Therefore I can't be SLI.
Therefore I can't be SLI.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Wow, Zach Braff's face looks extra square in this one.
I've found that I contradict quite a few of the dichotomies. It's actually kind of reassuring to remember that Socionics isn't an absolute truth or something. (;
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
John Muir
I find the Negativist/Positivist a little hard to wrap my head around sometimes. I have noticed that i personally expect and prepare for the worst. I always expect to do bad on assignments but typically i always do fine. Its my way of motivating myself. Im also constantly thinking about what might go wrong at work and trying to figure out ways in advance that i would fix those type of problems. For example right now im thinking holy fuck ive still got 30% of my assignment to go. Lol ive done 70% of it already! Or if you asked most of my friends who was more positive me or my EII friend i would say 99% of them would say me. When you look at us looking for jobs though he just applies to millions of them, where i am constantly thinking "hmm i can see that im not going to be good at this side of this, i can forsee that i would be quite uncomfortable doing this etc".
Still though, when it comes to human potential and what the future can hold i am very very positive. Ive seen SLI's and LSI's get mighty depressed about their situations and what the future might hold, but im never like that.
I personally think that negativists are less likely to take opportunites but more likely to handle negative outcomes better.
Positivists are more likely to take up the opporunities but when shit goes wrong it can hit them hard.
I think the dichotomy's are a bit bullshit though and i doubt you could generalise that easily.
Last edited by meatburger; 04-13-2009 at 02:31 AM.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Actually, mb, what you described fits in with holographic thinking. Or, in Reinin-speak, negative/result.
SLIs are vortex: positive/result. I think the pessimism is due to being wrapped up in the little turbulences that that thinking style is all about, and not being able to see past them due to Carefree. ESEs are similar, but, being Farsighted, I think we're more circumspect, and thus our trademark optimism (actually, you have no idea how anxious and gloomy we can get sometimes... )
(Oh, and being Rational probably helps too.)
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
BTW, you look great in that avatar, song. Very alluring.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
Wait. What? Who?
I relate to this, and I think it makes sense.
I'm still a hard skeptic and generally a pessimist, though.
I don't know. I was thinking, a strong subtype might neutralize some of those preferences?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
Well, Model T subs can alter the switch levels for the Model T dichotomies.
Unrelated, though.
As for the other dichotomies, I'm not sure.
Reinin dichotomies are awesome!
The descriptions on wikisocion are not.
I don't think I can remember what Model T was. In which ways was it different from Model A?
Most of the other Reinin dichotomies are in line with me being ISTp, except for the Aristocratic/Democratic one perhaps, which I'm not really sure about.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
It's not in any way surprising for an ISTp to identify with some of the characteristics of a negativist. Introversion and Te/Fi valuing preference both have aspects of negativism to them.
I like to view Model T as complementary to Model A.
It describes (JESUS CHRIST THE Z-DOG LOOKS LIKE A ROBOT IN YOUR AVATAR) Obstinate/Yielding · Tactical/Strategic · Constructivist/Emotivist · Farsighted/Carefree.
Umm, in terms of how it describes them, I forget! But basically, in general, it's based off how each of your mental functions is engaged or switched off. Still works for intertypes (though, carries a slightly different interpretation due to condensing vital functions into the mental functions... again, not sure how).
And @ Isha: No. I got Brill to explain them to me
Wikisocion makes the error of trying to condense the descriptions of different combinations without explaining what those combinations are. So that's why it might seem slightly, well, useless.
You lie, you all have aids.
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
Because I think I lack the optimism IST types are supposed to have. Plus I tend to be overly pedantic sometimes and focus too much on the job at hand and the things I have started, rather than looking forward to get things done and move to the next thing etc. And I tend to get in very negative moods, where I get disgusted with almost everything and everyone and I start thinking how everything is going downhill and will fall apart and start blaming myself for things not working out and stuff like that... I am quite perfectionistic also.
Hm, I don't really think so. But who knows.
Last edited by Park; 04-13-2009 at 06:31 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
I look through various models (Mainly Model T and Smilexian atm) and put together the pieces that make the most sense. I'm trying to bring Smilexian ideas under the Model T umbrella.
Model T actually says nothing about Negativist/Positivist, and I haven't been able to change that yet. However, I strongly suspect that smilingeyes got it right.
Summary:
Long version:Originally Posted by Brilliand
Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Could have been a description of Extrovert (what smilingeyes calls Hot). The latter part could have been of Merry/Subjectivist, particularly when the emphasis is on "it thinks".It is inclined to scoff at limits, 'make itself known to the world', 'show itself', inclined to talk mostly about positives and possibilities, concentrates on what it thinks could, should and will happen.
The main problem of smilingeyes writings is that they don't mention the stength of the influence of the descriptors anywhere. It's not like all of the descriptive terms in socionics are equally useful in typing. Negativist/Positivist happens to be a rather weak one in my experience. It's influence gets totally overshadowed by Introvert/Extrovert and Merry/Serious when either of these differs between the options that are being distinguished. Both of those dichotomies have characteristics that are extremely similar to those of Negativism/Positivism and they are both simply easier to notice.
It's not just some random failure that makes it so that Introvert/Extrovert and Merry/Serious (aka Ti/Fe valuing vs. Te/Fi valuing) are used extensively in practical typing on this forum, whereas Negativist/Positivist rarely is*.
* talking mainly about the regulars (people who have been here for at least 2 years).
Sounds like Farsighted and Constructivist.
ESE, SLE, SEE and LSE.
Oh.
I meant you, WP.
I have been there many times, but only when i have to redo the work or...don't understand, or even when i think there is to much.
I'm a realistic person and i know being realistic can some times come with being negative.
You think that can be your excuse for being negative?
Last edited by CareLess; 04-14-2009 at 12:45 PM.
MBTI - ISTP
SOCIONICS - SLI
"Perhaps it is I who understand best why man alone laughs. He suffers so great that he had to invent laughter." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Just a personal view... I find negative-positive to be the easiest thing to observe and type and just about the most useful thing in daily use of sociocins. It just doesn't stay constant for individuals over time so only people who believe in static types have problems. Sucks to believe in that paradigm.
...
But a more fundamental truth is that one is able to observe that which one trains to observe. Each dichotomy has it's uses. The "large-cycle" dichotomies seem more useful in analyzing the long-term character of individuals whereas the "small-cycle" dichotomies are much more important in daily interaction and a deeper level of comfort is required to be able to use them constantly in the give and take of discussion. In that sense I'd say that I gain more direct benefit from the small-cycle dichotomies. But that gives rise to some interesting issues, in particular, my current greatest weakness in the typing process is in differentiating a type and it's superego.
But I'm rambling again. Please ignore everything I said.
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
Pride. Hm. Ok.Originally Posted by Director Abbie
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
Well, then at least you agree that the dichotomy isn't particularly useful in establishing the inborn type if us static-type believers happen to be right.Just a personal view... I find negative-positive to be the easiest thing to observe and type and just about the most useful thing in daily use of sociocins. It just doesn't stay constant for individuals over time so only people who believe in static types have problems. Sucks to believe in that paradigm.
Random threadjack:
Smilex, have you considered static types with transblocks?
Like, using PoLR instead of creative. That would seem to explain why I "moved" from EIE to ESE (which would be in reverse order from what I've been told about your theory o: )
Additionally, that's still compatible with intertypes... BnD trying to type me as LSE is a great example of when a Supervisee lashes back with role-creative transblock.
Actually he's your supervisOR.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
And smilex's theory is that our types mutate within temperament rings, so it is basically what you describe.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Yes.
And I'm his Supervisee. I was using Te/Si to attack.
This does not contradict anything I said in my post above.
Hm, I don't know. If I were a "realistic" person, as you say, then shouldn't I be more relaxed and simply aware of the things that are making me negative? Why would a realist worry so much about unnecessary details and be afraid of how things are going to turn out? And be continuously self-critical to no avail?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
So what have you observed in my daily online behavior in regards to this dichotomy? (If you have, at all.) I'm curious. Or do you have any opinion about my type at all?
Oh, and btw, I really liked those graphs you once made for the dichotomies course through quadras and type. Do they still exist somewhere online?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
From the above: bolded farsighted, underlined constructivist.
As for which of the fur you are...
Quadra values? I dunno. I'm not you. You seem to have typical SLI "unpredictable" (for we crazy deluded Fe-bases that is )
I actually like SLI typing for you. Constructivist is the weak link tbh.
P.S. sorry for Russianspeak, but I'm on an unfamiliar keyboard here.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari