Is the ability to feel empathy type related

[Creepy-bg]

As usual, I'm high, so excuse the garbled half finished thoughts

Empathy as I see it, is a beings ability to experience an emotional state as if they were the entity they are empathizing with.

Empathy is not the perception of that state in another, it is the experience of actually feeling an emotion as if one were that other being. The information that triggers the emotion can come through any of the functions, one can pick it up through feelings, one can sense it through body language or other physical aspects, one can come to a logical conclusion that the other is experiencing an emotion, as well as intuit their way there by putting themselves into the others "shoes" or whatnot. While the feeling function may be about perceiving and manipulating "emotions" and "feelings" in others, all of the functions are able to trigger emotional responses within a person.

When it comes to feelers, they may or may not be more comfortable, immersed, or secure in these emotional responses. It's a matter of the available emotional experiences the person has to draw on. An NT who has personal experience with love and affection will be able to experience them empathically in a truer sense that a feeler with limited or no experience who resorts to synthesising them.


I had intended to say more, along with stories of empathising with drowning bugs in my pool, but I've lost the thoughts for now. heh. maybe I'll come back to it later. Just before anyone jumps on the bug thing, it is NOT sympathy I'm talking about. I FEEL the despair and panic as if I were that bee frantically twitching to no avail, not a feeling of sorrow or worry for the bugs condition. I also have stories of empathy for killers, abusers, and other darkness. That's another post though...

[07490]

Everyone feels empathy for something/someone one time or another. It's not type related. However, clearly some types are more predisposed to feel empathy than other types and some types may be more apt to experience this empathy more strongly and more often than others.

Common sense, really.

yup.

[Ezra]

Mr. Saturn seemed empathetic to me. :tongue:

I learned something this week.

(1) Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.
(2) Assume makes an ass out of u and me.

While neither principles are particularly relevant in this case, what is relevant is that you assumed I was referring to Mr. Saturn. I was not. I was referring to one of my house mates.

[FDG]

Feeling types, on average, are better at it.

[crazedrat]

if empathy is type related then you can only empathize with particular types of experience. No, it's not type related you morons.

[marooned]

I learned something this week.

(1) Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.
(2) Assume makes an ass out of u and me.

While neither principles are particularly relevant in this case, what is relevant is that you assumed I was referring to Mr. Saturn. I was not. I was referring to one of my house mates.

No. You assumed that I assumed you were referring to Mr. Saturn! I didn't assume that at all. I mentioned him because he is leading and you said =empathy while seeming to claim that valuing extroverts aren't empathetic. Please don't assume I'm assuming that you think it's that black and white either. God, people and their assumptions.

[07490]

No. You assumed that I assumed you were referring to Mr. Saturn! I didn't assume that at all. I mentioned him because he is leading and you said =empathy while seeming to claim that valuing extroverts aren't empathetic. Please don't assume I'm assuming that you think it's that black and white either. God, people and their assumptions.

I assume that you meant that way from the start as well.

[marooned]

I assume

Oh dear.

[Creepy-]

If the ability to feel empathy was type-related, then the inability to feel empathy would also be type-related, is not the case.

I think the ability to feel empathy has more to do w general mental health than socionics type.

[meatburger]

If the ability to feel empathy was type-related, then the inability to feel empathy would also be type-related, is not the case.

I think the ability to feel empathy has more to do w general mental health than socionics type.

To be honest, i have this horrible habit of seeing almost EVERYTHING as being type related. Its probablly a sign of how fucken far gone into socionics ive become . Here is my explanation: I would say some types (ethical especially) are more prone to getting information about peoples facial features, body language signs, and noticing deviations from how people act normally for example. Surely if that is the case then they are more prone to processing this information and comming to a conclusion about what it means? I actually dont see how it is not partially type related. With that being said every single person posesses all of the functions, and in the heat of a moment like when someone is crying or really upset, all types no matter what POLR's they had would focus some of their attention to the feelings of the other people, and may experience empathy. Its possible however that what someone else said earlier, some types pick up on more subtle variations on this more often and thus experience empathy more often.

I do see the Feeling + Intuition misrepresented on this forum a lot. I tried to explain this type of thing to an LSE and he said that i clearly believe i am magical. It seems impossible for him to believe that a larger part of his brain is dedicated to processing Logical matters and a larger part of my brain has developed to processing ethical matters. I think these systems evolved because they both had some importance in early humans passing on their genes.

I would happily conceed that empathy would be somewhat related to Fe more than Fi. It begins with an observation of external queues. What function(s) then are best at intergrating the information i have no idea. I agree with Calenwen's early description the most here. I actually dont think i focus that much on how others are feeling. I work in mental health and quite often i am confronted by huge blasts of emotion. I can understand why they are upset and know they are upset but i dont think i would ever describe what i do as feeling what they feel. Im more sober, and that seems a bit foreign to me actually. It could be to do with the fact that Fe for me is a producing function. When i want to i can create a huge smile and regulate my voice tones for different occasions etc, but im not quite as prone to accepting that information.

If i walk into a party though i will instantly notice those who are socially uncomfortable first. Its like a radar going off in my brain i cannot ignore it at all.

[DirectorAbbie]

I think empathy is . I have trouble being empathetic. If someone starts crying, I usually feel awkward and leave the room.

[Creepy-male]

As an ESE: empathy? Uncontrollably so. Such is the nature of Fe. (That, and good ol' home-grown Constructivist avoidance )

But even in the lack of it, I tend to naturally want to help people.

[Tom]

I feel no feelings.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I think it's type related to a point. But that point is obscure. I think those with ego F will be more aware of it, definitely. I think that one who feels no empathy at all is that of a psychopath.

[Brilliand]

I feel no feelings.

Surely you could if you wanted to?

[anndelise]

Part of understanding what (if any) functions are involved with empathy would be to understand what is being read or empathized with. For example:
Fe - the changing (or changed) emotions of the moment, the emotional cues; context for the empathy would come from Ni/Si
Fi - the relatively long term emotions and/or values of the other person and how they pertain to a particular situation; content for the empathy would come from Ne/Se

Is it really empathy if there is only one without the other?
What meaning does the emotions/moods have without a set of values that go with them (even if those values are not consciously known)?

If a person's house burns down, yet you don't know how much (if any) value they placed on the house, nor what those values entail, how can you believe you are empathizing with them?

Those values can range from
* the amount of money invested into buying the house
* the amount of labor and sweat invested into getting the house into shape
* the memorabilia burning within the house
* the history of the house
* the people stuck in the house that are burning with it
etc etc

Part of 'putting yourself into another's shoes' is also 'putting yourself into another's values' as well as 'putting yourself into another's situation while holding those values'.

In order to fully empathize with them, we would have to know what they know, value what they value, and experience what they experience. Without that, much of what we are doing is projecting, projecting our own knowledge onto them, projecting our own values onto them, projecting our own experiences onto them. We can reduce some of that projecting by asking questions of or about the person and their values to help us get a better sense of what they are going through in a particular situation.

As for types and empathy...
I believe that the actual metabolism of information that leads to a sense of 'empathy' will differ according to type...and experiences....but no type would have a monopoly nor a major share holding on 'empathy'.

For example: A TiSe will have a difficult time empathizing with a NeFi (and vice versa). However, that same TiSe might find their 'empathy' ability more accurate or in tune with the experiences and values of a TiNe, NeTi, FeNi, SiTe, and TeSi than the other values/experiences of other types.

That being said, I also believe that empathizing requires the usage of internal functions (N & F), but not necessarily ego functions.

[anndelise]

Oh, and I feel I should add that I believe that having the information says nothing about what one does with that information.

Sometimes, the people best at empathizing are also the ones best at cutting deep BECAUSE they know exactly where to cut to hurt the most.

[intjguy]

I hate people who white lie out of empathy. It's such a God damn insult and it makes me feel really misunderstood. Empathy is stupid. I think empathy makes people weak.

Then again.. if I was better at empathy I would be able to notice peoples' evil emotions instead of being sympathetic with them. Sigh, I'm still learning to be in tune with my own "feelings".

[Morcheeba]

I think has a lot to do with empathy in the pure sense; I know at least for me I have a tendency to feel other peoples emotions, I rarely ever cry about anything for myself, it's more like i pick up other peoples energy and if they are sad, depressed or something it will be too much. Even people i don't know, I will pick up on something and have been moved to tears because I feel like i understood someones whole life story and how they feel they have been wronged somehow in this life. I know it sounds weird, but it happens to me all the time.

[Singu]

Well I think at the bottom of things Fe is about observing people and noticing changes in them, so it may or may not necessarily about empathy in the purest sense. But I do think that Fe has the propensity towards creating empathetic actions towards others, just because it spends so much time observing people. However that doesn't mean that all Fe types are going to be empathetic or un-empathetic, I don't think that has got much to do with types.

[Marie84]

NF's, in general, probably can equally pick-up on what another is feeling, but I can see a down side to how both and deal with this approach

may misinterpret feelings, seeing emotions that aren't there
can be overly sensitive and judgmental, often seeing offenses that aren't there

[Singu]

may misinterpret feelings, seeing emotions that aren't there
can be overly sensitive and judgmental, often seeing offenses that aren't there

I see Irrational types doing either of those quite often.

[717495]

I think Fi PoLR types might not be as good at empathizing in a natural sense, but still have a method of basing most of their potential emotional content on displays of external emotion and relating to the knowledge one has of these more direct expressions of emotion, may I say respectively. I think a lack of sympathy is not necessarily shown in an Fi PoLR type because they usually are able to act correctly based on elements of logical reasoning as well, ie. he's at his death bed so he must feel pretty bad, Fe: i can try to cheer him up. Empathy might be more difficult to achieve. PoLR F, emotions and their figures are not necessarily shown as void. F dominant, gauging emotion of others is not necessarily natural if one is too focused on self.

[sarinana]

I often put myself in "others shoes" just to really understand what the other person was feeling/thinking before being judgemntal about his actions... And when I was younger I would expect everybody else to do the same with me... and would get angry at those who had no emphaty... if i understand the word emphaty well.....

[Joy]

I think empathy is related to Ne, Fi, and Fe.

[Satan]

I think empathy is related to Ne, Fi, and Fe.

how the hell is empathy related to Ne

[silverchris9]

Ne is related to empathy insofar as capacity to imagine alternative states, i.e., possibilities, is related to imagining how someone else feels/is.

There's lots of ways to feel empathy. Empathy generally involves imagination (Ni recognizes that a person follows a given pattern; Ne imagines all the different situations which are possible), which is often prominent in intuitive types, and understanding/expressing emotion, which is often prominent in feeling types. Of course, there's other ways to behave empathetically: Te might tell you that it's the best way to get to a goal; Ti might make a general behavioral rule that tells you that you ought to be empathetic in situations a, b, and c. I'm not sure about Si/Se and empathy, but luckily every Se type has at least one of those other six functions in his/her ego, so...

[Joy]

Ne: beneath the surface states (among other things)

[Azeroffs]

Ne: beneath the surface states (among other things)

Ne isn't really beneath the surface state. That falls under Fe and Ni as a state is not static.

I do think Ne plays a part in empathy, but only when used with Fi. Empathy defined as relating to how someone might feel seems to be almost the same as saying Fi+Ne especially accepting-Fi/creative-Ne, hence EII the Empath. Fe+Ni would be strongly aware of the internal states of people as well though. Overall, I would say empathy is more central to Fi since empathy is known as feeling as the other feels rather than knowing someone's emotions. It is my opinion that Introverted feeling types are more empathetic than extroverted feelers, so this makes sense at least in my mind. I think sympathy is more related to Fe. I think it should be pointed out that you can be empathetic and still take a hard and apparently uncaring approach.

[Joy]

A state is not static? They have the same root word!

"Static" (Socionics) doesn't mean that something never changes.

[Joy]

I've seen Delta NF's call ESI's un-empathetic, fwiw. And it's because of their Ne PoLR.

[Creepy-male]

A state is not static? They have the same root word!

"Static" (Socionics) doesn't mean that something never changes.

In the general sense, yes. An "emotional state" implies something transient, however.

I'm pretty attuned to people's moods and when they're off, fwiw.

[Marie84]

Overall, I would say empathy is more central to Fi since empathy is known as feeling as the other feels rather than knowing someone's emotions.

Interesting, good point. Come to think of it, would be used in the process of empathy while is used in the process of sympathy

Empathy= understanding (Internal)
Sympathy= shared feeling (External)

Dictionary.com:
"empathy denotes a deep emotional understanding of another's feelings or problems, while sympathy is more general and can apply to small annoyances or setbacks
sympathy means the stimulation in a person of feelings that are similar in kind to those that affect another person; empathy means a mental or affective projection into the feelings or state of mind of another person"

[Joy]

In the general sense, yes. An "emotional state" implies something transient, however.

I'm pretty attuned to people's moods and when they're off, fwiw.

Ne focuses on internal (beneath the surface, hidden, potential) states as they're related to Ti or Fi. Fe focuses on internal changes as they're related to Si or Ni.

[Blaze]

order of ability to have empathy from highest to lowest

ethicals
Fe
Fi
sensing
Si
Se
intuition
Ne
Ni
logic:
Te
Ti

all biased from an alpha perspective. lol. we define empahty in terms of what we want other people to understand/feel about what we are having trouble with or experiencing. ergo, quadra related.

[Joy]

I think Se should be at the bottom of that list, lol.

[Azeroffs]

I've seen Delta NF's call ESI's un-empathetic, fwiw. And it's because of their Ne PoLR.

I think ESI lacks sympathy and not empathy. I would guess that an ESI knows or at least thinks they know exactly how someone feels, but doesn't focus on making the person feel better as much as they are focused with solving the problem.

"I know how you feel, but you just gotta get over it."

EII would be the same, but their understanding isn't as exact or certain, and so they are more sensitive towards the person since they feel like they can't be entirely sure about how the person is feeling. They try to empathize with every possible way the person might be feeling. Taking a hard approach might step on a nerve somewhere.

Interesting, good point. Come to think of it, would be used in the process of empathy while is used in the process of sympathy

Empathy= understanding (Internal)
Sympathy= shared feeling (External)

Dictionary.com:
"empathy denotes a deep emotional understanding of another's feelings or problems, while sympathy is more general and can apply to small annoyances or setbacks
sympathy means the stimulation in a person of feelings that are similar in kind to those that affect another person; empathy means a mental or affective projection into the feelings or state of mind of another person"

exactly

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Gilly]

Oh, so Fi is deep and Fe is shallow. Yeah, I agree with that.

[tereg]

There's a reason why the INFj is called the "Empath"