Non-Beta Dictators?

[Ezra]

Seems like every dictator is Beta. I challenge someone to come up with a non-Beta dictator.

For extra points, think of a non-Ni/Se dictator (I'd be really interested to see what people come up with for this one).

[Park]

Was was the name of that SLE-looking SLI guy Expat used to talk about?

[Ezra]

Augustus
Pinochet
Franco
Salazar (maybe)

What types do you think they were?

A number of non-betas who inherited kingdoms and empires and ruled with an iron fist cause that was how to do it back then.

Such as...?

[Trevor]

Fidel Castro. ESFj(according to Talanov).

[Ezra]

Fidel Castro. ESFj(according to Talanov).

From what I know of Castro, I sincerely doubt it.

[Tom]

How about the US government? Seems very Delta to me, which, of course, means that they need to get out of my quadra.

But, of course, by "dictator", I'm sure you mean "the head of some coercive organization who didn't have to ask the rest of the organization permission before he did something".

I'll agree with jxrtes on Augustus, I think (though my knowledge of him is a bit limited).

[Ezra]

Augustus is clearly LIE.

Yeah, I think most would agree with that.

Such as 3/4 of anyone who's ever inherited a kingdom or an empire from their parents, pending the level of veracity of the equal distribution assumption. A kingdom is a sort of dictatorship depending on who you ask.

Okay, but I mean dictatorship in the general sense of the term.

But, of course, by "dictator", I'm sure you mean "the head of some coercive organization who didn't have to ask the rest of the organization permission before he did something".

Essentially, yes. Although, ****** initially used legit means. It was only when he gained power that he began to close off the very entity/entities that secured him power in the first place.

[Tom]

Essentially, yes. Although, ****** initially used legit means. It was only when he gained power that he began to close off the very entity/entities that secured him power in the first place.

Any sort of government cannot be morally, and only maintains it's power through coercive means, which is "illegitimate" if you want to colloquially use "legitimate" as "with correctness", rather than "according to law", which is entirely arbitrary.

[Ezra]

Any sort of government cannot be morally, and only maintains it's power through coercive means, which is "illegitimate" if you want to colloquially use "legitimate" as "with correctness", rather than "according to law", which is entirely arbitrary.

What about the evolution of intersubjective thought about the state - it wasn't a case of "yesterday we were free, and now the state has stepped in and taken our freedom by force". There are social contracts; people agree to exchanges, and those who cannot protect themselves offer something in return for protection.

Your question is too general. Plenty of kings and emperors of all types wielded extreme powers over the lives of others by modern standards. If you can't classify them as dictators, then you'd have to give me more specific criteria.

I think you mean people who were ruthless in securing more power for themselves and wielded it not necessarily to the benefit of their subjects.

In that case, one example is King Leopold II of Belgium (ILE) under whose sole administration the Congo was brutally colonized and stripped of its resources. Another is Robespierre (LII) who began the reign of terror in France. Neither of these necessarily needed to have had a very combattive or aquisitive beta ST mindset, but their actions and beliefs resulted in some form of dictatorship, slaughter or oppression.

Others: Francisco Franco was an extremely cruel, brutal and underhanded leader. Expat types both him and Pinochet as SEI, I've got to confirm this though.

Khruschev is universally typed SEI by professional socionists. Julius Caesar and Brezhnev (IIRC) as SEE.

Fair point. I s'pose the question is too open-ended.

[implied]

Augustus
Pinochet
Franco
Salazar (maybe)

A number of non-betas who inherited kingdoms and empires and ruled with an iron fist cause that was how to do it back then.

franco isfp?

[1981slater]

franco isfp?

If so, I'm Donald Duck.

ISFj , no doubt.

Base he made good deals with the American government, in spite of the background. Conservative views, supported religion.

Creative ask the old Spanish people.

Intertype relations: in WWII, Spain and Germany were about to make an alliance, but all this fell apart when ****** (ENTp) met Franco (ISFj). All the Spaniards know that ****** said Franco was "unpleasant" and he didn't want to see him again.

[implied]

If so, I'm Donald Duck.

ISFj , no doubt.

Base he made good deals with the American government, in spite of the background. Conservative views, supported religion.

Creative ask the old Spanish people.

Intertype relations: in WWII, Spain and Germany were about to make an alliance, but all this fell apart when ****** (ENTp) met Franco (ISFj). All the Spaniards know that ****** said Franco was "unpleasant" and he didn't want to see him again.

what are you interpreting as cre-Se?

[1981slater]

what are you interpreting as cre-Se?

To me, creative is about going to the gym, being ruthless, killing people to accomplish your goals...that sort of thing.

Por cierto, no sé si estás al tanto de lo que pasa por aquí por la península ibérica o si te importa o no. Hace unos meses echaron por la tele este documental sobre una hipotética victoria de la república en la guerra civil. Si te gusta culturizarte...

[ragnar]

I challenge someone to come up with a non-Beta dictator.

While some dictators worked methodically for much of their life to attain the position, others kind of "stumbled" into becoming dictators, or were more or less appointed by others.

Among those accidental dictators I'd put Oliver Cromwell, who I guess-type as a gamma.

Also, many of the old Eastern European Communist dictators seem to have been put in place by the Russian Communist Party. The selection process I guess would probably not favor Betas more than Communist minions from other quadras.

[ArchonAlarion]

Osama bin laden is INFp

[kensi]

Seems like every dictator is Beta. I challenge someone to come up with a non-Beta dictator.

For extra points, think of a non-Ni/Se dictator (I'd be really interested to see what people come up with for this one).

there seems to be a lot of misconception about this very thing on the forum. I dont see what beta in itself has to do with dictatorship.

[Ezra]

i am basically sold on ****** as Ni ENFj 6w5 so/sx

After having read about him in Rommel's biography, I'm thinking 3w4. He's one or the other though.

there seems to be a lot of misconception about this very thing on the forum. I dont see what beta in itself has to do with dictatorship.