As a rule, if you can't use a method properly and concretely, then it's not a very good method. I'd like to see you supplement your typings with some meat so you can help make more productive discussions.Originally Posted by Steve
As a rule, if you can't use a method properly and concretely, then it's not a very good method. I'd like to see you supplement your typings with some meat so you can help make more productive discussions.
Give me a video and/or written content about a certain subject matter, then sure. It's much easier to point out functions in semantically communicative content from the person.
Visual impressions are non verbal and holistic...right brained, and are much harder to break down.
In that case, people should make it clear that they're VI-ing based on a guess. Maybe not build entire methodologies around the practice? There's also no need to start flaming or get pissy about every VI disagreement, because these are about something purely subjective. Am I right?
we don't have an entire methodology.
JuJu comes across as if does, but Steve and I don't have one. More just things we've picked up.
Neither of has claimed to be VI pros.
The end is nigh
Their gazes are different.
Yeah, this is along the lines of how I'd describe it. Putin has a stern and outwardly pointed look while the black dude has a flat Fe PoLR look.
That's a good idea. I think I'll do that. It'll also show the similarities between me and him.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I agree w/ this, that Steve wrote, "Look at the eyes. With Putin, there is a causal stream, a charge coming out of it, like he's laser targeting something (as in "which buttons/nodes am I going to press?" - Se seeking Fe), whereas with this black dude there is a flatness in that specific area, there is more of a "passive observing" - as in Te just watching stuff "as is" externally within the set Fi context "this is where things are".
I think that above is well said!
The ISTj's is OK with exerting force onto people, a la, telling them what to do, physically moving things around, getting in your face and repeating the same thing over and over until you do something, etc. The ISTp is not. They'd prefer to contemplating action, but their own action, their independent projects, not looking to mobilize/involve others if they can avoid it.
That's a key Beta/Delta difference -- the Betas are about the "collective" whole and "we must all bend to whatever that is" (being polite here is accepting that -- influencing others is OK), and in Delta world, the key idea is independence, which allows each person to choose for themselves (being polite here means giving others their "space" to choose -- influencing others is sort of a violation of rights).
So the eyes are different because the ISTj is sizing things up in terms of "who can I move around or say something to influence someone in an Se way to get them to conform to the collective whole?" and an ISTp is "what do I want to achieve in an efficient way independently, without needing to influence others?"
The ISTp eyes are more blank, cold, unfocused, unemotional -- this could look angry to someone who is used to seeing more emotion, as they'd assume a lack of expression must mean something is wrong -- the ISTp eyes are more than anything focused on their OWN thoughts, perceptions, etc, that don't involve influencing others. Where as the ISTj eyes don't look blank, because they are also thinking of influencing people with Se. So the ISTj will show more "emotion" in terms of talking loudly or quietly or gesturing, etc. Where as the ISTp is more monotone and often doesn't express much of anything. The ISTj eyes have "intent to influence" (which is a more focused, intense look) and the ISTp don't (which is more of a blank, independent look).
I'd say the biggest difference in terms of "vibe" between the ISTj and ISTP is the ISTj, the ISTj is OK with "making" you do something and the ISTP is not. This Se difference does come through in the eyes. Look at Dr. Phil. His eyes are a bit more intense, focused, than an ISTps eyes. He looks like he'd be OK with picking you up and moving you across the room if you might be in his way. This black man doesn't look like that. He'd prefer to find a solution on his own to deal w/ you being in his way if possible...such as leaving, or something else where influencing you could be avoided.
I rambled there, but you get the idea...
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
likes SHAMING WARTLARD, says that you're basing a number of typings on VI. That makes it a de facto methodology.
It's not a guess, it's a prediction based on an internal gestalt. The only reason there are different levels of confidence with typings is that with some people, it's harder to see the underlying necessary cues to place them.
That's a good way of looking at it. I'd say those are the general themes...not necessarily literal, but on an existential level, what you wrote definitely rings true
Can't really say its a methodology. Beta ST girls are just easy for me to pick out because of the eyes. Its like a one off thing that I've integrated.
If I made a thread showing all the different eyes or features of each type, thats more like a methodology.
The end is nigh
Don't argue semantics. Making concrete type suggestions based on something makes it a method.
@jewels, thanks for that insightful explanation.
well its very different than someone like JuJu who makes it explicit that he is a Vi pro an can teach you how its done.
I'm not arguing semantics lol.
Fine, my method is a relatively patchy, but evolving database with some areas more solid than others.
If you call that a methodology so be it.
The end is nigh
It's funny how enneagram is so much easier to debate on an ostensible/concretely behaviorally observable level.
yeah it is. oh well we gotta deal.
The end is nigh
Steve, you have Bear Grylls as LSI? I can't see it from his attitude. He attacks nature likes he's a kid in a playground. He's doesn't seem to be pensive or exhibit an Ij temperament at all. You should see the episode with him and Will Ferrell (a very deadpan LII, I think) they were pretty funny together. Especially the part when Will tackles him, he laughs it off. I was thinking ILE.
The saddest ESFj
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