Experiences with Superego Relations

[redbaron]

I know I've talked about this enough, but since the topic keeps coming up & it's my life, I'll share some more. SLE's ex was IEE. They we're married for 8 years before they split. They loved & admired one another but at the same time shared different values & fought constantly. Throughout their whole marriage the topic of divorce was the norm, but the ENFp was the one who was always determined to keep them together (Fi? ).

After the SLE met me (at that point he had started openly dating other people as if he were single, and she knew this ) something clicked. We fell in love even though we knew we shouldn't have. He realized that things flowed a lot more naturally with us & being together was much easier. He then realized want he really wanted in a relationship & what he was really compatible with. At first I REALLY wasn't down with it. I wanted him to go back to his marriage & even tried to drop him a few times. In his eyes that wasn't happening. he separated from his wife & continued to be persistent . Blah. He's divorced now, but I don't blame myself. They had no kids. Better now than later. It would have been worse years down the road.


Anyway, suprego can be great & you can really admire the person, but it will be a lot of work, and probably not worth it in the end.

Sorry for the crappy post. Sending it from my phone

Better to split before kids enter the picture, for sure. my friends who are married (INFj and ISTj) have twins and they do admire and respect each other. But she told me they fight a lot and they simply don't expect that much from marriage, other than complete commitment. Don't get me wrong--they love each other. But they get a large portion of their needs met elsewhere, from their careers and other friends. It's a different *sort* of marriage than some people want. So, while they've made it work for them, it's a different flavor.

[jughead]

Jonathon Ross hits the Ti polr.

A full interview:
Pt1
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...d9-cRQ&cad=rja
Pt2
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...qIpBtQ&cad=rja

[squirreltual]

Are the days really always numbered as far as socionics is concerned?

How much can this be assuaged by common interests, tolerance and healthy self esteem/independence/blahblah?

Anecdotes welcome.

[redbaron]

Well... I believe that one of my best friends from college is married to her superego. He is ISTj and she is INFj. They have big arguments. They hash out a lot of things, and both are stubborn. But, they do share the same religious/moral values and worldview, had a very old-fashioned courtship which both found romantic, and they truly love each other. It's not easy, it's not a walk in the park, but they each have their own careers, they're both realists, and they make it work. It's a "nose to the grindstone" marriage, if you will. (and I'm not saying that's bad, it's just a particular kind of marriage)

[Darkworker]

Are the days really always numbered as far as socionics is concerned?

How much can this be assuaged by common interests, tolerance and healthy self esteem/independence/blahblah?

Anecdotes welcome.

Yes, if you practice tolerance, have high self-esteem etc... You are going to get along. But it will never be a fulfilling relationship. You are missing out so much by being in that relationship compared to being in a relationship with your dual.
It's holding you back. When you are in a relationship with your dual, you are free to actualize your Ego block. In a relationship with superego, the partner is not supportive of your ego block, and constantly irritates you with irrevelant information coming from their ego block(your superego), and therefore holding you back in life.

[krieger]

made a thread about it earlier:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rounded-couple

there may well be strong advantages to this relation that aren't often recognized. it is a balancing relation both in the area of strengths and in that of values, thus potentially leading to the broadest extent of personal growth under one's partner's influence, while still being relatively viable in contrast to the Conflict relation.

of course the many downsides are well known and need little further emphasis.

[ashlesha]

i love LIIs, i think. granted i pretty much just know the internet ones except for my dad.
(and people i've described my dad to say he doesn't sound LII. but hitta reminds me of him.)

if i put any faith in socionics to predict relationships it would make me sad.

i remember descriptions saying something about respecting their strengths? but it feels less formal than just that.

[Absurd]

Providing intertype relations were written by Alpha NTs (LII/ILE), it looks like they didn't know what were they doing nor did.

[ashlesha]

(it would be cool to hear about esi-lii specifically but that would probably get even less replies than this played out question)

[krieger]

i feel a need to keep a distance from most esi, but there are notable exception. i find that relations with them get "intimate" quickly in a way that is not comfortable nor longer term rewarding without a lot of frustration. but like i said, exceptions...

picture yourself having a person near you that you feel similar to but this person has the tendency to, every time you think of something awkward that you would preferably hide, draw attention to exactly that thing. that is typically my experience with superego. there is relief from having the "thing" spelled out, and a certain intimacy arising from the "mind reader effect" but also frustration. it can help you develop a side to you you're avoiding to staying your comfort zone, but the development comes at a price... bah

ps. i did write a thread once about how superego can theoretically be viewed as the best relation from a self-development point of view and i still support much of the conclusions in that thread....

[mu4]

Superegos generally like each other, especially early on, same temperament, similar thinking styles, what's not to like.

One of those things I've found very interesting is that temperament conflicts are much more visible than information preference conflicts. I have tons of problems with Ij's of all sorts regardless of quadra, while I have very little problem initially with Ip's and Ep's. The rationality and irrationality divide is very prominent in intertype relations. There are no really good conflicting temperament relations. They are supervision, conflict and mirror.

[Absurd]

Superegos generally like each other, especially early on, same temperament, similar thinking styles, what's not to like.

What is generally?

I hope you're aware you're going against the "Socionics canon" you preach for, you smart person (lul).

Superego is akin to conflict.

[mu4]

What is generally?

I hope you're aware you're going against the "Socionics canon" you preach for, you smart person (lul).

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rego-relations

[Absurd]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rego-relations

Cool emoticon, I want one as well, not.

Conflict:

Partners notice the slightest flaws in each other and often exaggerate them. They often argue, disagree, don't listen to one another, don't accept each other's arguments. Even jokes and compliments are perceived incorrectly. All of this does not contribute to development of sensitivity, mutual attention to the needs and interests of another. Over time, the tension that originates in exacerbating conflicts and constant desire to move away, causes resentment.

Superego:

However, at closer distances these relations develop into rivalry between the partners. Each one tries to impress the other, to show him his own importance or priority in some area. Difficulties in understanding lead to loss of trust and warm feelings for each other as well as hope that at some point you will be understood correctly. Partners are thus forced to try to readjust to one another, to constantly seek common ground, but the balance in these relations is achieved only for a short period of time. Partners react to each other very sharply and overly emotionally and can unintentionally cause each other pain

Now go back your cave, intellectual ILE (lul).

Plus

Add

Ej

Temperament

To your list

Of not gettting fine with

Alongside Ij.

[mu4]

blah blah

...especially early on...

[glam]

i think it's true you can like/admire your super-ego - as long as you keep a safe distance from them. imo you can't really be very close to your super-ego and gain much benefit from it.

i've had a good amount of experience with many SLIs (family and friendship-wise), and i've found that when trying to close the psychological/emotional distance, it generally turns very ugly, very quickly. also it is difficult to constructively work together and solve problems. both perceive the other as not being very helpful - even a hindrance. it can get to the point where every little thing they say seems pointless and unhelpful, which are met with dismissive comments by the other. eventually there is also the added stress of feeling like you are being "watched" in their presence (even when not directly communicating with them), due to the acquired experience of previous conflicts. you are "on guard", weary of conflicting with them, which requires you to be silent and/or act unlike yourself - which is generally unsustainable. thus when you begin acting like yourself again around them, more conflict ensues.

it can be a very painful if those involved try to "push" the relationship. in my experience it's best to keep your distance, maintain your own territory (i.e. don't live in close quarters with them, unless you can spend time a lot of time away from each other), keep communication civil and on the superficial side. bonding can be achieved by talking about things of mutual interest that you have similar opinions on - where you won't end up disagreeing too much.

i most recently experienced super-ego relation conflict when traveling in a small group that included an SLI; we clashed a lot over a lot of things large and small, and it was the LII in our group who acted as the "bridge" between us. without the LII being able to communicate relatively well with both of us (being my beneficiary and the SLI's benefactor), it would have been worse than it was. i found it interesting that the LII foresaw the clashing between myself and the SLI before it really started - and the LII knows nothing of socionics.

[InvisibleJim]

My superego partners are utterly banal. As soon as I see where that is going, I avoid them.

[Narc]

I find ESEs quite irritating more often than not.

[Esaman]

With normal dependence on intelligence and culture I find ESI enticing. Particularly the seriousness, the tangibility of perception, the bit of bleeding heart/romanticism, the reservation. There is enough similarity or whatever to enjoy a very different perspective vicariously. Communication and particularly trying to agree on something on other hand is likely to lead to more bad blood than it is worth. Courteous distance I think is the optimal one.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't really care for LSI in intimate relationships; they are nice people and would make wonderful friends, but the whole thing about being smug, self assuring, seeking emotionally varied environments and not being sentimental and feminine, sensitive, sentimental like as my duals are would drive me nuts (there's not much emotion to read in them, whereas my duals have such varied internal emotionality that shows through on their faces that I just want to reach out and make out with them <3); LSI just want you to create an emotional environment for them, and I'm not apt at doing that. They are also not as aggressive as my duals in bed :/ But they are fun and I wouldn't mind taking up on their adventurous nature and go do things with them.

[wacey]

Appreciative and annoyed.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

They are warm and friendly, but there is a significant lack of trust that makes communication stiff and awkward. Almost kinda like 'we both want hot sex here and love and passion' but we don't trust the other person to really respect a certain part of ourselves to make that happen in reality.

Does anybody else get what I'm talking about? I just need some sort of empathetic connection (since I'm an ethical IEI type) to know what I'm saying is right. Please be nice to my type and just say if you experienced the same thing or not so I can see how true this is or how much my Te polr is trolling me.

Thank you, Socionics Committee.

[blackburry]

meh, I get along okay with LIIs.

I'm pretty good at joking off-the-cuff... so we tend to bond over our stupid senses of humor, but then...eventually they get too silly/childlike/ and/or anal retentive about something that I don't care about... and we clash.

plus they give off a weak vibe... I feel like the ones I've had to work with either at work or in class, I could squash easily with just a few words.. very sensitive beings, especially about their intellect.

Overall, I like 'em when they're in a good mood.

[anndelise]

Can we talk about real people =/

Leggo of my ego, dmmt.

[blackburry]

Can we talk about real people =/

I iz talkin bout people from work.

one's Pat and she is in love with the show Hoarders. I used to work with her alll the time, but she's moving soon and hasn't been around lately.

one's Tyler. and he's a tool, but we laugh a lot.

and the other ones..I don't remember their names, they're from my previous job.

[InvisibleJim]

I mostly feel about my superego with my hands.

[bolong]

I really do like them, and I think they really do like me too. But there are ego issues at every level.. I think because we're both introverts they tend to be centered around who is more socially proficient - though its subtle.

Also ego clash on taste in music, books, art... like not accepting of different tastes, but straight up "you like that stuff?? wtf is wrong with you?!!" It blows over quickly though.

[xerx]

my super ego makes me feel good about myself

[BlackholeRoad]

One of my best buds at my workplace is my super ego. And another is an LII, which both can be abbrasive to me with their logic at times, but I appreciate them both for how they do things nonetheless.

[Pookie]

As friends it can be a great relationship to keep you grounded. I have 2 SLI friends who i can not help, who can not help me, and we excel in totally different areas. But we get along great, though we don't really ask for support from the other. Because, you know, we're men.

We disagree, but understanding isn't difficult.

[Fetornado]

In SuperEgo close relationship you will achieve nirvana of psychological loneliness. Friendship - may be very productive and i could see that could be the case at work - I love working on the projects with my Superego. otherwise they are painful relationships.

[lynn]

LSE & EIE arguing

[Adam Strange]

My IEE bookkeeper is selling her ex-husband’s shop tools, and I’m helping her sort and price them.

Today a guy came over and wanted to buy her lathe. He gave her a lowball offer, but promised to move it out of her basement for free, which was worth about $1,000 to her, so she took it.

As I watched him disassemble the lathe into lighter pieces, I was having a hard time telling whether the guy was an SLE or an LSE. He was talking about his shop and the cars he raced and I glanced at the IEE and she had the most revolted expression on her face.
So, he was SLE.
Disassembly took hours and the IEE, who had prepared lunch for the two of us, asked him if he would like to join us, and he immediately agreed. We ate, he had seconds, then took some cherry tomatoes from his pocket and ate those while I kept up with his conversation about ultralights and home built race cars and engines.
Eventually, we got the lathe loaded on his truck and he drove off.
”That guy is in your opposite Quadra,” I said. “Not your Conflictor, but right next to him. I got along with him because he sits on the left side of the table, just as I get along with you because you sit on the right, but you and he sit across from each other and share no common values.”

She looked at me and said, “I can’t believe how immediate my feelings towards him were. You have no idea how hard it was for me to ask him to have lunch with us!”
I smiled.
”And of course he said “Yes” right away.” She was indignant. “He never shut up. And then he asked for seconds! And then, he started eating those cherry tomatoes!”

The things he did were perfectly civil and polite, but as the actions of a Super-ego, seemed egregious.

Personally, I was impressed by how fast and well he disassembled that lathe, carefully packed the pieces, and got the parts up the stairs (we had three strong guys helping us at this point) and onto his truck.

But mileage varies.

[Rebelondeck]

@Adam Strange I've seen plenty of IEE-SLE interaction and none like what you describe. I consider Eps to be much more tight-lipped around strangers unless they're put at ease, which may have been your doing. The behaviour that you describe seems more Ej than Ep but that could be my misinterpretation of your words; Ips can sometimes be more chatty or informative than Eps. Now, I've known some very friendly SLEs but they usually held themselves somewhat distant or above the fray, but the ones I've known certainly weren't careful packers.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange I've seen plenty of IEE-SLE interaction and none like what you describe. I consider Eps to be much more tight-lipped around strangers unless they're put at ease, which may have been your doing. The behaviour that you describe seems more Ej than Ep but that could be my misinterpretation of your words; Ips can sometimes be more chatty or informative than Eps. Now, I've known some very friendly SLEs but they usually held themselves somewhat distant or above the fray, but the ones I've known certainly weren't careful packers.

a.k.a. I/O

@Rebelondeck, it’s very possible that I’ve mis-typed one or both of the parties. However, I know an SLE-Ti who, if given a friendly audience, will monopolize the conversation.
The guy I typed as SLE brought his 19 year-old son with him. He was definitely a Ti-dom and seemed to be on the spectrum.

As for being a careful packer, he wrapped all the critical parts in newspaper and placed them in boxes. He replaced all the screws back into their holes so they wouldn’t get mixed up. Then he took all the random junk in his truck out and dumped it on the lawn and packed the lathe parts into the truck. Finally, he threw all the junk from the lawn back into the truck. I recall seeing a bicycle from the ‘80’s, a broom, some scraps of lumber, a saws all, brake fluid, anti-freeze, a full box of Tie-downs, a tarp, and more stuff that I can’t remember. If you didn’t know that there was a carefully preserved metal lathe in there, you’d swear it was a scrapper’s truck.

The truck itself was an old (read: square) Ford F-150 with rusted sills and incredibly faded red paint. He proudly pointed to parts of the bed that he had rewelded.
Just from the way he excitedly talked about modifying an ultralight that he’d just purchased and ignored my advice on the structure of wings made me think he was Se > Te.

[Rebelondeck]

@Adam Strange Then the revolted expression (unusual for an IEE to let it show) may be due to baggage - like perhaps a reminder of someone else's behaviour. Also, an IEE actually asking for assistance from LIEs or listening to their advice does seem a bit unusual. I've only known SLEs to be overly chatty when they had an objective in mind that required others to help or concur with something; most times they're somewhat distant, independent and self-sufficient (as also are IEEs). However, most of the one's I've known worked in niche areas and had significant education/experience.

a.k.a. I/O

[EUDAEMONIUM]

My IEE bookkeeper is selling her ex-husband’s shop tools, and I’m helping her sort and price them.

Today a guy came over and wanted to buy her lathe. He gave her a lowball offer, but promised to move it out of her basement for free, which was worth about $1,000 to her, so she took it.

As I watched him disassemble the lathe into lighter pieces, I was having a hard time telling whether the guy was an SLE or an LSE. He was talking about his shop and the cars he raced and I glanced at the IEE and she had the most revolted expression on her face.
So, he was SLE.
Disassembly took hours and the IEE, who had prepared lunch for the two of us, asked him if he would like to join us, and he immediately agreed. We ate, he had seconds, then took some cherry tomatoes from his pocket and ate those while I kept up with his conversation about ultralights and home built race cars and engines.
Eventually, we got the lathe loaded on his truck and he drove off.
”That guy is in your opposite Quadra,” I said. “Not your Conflictor, but right next to him. I got along with him because he sits on the left side of the table, just as I get along with you because you sit on the right, but you and he sit across from each other and share no common values.”

She looked at me and said, “I can’t believe how immediate my feelings towards him were. You have no idea how hard it was for me to ask him to have lunch with us!”
I smiled.
”And of course he said “Yes” right away.” She was indignant. “He never shut up. And then he asked for seconds! And then, he started eating those cherry tomatoes!”

The things he did were perfectly civil and polite, but as the actions of a Super-ego, seemed egregious.

Personally, I was impressed by how fast and well he disassembled that lathe, carefully packed the pieces, and got the parts up the stairs (we had three strong guys helping us at this point) and onto his truck.

But mileage varies.

Lmao I lost it after reading about the cherry tomatoes.

[MidnightWilderness]

@one

SEIs POV:

SEIs are NOT natural caregivers. No matter how much you want to insist that we are. We don't care about aesthetics or preferences, in fact I fucking hate it when someone criticizes me for that stuff, why would I hate what someone else likes? I never dislike stuff that's "too much" because I don't understand what the definition of "too much" means in this context? "pushing me to join social interactions" We are introverts, usually we need the push to join social interactions, not the other way around. I would never push someone to join a social interaction, that's just weird.

I don't know, maybe some SEIs act like this, and I apologize for the ones that actually do act like this IRL because it sounds annoying.

I'm sure if I met ILI I would also find something to dislike about them, but I haven't met too many ppl IRL. Probably I would hate the Te creative the most, also I could never pull off pretending to be SEE, I'd probably try to act like myself, I usually hate acting like something I'm not for no good outcome.

Maybe superegos just see each other in a twisted light, so maybe from ILI pov we look like this, but I swear I don't do those things IRL...

PS. I am still not a troll

[BaruchJorgell]

It must not be forgotten that SEIs are part of the hysterical four (along with EIEs, ILIs, and LSEs). If you couldn't give yourself a reason to avoid them, now you can.

[Northstar]

@Adam Strange Then the revolted expression (unusual for an IEE to let it show) may be due to baggage - like perhaps a reminder of someone else's behaviour. Also, an IEE actually asking for assistance from LIEs or listening to their advice does seem a bit unusual. I've only known SLEs to be overly chatty when they had an objective in mind that required others to help or concur with something; most times they're somewhat distant, independent and self-sufficient (as also are IEEs). However, most of the one's I've known worked in niche areas and had significant education/experience.

a.k.a. I/O

Agreed about the three things you mentioned. Adam's story fit me well except for the constant talking, I never turn down food offered and I don't care about doing a dance of pretending to decline until the host is forceful enough, and I have no problem taking seconds or the last piece of food on the table.

My experience with IEE was probably additionally burdened because her father was an LSI and their relationship was always very tumultous.