Clearing something up about IPs and EJs

[sigma]

I don't think dual is the best romantic relationship either, I view duality as the most 'comforting' relationship or something. I think it's only possible to enjoy your dual, truly, when they're away.

I guess it depends on what you see as a romantic relationship.

in "Character Strengths and Virtues", Peterson and Seligman say something like this:
“love is marked by the sharing of aid, comfort and acceptance.”

comfort and acceptance might be very high in an identity relationship too BUT a dual has the best chance at helping you how you want to be helped.

If you enjoy your dual only while he or she is away... you might be leading a very unaware life.
Paying more attention to the present moment will reveal the true effect of your dual.
Also, it is worth mentioning that paying attention to the present moment is something that can be developed with proper practice, just like a muscle. That practice is meditation.

[Creepy-male]

Also, it is worth mentioning that paying attention to the present moment is something that can be developed with proper practice, just like a muscle. That practice is dualizing with a Senser.

Fixed.

Now you know.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Can we please get off this 'present moment' kick? Tolle just wrote that crap to lure self-conscious people into buying his books.

There has been no scientific, peer-reviewed verifiable evidence that suggests living in the moment is better for everybody. I like 'The Law of Attraction' myself but like anything esoteric, it only works if it speaks to you, subjectively.

I just think what Tolle meant was this: (and it's simple advice and NOT something that one should write a book about) that you shouldn't dwell on depressing things in the past, because what's the point? What happened happened, and dwelling negativity on the past can only be detrimental to your health. But sometimes we have to look backwards in the past, at GOOD things- to find the strength to move forward. Also planning ahead, and being aware of what people are most likely going to say isn't a bad thing at all, and you'll find out- the world runs in a very safe, predictable fashion more than not, and it's not that difficult to get yourself 'caught up' with it.

Living in the moment doesn't work for everybody, I think it's poor advice to give to Ni-egos especially, since our Ni is so easy for us to use, I don't think it really weighs us down/is painful for us to entertain the past and future so easily.

Put it this way. What if, the 'here and now' reality you're currently experiencing is absolute shit? Then you'd want to dissociate yourself a bit for your own self-survival. I guess what we're arguing here, at its base core is 'fighting' or 'flighting.' But each choice is ultimately acceptable, they BOTH keep you alive. Tolle wants people to fight, because of his Se-polr he's confused about what confidence really means. I'm saying (and I give this advice to SLEs all the time) that, sometimes you get away from a predator by fleeing too. By being smart enough to run away, and idealize/imagination the situation so it played out differently.

Only fight if you know you can win. Otherwise you will be crushed by something inherently more powerful. Otherwise, run away- and dream about the past and the future until you get enough psychic energy to try again.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

If you followed Tolle's advice too much, you also wouldn't experience nostalgia. When you're nostalgic, that kind of 'aww, I miss that person' etc. you're not 'living in the moment' either.

Living in the moment doesn't bring you happiness, it doesn't give your life meaning. It's not the end of all life. All living in the moment does, is well- make you live in the moment. It doesn't mean anything more than that, because nothing exists in a vacuum not even 'living in the moment.' I wouldn't advocate that advice to everybody just because it SOUNDS good in the book. The Bible SOUNDS good too, but that doesn't mean it exists.

And you and your dual aren't in a vacuum together either. Sooo if it's more beneficial to you, overall- to NOT live in the moment, if you're in a bad situation, and your dual enough isn't enough to truly save you (They're just one person) Then it's probably best to only live in the moment when you know it's safe to do so.

Law of Attraction isn't something you should take too seriously either. Anything estoeric like that, you're meant to have fun with it - because if you are TRULY LIVING LIFE not just analyzing about what would be nice, you will have to use all sorts of philosophies and 'doctrines' depending on the situation.

[sigma]

Living in the moment doesn't bring you happiness

Actually it does. And there is scientific, peer-reviewed verifiable evidence for this.
If you want to learn more, you should study the field of Positive Psychology.
Here is a small article about Mindfulness:
” Mindfulness: A Call to Clarification " on Positive Psychology News Daily

[sigma]

If you followed Tolle's advice too much, you also wouldn't experience nostalgia. When you're nostalgic, that kind of 'aww, I miss that person' etc. you're not 'living in the moment' either.

That's not entirely true IMHO. Becoming aware that you are missing someone NOW is one thing. Lingering in a long passed time is another. Desiring a different past, present of future is further more... a different thing.

You can be here and now and miss someone without attaching yourself to the past.

[sigma]

Put it this way. What if, the 'here and now' reality you're currently experiencing is absolute shit?

Master said: "The present moment is never unbearable. It is what you think is coming in the next five minutes, or five days, weeks or months that drives you to despair."

There is a hidden power inside each human being, it stems from the undeniable freedom to choose one's attitude towards any circumstance. You have within you the power to choose to be happy in spite of the world falling apart around you.

The fact that your are unaware of this power is not proof that it doesn't exist. Oh, and since you like scientific stuff... you can study even this...
Logotherapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[redbaron]

that's why there's such a great balance between the here-and-now abilities of the SLE and the more dreamy past-future thoughts of the IEI. ahhhh.... there's no meaning without action and the action must mean something, it seeks a context.

I do find identicals to be more "romantic" in the traditional sense. I fell hard for an IEI when I was a teenager and the whole relationship was totally Romeo-Juliet-esque. I know several dual marriages that seem bored (married for anywhere between 15-25 years). So it's not like there's some absolute guarantee that if you marry your dual, you'll be happy forevermore. But I do think they're probably the most conflict-free, all other things being equal (which they never are. how can all other things possibly be equal??).

[sigma]

So it's not like there's some absolute guarantee that if you marry your dual, you'll be happy forevermore.

I agree... socionics duality is only a tendency... just as the whole idea of type is just a tendency. You can become a great version of your type or a lousy one. The same is true for relationships... they can become a mature, productive collaboration or just a saner relationship... or, in some cases, a lousy exception to the rule...

[redbaron]

Why should anyone care if they're a "lousy version of their type" though? Type is just a subjective sort of construct developed by several individuals that we happen to be employing for goodness knows what reasons. It's not something that we should feel that we have to conform to.

I think "lousy version" was meant to mean more like "unhealthy". Everyone wants to be a healthy version of themselves.