This means that the person simultaneously studies and changes his environment in accordance with his perception of reality. This is an active and productive period in the life of a person.

The Superego stage is associated with the phase of maturity and wisdom. By this time the person gathers a large individual experience (IC) and possesses a sufficient knowledge about the world around him/her. (CC). At the Superego stage begins the deeper search for the meaning of human existence, the purpose of life.
The personal values are reviewed as if the person realises that if he wishes to change something in his life he has a chance to do it now as it may be not possible to do it at a later stage. The desire to change the personal situation radically may appear very realistic. The person may start to pay an extra attention to the satisfaction of his/her spiritual needs. Changes can be on a surface or they may be deep in nature and include changes in career, in a place of residence, in a family status and etc. The search for the true Self and the realization of former mistakes contributes to the spiritual correction at the later stage in life.
Knowledge about spiritual improvement is the sacral knowledge, which is transferred from generation to generation in the form of spiritual customs. As a result of these processes at the Superego stage is formed individual unconscious (IU) as a philosophical position, which the person trusts and follows.

[Olga]

There should be the shape of a butterfly.

Ti………...I………….Te

Ne…….I….….Ni

Se...I....Si

Fi.........I........Fe

[Olga]

Superid energy is linked to the old age, when the person becomes more and more dependent on the others for the life maintenance. During this period the partial loss of individual and collective consciousness may happen. This is a natural preparation for further transformation of consciousness after death.

The loss of physical body does not mean however the total loss of consciousness or the individual psychic energy. Together with the concept of the human organism as a dynamic system, which develops in accordance with the laws of physics and chemistry,S. Freud also used the law of energy conservation as the theoretical base for his psychoanalytical theory (5). The energy as mass cannot be destroyed according to this law, but it is only transformed: “The law of conservation of energy – the fundamental law of nature- states the fact that energy of the closed system remains in time. In other words, energy cannot arise from anything and can disappearnowhere, it can only pass from one form to another.” (26)

Conclusion
Butterfly model lays foundation for the development of associative socionics and integration of socionics’ theory into psychoanalytical psychology as well as
alternative therapies. It is possible with the help of associative method used in the model to gain a deeper insight into the subjective world of an individual and to realize that the world of subjective preferences and motives is not so chaoticor accidential in nature as at may seem at the first glance.
The saying like this one “to the taste and the colour - there is no comrade” reflects more the past but not the future of socionics. Model indicates to the deeper link between the human being and nature at the level of energy-information metabolism, to the universal connection. The subjective preferences of people in colour, music, art etc., reflect the objective laws governing the development of their subjective world. The inner motives are the product of their individual psychodynamics, which can be examined from the perspective of associative socionics in more detail in a future.

Only the references are left to post. If you have any questions, critics, commets - wellcome!

[Krig the Viking]

I tried to read all this, Olga, but I'm afraid I found it rather difficult to understand. Are you saying that in this model the Information Elements are essentially fused with the Functions, so that, for example, Se and Ne are always in the Id Block, for every type? Or am I misunderstanding?

[Olga]

I appreciate your effort a lot. I find it difficult to read some Ti -theories. But I am sure that on the level of everyday langauge we can understand each other better if not fully.

Yes, you understood right. This is a general model, which has got the same structure like DCNH system. If we would be creators of all the 16 types we would take first of all two elements (or may be even one) and made of them 4 and then 8 and so on. If we shall compare it with colours, we would have firstly white and black. Then through the white colour we could get the rainbow of colours. Make them darker or lighter and you have got all the colours and shades.
In socionics we start from basic (in my view) dichotomies rational-irrational, extro-intro, statics - dynamics and this is how we come to my model and DCNH.
Is that ok or not ok?

[Waddlesworth]

open mind

Receptive to new and different ideas or the opinions of others.

closed mind

A closed mind (or closed-minded) is someone unreceptive to new ideas or information.

Cognitive Prejudice refers to what people believe to be true: for example, in adherence to a particular metaphysical or methodological philosophy at the expense of other philosophies which may offer a more complete theoretical explanation.

I agree. Being skeptical, from my own experiences, is just based on a fear of 'looking stupid' or something similar. Skeptics anticipate being right and are rarely convinced otherwise. Many, if not most skeptics are frauds(though they will call YOU the fraud!). Just because someone speaks in scientific sounding terms and says they have a scientific idea, doesn't mean much other than that the word 'scientific' is less likely to make the speaker feel stupid.

on the flipside, many people use esoteric sounding terms(like the many people who use 'scientific' terms) but do not know what the heck they are talking about.

It is funny that people who 'practice' socionics would talk about the necessity of things being proven scientifically.

[Olga]

Dear friends,
the translated article about the Information&Energy model (IEM) "Butterfly" is here:

http://www.socionics4you.com/index.p...theory/archive

It is possible to leave the comment on the website. If you wish to discuss the article, please, feel free to do so.
I will add pictures to the text meanwhile.

The article was edited. However I would like to get the feedback from you in relation to the sound of the language. If you notice any mistakes or wish to suggest a correction, please, let me know. Many thanks!

BTW, on the forum you can receive a free consultancy in socionics and psychology (in English &Russian):

http://www.socionics4you.com/index.p...rum/14--/284--

[Korpsy Knievel]

Sociotheosophy, herp derp. You cue Yanni, I'll get the bongo drums and crystals.

[strangeling]

Sociotheosophy, herp derp. You cue Yanni, I'll get the bongo drums and crystals.

Someone get the bong.

[Absurd]

I don't think I am ablr to write or speak Russian now.

[Olga]

I don't think I am ablr to write or speak Russian now.

No need to speak or write Russian. I understand and write English.

[Absurd]

No need to speak or write Russian. I understand and write English.

I know. Thought it is some kind of Russian site only.

[Olga]

I know. Thought it is some kind of Russian site only.

I need to translate the information from Russian to English and I do not like doing that. That is why there is not much there to read yet.

[tcaudilllg]

Ah, chakras... the kiss of death for any avenue of qualitative research.

[Olga]

Ah, chakras... the kiss of death for any avenue of qualitative research.

Chackras - the most shocking and critical point in the theory? Ok, not to worry about chakras. Theory is not about them, but about physilogyand type and connection to colour and music preferences! Chakras is the attempt of seeing the picture as a whole - how the new concept could relate to the old ones.

The article is not about a scientific research or statistics but about the subjective concept on objective matters: how physiology and type fit in what is known about psychic energy. See it as as lyrics of the artivle if you wish - I do not have problem with it.

I write often about God in my posts but you do not have to believe it. However, I have got right to express my subjective views and values in what I write. All theories are subjective to a certain degree as they come from a subject and not an object. What is really important that the reader sees in the aritcle the forest behind the bushes.

Anyway, I am glad that the English language in the article seems to be OK and you understand the concept. Thanks for reading. I agree that the part about chacras could be a bit boring.

[tcaudilllg]

Olga you are a licensed psychologist, yes? Then you make your peers look bad with your color theory crap... and yes, the color theory is just as bad as the chakras because it can't be proven. What is your motivation anyway, to be some kind of sorceress, or to think of yourself as such?

[Olga]

Olga you are a licensed psychologist, yes? Then you make your peers look bad with your color theory crap... and yes, the color theory is just as bad as the chakras because it can't be proven. What is your motivation anyway, to be some kind of sorceress, or to think of yourself as such?

I am sure you know some psychologists or psychoanalysts who wrote about psychic energy and colors. No need to look so narrow at the concept of color theory.
And yes it can be proven, why not? We have tests which are some partly and some fully based on color preferences and not just colors. We plan to do the tests for art, music and photo preferences. Help is wellcome for the tecnical part and translartion first of all.
.
What creative work have you done in socionics BTW?
Are you an author?

[tcaudilllg]

I am sure you know some psychologists or psychoanalysts who wrote about psychic energy and colors. No need to look so narrow at the concept of color theory.
And yes it can be proven, why not? We have tests which are some partly and some fully based on color preferences and not just colors. We plan to do the tests for art, music and photo preferences. Help is wellcome for the tecnical part and translartion first of all.
.
What creative work have you done in socionics BTW?
Are you an author?

What is that supposed to mean?

You realize you're about to get laughed off the forum (and out of the community) I take it?

[InvisibleJim]

What is that supposed to mean?

Jung spent many years in formal research looking into ESP and psychic energy in an attempt to explain how people tend to be more right than wrong without any psychological or intellectual explanation.

[Olga]

What is that supposed to mean?

You realize you're about to get laughed off the forum (and out of the community) I take it?

I could have written exactly what you wrote me now after this:

Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

"Olga you are a licensed psychologist, yes? Then you make your peers look bad with your color theory crap... and yes, the color theory is just as bad as the chakras because it can't be proven. What is your motivation anyway, to be some kind of sorceress, or to think of yourself as such?"

This is what I call shit storming and not brain storming. Tcaud, you are boring.....

[Creepy-pokeball]

What is that supposed to mean?

You realize you're about to get laughed off the forum (and out of the community) I take it?

Olga has always had a place here, and I have no problem defending that place.

[Gravolez]

Color preferences would not prove anything because the model sucks.

[Olga]

Color preferences would not prove anything because the model sucks.

This is the traditional view on individual preferences and we are about to change it for now and ever. Our choices and preferences are not that accidential as they seem to be and do correlate with our physiology of course.

For example, types and duality. People search for the compensation independinently of the theory of socionics compatibility. Theory is good for explaining this phenomenon. And once we have a rational expalnation we can intervene and control the situation even better than before. Now we about to answer the question why we prefer different music and colours and different styles and designs.?..what mechanisms and rational is behind all that? Is anything similar between the people who prefer the same or very similar music and colors?

"The model sucks" is not an argument but just a subjective evaluation without any reasonable explanation- another shit storming (SS). SS happens usually because of luck of the logical brainactivity or wider knowledge about the subject. May be, also laziness to explain the point of view is the reason and disrespect to the opponent.

"The model sucks" is nothing on the informational level except showing how "you as a subject relate to the object". Obviously there will be people who likes or dislikes the concept - no doubt about that. BUT...it is not what is valued in the discussion, really. Valued are logical arguments which can show how much thought, sense and truth is behind the statement: TI + NE

[psychosis]

i don't agree with the spiritual/developmental stuff, but the concept of correlating colors/frequencies with psych functions seems like it probably has merit. is there more background on that or are these just postulates?

[Olga]

i don't agree with the spiritual/developmental stuff, but the concept of correlating colors/frequencies with psych functions seems like it probably has merit. is there more background on that or are these just postulates?

Hi Justin, what background? do you mean research? We have not done experiments as such but our tests work similar to the other tests and results are similar. I always ask for the results of other socionics tests.
We have a lot of data wich proves the correlation between the choice of colors/color combinations with the the TPE - group and types. Obviously more correlation exists between the choice of color and TPE group rather than type. The type level is more detailed. Tests at the moment do not aime to prove the type of the person by color preference but only the TPE group and TPE oppostion, which is tha basis for type and subtype.

We are thinking about the color-music tests wich will differentiate between the types as well and not just TPE dynamics. It is all possible.

The core of the concept is that color preferences correlate with the physilogy on the level of stable features like type& temperament rather than in the concept of Max Lusher - as a psychophysilogical profile in realtion to normality - abnormality. I argue the point that color-music and similar preferences are not about normalty and abnormality in a first place but about personality differences of all normal people. It is about typology.
As we know that the experiment ( only one) about the correlation of Lusher test and Eysenck Personality Test did not find the correaltion significant. It could be the reason why not.

[Gravolez]

By "The model sucks" I mean: the model sucks so much that there is absolutely no worth in even trying to explain how I reached that conclusion and why esoteric bullshit sucks. I don't really care about giving you arguments because if you believe in esoteric bullshit no reasonable arguments would work to stray you from your beliefs.
Otherwise there might be or there might not be a correlation between color preference and type but it wouldn't mean a thing if you are going to explain it with chakras.
As far as musical preferences go I have noticed correlation between type and musical preferences but it is far from definitive and there is a much more noticeable correlation between what art people create and their type rather than what art people like and their type.
Aesthetic preferences within people of the same type can vary greatly, although there is a preference for certain themes or attitude.

[Creepy-Snaps]

I like turdles.