Well JuJu is obviously full of shit and in the mood of pooping it here and all over the forum. And while I have no problem ignoring his posts, others who have been directly insulted have the right to respond the way they did of course, and I'm not bothered by that. And Steve and AA already explained their typings, with pictures.Originally Posted by Azeroffs
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
If I was a newcomer to this forum, I would think that VI is a very contentious issue and people get hostile when asked to back up their assertions with more than just broad, baseless statements like this:
and this:
Now this is the stuff VI is made out of:When I see this guy, I think of smooth jazz, sappy love songs, gentle mahogany love making (), bluesyness, enjoyment of a sunny villa restaurant in the big city, and Delta.
Do you see the difference? jx and others are referring to actual things in the pictures--not just gut feelings.Assuming this isn't a joke and he's not a mannequin, I'll guess LSI based on these posed pictures.
My impression: the guy is a bit too rigid and inflexible for my taste. I don't think he'd respond well to any zany ideas or complete u-turns and radical changes of plan (Ne). The first one seems like something he might react caustically towards. The second one, perhaps angrily towards.
He seems like he wouldn't have a problem quickly and efficiently implementing some system. Oh, and he seems like a type of guy that would ask lots of pointed and repetitive questions when he doesn't yet fully understand something (which is a trait I've seen in lots of beta STs).
That's it, I think. I really hope that's not a mannequin though.
yea...
with pictures? You think showing a picture of a comedian, or a guy laughing in a bar proves anything? What makes you think SLIs never smile? If I show you a picture of some smiling SLIs, would you think they are LSI?
He looks kinda pissed off in that "natural" looking photo. Looking pissed off is an outward expressed emotion, aka Fe. He has a rather severe look to him in general. That doesn't mean he's NOT expressing Fe.
The saddest ESFj
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Well, fwiw, I'm not sure if I'd always respond positively to those things myself. I mean, if we were to do something together, and if I was like busting my ass off collecting information and planning something in extreme detail for days, and if say you suddenly changed your mind about what you wanted to do or take it to a whole new direction where all my previous efforts would go down the drain, then I'd totally be pissed and tell you to go screw yourself.
Te types ask a lot of questions too, and can sound the same way, though for them is more about gathering new information and utilizing them in practice rather than clarifying and securing their existing notions.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Are you not?
You're taking it out of context. I was answering to what Azeroffs wrote. I was pointing out that they'd done what he was suggesting they all do - "explain their different views on VI". Steve did it with photo comparison, AA voiced his impressions, and JuJu did nothing but contradict them with insults (like he does in most threads and with other people) and without supporting his typing.
What makes you think I think that SLIs never smile?
I don't know, why don't we try....
O hi there, you think you have something to say? We're here for you, the best support group on the net, the16types. And he does NOT look pissed off, that's just your subjective impression.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
As far as i've read, Jxrtes is the only one with a legitimate reasoning for his typing. Everyone else gave their opinions, which is fine, and then the rest of you who are fighting calling each other idiots need to stop and give actual arguements besides personal attacks. The pictures are fine, but just being like "here is an example of how youre wrong" is not explaining anything.
Since I started on this forum, I've been looking through the VI section to try to learn some VI skills, and all I find is this:
X type. (how did you get that?)
There's no way he could be X type. (why not?)
He isn't showing X function. (explain?)
you're an idiot. (wow..)
I come out with nothing. I have seen very little objective facts when it comes to VI and so I've been forced to try and make the connections which I'm sure is the same for many others, and that's why no one actually knows how to VI. Or at least that's how I feel about the VI section of this forum.
And what do YOU do? Report the progress of the thread and teach others what to do?(I don't know why the hell I'm even replying to this)
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Best argument ever. You reek of Se.
The saddest ESFj
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A couple of you claim to be posting "for the good of the newcomers and to show people socionics." As a newcomer and someone who wants to learn more about socionics, I am not impressed.And what do YOU do? Report the progress of the thread and teach others what to do?
I don't believe that VI is reliable or anything. Actually I think it sucks as a method. But how sure are you that this guy is your identical?
Second, even if you were busting your ass for a week, I'd feel totally justified in changing your plan to make it better. That's what Ne is about -- seeing the potential in things to improve, and improving them. I wouldn't necessarily throw out your plan, just try to modify it. Ne types have a strong awareness of what interests them and what doesn't and it feels physically painful to endure something uninteresting or boring. I can't do it.
LSIs aren't responsive to this, because with Ne polr it would feel like I was dismantling the plan rather than improving it. Also as statics, they're presenting a complete, unmodifiable product. They'll take my attempt to change their product as a personal threat to its integrity, and probably lash out.
People that devalue my main function this way are boring. The guy in the picture you showed seems like a boring fart. (nothing personal though, I'm sure he's a nice guy, and it would be interesting to see a video to confirm whether my VI is correct).
That's fine, I like it when someone asks questions about different subjects. What I absolutely can't stand is when the person hasn't fully grasped the subject, but is trying to bring it down to his level by asking lots of repetitive questions about just that one subject.Te types ask a lot of questions too, and can sound the same way, though for them is more about gathering new information and utilizing them in practice rather than clarifying and securing their existing notions.
Examples of these wronged souls please, other than your own imagination projections.
Who is the snake oil salesman here? *holds up mirror*. As far as I know, the snake oil salesmen are the ones who dodge questions and try to convince people by repetition of the same slandering of the competition. Who is doing that here? It's funny, you actually have the answers to gaining insight on your neurosis right in front of you if you'd only look.
You're prescribing your own cure, this is good. The first step to curing Neurosis is reflecting and noticing the psychodynamic, even if it's projected onto others.
Thank you
There is only one here who professes such a claim. I post for whomever is interested in what I have to say.
You reek of idiocy.
I didn't. I was making fun.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
You and me both.
The saddest ESFj
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Well, I can safely say few if any are interested in that post. I'm not saying JuJu is innocent, just that you both need to stop and say something useful or nothing at all. If you want to insult each other, it's none of my business, just keep it out of the public threads.
I just feel bad for the person who made this thread to just get a VI on some guy and ended up with a bunch of worthless bullshit that is completely irrelevant.
Se and Ti carry their dual functions Ni and Fe and they are implicit in them.
In Beta STs, there is a receptivity to an Fe current.
Behold:
Ti ESTp:
Are you going to honestly tell me that this black dude would be reactive to that kind of current? Would this black dude engage in dynamic Fe like that?
Se ISTj:
Serious for serious comparison:
VERSUS
Do you not see the Fe/Fi and Se/Si difference (and other two functions)? No wonder you've been typing so many Deltas as Betas.Impression based Socionics discussion, perfectly legitimate in a VIing thread such as this.
Also "newcomers" be aware that Steve and I go through many VI threads a week and we also communicate with eachother via other media.
I'm sorry we're "scaring" you away lol
Obviously what you aren't seeing is the constant VIing we do and the ease that it comes to us (relatively), hence quick often vague forum posts.
First personal attack
Second Personal Attack
More personal attacking
Unaswered question
You are obviously coming into this on JuJu's side, I suspect treachery.
More socionics discussion pertaining to topic
You are supposedly new yet you use the same age old arguments that they've been spewing. My suspiscion is increased
Fine, you are new. How about you don't decide things so quickly, because as a newbie, maybe (just maybe) you need to lurk awhile more before you can decide who is VIing correctly.
I doubt that you are new. You are likely an older member in disguise. If not you are pretty foolish to take sides so quickly.
Obviously you have a past with Winterpark because no one upon meeting him for the first time would make such a ridiculous and baseless assumption.
Also Fe=outward emotional expression?
Yeah you need to stop shooting your mouth off like this.
You better at least include JuJu in that set, man.
Because neither me nor Steve said we are posting for the good of newcomers. I simply asked when I scared any off.
Btw its also fishy why you seem to be attacking our position so. Perhaps you are not a newcomer? Or you have no tact and find JuJu's avatar irresistable.
Jrxtes I don't think anyone likes the bolded part.
Also, I think your belief that Ne is about improving things is far too simplistic. So Gamma's don't like improving things? Beta ST's dont like improvements? They can't see where to improve things?
I don't see how that is realistic. I mean LSI's come across as rigid, boring (sometimes, but they have their cool moments), too simplistic in thought structure, and in my biased ENTp opinion too controlling. It makes sense that an Ne/Si-er might see them this way, but to describe them as such in a universal description (for any type to understand) is worthless.
The end is nigh
I gave my impression of the picture, he said it wasn't valid because it was my subjective impression.
Again, not impressed.
The saddest ESFj
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Honestly, yes, I came out on JuJu's side simply because everyone attacks him and I see no reasoning for it. Is he at fault too? yes he is. Lets assume for a moment that I am just another member in disguise. Who gives a shit? I'm done discussing this. It's a waste of my time. I'm just shocked to see no admins.
ok here are a couple of purported LSIs. Where are the smiles, where's that eye twinkle? Educate me, please.
The saddest ESFj
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Well techinically you're strawmanning me because I have not purported these two men as LSI's.
I have not come to a descision on Chris Langan's type and the second guy looks like a Delta ST.
Here is an "eye-twinkling LSI"
Hall is obviously reactive to Fe and in total contrast to that brick wall of Te that this thread is about.
and here is a whole thread On Beta ST women eyes:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-wartlard.html
The end is nigh
I really can't stand it.
Of course everyone likes change. Does everyone like to have their pet project changed from the way it was? Does everyone like it when you interfere with their work to ''improve'' it? Believe it or not, Se types have a strong awareness of their territory (such as their work, projects, etc.) and take pride in maintaining personal control over it.Also, I think your belief that Ne is about improving things is far too simplistic. So Gamma's don't like improving things? Beta ST's dont like improvements? They can't see where to improve things?
That doesn't mean they don't support any change, only where it might personally concerns them. duh.
I'm not describing LSIs. I'm describing what my relationships with them are like. There is a difference. Of course Jean-Claude Van Damme or Saul Tigh have their cool moments. Obviously no one thinks Van Damme is boring, uninteresting and not worth knowing. Yeah, I want his autograph. But factor out the non-socionics factors, and doing regular everyday relationship stuff with them gets boring or leads to conflict. That's what I'm referring to. That's what socionics is about.I don't see how that is realistic. I mean LSI's come across as rigid, boring (sometimes, but they have their cool moments), too simplistic in thought structure, and in my biased ENTp opinion too controlling. It makes sense that an Ne/Si-er might see them this way, but to describe them as such in a universal description (for any type to understand) is worthless.
Sure and I agree with you, but its more of your second paragraph's topic that I'm referencing.
I mean, I'd get pretty anoyed if someone came in and made changes to a personal project. Depending on the usefulness of the changes I would of course reconsider.
I don't think territory in that sense really applies to Se egos. Maybe Ej's, but Se types likely don't even care about the projects lol. And if we are talking some LSI intellectual maybe, but once again I'd expect it of any intellectual.
On second thought this idea of "territory" is not bad, but a resistance to change is. Change affecting your person will likely stir anyone up Ne/Si or Ni/Se.
The end is nigh
It wasn't really directed at you, I was trying to provide counter examples. The "tough guy" LSI doesn't fit your eye twinkling theory and I know plenty of them. I was in the military.
The second guy is Steven Seagal.
Here is a discussion on Langan:
The Socionist: IQ and Socionic Type: The Smartest Man in the World
Here is where you'll find Seagal
Socionic Types of Famous People
You also have Ayn Rand on your beta thread. I have to lol @ that.
The saddest ESFj
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I have to lol @ you for not seeing her as the Nietzsche loving Se-er she was.
MAN IS SO FUCKING AWESOME
ART SHOULD DEPICT MEN AS PHYSICALLY AWE INSPIRING, I LOVE STRAIGHT EDGES, ROMANTICISM FTW
VILLAINS SHOULD BE SHOWN AS PHYSICALLY WEAK AND INSIPID
NOBLE PREDATORS PREYING ON WEAK MOOCHERS, YES!
ROBIN HOOD WAS WRONG
OBJECTIVITY, RAAAAGGHHHHKHGJHGKJ@!@!!@!@!!@
OH MURRY ROTHBARD YOUR WIFE WONT CONVERT TO ATHEISM? GET OUT OF MY ARISTOCRATIC GROUP OF ELITE THINKERS!
Yeah so Rand was in fact ESTp, she is so Beta its somewhat silly.
The end is nigh
Dude, same here. And I'm also an expert on EIIs from the time I spent in and out of convents the past five or six years of my life. And ILEs and LIIs from all those god damn science fairs I used to get a kick out of. And SLIs from camping so much, SEEs from dance clubs, and my god, I cannot tell you how many ILIs I've met since I started traveling the “internets” today. Unfortunately, I don't know what LIEs are like yet since I've never been to Wall Street, but hopefully I'll meet one soon.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
Its official.
I love Allie.
The end is nigh
I was only trying to point out that not all LSIs are grinning fools like Seth Green and that guy in the video. Some are quite serious and rarely smile. I know many of the serious LSIs that rarely smile because there were plenty of them in the military. I had one for a roommate. He always looked pissed off in his pictures and he loved jazz (that's just a coincidence, I'm not saying all LSIs love jazz).
Last edited by electric sheep; 06-07-2009 at 07:19 PM.
The saddest ESFj
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For comparison, some LSIs with serious expressions - notice the receptiveness to the Fe causality, as if their circuits are waiting for the charge. Also, LSIs seem to exude rough raw waves of Fe that are like signals for the ENFj to refine and send back at them:
In contrast to ISTp seriousness, which to me seems like a much more flat presentation of affect:
[img]http://c2.api.ning.com/files/gn4Fnb4RPUdFJhe21tHPVjkIX6AaN5BrKbUXQkItu2I1xA*Ey9 *YU*j4BSCcwCaJJ-sRpEa4*FKik*4hdTO996KQ1swwftPS/chucknorris.jpg[/img]
I will also concede the possibility that the dude shown in this thread is ESTj, as there seems to be slightly more outward directed energy from his pics than from the ISTps shown, however either way, the guy is Delta>Beta - the presence/void of Fe in the ISTjs and ISTps shown respectively still applies to their mirrors.
I don't know what is you're looking at.
heh, the resemblance is pretty good.
LOL
But not really, jxrtes.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Prove it!
Look at the eyes. With Putin, there is a causal stream, a charge coming out of it, like he's laser targeting something (as in "which buttons/nodes am I going to press?" - Se seeking Fe), whereas with this black dude there is a flatness in that specific area, there is more of a "passive observing" - as in Te just watching stuff "as is" externally within the set Fi context "this is where things are".
heh, the resemblance is pretty good.
That makes absolutely no sense. There is a charge coming out of the black dude's eyes. The guy is definitely on fire. You have to be friggin blind not to see a hidden layer of intensity. No offense, but I'm starting to think you're trying to bullshit me.
Prove to me that yellow is warmer than blue
lol. The question is as meaningless as debating subjective impressions. Which is my point.
Look, I understand what you're saying, that the black dude has some sort of directed stare, but that's not what I'm referring to.
Imagine yourself interacting with both people. Imagine their voices, the way they'd make a point to you, and how their faces would animate and move. Also imagine how each of them would take to your Ne.
I hope that helps. If not, I don't know what to tell you. If Winterpark has audio of the guy speaking, that would be ideal for clearly illustrating the differences.
Also Winterpark, if you're in the mood, you may want to do a VI thread on yourself again so people can remember how Si-ish you really look.
So I'm telling you what I see. Some people know what I'm talking about, others don't. I can't get any more concrete with it. How can you with VI?
I have a vivid imagination. What exactly makes you think I haven't tried to imagine him? FWIW, I've seen guys that look just like that before and they didn't seem to value Ne. This is still worthless stipulation until I see a video of this guy using some function. Only then can the type thread really begin.
Fair enough
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