that thread actually makes him sound "cold" to me, too, and is probably an accurate representation of how i wouldn't want to be described or how i would imagine my dual CANNOT be. i would describe such a person as very cold and quite possibly one of the most frightening people i could imagine trusting, if that makes any sense. it chills me, almost. the description of him lavishing affection on strangers and then being cold with his closer ones is just creepy.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
same here. and i've also lavished affection on pet birds (and pet dogs) that i would not give a shit to do with someone i don't really know. but i have definitely seen that "fake" affection towards strangers that does not extend past that or isn't "real." and i do associate that with as it's something meant to please the public/group.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
I can identify with the bit about Clinton being affectionate towards strangers and not as much so towards intimates. To me, being "nice" is a tool to be used; if I'm not all happy and giddy around someone, it's just me being genuine, not feeling the need to be forced or fake. I think I could be described as cold by people who know me well, but I'm certainly not indifferent to them: I'm very supportive of my friends and family, always there when they need me, never unnecessarily harsh, and I do my best to make sure they're in good spirits. However I find it all but impossible to be super cheery with them; it feels like I would be lying to them, that it would be insincere and somehow in violation of mutual trust, if I were to be "overly nice" in terms of smiling, saying nice things, being gregarious, etc with someone I love and trust. It would feel wrong and forced; it would be a lie. I have no qualms about lying to strangers or even acquaintances, but to my friends, no way, can't do it.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
That's fair. Although I favor people I like, and definitely favor people I consider friends/family, I can see these things as being manifestations of Ti/Fi DS.
For example, with my book, I have sent pages of it to various people. My sister, probably SEI, is unfailingly supportive and positive, which bugs the SHIT out of me; it makes me feel like she's just being nice to me to encourage me to keep writing. My parents, Delta rationals, are honest with their criticism, but cast everything in a mildly positive light. This I appreciate more, but it often still feels like they're not telling the whole story, which makes me slightly paranoid. My LSI roommate, on the other hand, is totally blunt with what he thinks about my writing, isn't afraid to point out petty things like grammatical errors that have been made for stylistic purposes, will honestly tell me things like, "Honestly this is crap, you need to just take this out." And that's what I need, for one because I want to know where I stand, and to correct errors if I did, indeed make them, and for two because I like to be challenged; it forces me to rise to the occassion, which brings out the best in me. The first time I pitched him my story line, he said, "Honestly, I don't think anyone would read this. It sounds boring." I wasn't offended at all, because I knew he was just giving his opinion, but what it did was force me to reconsider my storyline; I had been set on keeping it exactly as it was at that time, even after some light suggestions by my sister, but after hearing his feedback, I went back and rethought the entire second half of the book, and now I have added a whole new part to the story that is pretty much the main focus of the book. It's like, he understands that I want my writing to be good; I'm not writing a book just for fun, because I have these nifty pictures in my head that I want to put on paper, but because I want to write a good book, to do something that I can be proud of.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
well like, i have no real problems saying to a bum on the street that i have no more cigarettes, although sometimes i might actually have them. hah. but not like i have done that all the time. just sometimes i feel as though i've reached my bum-cigarette quota for the day. i DON'T want my loved ones to feel like they have to be fake around me. because i am pretty much incapable of being fake around them, or forcing myself into a good mood for their benefit. i'm saying that realizing that the kindness towards strangers is simply an act is annoying as well and seems like a lie. my first tendency to imagine that people aren't lying to me and speculate optimistically on someone else's motives. or at least not immediately paint them as evil-doers.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I don't know that it's that strongly related to Fe. From what I have gathered about Clinton, there may be a sociopathic personality thing going on (or at least a narcissistic lack of empathy, to a degree). Given that he is Fe-ENFj, his personality will only amplify these tendencies, as will his profession. Now, I do agree that Fe ego types—more so beta NFs—have a stronger propensity for, or easier time with, adapting to the public emotional sphere to 'get what they want.' But I don't see how this necessitates a callousness towards intimates; I can say this doesn't hold true for me. Although I agree with Gilly, that I don't need to be "fake" around family and close friends, because it would feel deceptive and inane. And I may be more likely to "push my personal vision onto them," but it is only because I care about them more.Originally Posted by implied
I believed you mentioned an ENFp who had a tendency similar to this last night?
ENFj parents (especially Ni subs) can seem cold and pushy, even if they care. It's all part of the beta attitude. Si quadras tend to find it cold, while the Se valuers more often than not, appreciate that indifferent 'push.' I don't want to be supported or praised; just tell me what I'm doing is shit and that I need to step up, and I will perform—no added baggage, I suppose.
I can see the loftily sociable attitude of ENFjs highly nettling a type like ISTp, who has no use for "useless visions," and is already fixated on finding strong internal relationships that don't depend on, or pertain to, any sort of effusive emotional displays, 'games,' etc.
edit: lol Gilly, I didn't know/forgot your parents were delta as well. And the story goes on...
4w3-5w6-8w7
Last edited by UDP; 01-30-2009 at 02:02 AM.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
i think you're being a little too INTj right now
I tend to agree. There's a quiet amiability I usually use to 'get by' with strangers. The main issue is, I don't care for small talk and all that stuff, but I'm usually not feeling callous enough to simply ignore people. Obviously there are exceptions, but I guess the Fe gets somewhat turned on when a person comes around, and I just naturally react to what I see as the latent activity between us; it can be fun, in a monotonous way. Other than that, I don't bother much. I guess it says something about you if I extend myself past simple reactions. With family, the guard is down more, but sometimes I will act "ok" if I'm in a bad mood, simply to efficiently get through socializing. But I don't feel the need to ever do it in the same way as I do around strangers.
lmaoOriginally Posted by ifmd95
4w3-5w6-8w7
Well, I wouldn't say I act happy and giddy, necessarily; I do sometimes, but it's more like, I am polite and I smile and pay attention to the way I come across. However being outwardly happy is definitely something I have a hard time doing around family or good friends.
[quote]It's kind of like a shell or shield I subconsciously uphold upon myself. It's almost impossible not act that way with strangers, yet at the same time it's extreamly impossible to act that way around the people I'm close to.
Yes, exactly. Whether I am being polite/happy (which I detest and only do with customers at work), casual/easygoing or formal/business-like, it's a mask, a mask which I automatically wear when with strangers, that changes/disintegrates slowly over time, and eventually, after a long, long time, there is no mask.
A line clearly written by a Beta NF, imo:
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.
- In the Flesh by Pink Floyd
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
"i'm really serious about minute interpersonal signals"-everyone on internet
asd
Implied = LII
too awesome to be gamma.
Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .
lol
If you're not Gamma THEN WORRRRT ARRRRE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!????????????????????????????
maria is my dual <3
I still think it is possible you are IEI Maria.
sociotype.com
LII
sociotype.com
LII
You're Maria.
You are not a type. You are a person with many complex layers. You are many different things, to many different people. You play the hero, the villain, the standby- depending on who is writing the story. But a type, one thing- you are not. Things are just not that simple.
You can't really spend a lifetime analyzing yourself completely. We all get ourselves in glimpses. Who you are dissolves. Identity is shifting, changing, mendy and bendy. We think there is a core some sort of 'true self' or spirit but how can that really be? Different circumstances, such subtle in-grainy precise circumstances that only YOU will live, will bring out different parts of you that are locked.