Explain your PoLR with examples thread

[Beautiful sky]

Idk this is probably bad T in general, but whenever I’m asked to compare prices between cars, hotels, flights....anything of that nature, I panic a little bit because I really don’t know what to pick, what the better deal is. I guess if there is other people involved and I have to pick a hotel I’m worried about picking a bad deal and everyone getting pissed about it. I’d rather not have to deal with it and the blame and responsibility go to someone else lol

I would usually just go with whatever I want and am not that picky about what others choose, but I hate when people pick apart and are critical of my choices because it was a bad deal or whatever.

@Braingel what do you think of this post? Relate at all?

[Braingel]

@Braingel what do you think of this post? Relate at all?

I have not had experience with that stuff, but when I go to a store, I never really keep track of price unless I feel it is excess, and then I intuitively moderate with what is cheaper, and will prioritize the items with what is needed most and eliminate what I don’t need. I mostly just use my intuition, and 9/10 times, I always have the exact amount of needed money somehow. It happens so often, where I have say, 22$ bucks, and the total is 21 something, and I don’t normally pay attention. But I don’t really otherwise have any experience with finances at all and don’t even have a debit card or my own bank account. I don’t deal with bills or anything..

I just focus on what I feel I need, but I do often seem get a bunch of stuff I do not really need, which can show weak Te in evaluating efficiency, but then again, money is not yet a concern for me.

I think the most noticeable aspect in my Te PolR is with sources and with my failure of efficiency (as well as extreme difficulty with external organization).

My parents and grandpa numerous times have told me I have no concept with money at all, and I have impulsively gotten things online before, which is why they don’t let me have debit card, I used to have one. Then they always complain how I leave money in sacks and crumpled up on the floor. And they always complain how it is wrinkled.

Me not being as productive and trying advance to be able get towards independence is another thing showing poor Te. I mean it is not that uncommon for my age, but still, you do see some heavier Te types who are very efficient, even at younger age. But some of it surely is just being younger.

[Beautiful sky]

If you have trouble communicating I am happy to do so for you!

[Braingel]

I think my father is an SP8, which I suppose is not fundamentally incompatible with LSE, since Se is 4D still, and Si makes more sense with Sp. him being an 8 and Turkish can make him seemingly SLE.

[Northstar]

I think my father is an SP8, which I suppose is not fundamentally incompatible with LSE, since Se is 4D still, and Si makes more sense with Sp. him being an 8 and Turkish can make him seemingly SLE.

I agree this is very plausible. 4D Te figures out the logic of actions of people just as they do with inanimate things, so they will know exactly what button pushing causes what reaction typically. The difference is that LSE have ignoring Ti and polr Ni and little interest in figuring out what exactly is going on "inside the box" to cause these reactions. Instead, they will get frustrated if something suddenly doesn't make sense because it breaks the established action pattern. LSE can't stand irrational and illogical actions of others, SLE are more understanding because they're irrational themselves and like to figure out what exactly causes what using Ti.

[Braingel]

I agree this is very plausible. 4D Te figures out the logic of actions of people just as they do with inanimate things, so they will know exactly what button pushing causes what reaction typically. The difference is that LSE have ignoring Ti and polr Ni and little interest in figuring out what exactly is going on "inside the box" to cause these reactions. Instead, they will get frustrated if something suddenly doesn't make sense because it breaks the established action pattern. LSE can't stand irrational and illogical actions of others, SLE are more understanding because they're irrational themselves and like to figure out what exactly causes what using Ti.

Yeah, I do think my father is really an LSE now. I had originally typed him LSE, but a bunch of people thought he was an SLE, and then he is an E8 and is a volleyball coach, and the way he expresses his anger is sort of Se-like.. But I think my original LSE view is correct, and it really is just him being an 8 that makes him look SLE, and then as @LemurianLo pointed out, he is Turkish and that culture is very beta. He grew up there.

[Braingel]

My yeah.. I suppose apart of also why my relation with him can be hard is because we strike one another’s PolR, maybe.. But the real issue is that my father wants to control his emotions and also express himself more, which it can be his 8. He does disparage my emotional expression.

He is an unhealthy Sp8. And then that again can just make him look Beta combined with his being Turkish.

[Braingel]

I am attracted to healthy 8. I suppose because they force me to see the healthy version of my father. I am deeply attracted to the video game character Yuri Lowell.

He’s an Sp8 and either would be SLE-Ti or LIE-Ni.

In the actual anime, he’s definitely SLE. I would marry the shit out of him. He’s everything I ever would want.

[Tarnished]

I am attracted to healthy 8. I suppose because they force me to see the healthy version of my father. I am deeply attracted to the video game character Yuri Lowell.

He’s an Sp8 and either would be SLE-Ti or LIE-Ni.

In the actual anime, he’s definitely SLE. I would marry the shit out of him. He’s everything I ever would want.

This guy definitely look SLE. Remind me of Jaime Lannister (Game of Thrones)

[Braingel]

This guy definitely look SLE. Remind me of Jaime Lannister (Game of Thrones)

Yeah Yuri Lowell is literally everything I want in a guy. Everything.

[Braingel]

This guy definitely look SLE. Remind me of Jaime Lannister (Game of Thrones)

Omg Yuri looks like the spitting image of him, but it’s light vs dark https://iceandfire.fandom.com/wiki/Jaime_Lannister

[Braingel]

Well my mother is an ESE, so that means that I would strike both of my parent’s PolR. I supervise my mom a lot, and she always takes offense. I guess maybe apart of why they scapegoat me has do with my Ni, and they both feel “ganged upon” by me.

My sister is SLE or LSE. My relation with my mother still is very poor, but she is the one that I best along along with family, and she also is very expressive.

My mother always complains about how I behave currently and overlooks the past that brought me to behave this way. She overlooks how things can affect the future, and when I always correct her, she clams up.
I also have gotten her a bit more using Ni, with how she has attended holy angelic vinyasa yoga with me, and I made her get some crystals. Angelic yoga is where you connect with archangels and feel their presence.

I also challenge her to look at her own childhood and how it brought her to her own conditioning and she is resistant on it, but I occasionally will breakthrough, but she does not fully accept it and it just sort of makes her freeze for a second in thought, and then she retorts to defense.

[Braingel]

It is a very good thing that I am an Ni base, because the Soylular and Findley (mother’s maiden name) families have perpetuated abuse for several generations, and I am the one who is looking at the pattern and drawing awareness. The lack of Ni, and it often being PolR in my family, has been huge issue and may be apart of why it has passed on.

1D Ni in my family is highly prevalent, majority being ESE, LSE, SLE and SEE. Sometimes I wonder if my autism was mutation to adapt survival. And autism is often correlated with Ni base in accordance to Gulenko and Jung.

Majority of my family abuses substance, my mother also has her own issue with alcohol. And when you abuse substances, the people you are around generally are a certain kind. So they would not have as likely met the Ni bases or Ne introverts they needed. My mother and father married one another after 6 weeks and met at a sushi bar.

I am the only highly using Ni user in my family I can recall aside from one cousin, though my grandma could have been EII. She would be EII or SEI, but she had her own substance abusing issue. I think her being dual with my grandpa can work, my grandpa an LSE. She did break some of her chain, but she could not break her substance abuse, sadly.

Intuitive type in my family practically non-exists. My transgender cousin also has gotten awareness, and she probably is IEE.

There is no balance. It is just pure sensory type.

With my Ni, I can show the history and project the patterns and make them more conscious, the ones who will listen. My mother and sister I may be able save. I am the one who is in the position to change and conduct the history the Soylular and Findley’s will go.

[Braingel]

This is interesting though to think about. If one family tree is mostly sensory or intuitive, illness can more likely come from imbalance...

Negligence of sensory matter or putting foot down, or failing to grasp patterns to break cycle or look at alternative.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

@Braingel

That person was probably LSE with a IEE therapist, making them activity partners. Activity therapy usually works very well in my experience- the best therapist I ever had was a LSI really- so no wonder he thinks that. The Te veneer of therapy is just that though, a veneer. He'd most likely feel the same way about his life and how it's improved if he talked to the person on the street instead of inside a therapy office- if he would allow himself to do so. You have to 'hit the Se pavement' to do that though- and non-Se valuers are incapable of that, bless their little hearts.

I like IEEs as friends- but they are god awful at being my therapist. Most professional regular basic bitch Te therapy is just chockful of IEEs it seems though lol. Like 95% IEEs... (I'm exaggerating maybe- but at least 80% in my experience)

[Braingel]

@Braingel

That person was probably LSE with a IEE therapist, making them activity partners. Activity therapy usually works very well in my experience- the best therapist I ever had was a LSI really- so no wonder he thinks that. The Te veneer of therapy is just that though, a veneer. He'd most likely feel the same way about his life and how it's improved if he talked to the person on the street instead of inside a therapy office- if he would allow himself to do so. You have to 'hit the Se pavement' to do that though- and non-Se valuers are incapable of that, bless their little hearts.

I like IEEs as friends- but they are god awful at being my therapist. Most professional regular basic bitch Te therapy is just chockful of IEEs it seems though lol. Like 95% IEEs... (I'm exaggerating maybe- but at least 80% in my experience)

I can agree with this, given he talks about what has empirically worked for him. Also, he saw that it worked in his own self, so he thinks it must work for others, and since Te likes go by what is measured and "psychotherapy" is measured "well" in terms of what clients often perceive as it being helpful, he thinks it is only way. Sad and narrow-minded. I have been more helped by an LII-Ti, oneI talk to online, than any crappy, shoddy therapist I ever have had. I think the benefit may also be good, but the issue is that it can be harder to implement their feedback, and it is a bit harder for me, and I do ignore some of what he says, but he has helped me a lot, it just took longer for it to seep in, since my Ni wants to ignore his Ne and my Ti is not as strong as is, his own.

As I before had said, sitting on a couch for one hour a week ain't going to do jack shit. Your environment and what is around you is far more of imprecate, and also of course, exploring realms within. Psychotherapy is placebo and you can have good friends who are jut as effective as a therapist, and then you can have shitty therapists who make things worse, just as some people in your life may give bad advice. The only thing that has a benefit over psychotherapy is that it is one-sided and you are not expected reciprocate. Which can be helpful and help one to feel less pressure. You do reciprocate with money I suppose, but I man emotionally of course.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I am annoyed by overly official business/government speak- somebody on another thread once that IEI-Ni Te polr is like being weak against government bureaucracy types and I related a lot to that. There are a lot of rules that don't make sense to me and are are contradictory because often times they will change something based on Fi feelings and not enough true objectivity or real evidence. And the business world is like this too- because often times things get changed around dynamically by whatever the CEO wants narcissistically or whatever- based on their weird Fi whims that I don't value.

It's not based on your real skill or merit - or even what a good person you are really, although Fi does like to play the moral righteous game sure. It all mostly matters if somebody likes you in a Fi way or not. If you are liked you are treated better than Christ and worshipped- if you are disliked, you are treated worse than Satan's butthole. (winks @flames )

I don't view Te as simply 'objective truth' or anything- maybe a type of objective truth at times, but Te is always changing based on Fi so sometimes it's not even really factually true at all- it's actually the opposite of the truth, that's what is so annoying about it. Raw knowledge and facts are more of a Ti thing really.

This comic sums it up I think what annoys me about Te:

bureaucracy.jpg

[Tim]

@Braingel I seconded @necrosebud and @BandD typing your dad as LSE. I could see similarities between my dad and your dad.


To understand what type my parents is, my dad is an LSE 8w9 (836) sp/so but I'm willing to consider SEE or LIE for his typing and even a very aggressive enneagram 3. All I know is that he withdraw to a withdrawn type in stress. He was a war refugee so that might be an indicator on why he became a self-preservation 8. While I do think the most likely sociotype for enneagram 8 are SLE and SEE, I think there is prevalence of Te base in self-preservation 8 because they are depicted as responsible cheapskate. Similar to your dad, my dad is considered in Te society to be highly "educated" and have advanced degree. My dad have a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering at the top engineering school (UC Berkeley) and then have a Master of Science in Mechancial Engineering at University of Illinois. He's high achieving but then, he started his own manufacturing business before I was born.


My mom is a ESI 9w8 (962) sp/sx. She is a rational type and a traditional clean freak helicopter parent. However, I have encounter ESI 6s and she is not as reactive as they are. She is moralistic at times banning me from watching Simpsons and South Park when I was younger even though I ended up sneaking in and watch the shows. Most of the time, after cleaning the house, she just want to lay down and watch TV, which is an indicator of being a core 9. She does valued Ni, and when I argued with my mom over when I am that way, she does seem to understand. However, she supervised me over my lack of Fi telling me to change my behavior regardless of the emotional atmosphere between me and my dad in order to build my relations.


My younger sister is an EII 2w1 (269) sp/so. She is a stereotype of a goody two-shoes and she wanted to be love by acting like a child. She doesn't value Se at all. My dad and my sister never clashed with each other at all. She is the good child of the family. Apparently, my family are all Fi valuers. My sister did once compliment my dad over him fixing the air conditioners and providing a comfortable atmosphere for her to be in.

[Braingel]

@Braingel I seconded @necrosebud and @BandD typing your dad as LSE. I could see similarities between my dad and your dad.


To understand what type my parents is, my dad is an LSE 8w9 (836) sp/so but I'm willing to consider SEE or LIE for his typing and even a very aggressive enneagram 3. All I know is that he withdraw to a withdrawn type in stress. He was a war refugee so that might be an indicator on why he became a self-preservation 8. While I do think the most likely sociotype for enneagram 8 are SLE and SEE, I think there is prevalence of Te base in self-preservation 8 because they are depicted as responsible cheapskate. Similar to your dad, my dad is considered in Te society to be highly "educated" and have advanced degree. My dad have a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering at the top engineering school (UC Berkeley) and then have a Master of Science in Mechancial Engineering at University of Illinois. He's high achieving but then, he started his own manufacturing business before I was born.


My mom is a ESI 9w8 (962) sp/sx. She is a rational type and a traditional clean freak helicopter parent. However, I have encounter ESI 6s and she is not as reactive as she is. She is moralistic at times banning me from watching Simpsons and South Park even though I ended up sneaking in and watch the shows. Most of the time, after cleaning the house, she just want to lay down and watch TV, which is an indicator of being a core 9. She does valued Ni, and when I argued with my mom over when I am that way, she does seem to understand. However, she supervised me over my lack of Fi telling me to change my behavior regardless of the emotional atmosphere between us in order to build my relations with my dad.


My younger sister is an EII 2w1 (269) sp/so. She is a stereotype of a goody two-shoes and she wanted to be love by acting like a child. She doesn't value Se at all. My dad and my sister never clashed with each other at all. She is the good child of the family. Apparently, my family are all Fi valuers. My sister did once compliment my dad over him fixing the air conditioners and providing a comfortable atmosphere for her to be in.

My father watched his mother get beat, and he was beat by his dad and he grew up in Istanbul in a time of terrorism and had gun held to his head. That probably made him feel loss of control, hence 8.

[Braingel]

He does know it hurts me and he gaslights and he physically abused me sometimes too. One time, he abused me physically so bad, my mom had to pull him off me and literally grab him off me, and he was pulling me by my hair forty seconds. But.. He does have his own trauma and abusive history, so it’s not completely conscious, but he does know he’s hurting me, but does have his own issues. He was abused worse than me as a child by his alcoholic dad.

His brother turned out equally fucked and is in prison life long: https://www.google.com/amp/s/losange...husband/%3famp

[Beautiful sky]

I’m sorry to hear about all the abuse you guys went through. As a parent that truly breaks my heart. I hope you guys learn to heal your demons and leave them in the dust. As with everything it takes time and conditioning

[Braingel]

I think LSE is plausible, and him being an E8 makes him look beta-like. As said, he definitely is SP and he would also be 8w9.

[Braingel]

I for years just took the abuse in the ass, but about 15, I started reacting back and I got placed in 3 childhood mental health facilities because I would fight back and they did not want deal with me or my autism symptom. I got taken out of my house in middle of night so I had no way a know or run away, and people took me to Cathedral Home for Children, where I also got abused 6 1/2 months.

I have exposed my parents all over social media, and it put pressure on both my parents.

[Beautiful sky]

You know as an EII this sort of stuff does bother me a lot though I may not show it since so many things go through my mind like possibilities and directions and solutions. I just want you guys to find the morsel of peace and happiness. If you need to make allies among people who can help or provide a buffer that would be best I think that includes intermediaries or translators. Since you guys are conflicts that is probably not serving you well for good communication. Good relationships are about communication and respect. You don’t have to be someone that you are not just that this whole Socionics thing is that window that we are all so different, but through patience and communication some things are possible.

Rambling

[RaptorWesNet]

Braingel says that She does angelic yoga, but there's no ritual needed to bond with the divine. Flair on a Crayola of expression and heart wizardry conceives the life river of fun and games for transpiring with Your sound of peace how to arrange Your buttons to trophy grab the emblem of eternity.

[Braingel]

A ritual or group may help to concentrate action. Rituals may work in placebo way and amplify energy of will, and forcing oneself to attend a group and to have others hold them accountable to it, may help to foster one’s growth if they struggle with motivation.

[Braingel]

It is true there is no needed ritual, but some things can help to quiet mind in an obstreperous world, and enables you to with more ease, avert fully inward undisturbed, and a group often will help you to set aside time and actually force to do it, which can be a real hurdle if you are stuck into your own intertidal and do not get up on own because of not being structured.

[Braingel]

I also often get suckered into arguments that are fruitless. I envision how they will not matter at times, but I just get suckered in, and then I waste my time.. A user in community named Safsom, an LSI, even pointed to me out, how it’s not worthy of my time. And then some ILI and LIE have also told me it’s wasted time, even Ashton had told me I should not care what “an idiot thinks”.

[chriscorey]

I often get suckered into arguing with NFs... Oh well, such is life.. Thankfully I don't need a man to tell me that's what happened.

[Braingel]

I often get suckered into arguing with NFs... Oh well, such is life.. Thankfully I don't need a man to tell me that's what happened.

If my view on the Ne/Ni thing seemed like I was trying fight you on it, that’s not what I was trying to do and I’m sorry if it came off as such

[chriscorey]

If my view on the Ne/Ni thing seemed like I was trying fight you on it, that’s not what I was trying to and I’m sorry if it came off as such

I like debate because it helps me learn. I'm not always right. I need to be told I'm wrong... <3

[Braingel]

I want Yuri to come through the screen, save me and forever live off with him and venture for rest of our lives and slay injustice right by one another, in different way.

In that clip, he (Yuri) definitely is SLE-Ti (the anime), and Flynn (blonde guy), LSI.

He is such an Fi PolR in the movie (where he cries and does not know how to feel)..

And his 8 is so apparent:


Him in the video game:


He may be LIE-Ni by the video game... But overall if you look at his archetype, SLE fits him most. And he probably is an 8w7 in the movie but 8w9 in video game.. If he is an 8w9 SLE, to may make his Se look more subdued, hence he looks superficially gamma. And he absolutely is an Sp. There are some times he looks very HA Fe in the video game as well, though...

What do you think @Tim? Do you think SLE or LIE? (By video game)

[Tarnished]

I want Yuri to come through the screen, save me and forever live off with him and venture for rest of our lives and slay injustice right by one another, in different way.

In that clip, he (Yuri) definitely is SLE-Ti (the anime), and Flynn (blonde guy), LSI.

He is such an Fi PolR in the movie (where he cries and does not know how to feel)..

And his 8 is so apparent:


Him in the video game:


He may be LIE-Ni by the video game... But overall if you look at his archetype, SLE fits him most. And he probably is an 8w7 in the movie but 8w9 in video game.. If he is an 8w9 SLE, to may make his Se look more subdued, hence he looks superficially gamma. And he absolutely is an Sp. There are some times he looks very HA Fe in the video game as well, though...

What do you think @Tim? Do you think SLE or LIE? (By video game)

The guy in the game look SLE to me (a little bit soft compare to normal SLE). LIE in a social situation is more "follow the social rule" and more serious - their Fe sometime make you feel "fake". And when they feel more comfortable, they begin to talk about businesses, ideas, how to improve things... workaholic type of people.

Here is a clip I believe LIE vs SLE talk...

[Braingel]

The guy in the game look SLE to me (a little bit soft compare to normal SLE). LIE in a social situation is more "follow the social rule" and more serious - their Fe sometime make you feel "fake". And when they feel more comfortable, they begin to talk about businesses, ideas, how to improve things... workaholic type of people.

Here is a clip I believe LIE vs SLE talk...

I think the softness is his wing 9 in his 8. Combined with SP variant.

[RaptorWesNet]

I want Yuri to come through the screen, save me and forever live off with him and venture for rest of our lives and slay injustice right by one another, in different way.

In that clip, he (Yuri) definitely is SLE-Ti (the anime), and Flynn (blonde guy), LSI.

He is such an Fi PolR in the movie (where he cries and does not know how to feel)..

And his 8 is so apparent:


Him in the video game:


He may be LIE-Ni by the video game... But overall if you look at his archetype, SLE fits him most. And he probably is an 8w7 in the movie but 8w9 in video game.. If he is an 8w9 SLE, to may make his Se look more subdued, hence he looks superficially gamma. And he absolutely is an Sp. There are some times he looks very HA Fe in the video game as well, though...

What do you think @Tim? Do you think SLE or LIE? (By video game)

Wow, all of this fantasy and super extraordinaire violence and frenzy of the ascended plateau to myth making and frivolous petals of midnight is so similar to those fire emblem videos in the random thought thread with these dialogues of whirling fine aspects of exotic voyages through theaters and timelines of ancient origins in a detached and separate world of gems and frolicking through meadow after gravity crushing deluge that the Atlantean fables are singing glass barriers to open the gates to every possible world!!

[Braingel]

It also explains why my relation with him is so horrid. I am the only Ni leader of my entire family, and they all feel threatened by it, since it is their PolR function. I am "too powerful" in a subtle way for them that they cannot fathom, and it just to them feels "worthless", because they do not see to its usage and it is poor in them.

My sister can be an LSE her own self too.

I am actually what the family needs, though, since I defy with my ability focus on grander scheme and ability to anticipate course of things playing out, the perpetuated cycle of abuse.

[Braingel]

My father is quite literally, an economical genius. He came to America all alone at 18 to escape his own abuse, he got his way all the way up to a Master's in business, started to get his PhD.. And he has made multi-million from owning volleyball club (and is the head coach and competes at national level). He knows how to strategize and market himself.. And then he does value a lot of Si things, like having higher quality wine and dine which my ESE mother is very fond of..

Te-Si fits the bill in spite of his anger that is borderline sociopathic, and his also need to exert force and engage in Se endeavor.

[Braingel]

I think massage therapy is more effective than psychotherapy in all honesty, unless it will endlessly trigger trauma (with touch) and you need first surmount that triggering. But it also can be healing to expose to that and tackle the traumatic trigger eventually when at certain stage of recovery. Equine therapy and massage therapy are therapies that can actually help you to gain something from that you cannot just get relationally. And there is such thing as somatic psychotherapy.

https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-ab...-psychotherapy

[Braingel]

I think massage therapy is more effective than psychotherapy in all honesty, unless it will endlessly trigger trauma (with touch) and you need first surmount that triggering. But it also can be healing to expose to that and tackle the traumatic trigger eventually when at certain stage of recovery. Equine therapy and massage therapy are therapies that can actually help you to gain something from that you cannot just get relationally. And there is such thing as somatic psychotherapy.

https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-ab...-psychotherapy

Perhaps equine therapy can be preceding the massage therapy, to process physical sensation on a horse and at your own rate, and learning how to feel safe in your own body and with another force that is not human and lacks ability to in a conscious, emotional way (since horses only can out of instinct, harm) harm you. It exposes you to movement and then how your body moves may evoke certain emotions that maybe resemble the physical position or movement your trauma was in, and being on the horse is processing that in a safe way to relive that in a way that is another movement, and you are seeing as it moves, it is not traumatic.

[Braingel]

Even the first "therapists" in our time, were really just ordinary people who had no methods to help anyone heal, and they by observing, cultivated the shills. All you need do is really, observe someone to see what will help them, and also, some patience, compassion and insight of knowing what will work given the timing in what is present and what is best for that time of presentation.

They literally would not have any studying available and literally just had go by their own insight and observation. The founders of psych, the first ever to attempt counsel that had “formality”. But what different is a therapist from one who is keen observer of man, and who has insights to apply to help from what he/she observes?

Sure, many gave the wrong approach, but today more is known, and even the working methods today would have required observation and insight.