EII-ILE supervision relations (INFj and ENTp)

[Lord Pixel]

This relation is really weird I swear to god. Once again ILE only understands outward emotions, and has an easier time dealing with those than the internal invisble emotions. Having to tell someone to eff off so loudly and vibrantly feels almost like a violation of my own psyche as an Fe ignoring type. It's funny how ILE laughs in a comfortable way when told to eff off and how different that response is to their more fearful and concerned reaction to someone just out right ignoring them or giving them the silent treatment.

[The Reality Denialist]

What the EFF. Fi is relationship of ethics (in Delta it is quite wired bonds in your confided territory) this socionics stuff is not some amped up MBTI. For instance it means not giving a crap about your status in your community or following community etc. Like not taking your advice because you are in the elder position or thinking that guidelines are stupid which starts ultimately undermine the person you are in contact with or becoming extremely uncertain about their own place and breaking the taboos .

But they aren't so good at Fe either...


Anyway, sounds like your Fe is wearing you down. Maybe super ego stuff.

[FreelancePoliceman]

@YXPR @Lord Pixel

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of an Alpha NT

Hey, that’s me! And I think I understand how ILEs work pretty well.

So what’s most important to understand is that Ne is basically like a drug. Users need fixes. In Deltas Ne-caused assholeness is restrained by Fi, but in Alpha NTs and especially ILEs, there’s a really persistent impulse to be amused, like a child. If you care, this technically originates in a more general need to feel interested and engaged in life; if he can’t, he feels genuine despair and suicidal desires. Get to know an ILE well and you’ll usually find existential despair locked under the surface. Early enough in life he gets disillusioned by how limited life appears, by his mortality, by how disgustingly similar and banal most people are, whatever. But humor is different: the same impulses that fuel desire for the novel make it significantly easier for him to find humor in things — a specific kind of humor though. It thrills him to no end to push people’s buttons, because he’s changing them and making them act differently from normal! He not only gets to see what people are like under the surface, but actually instigate the change — and, of course, the change is humorous, not just interesting. ILEs/Alpha NTs’ favorite humor is the bizarre and unexpected, and if they can cause someone to feel their world has turned inside out for a second it causes a genuinely euporic feeling.

I recently posted an example about how I once, without even thinking about it, convinced my girlfriend jackalopes were a real animal, because it really amused me to watch her try to fit jackalopes into her worldview. It was an asshole thing to do, but it illustrates the point. A lighter example is of my ILE classics professor: a student in class tended to swear a lot, and once he asked her to name the grammatical function of a word. She replied “cognate accusative.” He replied “please don’t swear in my class,” taking her aback and causing her to replay the last ten seconds several times over in her head to wonder what had provoked that response and if he was angry at her for having sworn so often in class before. He was quite amused from her confusion, and though on the one hand the joke was about a pesky element of grammar, it was also calculated to confuse her.

Now that I explain it it really does makes us sound like jackasses. But it’s really not meant that way. If ILEs realize they actually hurt someone they feel awful, and there’s generally a great deal of effort made to establish a casual, lighthearted atmosphere.

[Lord Pixel]

@YXPR @Lord Pixel



Hey, that’s me! And I think I understand how ILEs work pretty well.

So what’s most important to understand is that Ne is basically like a drug. Users need fixes. In Deltas Ne-caused assholeness is restrained by Fi, but in Alpha NTs and especially ILEs, there’s a really persistent impulse to be amused, like a child. If you care, this technically originates in a more general need to feel interested and engaged in life; if he can’t, he feels genuine despair and suicidal desires. Get to know an ILE well and you’ll usually find existential despair locked under the surface. Early enough in life he gets disillusioned by how limited life appears, by his mortality, by how disgustingly similar and banal most people are, whatever. But humor is different: the same impulses that fuel desire for the novel make it significantly easier for him to find humor in things — a specific kind of humor though. It thrills him to no end to push people’s buttons, because he’s changing them and making them act differently from normal! He not only gets to see what people are like under the surface, but actually instigate the change — and, of course, the change is humorous, not just interesting. ILEs/Alpha NTs’ favorite humor is the bizarre and unexpected, and if they can cause someone to feel their world has turned inside out for a second it causes a genuinely euporic feeling.

I recently posted an example about how I once, without even thinking about it, convinced my girlfriend jackalopes were a real animal, because it really amused me to watch her try to fit jackalopes into her worldview. It was an asshole thing to do, but it illustrates the point. A lighter example is of my ILE classics professor: a student in class tended to swear a lot, and once he asked her to name the grammatical function of a word. She replied “cognate accusative.” He replied “please don’t swear in my class,” taking her aback and causing her to replay the last ten seconds several times over in her head to wonder what had provoked that response and if he was angry at her for having sworn so often in class before. He was quite amused from her confusion, and though on the one hand the joke was about a pesky element of grammar, it was also calculated to confuse her.

Now that I explain it it really does makes us sound like jackasses. But it’s really not meant that way. If ILEs realize they actually hurt someone they feel awful, and there’s generally a great deal of effort made to establish a casual, lighthearted atmosphere.

This is a good description of the joker.

I'm glad you were able to put into words something I knew but could not articulate. As far as what gives them the euphoric feeling, this is why this IR sucks for both sides. The very thing that gives them euphoric feeling is the very thing that causes sharp pain and hate for the thing that is causing the pain in me. Causing me to feel my world get turned inside out, for someone's pleasure just builds up resentment and bitterness over time until one day your shouting death threats lol. And it's tricky because sometimes it is genuinely funny and harmless(like that grammar joke) and sometimes it's not, the ability to find humor in things extends to ALL things even really effed up things, and sometimes it's aimed to hurt you, cuz like you said they wanna make you act different or whatever, and that's something I would do to people I don't like but ILE does that to close friends and expects them to remain close. It does take me back for sure to see that ILE doesn't already know doing this is hurtful to the person or that they really don't care sometimes it seems, so having to say it out loud feels redundant or irrelevant.

I agree once it's finally said ILE does try to make amends, and there are times where I just try and roll with the shock value jokes and laugh along to appear unaffected, but these are unnatural compromises and our natures can only be contained for so long until he breaks and says the thing and I break and blow over.

Just imagine if a baby was given scapula and told to do surgery on you, and they cut into your insides swinging around the blade and cutting sensitive nerve endings, the pain would be unbearable, you would scream, but baby has a blast cutting up your insides without knowing the damage being done, once the baby is bored it walks away, while you have bloodloss and opened wounds to deal with, it's a conflict of interest, this is exactly how Ne and Ti and Fi PoLR together feel against Fi dominant. The most confusing part is that later on the baby wants to be loved and is confused why you don't love it anymore, like really bruh lol, do I gotta spell it out for you, and with ILE surprisingly you do sometimes.

If ILE has no knowledge of EII's personal life and they spend time around each other in doses, then this IR works great, nothing but Ne ideas and laughter about things neither person cares about.

The best way I could describe the not so horrible but discomfort of this IR is imagine a graph chart that has a straight line with only a few peaks, but the peaks it does have are very high. Mostly tame moments with few but very sharp moments of friction, only over time can one tell "Hey , maybe this isn't working out."

[Lord Pixel]

I just want to provide 1 example and then I'll stop bitching and moaning about this type.

I don't know if this is a lack of ethics thing, Fi PoLR thing, but ILE gets a rise out of screwing with people but does not like when you screw with them back. It makes no sense.

Here's a stupid example I experienced with this. ILE roommate yells " WATCH OUT!" while I'm driving, almost making me slam the breaks and screech all the way down the street. I look around to see if a car was coming and I see nothing, he goes "haaaa got em!" he was joking, Got me in a panic, ok fine it's the first time, he got me, it's kinda funny even though he has no idea I was about to send us both through the windshield. So I tell him ok haha funny, but don't do that anymore because I really was about to jam the breaks and screech down the street.

ILE does it again a couple days later, and it still catches me off guard. Now I'm pissed, I told this guy not to do that because it seriously made me almost hit the breaks and jolt us back and forth in the car (He also doesn't know I can be a skitish driver and end up turning unpredictably and hitting a pole or something). He laughs, doesn't even realize I'm pissed and just acts like everything I said last time doesn't even matter, he claims he forgot. So I'm silent and I plot to show him what it feels like. A couple days later I randomly yell " OH SHIT!" while driving, and he looks and immediately says " Yooo don't do thaaaaat." and then I'm like now you know what I go through, and then he actually replies " You know what, I can see how I would hate driving with myself." I finally felt like he understood the panic he put me in and realized he shouldn't screw with the person driving the car like that. A couple days later he does it again, I tell him it looks like he didn't learn his lesson, and with pride he says back " NOPE!". I'm pissed, this guy doesn't understand he's trying to get us killed, I told him, and he doesn't believe me. So I decide to get him back again, I know he doesn't like leaving my apartment at night because I got bats in the roof and sometimes they fly real close to you. So one night when walking to the car at night I randomly duck like something flew near me. He goes " yo you can't do that!" and he's dead serious, I say " it's the same exact thing you do to me." Then he tries to explain to me why it's different and why I can't do that to him. I'm pissed off at just the audacity he has to even try and explain why I shouldn't treat him in ways he treats me, I'm trying to figure out if he's just completely unaware that that's what he's doing or completely lacks any respect for me. His "reasoning" was there's animals in the dark and it's not funny we could "die", and I'm like, no, we can actually die in the car though if I hit something or make a sharp turn or something out of panic, or slam the breaks and get rear ended(all for your genuine euphoria), and honestly I shouldn't even humor his concerns because he didn't give a shit about mine. I guess at that point he got it because he hasn't done it since.

The reason I say is it a lack of ethics because "ethics" tells me clear as day " if you don't like something done to you, don't do that to other people" while ILE is perfectly fine with doing something to other people they don't like being done back to them, there's no idea of fairness there. How is it not frustrating to deal with someone who throws stones but tries to convince you not to breakdown their glass house because...? How do you reason in your mind " I should be allowed to do this to somebody, but they shouldn't be allowed to do it to me"? And this is just the stupid and petty example out of the bunch. Crap like this is guaranteed at least once a week if I'm not giving the silent treatment. And this guy has the audacity to say " If I'm not best man at your wedding I'm gonna be offended." Is it ILE, is this guy just a complete moron, is it 7w8? This isn't the first time I've experienced this with an ILE so idk.

[FreelancePoliceman]

I just want to provide 1 example and then I'll stop bitching and moaning about this type.

I don't know if this is a lack of ethics thing, Fi PoLR thing, but ILE gets a rise out of screwing with people but does not like when you screw with them back. It makes no sense.

Here's a stupid example I experienced with this. ILE roommate yells " WATCH OUT!" while I'm driving, almost making me slam the breaks and screech all the way down the street. I look around to see if a car was coming and I see nothing, he goes "haaaa got em!" he was joking, Got me in a panic, ok fine it's the first time, he got me, it's kinda funny even though he has no idea I was about to send us both through the windshield. So I tell him ok haha funny, but don't do that anymore because I really was about to jam the breaks and screech down the street.

ILE does it again a couple days later, and it still catches me off guard. Now I'm pissed, I told this guy not to do that because it seriously made me almost hit the breaks and jolt us back and forth in the car (He also doesn't know I can be a skitish driver and end up turning unpredictably and hitting a pole or something). He laughs, doesn't even realize I'm pissed and just acts like everything I said last time doesn't even matter, he claims he forgot. So I'm silent and I plot to show him what it feels like. A couple days later I randomly yell " OH SHIT!" while driving, and he looks and immediately says " Yooo don't do thaaaaat." and then I'm like now you know what I go through, and then he actually replies " You know what, I can see how I would hate driving with myself." I finally felt like he understood the panic he put me in and realized he shouldn't screw with the person driving the car like that. A couple days later he does it again, I tell him it looks like he didn't learn his lesson, and with pride he says back " NOPE!". I'm pissed, this guy doesn't understand he's trying to get us killed, I told him, and he doesn't believe me. So I decide to get him back again, I know he doesn't like leaving my apartment at night because I got bats in the roof and sometimes they fly real close to you. So one night when walking to the car at night I randomly duck like something flew near me. He goes " yo you can't do that!" and he's dead serious, I say " it's the same exact thing you do to me." Then he tries to explain to me why it's different and why I can't do that to him. I'm pissed off at just the audacity he has to even try and explain why I shouldn't treat him in ways he treats me, I'm trying to figure out if he's just completely unaware that that's what he's doing or completely lacks any respect for me. His "reasoning" was there's animals in the dark and it's not funny we could "die", and I'm like, no, we can actually die in the car though if I hit something or make a sharp turn or something out of panic, or slam the breaks and get rear ended(all for your genuine euphoria), and honestly I shouldn't even humor his concerns because he didn't give a shit about mine. I guess at that point he got it because he hasn't done it since.

The reason I say is it a lack of ethics because "ethics" tells me clear as day " if you don't like something done to you, don't do that to other people" while ILE is perfectly fine with doing something to other people they don't like being done back to them, there's no idea of fairness there. How is it not frustrating to deal with someone who throws stones but tries to convince you not to breakdown their glass house because...? How do you reason in your mind " I should be allowed to do this to somebody, but they shouldn't be allowed to do it to me"? And this is just the stupid and petty example out of the bunch. Crap like this is guaranteed at least once a week if I'm not giving the silent treatment. And this guy has the audacity to say " If I'm not best man at your wedding I'm gonna be offended." Is it ILE, is this guy just a complete moron, is it 7w8? This isn't the first time I've experienced this with an ILE so idk.

Your ILE friend is an asshole and generally immature. What he’s doing is genuinely dangerous. Being an ILE or not being a feeling ego might explain where his assholeness comes from, but it’s not an excuse for it. Don’t drive with him if you can avoid it.

[Lord Pixel]

I've recognized something in this IR that could extend to other IRs and could very well already be obvious.

Because of the Fe and Te difference I notice it is strange to be around someone who extroverts what you introvert and vice versa. My ILE roommate has said to me a few times " You hold anger in. You don't talk it out." in a way where he sees that as abnormal behavior. My guess is he is confused with understanding why I Fi and not Fe. And I notice the same on Te, sometimes when we are driving in the car I will just speak out loud my thoughts on a matter, and he will be silent while I am speaking, but he will remain silent after I'm done speaking, and while he remains silent I am secretly waiting for him to share his thoughts about the things I just said, or even acknowledge what I just said, but nothing comes out, and I notice I get a little bit of anxiety thinking he must be secretly thinking what I just said is dumb or obvious lol, so this could be me reacting to perhaps him not giving me Te feedback or him Ti-ing instead of Te-ing. So yea I think recognizing someone does not extravert what you do and introvert what you do makes you aware that the person is not like you and "strange" to you, as you do not know what it is like to have their wiring and not have your own wiring. And I imagine one could expect feedback on what they extravert and privacy on what they introvert, and that also creates a "culture shock" when dealing with another psyche that does the opposite.

[Lord Pixel]

Ok currently right at this moment I feel like I have maybe cracked the code, or a code idk, to this IR. I think it's simply about learning how and what boundaries need to be set. Like letting ILE know how not to treat you and what is ok to make fun of and what is not. It's a painful process getting to that point, because you may not even know what boundaries need to be set until they are crossed, but I think once they are set there is more healthy distance between the two that makes for a smoother relation, though less exciting, but bearable. Both may not like the process either, EII constantly having to enforce boundaries and ILE constantly being pushed away.

I think the supervision plays out like a child who touches everything and someone slapping the wrist and saying "Don't touch this, don't touch that." ILE's curiosity gets drowned out and EII feels a sense of security, which is sad and kind of one sided. While if EII allows ILE to touch everything EII experiences pain/anxiety but ILE has their curiosity satisfied. I notice the one sidedness to have that kind of see-saw affect. So if the EII says not to touch major things but allows ILE to touch everything else then ILE can adjust and stay in those boundaries, and things can be more smoother though not fully satisfied.

But who knows, tomorrow this could all be done away with lol.

[Lord Pixel]

Found some peace with the ILE I know, we get a long easier now. I think it's because we don't live together anymore so aren't around each other most hours of the day and he has other people to interact with and who he can joke o, so I don't get the full force of his humor it's spread out everyone gets joked on a little and no one gets it alot, I realize now that his "trolliness" isn't what bothered me so much, but that because we were around each other so much it got to levels that felt like it happened constantly, and beyond my tolerance, but now it's at levels that are easier to deal with since I'm not the only one all the time. I also notice I'm not the only one that reacts to him the way I did when we lived together so I feel like I am not so crazy and over sensitive and don't take it as personally as much, he tends to push everyone's buttons, other people also find him a bit frustrating but like him in spite of it. I'm just glad I get the fun and intellectual side more which is why he is a good friend.

[Beautiful sky]

This

ENTp uncovered

ENTps are far from angels. Don't be fooled by their clumsiness, spaced-out behaviour and over-friendliness. Behind it all is a very cold rationalmind, motivated by a starvation for attention. So, if an ENTp is friendly and nice to you: a) they want you to like them; b) they also need something else from you. ENTps care very much what others think and feel about them. In this case the "others" in question are everyone except close friends and family, because close friends and family form a special circle. If an ENTp would open the door to you in their underwear, you are probably already inside this special circle. However, you can find yourself outside this circle as quickly as you found yourself inside it.

If you let an ENTp openly know that you do not like them, you will probably earn yourself the title of enemy #1. And beware to have them as an enemy. ENTps are great masters of tricks and deceits, often more than ESTps, and what's more they do it in a very skilful manner. ENTps are masters of arrangement and sharp psychoanalysts, able to foresee exactly how others can react to a situation. They can turn the whole world against you, if you are not careful. ENTps also have the unique ability to make a deal with their conscience. They can successfully justify almost any wrong doing, thus ensuring that they will sleep well at night.

Although ENTps are widely acclaimed for their originality, there are two sides to this coin. Just as ENFps, ENTps are very curious and process a lot of information, similar to a gold digger washing out the soil looking for gold. And ENTps know where the "gold" is. They are often well aware of some new and unusual discoveries. Such information is usually available to everyone who is interested enough to look for it, but not many people are that bothered. ENTps ideas are often based on these discoveries and for someone who didn't know that these findings are already in existence, ENTps ideas may look very radical and original.

Their true originality is in their ability for lateral combinatory thinking. ENTps are mostly interested in improvements, modernizations and innovations of something that already exists and is well known. James Dyson gave birth to a cyclone action vacuum cleaner. The cyclone effect is based on physics and has been known for centuries. Applying this effect to the household vacuum cleaner was an act of lateral thinking. Did Dyson invent something radical? He just made a better vacuum cleaner. In retrospect, it would probably be fair to say that ENTps are better classified as inventive-modernizers.

In conclusion, any type is capable of being inventive, creative, original and full of ideas. Keep your mind open about this.

[Sol]

any type is capable of being inventive, creative, original and full of ideas

in strong functions, mainly

[Beautiful sky]

That uncovered description shows a very manipulative deceptive side of ILE and one that actually makes EII’s life a living hell

ILE are clever and manipulative and try to manipulate EII

Tom an Jerry as my EII friend said was her relationship with ILE where the cat Tom is ILE and Jerry the mouse is EII

https://youtu.be/rilFfbm7j8k

[Apartamento]

I've had two close relationships with ILEs in my life, one was a guy I was seeing on and off for years and one was a housemate. With the relationship I was enamoured by the way he thought and found him really inspiring and mentally stimulating, however at the end of the day unreliable and not fit for a long term partner. With the housemate I was drawn to her initially, but couldn't trust her actions and words even though they were well meaning, however with time I grew to slowly understand her and trust her more. One common denominator was the stimulating conversations I would have with both of them, they were unlike anything I've had with any other type, where my mind felt like it came alive with new thoughts and perceptions, and it never got boring.

I still remember a conversation with the ILE guy that became a core memory, we were walking around the city after a date just people watching the crowds milling around, and he said "The world would be so much easier if everyone was the same wouldn't it, all these different shapes and sizes, we could design the same thing to fit them all" and then we joked about this for a bit, but then he said "But it wouldn't be so interesting anymore would it?" with this wistful look on his face, and I suddenly could see what he saw, and it was such a beautiful thought.