Activity type differences EIE-ENFj and SLE-ESTp

[Ezra]

I've found myself unable to type certain individuals who are definitely Beta extrovert, but who are difficult to type more specifically.

How can I tell between an EIE and an SLE by observation alone (and, to some extent, what they think)?

[1981slater]

Some feedback:

EIE and SLE talkative, loud, mobile, have a sense of humor
EIE and SLE not very talkative, rigid, a little bit more serious

EIE and SLE druggy
SLE healthy

EIE and SLE slim, skinny
EIE average
SLE strong

EIE and SLE give compliments
EIE doesn't give compliments

EIE tall
SLE average
EIE , SLE short

SLE and EIE rebel, arrogant
SLE and EIE obedient, humble

SLE wide jaw, specially logical subtype
EIE baby face

[unefille]

I'm not sure -- I don't know very many of either type -- I know...two male EIEs and two male SLEs, a possible female SLE and that's it for Beta extroverts.

However, I really don't think it would ever be possible to mistake me for an SLE. Maybe this happens more when it's a male EIE or a female SLE? I can't help but wonder if gender plays a large part here.

[UDP]

N people have no 'density' to them.

If you're SLE, EIEs probably seem ........ very 'light'. Even ENTjs seem that way to me. Even fat intuitive types have a sort of 'lightness' to them. lightness ~ intuitiveness ~ not really being fully in the present/sensory world.

Se people seem much more capable of actually kicking someone's ass. That doesn't mean they are more skilled or in better shape, but, they just seem more ready and prepared to stand up to something or do, concretely, something. Particularly compared to NFs. ENFjs are more likely to talk about something or warn you about something, where as an ESTp might just punch someone or yell at them, etc.

Things like that.

[FDG]

N people have no 'density' to them.

If you're SLE, EIEs probably seem ........ very 'light'. Even ENTjs seem that way to me. Even fat intuitive types have a sort of 'lightness' to them. lightness ~ intuitiveness ~ not really being fully in the present/sensory world.

Se people seem much more capable of actually kicking someone's ass. That doesn't mean they are more skilled or in better shape, but, they just seem more ready and prepared to stand up to something or do, concretely, something. Particularly compared to NFs. ENFjs are more likely to talk about something or warn you about something, where as an ESTp might just punch someone or yell at them, etc.

Things like that.

I can bet I could kick your ass.

[1981slater]

I can bet I could kick your ass.

BTW, one of my best friends is ISTj , half Italian and half Spanish. The Italian are kinda rough! Have you ever watched this movie: (you get an Italian SLE)

[implied]

N people have no 'density' to them.

If you're SLE, EIEs probably seem ........ very 'light'. Even ENTjs seem that way to me. Even fat intuitive types have a sort of 'lightness' to them. lightness ~ intuitiveness ~ not really being fully in the present/sensory world.

i actually know what you mean. as incredibly vague and hard that is to describe, i tend to agree. SLEs generally seem more solid and less shakeable, despite being Se egos who can be explosive, too. not highly excitable perhaps, but yes, more in reality.

I've found SLE's to strike me as knowing what they are doing more than an EIE. In conversation, SLE's always seem more sure of their reasoning abilities, EIE's may be just as sure for all I know, but it takes them longer to formulate their response, like maybe worried about being caught out or something (Te PoLR and Ti seeking).

that also makes some sense to me. it's almost as if the ISTj and ESTp have the role within beta of being "sure" and "always right" and somehow this demeanor that i find beta sts sort of naturally have is assuring to a beta NF. like someone who is confident in what they are doing. i find that beta NFs get annoyed with indecisive people or people who seem unconfident in whatever they're about to do. for whatever reason.

Also, i've seen EIE's more quick to deal with things by providing or creating an emotional response rather than addressing the issue being discussed-or even just dismissing the issue being discussed.

yeah, i could see this, too.

[redbaron]

that also makes some sense to me. it's almost as if the ISTj and ESTp have the role within beta of being "sure" and "always right" and somehow this demeanor that i find beta sts sort of naturally have is assuring to a beta NF. like someone who is confident in what they are doing. i find that beta NFs get annoyed with indecisive people or people who seem unconfident in whatever they're about to do. for whatever reason.

YES.

SLEs are much more focused on the now and EIEs are more dreamy. Sometimes you can see it in their eyes. SLEs feel weighted to the ground. I only know one male EIE and one female EIE but they both seem more scattered and unsure.

[calenwen]

Jewels, that was a great description and my experiences with these two types backs up what you said.

that also makes some sense to me. it's almost as if the ISTj and ESTp have the role within beta of being "sure" and "always right" and somehow this demeanor that i find beta sts sort of naturally have is assuring to a beta NF. like someone who is confident in what they are doing. i find that beta NFs get annoyed with indecisive people or people who seem unconfident in whatever they're about to do. for whatever reason.

Yeah, the first thing I notice about Beta STs is their confidence. They seem to assimilate into different situations very easily and they're never awkward.

[07490]

N people have no 'density' to them.

If you're SLE, EIEs probably seem ........ very 'light'. Even ENTjs seem that way to me. Even fat intuitive types have a sort of 'lightness' to them. lightness ~ intuitiveness ~ not really being fully in the present/sensory world.

Se people seem much more capable of actually kicking someone's ass. That doesn't mean they are more skilled or in better shape, but, they just seem more ready and prepared to stand up to something or do, concretely, something. Particularly compared to NFs. ENFjs are more likely to talk about something or warn you about something, where as an ESTp might just punch someone or yell at them, etc.

Things like that.

I think this is very true. However, I think Intuitive who is a E-8 has a mass of bodyness to the ground. If you know what I mean, they are ready, not to be controlled by people, and the focus is always there, like they are born ready, and easily be on the offensive.

[UDP]

I think this is very true. However, I think Intuitive who is a E-8 has a mass of bodyness to the ground. If you know what I mean, they are ready, not to be controlled by people, and the focus is always there, like they are born ready, and easily be on the offensive.

Maybe, but that would be interesting. I've never come across one though. I may have, possibly an LIE E8, but I can't tell if he's 7w8 or 8w7.

It's weird, said LIE has a lot of presence and charisma and is very outgoing (he reminded me of FDG somewhat in that way), but, he still seems 'light'. Maybe it's Se HA?

[UDP]

However, I really don't think it would ever be possible to mistake me for an SLE. Maybe this happens more when it's a male EIE or a female SLE? I can't help but wonder if gender plays a large part here.

That's what I was going to ask.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I've found SLE's to strike me as knowing what they are doing more than an EIE. In conversation, SLE's always seem more sure of their reasoning abilities, EIE's may be just as sure for all I know, but it takes them longer to formulate their response, like maybe worried about being caught out or something (Te PoLR and Ti seeking).

Also, i've seen EIE's more quick to deal with things by providing or creating an emotional response rather than addressing the issue being discussed-or even just dismissing the issue being discussed.

[1981slater]

EIEs speak to groups as a TV reporter speaks to an audience, they don't expect people to answer, but to laugh. SLEs do it too, from time to time.

EIE sing (seriously) when surrounded by people. Furthermore, I know several EIEs who are small rock bands singers.

Anyway, most Spaniards are "merry", even gammas and deltas.

[jewels]

ESTps have that hunter look in their eyes. They look directly into your eyes. They sort of dominate a physical space without trying to. They size up other people without realizing they are doing it. A constant focus on who has the upper hand. They like to use examples where they write something on a piece of paper, even if what they write is just a scribble, it makes them feel they are "showing" it. Their examples are very concrete "so, if I had 50 dollars and I put half of it in a bond and then..etc." They also start sentences with "so" a lot. I also notice INFps starting sentences with "so..." Or maybe all betas do that? But they also are very nice and considerate and so can come across like feelers a lot of the time. They will mention emotions easily too, without thinking twice. Like "I can be so stubborn, and I need to instead be open minded, so now I'm going to really attack this goal and keep my eye on the prize."

ENFjs show emotion, especially worry, excitement, energy. Their energy flies all over the place when excited or angry, but they can also be super focused. They are usually either high or low, not a lot of in between (and they share their mood). They have an expression of contemplation or almost a pained look (as they worry a lot), but it isn't an S thing...it's a Ni look. They want to be grounded (despite their own emotions pulling them in five directions at once) and they want to do things the "right" way. They want to please everyone while also sticking to the rules (which is impossible right?)

They like discussing theory, but in a Ni past tense way, like how historically something has blah blah, or how all baroque artists tended to blah blah...They like to categorize what has already happened in the past and then apply that to the future basically. "Historically psychiatrists in the united states tended to blah blah, and so we see that all of them are basically blah blah, and this happens every time."

[redbaron]

Oh jewels, that was GREAT!

[07490]

ESTps have that hunter look in their eyes. They look directly into your eyes. They sort of dominate a physical space without trying to. They size up other people without realizing they are doing it. A constant focus on who has the upper hand. They like to use examples where they write something on a piece of paper, even if what they write is just a scribble, it makes them feel they are "showing" it. Their examples are very concrete "so, if I had 50 dollars and I put half of it in a bond and then..etc." They also start sentences with "so" a lot. I also notice INFps starting sentences with "so..." Or maybe all betas do that? But they also are very nice and considerate and so can come across like feelers a lot of the time. They will mention emotions easily too, without thinking twice. Like "I can be so stubborn, and I need to instead be open minded, so now I'm going to really attack this goal and keep my eye on the prize."

ENFjs show emotion, especially worry, excitement, energy. Their energy flies all over the place when excited or angry, but they can also be super focused. They are usually either high or low, not a lot of in between (and they share their mood). They have an expression of contemplation or almost a pained look (as they worry a lot), but it isn't an S thing...it's a Ni look. They want to be grounded (despite their own emotions pulling them in five directions at once) and they want to do things the "right" way. They want to please everyone while also sticking to the rules (which is impossible right?)

They like discussing theory, but in a Ni past tense way, like how historically something has blah blah, or how all baroque artists tended to blah blah...They like to categorize what has already happened in the past and then apply that to the future basically. "Historically psychiatrists in the united states tended to blah blah, and so we see that all of them are basically blah blah, and this happens every time."

Jewel, you know both types very very well. I could not describe myself anymore better than you did about me. Also, on this subject, I think when an EIE becomes super focus they can look like and be seen like an SLE but not for long. SLE rarely looks like an EIE unless when their hidden agenda is at its highest they can laugh and joke alot, totally ignoring their present dominance, I see that in alot of SLE female. But there is a clear differences if you spend longer duration of time with both type.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

A better question would be to ask 'I need to find something I'm actually good at that can make me money and stop worrying over shit that doesn't matter.'

There a trillion ways to progress with your life. Socionics isn't really one of them.

(Yeah I'm going to keep nagging everybody about this until I get banned on Saturday)

You are disconnecting yourself from others. It doesn't matter who is an eie or sle - it simply matters if you can see that person accurately without labels. So you can observe others. But sometimes there are people that watch the ones that watch others.

[redbaron]

great pic, Allie. It illustrates the difference in their looks quite nicely! My aunt is EIE and has that same look. So funny.

And I think FDG is probably LIE>SEE.

[Ezra]

I forgot to ask earlier, but could everyone not quote the same photo over and over? Thanks.

Apologies. I know they're gone now, but I'll keep it in mind in the future.

who else agree with this?

Gammas: Expat, Isha, niffweed17 for definite, probably more. Other quadras I don't know about.

What type is he?

Most likely LSI. His relationship with ****** was almost certainly duality.

[strrrng]

N people have no 'density' to them.

If you're SLE, EIEs probably seem ........ very 'light'. Even ENTjs seem that way to me. Even fat intuitive types have a sort of 'lightness' to them. lightness ~ intuitiveness ~ not really being fully in the present/sensory world.

Se people seem much more capable of actually kicking someone's ass. That doesn't mean they are more skilled or in better shape, but, they just seem more ready and prepared to stand up to something or do, concretely, something. Particularly compared to NFs. ENFjs are more likely to talk about something or warn you about something, where as an ESTp might just punch someone or yell at them, etc.

Things like that.

This doesn't exactly buttress your self-typing

But I do agree with the general idea of lightness vs. groundedness.

I can bet I could kick your ass.

bahahaha

that also makes some sense to me. it's almost as if the ISTj and ESTp have the role within beta of being "sure" and "always right" and somehow this demeanor that i find beta sts sort of naturally have is assuring to a beta NF. like someone who is confident in what they are doing. i find that beta NFs get annoyed with indecisive people or people who seem unconfident in whatever they're about to do. for whatever reason.

Yes, exactly. I think this is essentially because we expect others to behave in a manner that is complementary to us -- what we are "searching for." So, everyone is basically compared to that benchmark (duality). This is exactly how I am; that lack of certainty that comes from the SeTi mindset (specifically in my delta NF infested family) annoys the hell out of me. I am already uncertain and adaptable enough, as it is; if someone else is like me, it's going to be aggravating.

...

They like discussing theory, but in a Ni past tense way, like how historically something has blah blah, or how all baroque artists tended to blah blah...They like to categorize what has already happened in the past and then apply that to the future basically. "Historically psychiatrists in the united states tended to blah blah, and so we see that all of them are basically blah blah, and this happens every time."

Everything of what you wrote was spot on, but I wanted to quote this part because of how surprisingly accurate it was, given its specificity. I know that with myself, literally every idea or discussion topic will take a historical turn -- but not in the sense of dry factual bullshit, more like a, "this has always happened with people" type of thing. It seems that a penchant for that sort of humanistic approach to history is fairly pervasive in beta NFs; I know I do it unwittingly, and have observed a few other beta NF friends who do as well. It works well with the quadra roles -- us being the sort of emotionally-charged visionaries or whateverthefuck. The stereotype is dumb, but it makes sense when viewed in the light of looking at abstract processes and their latent effects throughout time.

[jewels]

Everything of what you wrote was spot on, but I wanted to quote this part because of how surprisingly accurate it was, given its specificity. I know that with myself, literally every idea or discussion topic will take a historical turn -- but not in the sense of dry factual bullshit, more like a, "this has always happened with people" type of thing. It seems that a penchant for that sort of humanistic approach to history is fairly pervasive in beta NFs; I know I do it unwittingly, and have observed a few other beta NF friends who do as well. It works well with the quadra roles -- us being the sort of emotionally-charged visionaries or whateverthefuck. The stereotype is dumb, but it makes sense when viewed in the light of looking at abstract processes and their latent effects throughout time.

Yeah this has really stood out to me in both INFps and ENFjs (I notice it most in those types) because Ni is sooo different from Ne that I really notice it. I think sometimes it's harder to see this stuff in your own quadra because it's such a core part of how things work for you. But Ni sorta conflicts w/ my Ne ideas, so I notice the structure of it more.

Would be interesting to hear an Ni person's take on Ne, or Si, etc. To an Ni person, it probably sounds like "forget all that has happened before...I just had this crazy idea and let's TRY it because why the hell not?!!" LOL. But of course to me, I respond to Ni with "who cares what came before -- the historic factors may not apply right now (or to the future) because other factors might be more powerful, so let's look at what's going on and will be going on, not what has happened before" -- and that is something that Ni types of course argue me to the death on...

[eliza]

.......

[Variant]

SLE's can sometimes be douchebags and not know what they said that irritated or hurt people, i'll see if i can give examples off the top of my head. If you guys are having a conversation where it involved giving opinions-say one person gives an opinion where it was like illogical but still applied to the situation. The SLE might* say, "that's stupid, how does that even make sense logically?". The reciever will get offended, "wow that was very mean" -SLE: "What? I just said it doesn't make sense..." (confused). (Or they're not aware that the way they respond (attitude, loudness) can offend people)

Another thing is that they won't hold back in telling you do to something + they're impulsive. (Unless they're Ti-sub). *I could be wrong though*

[Morcheeba]

SLE's can sometimes be douchebags and not know what they said that irritated or hurt people, i'll see if i can give examples off the top of my head. If you guys are having a conversation where it involved giving opinions-say one person gives an opinion where it was like illogical but still applied to the situation. The SLE might* say, "that's stupid, how does that even make sense logically?". The reciever will get offended, "wow that was very mean" -SLE: "What? I just said it doesn't make sense..." (confused). (Or they're not aware that the way they respond (attitude, loudness) can offend people)

Another thing is that they won't hold back in telling you do to something + they're impulsive. (Unless they're Ti-sub). *I could be wrong though*

I can see how it would be difficult to tell the difference between activity partners, though I think the example you gave wasn't very good because I have said things along those lines, (but I think anyone of any type could say that if someone said something illogical.)
As for telling the difference between an EIE and SLE, well first of all, both have something the other one wants, (HA). So, an EIE could say something insensitive to get a rise out of someone, (using a mix of and ), and vice versa. The difference is that if you call the SLE out on this, they might get embarrassed or look confused, while the EIE would keep their composure and act like they knew what they were doing all along.
Also, I thought you were a 4w5, what made you decide on 5w4?

[Variant]

I thought* i was 4w5-but that was probably because i was depressed while taking it lol. I don't like to express my emotions to people unlike the 4w5, I like to repress them and act all ignorant to people. (Unless it's online i don't give a shit). But i'm still deciding between 4w5 and 5w4, so far 5w4 is 'winning', any assitance is appreciated.

I thought my example was satisfactory, dud atleast i said that SLE's were confused when that person said it was mean (lets just say they were actually offended)-just that i didn't mention anything on EIE's . I should have elaborated, but you've done that for me-it's all goodd

[Aleksei]

SLEs are more direct and assertive, more spontaneous (generally speaking at least; this is somewhat subtype-related), less tactful and less skilled at maneuvering social situations (they can unintentionally be assholes -- when an EIE does it, it's fully intended).

[Morcheeba]

I thought* i was 4w5-but that was probably because i was depressed while taking it lol. I don't like to express my emotions to people unlike the 4w5, I like to repress them and act all ignorant to people. (Unless it's online i don't give a shit). But i'm still deciding between 4w5 and 5w4, so far 5w4 is 'winning', any assitance is appreciated.

I thought my example was satisfactory, dud atleast i said that SLE's were confused when that person said it was mean (lets just say they were actually offended)-just that i didn't mention anything on EIE's . I should have elaborated, but you've done that for me-it's all goodd

I don't know how old you are but I've been an ENFj for almost 30 yrs. now (lol) so I know the kind of defense mechanisms we use. You seem to be an emotional person, but since we have strong we sometimes default into this function when we are stressed and/or depressed. I was the same as you, I would be much happier repressing my feelings towards someone else rather than hurting them. I was like that for a long time, and it took even longer for me to balance and . I think beta NF's in particular are more likely to display passive aggressive behavior than any other type.

[NewBorn STAR]

Victim. The one being punched. The one punching is the agressor

[Morcheeba]

I think it's definitely a common problem, that's why so many people type others as "[quadra] in/extrovert". I find it particularly difficult with ethical males and logical females...

One thing I find useful is victim vs. aggressor - e.g. does she tend to chase aggresssively/assertively after people she's interested in (probably SLE), or does she kind of put on a show that attempts to attract the target (probably EIE)?

I didn't think of the victim/aggressor idea, that's a good one too.

[krieger]

the question is what makes you think they are similar in the first place. the only thing they share is something as vague and unobservable as "values".

[NewBorn STAR]

the question is what makes you think they are similar in the first place. the only thing they share is something as vague and unobservable as "values".

You would benefit from actual interaction with real people.

[redbaron]

the asking/declaring is a very obvious give-away for me. SLEs almost never ask. In fact, when SLE wants to get together, it's always "I'm doing X." as if I'm supposed to jump in and invite myself. or "It's a nice day for X" meaning that I'm supposed to suggest we get together. Or in some cases "I was thinking about asking you to do X" They make statements, declarations. And if they do ask questions, it means they really want the information.

SLE's emotional state appears at times hidden, although they do come out and say exactly what they think, they often do not know themselves how they FEEL.

[redbaron]

You could also try typing by hidden agenda, which I find useful in these sorts of situations. Is she a natural at shifting the focus to herself in group situations (EIE), or does she seems to put in a conscious effort to make other people respond well to her (SLE)? Is she confused or upset when you mention that someone doesn't like her very much (SLE)? Does she effortlessly end up in a position of power and respect (SLE), or does she scheme her way there somewhat obsessively (EIE)? The differences are quite subtle, but it works for me.

yes, hidden agenda is a great way too. SLEs sooo want to be loved!

[Absurd]

how does one tell eie and sle apart!?

EIEs wear shoes, SLEs don't.

[mu4]

One big difference in how to deal with EIE's and SLE's.

EIE responds to bluntness and frankness
SLE responds to kindness and charm

[Aleksei]

One big difference in how to deal with EIE's and SLE's.

EIE responds to bluntness and frankness
SLE responds to kindness and charm

All Betas respond well to both. I've not yet met an SLE who didn't love my blunt, no-bullshit approach to debate.

[Clumsy]

This example might be bad for several reasons:

1. it involves fictional characters,
2. both characters are men,
3. I may have mistyped them, and
4. their characters are over exaggerated interpretations of personalities for the purposes of fiction/storytelling (but this reason might also be good because it makes it easier to see the difference).

Anyways:

If you've seen the movie Thor (or if you ever get a chance to), I think it provides a very good example of the difference. The character of Thor is (IMO) a very clear SLE, and Loki (his brother) I believe is an EIE. I don't know how representative the film depictions were of the comicbook characters' personalities because I've never read them.

In the film, Thor (SLE) is pretty reckless and has a very carefree, "do first, think later" attitude. He doesn't understand the perspective of others or their concerns (lack of Fi) and makes a lot of bad mistakes for the ultimate goal of gaining admiration and love for himself (Hidden Agenda). Only after making said mistakes does he painfully realize the gravity of what he has done.


Loki (EIE) is much more calculated and playful in the trickster sense. He stirs the emotional tide and thoughts of the people around him, then sits back and watches, waiting to see how others will react until making his next move. He provokes and sometimes deceives others simply to see what they will do. Here again the Hidden Agenda is obvious. Loki seeks to control and influence others and the situation (to gain a wealth of power over others) for what he feels is just for everyone, and his character is constantly trying to do this. When someone questions his leadership, Loki defends himself by saying he did what was the best for all.

I think their nicknames or whatever, Thor the God of Thunder, and Loki the God of Mischief, further emphasize the difference. One yields power in a more brute force, aggressive sense, the other yields power in a more subtle, mentally manipulative sense. One charges forward and acts without hesitation or fear, while the other watches and waits patiently for the opportune moment. Again, these are very overly exaggerated portrayals of the types.

Sorry if this doesn't really help in any concrete/useful way.

[Galen]

ESTps look like this:



ENFjs look like this:





it's just that easy

!!!

[Variant]

I watched thor recently, was pretty good. First hand impression i thought the actor did an ok job portraying SLE, and Loki as an EIE well. I wonder if they'll have a sequel to it ?