Clearing something up about IPs and EJs

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Mehhhhhhh.

What is so wrong with attachment? What's so wrong about lust? I never loved anything the way the 'spiritualists' say to love, because I want to feel passion, heat- even if it destroys a part of me, or something else- in the way. To me that is love. What is love without burning desire, etc. What you're speaking of isn't love. It's an ideal. Human love is messy. It smells. It's imperfect. It's jealous, unkind, impatient, and a bunch of other things. But I love it anyway. Love makes you do the wacky. It's not some spiritual, saintly thing, like an INFj gazing boringly out the window not living their lives. It's real, it's concrete. It's something you can lose, and because you can lose it- it makes fighting for it all the more special.

Also please take your Master-speak and shove it up your ass. =/ That kind of Buddhism talk just bores me. zzzzz

((People define love in diff ways))

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

That video was (in a nutshell) Boring, hypocritical, preachy, condescending.

Passion happens. *shrug* Might be uncomfortable. Might sting. You might do everything he says to do, that you shouldn't. But you do anyway, as long as you live, and you're a human.

It wanes and waxes and flows through the season. You won't ALWAYS feel love like that, you can feel it like he does too. But they go hand in hand. The obsession you have with another human being, can also pivot you to do the kind of love he's talking about. And you won't always be obsessed, addicted. But they're not as bad as people say. Even lust. Bad is good and good is bad. Why can't people understand that?

But he has the Delta perspective. I have the Beta.

[sigma]

What is so wrong with attachment? What's so wrong about lust? I never loved anything the way the 'spiritualists' say to love, because I want to feel passion, heat- even if it destroys a part of me, or something else- in the way. To me that is love.

There is nothing wrong with lust. I quite enjoy it myself. Lust is in the present. Lust is present, RAW present. How ever, attachment... is the root of suffering. Once you start grabbing on to things you set yourself up for suffering. That is the plain truth. You might accept this suffering and consider it a part of the deal... I don't.

[sigma]

Also please take your Master-speak and shove it up your ass. =/ That kind of Buddhism talk just bores me. zzzzz

Excuse me for not expressing myself in a way that suits you but, you know, I have my own life to live, my own song to sing, my own dance to dance. If you don't like this kind of talk, ignore it. Is not very hard, you just skip to the next reply.

[sigma]

That video was (in a nutshell) Boring, hypocritical, preachy, condescending.

That is perfectly ok. The video was not meant to please everybody. It simply expresses a point of view. A point of view that I enjoy and you don't. It is as simple as that.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Gilly]

Switch Gamma and Delta and I think you've got the right idea, ephemeros.

[Gilly]

Mehhhhhhh.

What is so wrong with attachment? What's so wrong about lust? I never loved anything the way the 'spiritualists' say to love, because I want to feel passion, heat- even if it destroys a part of me, or something else- in the way. To me that is love. What is love without burning desire, etc. What you're speaking of isn't love. It's an ideal. Human love is messy. It smells. It's imperfect. It's jealous, unkind, impatient, and a bunch of other things. But I love it anyway. Love makes you do the wacky. It's not some spiritual, saintly thing, like an INFj gazing boringly out the window not living their lives. It's real, it's concrete. It's something you can lose, and because you can lose it- it makes fighting for it all the more special.

Also please take your Master-speak and shove it up your ass. =/ That kind of Buddhism talk just bores me. zzzzz

((People define love in diff ways))

If you read about the historical Buddha instead of deferring to stoic, lighthearted projections created by our present time's embracement of Zen and what essentially amounts to glorified asceticism, you'll actually see that passion, suffering, heartfelt emotion, and attachment were part of the whole process of Gautama's coming into enlightenment. I think you would really enjoy this book I am reading by Herman Hesse called Siddhartha that talks about a man living around the same time as the Buddha. He deals less with the sort of "idealized" approach that people like the guy in that video advocate, and more with the sort of nitty-gritty of how people come to accept life on life's terms and enjoy it in spite of, or even because of, all the negativity that they experience. It's a really beautiful book and I think you would enjoy it.

[Simon Ssmall]

- Gamma minimizes, denies and ignores it. Discipline.
- Delta finds reasons to compensate it (eg revenge). Consolation.

I don't think those fit. I don't think Gamma one would fit for Delta that much either.

For beta I don't find all betas idealising suffering, actually in my real life examples they pretty much don't. They do talk about suffering and hardships but i doubt they see it as a nescesity or something of value. In this forum and in socionics articles/forums I read though it is a prevalent theme that suffering = beta.

[Gilly]

Well personally I see Beta as representing the greatest emotional polarities: the ecstasy of conquest, the search for perfection, but also the fall of dynasties, and the suffering that toughens and shapes people and prepares them for great things. Beta is about "extremism" in the broadest, most definitional sense of the word.

[Simon Ssmall]

Well personally I see Beta as representing the greatest emotional polarities: the ecstasy of conquest, the search for perfection, but also the fall of dynasties, and the suffering that toughens and shapes people and prepares them for great things. Beta is about "extremism" in the broadest, most definitional sense of the word.

I agree with that. People I know well would surely fit into emotional polarities and search for perfection (usually activity related though, when it comes to people it seems they are drawn to imperfection), extremism. What I had in mind is not to object that suffering is mostly beta theme, more that people I know don't idealise suffering.

[sigma]

For beta I don't find all betas idealising suffering, actually in my real life examples they pretty much don't.

I guess that is a misinterpretation of the fact that we can take it.
We can go through suffering not because we like it or because we idealize it... but because we see that some things are worth all the suffering... some things are more important.

Also, I think there might be also a matter of efficiency... sometimes, there are alternatives to suffering BUT suffering will get you there sooner, will get you there faster.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[sigma]

I believe you are already used to people ignoring your advises. The way you preach looks very much Alpha, btw.

Oh yes... I'm used to people ignoring me...

[Simon Ssmall]

What do you mean?

It was a reference to what Gilly said, I still don't think what you wrote about Delta or Gamma is correct. I just don't see it.

As for sigma I think he really explained well how Beta sees suffering and I agree with what he wrote if I would observe people I know.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request