Experiences with Superego Relations

[jewels]

super-ego for me can be bad w/ girls especially. I don't like to be told what to do or have my stuff moved. Very bad. It could just depend on the one girl I knew.

But w/ guys they were more chill and really didn't bother me. It was more that it was almost boring because I knew they were all about Se. However, I also didn't ever think they were assholes (and I guess it can be hard for ESTps when everyone thinks they are an asshole because of the Se). I could definitely see the niceness in them and I liked that.

Occasionally when they were quiet they'd remind me of ISTps though I'd be like "hmm! maybe he's an ISTP!" and get all interested. but then he'd walk into a room and have that ESTp aura and I'd realize that I'd rather the aura be all about me and not have to compete for attention.

[redbaron]

super-ego for me can be bad w/ girls especially. I don't like to be told what to do or have my stuff moved. Very bad. It could just depend on the one girl I knew.

But w/ guys they were more chill and really didn't bother me. It was more that it was almost boring because I knew they were all about Se. However, I also didn't ever think they were assholes (and I guess it can be hard for ESTps when everyone thinks they are an asshole because of the Se). I could definitely see the niceness in them and I liked that.

Occasionally when they were quiet they'd remind me of ISTps though I'd be like "hmm! maybe he's an ISTP!" and get all interested. but then he'd walk into a room and have that ESTp aura and I'd realize that I'd rather the aura be all about me and not have to compete for attention.

[Tom]

I usually get along very well with EIEs, to tell the surprising truth.

Every one of them I know is kind (to a reasonable extent); I usually find the conversations to be civil and beneficial to both parties involved (by this I mean that we seem to exchange a rather large amount of useful information).

Sometimes I can't understand why they would do certain things, and I always wish that they would be more frank; I sometimes get frustrated with their seemingly innate need to go with the crowd on their personal beliefs, but I go to a small school where ArchonAlarion and I usually hold enough sway (or have convinced enough people of our beliefs), so this isn't usually a problem in these situations.

Actually, one of my best friends is an EIE; he's the guy all the way to the right in my avatar, and I genuinely enjoy being around him; he's one of the nicest, most personable people I have ever met.

[sunnycalih]

super-ego for me can be bad w/ girls especially. I don't like to be told what to do or have my stuff moved. Very bad. It could just depend on the one girl I knew.

But w/ guys they were more chill and really didn't bother me. It was more that it was almost boring because I knew they were all about Se. However, I also didn't ever think they were assholes (and I guess it can be hard for ESTps when everyone thinks they are an asshole because of the Se). I could definitely see the niceness in them and I liked that.

So this was super interesting for me to read. I've been sort of hypothesizing about whether or not certain super-ego combos can be more damaging than others. Again, I'm IEE and my fiance is SLE. ENFP/ESTP. Sometimes, I drive myself nuts wishing I was just a little more introverted, or pretending he is, cuz then, we'd be Duals! Just a letter off. lol.

But anywho, we're not, and I've come to have this little hope, that contrary to everything I read here, that we're ok. It snuck into my head after realizing how much I love him. How much he loves me. How much we want this to work. How incredible it is when we're in sync. And what a great equality I feel with him. My best friend is an SLI. I've known her since I was 2 and have never valued her more since I understood all this Dual business. But in reality, while we are incredibly comfortable together, who said comfortablity makes the ideal couple? I know plenty of people who are comfortable together who should never date, and also many who didn’t work out at all. The path of least resistance is not necessarily the best road

For me, what makes our relationship so interesting, is the differences we have. What I've read so often about super-ego pairs is so negative. And the truth is, the things they speak about (the fear, the discomfort), are there. But so is this incredible respect and admiration for the person. They embody your weaknesses. Embody the traits you wish you had. In many ways we’re like a left and right shoe. We just make a pair, especially when we’re goin somewhere, or doing something. We work extremely well together when we have a common goal in mind. And both of us appreciate immensely eachother’s lack of harsh reactions. We don't break eachother down for not having them, or for not being a certain way. Actually, he doesn’t stop telling people how smart I am, or how caring, loving, etc I am, especially when in a group. He also says all those things to me. And I do the same for him. To him directly, and about him to others. He’s a wonderful man, who works his butt off every day. He can be completely selfless, and is one of the most honest people I know. It’s a very respecting, level playing field, where you really feel like you’re with your equal. I suppose that has something to do with our relationship being monovert (from socioncics.us, in regards to monovert relationships: “Sense of level playing field and fair competition. Relationship revolves either around expansion and external business [two extraverts] or closes in on the relationship itself [two introverts].”). I would hope more people who've been in super-ego pairs post. I'd like to develop this idea more. Maybe two SuperEgo E's together don't hurt internally as much as two SuperEgo I's, as the relationship can revolve around external business, rather than closing in on itself. Also/Or, maybe romantic relationships lend themselves more to the superego pair, as it is more expected to have more open conversation, where as a friendship may not merit such deep convo. It could be odd to expend energy and request deeper connection from ‘just a friend’. N

These are just some of my theories. I should also note that when we first met, we did not speak the same language. Literally. He speaks only Spanish. I’ve now learned it (those yrs in HS come right back when u start using it, u’d be surprised ) and we now can speak fluently together. Interestingly (tho probably not shockingly) enough, that was when I really started to sense the super-ego ness. That’s when I got on the web, read up about it, and the light bulb went on. I’m not gonna lie, it’s not all roses. Hello, it’s a SuperEgo pair. But it’s also not nearly as bad or negative as it’s cracked up to be. ‘Least not for our combo.

To me, he is an incredible person. He has so much potential and so much to offer to the world, and to me. Through socionics, i've really been able to understand which things really should concern me, and which things are just our super-egos running into eachother. I am beginning to be able to weed through, and recognize when our functions are just hitting wrong, and know that nothing horrible is happening, no need to panic. Lol. And that in itself is calming. I remember before I read about socionics, in my David Keirsey, Please Understand Me days, I read that “Any two well-developed types can have a successful relationship”. And I really feel that is true. I would hope more comes of this thread. If I don’t destroy it with my massive post, that no one will get through. I’m sorry, I just have so many ideas! Ick. And this sucker is edited! Sorry! Lol :/


[however, on one more quick, and I emphasize quick, note, one of my best friends is going on yr 7 in a conflict pair. There should be another thread ‘bout that tho I’ll stop on this one]

[jewels]

So this was super interesting for me to read. I've been sort of hypothesizing about whether or not certain super-ego combos can be more damaging than others. Again, I'm IEE and my fiance is SLE. ENFP/ESTP. And I really feel that is true. I would hope more comes of this thread. If I don’t destroy it with my massive post, that no one will get through. I’m sorry, I just have so many ideas! Ick. And this sucker is edited! Sorry! Lol :/

I read it all, and found it interesting! Hey, if your and your fiance are happy and it works, then it works. Why even question it? Socionics is one little part, but not the whole enchilada.

[sunnycalih]

I read it all, and found it interesting! Hey, if your and your fiance are happy and it works, then it works. Why even question it? Socionics is one little part, but not the whole enchilada.

**WARNING, UN-EDITED RANT COMING ON**:

So, this response gave me hope. And I tried to get away from the super-ego labelness for a while. but my god have things gone horribly wrong this weekend. I cried. I don’t even remember why. Oh wait, yes I do, it was because he got drunk cuz he got let go from his job, and I don’t get him when he’s drunk. He’s Super loud, and dances, and calls friends like rapid fire. I mean, I guess he’s an E, afterall, but I think just the way our E’ness expresses itself is SO different, it scares me when it’s thrown in my face. I catch myself in the mirror w/ a furrowed brow, and tense shoulders, just a, “what on Earth are you doing?” look. Which tends to only make him do it more for some reason. I imagine there’s some sort of inner voice which picks up on the implied pressure oozing from my looks, saying “calm the F down. what is wrong w/ you??” but instead of calming, his inner self makes him want to rebel against any voice that is trying to silence or control him. Tho its my function that’s seems to be trying to keep my sanity that is asking him to calm down. It’s like, there’s this part of me that is silently Pleading with him to calm down. to be “normal” again. And it’s doing this because otherwise I’ll lose my mind. But to him, it doesn’t matter why I’m doing it, just that he feels the pressure to change, to do something other than what he feels inclined to do. so he rebels against that “pressure”.

I woke up with a Horribly tight neck and shoulders. I cried the next morning, because I’d been yelling at him at night, saying “I’ll see you in the morning! I sure do miss my boyfriend right now, don’t know where he went! There’s some nutjob here in my room instead, yelling and dancing and stumbling, but I won’t see my bf til the morning!” And then, in the morning, when it was “him” again, I cried. Cuz the whole episode hurt me terribly. I am, in the end, an Idealist. And that episode was Anything but ideal. Thing is, he really wasn’t that horrible. He was just dancing and laughing loud. Why did it Terrify me to the point of a feeling of raw fear? I felt Terrified, and that’s not an exaggeration. I was terrified of Why he was acting like that. I don’t like not getting things. And I don’t get how when someone looks at you like you’re nuts, you don’t even acknowledge it. you get louder! And not someone you hate. Your fiancé, is the one doing it. wouldn’t that make you want to simmer down a notch? Or, laugh? Or make fun of the fact that I’m all scared for no reason? I can take a joke, make fun of me for it. making light of the fear would make it lighter. But he just seemed to take it as a challenge. So I felt worse for reacting that way, which then turned into this feeling of guilt. He asked me to come sit by the radio w/ him, because he wanted to keep his mind off the job stuff, and just relax. And he wanted me to sit there w/ him. but he was so loud! It just made me cringe every time he laughed. The E’ness was terrifying me. I just wanted to plead w/ him to get into bed and sleep. But I could tell that he was relaxing. I just couldn’t stand being around it. He just got louder and louder. I didn’t know what to do to make him stop, but I wanted him to stop so badly. Thing is, he can get like this anytime he’s around friends. He’s just loud, and, oh god, the answer is so clear when I write it here. it’s just SUPEREGO problems all over the place.

Anyway, getting to the point, I cried. He got irritated. To the point where he resembled me the night before. Me crying makes him feel horrible. I cry because I feel weak, or am concerned, and it’s basically just whatever inner turmoil I have, bubbling over. But there’s always this underlying hope for me, that someone will just hold me and make it all ok. Because really, it’s rarely based in any rational fear. It’s just a “what are we doing here?” “why is there so much sadness in the world?” “why does the world scare me?” “what if we don’t make it?” “do you know how much I’d miss you if you weren’t here?” These are the things going through my head when I end up tearing up. and then, at these moments, I want SO badly, to look into your eyes, and have you see how much I’m hurting, and just want to calm me down. I need to be calmed down at these times so bad. I know no one has answers to these questions, but just to hold me, and not take it seriously. I don’t want to concern you more, and want to know that these fears I have are insignificant, and will never effect us. that it doesn’t get to you that I have random fears. That it won’t effect you.

Not gonna happen apparently w/ an ESTP. He feels like SH*T when I cry. We almost broke up about 3 times this weekend. He looks at me like I’m nuts when I cry. He’s like, “why are you crying? What did I do?” “you didn’t do anything! I don’t know, just…” And I try to go in for a hug, cuz that’s all I need and I’ll shut up. just hug me, protect me. calm me. be stronger than I am. show me that the things that terrify me, don’t get to you at all. But he can’t. I know these things don’t get to him, but he can’t accept that they get to me. We’re so torn today. I want to cry all the time. I don’t know how we got to this point. It’s breaking my heart. He’s met my parents, we live together. We have two cars together, and a bedroom set we make payments on. I feel like my hopes and dreams are falling down around me. I had a panic attack last night, I webmd’d it. I have chest pain, and thought I was losing my mind. I don’t know how to deal w/ this. I feel like if we break up, it will be because I cry. And I know I’ll only cry more when we break up. should I go to a therapist and try to work us out? should I let the whole thing go, and just go on some sexy, ISTP (SLI) search. How will I deal w/ this loss? Should I try to get Prozac or something, so I can numb the irrational fear and pain I feel? Will that help? Am I lying to myself? Will we always end up in this same position? What if I actually have kids with the guy. What then? Post pardum depression?? Who will work me through that? this relationship, if it fails, will devastate us both, because we’ve both put so much into it. He cooks, and cleans, and buys me flowers, and rubs my back, and goes to movies w/ me that he hates, and goes to all girls parties, cuz I invite him. and I keep our place spotless, and make him a priority, and make dinner, and have turned into a housewife. He’s motivated me to get a better job, and to stick to it, and motivates me to finish my psychology degree, and wants to help me do so, and is so generous, and gives money to whoever needs it, whenever. And he admires how kind I am, and always tells his friends and family how we hate to argue, and how we just get along so well. and it’s usually so true! We both respect and adore eachother as people. we have idealized eachother for over a yr. I love him. I love the little things he does. How I wake up at 4 am and his feet are searching inadvertently through the sheets for mine. How when we get ready for bed, he brings me my slippers in the bathroom so my feet don’t get cold on the tile, or he’ll prep my toothbrush w/ toothpaste, or just randomly start washing my hair in the shower. Or hug me when we’re in line somewhere, or just look into my eyes and tell me how beautiful my eyes are, or just how beautiful I am. he makes me feel like a princess 90% of the time.

But the thing is, as he does these things, my automatic response, is to tear up. it brings tears to my eyes sometimes how sweet he is, I teared up right now, just writing that. I tear up when I’m happy, when I’m sad, when the emotion or beauty of something overwhelms me, or even when I laugh to hard. But no matter what the reason is, just the fact that he sees tears in my eyes, makes him feel guilt. Makes him feel down on himself. Like I’m not getting enough from him. How horrible is that? I inadvertenly make him feel bad. and then, when I see him feeling bad, I feel worse! Cuz I know it’s because of my reactions. But I love the kid so damn much!! It’s not that he does anything horrible to the point of me not loving him any more. I still love him immensely. That’s what’s so horrible! This idea of us not working out, is ripping apart my heart. It’s tearing it apart thread by thread. We’ve become so intertwined. And I do respect and love him so much as a person. We just can’t, for the life of us, make eachother truly happy. And that’s all either of us really want to do. See the other one completely happy. But the thing is, neither of us know what the HELL to do w/ eachother’s weaknesses. Where we want to help, and where it hurts us to see the other person hurting, they’re just acting so WEIRD in those moments, it scares us. and rather than show love and acceptance when we need it most, we come off hard, cold, and uncaring. COMPLETELY inadvertently. This whole thing is breaking my heart. I can’t imagine my life without him anymore, but the thought of being w/ someone who cannot/will not calm me, understand me inner fears, terrifies me. I know I will be an emotional wreck, worse than now, down the line. Like I said. After a baby, after 2, 3 kids. Mid life crisis? If you can’t handle my random fears now, how the hell will you deal w/ those train wrecks later??

Then there’s the other things. He doesn’t like birthdays. Or valentines. He doesn’t like giving or receiving gifts these days. he doesn’t like theme parks, or doing random things, just on a whim. But at the same time, he’s not one for big planned events. He doesn’t seem to enjoy anything, really. Accept sitting w/ friends, exchanging concrete stories. I get bored out of my MIND in these groups. “remember the time?” “this one time..” “I can top that, remember when??” shut the eff up. who cares? What are you even talking about any more, and why are you all talking?? Oh god, it hurts my head. The only time we’re really good together, I suppose is when we are both dancing, we do enjoy that, or when we’re both in bed, watching tv, snuggling, or just the two of us, SOBER. Or maybe I should rephrase the first part of that sentence to read “the only time I’m really happy is”. Those are the moments I wait for. The moments I endure everything else for. I try so hard to put a good spin on things. And I am naturally optimistic, to a fault, so I rrreaally don’t like giving up on things. There’s so much good! So much love! Many little things I would miss enormously. Really, I just don’t know how I would go on. I don’t know if I would be motivated to keep working, or, function at all. I have no idea how I would sleep. I don’t know how to sleep alone anymore. I don’t know how to, nor if I want to, give it up, or if I could even deal w/ the loneliness afterwards, or the thinking about how he’s feeling. I couldn’t handle it being my fault. Because I cry?? Because I want a valentine’s gift? I read somewhere about how ENFP’s cannot fault people for things they do inadvertently. Welp, I can’t fault him for anything. His motives are always pure and sweet. Having two E’s or two I’s makes for an even plane, right? So we both feel like we’re equals.

Oh what a mess. What a great big huge mess. And what a gigantic venting-fest. Or more correctly, ramble-fest. But I always ramble, I suppose. Sorry.

[redbaron]

Sunny.... I only skimmed it. But I have to say, please please please listen to what is going on and seriously consider taking a break from this relationship. I just have to say it. marriage is... long and full of ups and downs. If you're having these sorts of things happen before you're even married, it doesn't bode well. My supervisee husband (we've been married for almost 15 years) and I never fought before we were married. We don't fight often now, but we do fight and things aren't perfect. But my gosh, if you're not even married yet, get out while you can!! Even if you love him. He's not giving you what you need. I know that being engaged seems final or something but it's not. It's waaaay less final than having kids and a house and a whole lifetime. Do not think that things will get better. Most likely it will be the opposite. (And this coming from an optimist! Sorry....)

[sunnycalih]

Sunny.... I only skimmed it. But I have to say, please please please listen to what is going on and seriously consider taking a break from this relationship. I just have to say it. marriage is... long and full of ups and downs. If you're having these sorts of things happen before you're even married, it doesn't bode well. My supervisee husband (we've been married for almost 15 years) and I never fought before we were married. We don't fight often now, but we do fight and things aren't perfect. But my gosh, if you're not even married yet, get out while you can!! Even if you love him. He's not giving you what you need. I know that being engaged seems final or something but it's not. It's waaaay less final than having kids and a house and a whole lifetime. Do not think that things will get better. Most likely it will be the opposite. (And this coming from an optimist! Sorry....)

Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate it more than you know. It makes me feel sane to have people actually respond in a normal manner anymore, regardless of the positivity or not. I appreciate the honesty.

My real question, and maybe I should hop over to some “duality” thread, is will my dual really give me what I need. Will they comfort me when I’m panicky? Or will they do the same thing. That’s another fear I have. If I do let him go, it’ll be, deeply, because I have this idealistic hope of having that “duality” relationship.

My ex and I were a supervisor relationship. I was the supervisee. That was a horrible relationship. I never thought this relationship could compare to that one. We argued constantly. It had become a comfort blanket for both of us, but the blanket had turned into a piece of prickly sand paper. We’d be cold w/ out it, but gotdam, if it wasn’t annoying to be under.

This relationship is turning into something almost more hurtful. Because I can’t hate my SLE like I hated my LII. I could get some sort of dislike going for the LII, because he was doing things purposefully to get to me. granted, after reading about socionics, I understand he was probably coming w/ good intentions, too. thank god I didn’t know about all this business then. maybe I’d still be stuck there! I wonder if this would be easier to deal w/ if I didn’t understand SO much, where he is coming from.

Just a mess. A horrible, confusing, painful, mess.

I think I’m changing my tune on the super-ego pairs. Yeup. This weekend’s opened my eyes. Damn.

[redbaron]

My real question, and maybe I should hop over to some “duality” thread, is will my dual really give me what I need. Will they comfort me when I’m panicky? Or will they do the same thing. That’s another fear I have. If I do let him go, it’ll be, deeply, because I have this idealistic hope of having that “duality” relationship.

You know, before I knew a dual at close distance, I was skeptical. And I've only been in a romantic relationship with a dual once (when I was like 15 and only for a few months). I'm good friends with one now and it's very very comfortable and safe. He totally calms me and motivates me. There's a weightiness, a groundedness to him which is what I need as an IEI. Anyway, duality isn't everything but when the other things line up (values, goals, interests), it really can be amazing.

[forgetmenot]

My ex and I were a supervisor relationship. I was the supervisee. That was a horrible relationship. I never thought this relationship could compare to that one. We argued constantly. It had become a comfort blanket for both of us, but the blanket had turned into a piece of prickly sand paper. We’d be cold w/ out it, but gotdam, if it wasn’t annoying to be under.

This relationship is turning into something almost more hurtful. Because I can’t hate my SLE like I hated my LII. I could get some sort of dislike going for the LII, because he was doing things purposefully to get to me. granted, after reading about socionics, I understand he was probably coming w/ good intentions, too. thank god I didn’t know about all this business then. maybe I’d still be stuck there! I wonder if this would be easier to deal w/ if I didn’t understand SO much, where he is coming from.

I had similar experiences - I mean I was with LII and with SLE. For me, the relationship with LII was much better. I felt really comfortable with him, at ease especially in the beginning. I really loved that guy although he had a very difficult character. I don't blame his type for that. I know other INTjs, they are prone to have "difficult characters" but not all of them do. I'd actually never say I hate LIIs, it's just the opposite. I admire them in a way and I feel good in their company.
My SLE was a person I really couldn't forget. The breakup was really painful although the relationship wasn't very serious. Because I thought he was an ideal. Now I think he's too loud, too self-centered and compared to my LII antitechnical (a trait which I value no idea why )

And I think you overestimate duality. I'm sure it's really comfortable but you can have a nice life with other types. It depends on what you value. If I had a choice, I would go for another LII or SLI. Not because I think SLIs are a perfect match but because I know what I like. I like quiet, thinking types, with a sense of humor.

Actually I'm sure you have a good intuition and you know what's good for you. I think you should forget about socionics a little bit and treat it more like a hobby. It's just a theory, some time ago people believed that the earth is a pancake. I mean I'm not saying it's a bad theory but just keep distance. From my own experience I know you may start exaggerating your stereotypical ENFpish traits and value ISTps too much. Anyway, some dual relationships also finish with a painful break-up.

If I could give you some piece of advice, try to find some strength inside you, because it is there. You don't need any ISTp or whoever to calm you, try to do it yourself. Try to treat yourself as if you were your best friend. If you feel insecure - try to think it's just a moment and it will be gone. Make a cup of tea, relax, try to keep distance. I'm sure it will work.

I wish you good luck with everything! Whatever happens, if you get married or if you finish this relationship - be your best friend and try to be the best to you. Take care of yourself, raise your mood! Nobody will do it for you, and it's even better to do it yourself .
Take care! I am with you :*

[iAnnAu]

My real question, and maybe I should hop over to some “duality” thread, is will my dual really give me what I need. Will they comfort me when I’m panicky? Or will they do the same thing. That’s another fear I have. If I do let him go, it’ll be, deeply, because I have this idealistic hope of having that “duality” relationship.

Sunny ... two things.
1. You don't have to give up on the relationship you have. You've given us a few details about it, but only you are living it. And no relationship is perfect. You're going through a rough spot, but if the two of you can address what's going on and come to an understanding, that very process can strengthen the bonds between you. EVERY RELATIONSHIP TAKES WORK. Now, if you have been noticing all sorts of problems and they're stacking up unresolved, THAT is important and probably a good indicator that either the two of you are innately incompatible or one or both of you has some emotional maturity to develop. But again, we can't really tell you that from an internet forum.

2. Your dual is not going to give you what you "need" any more or less than any other type. Their information metabolism is theorized to be the most complementary to your own, and that's all. It means that you're likely to be comfortable around them ... but ultimately it's up to YOU to give yourself what you need, and then find someone whose company you enjoy deeply enough to commit yourself to. And let me not downplay the difficulty of doing this for oneself - I can't even be certain I've achieved that level of maturity! But I'm not AFRAID of being alone; I know I'll be OK. The relationship I have with my current SO is going great, but if at some point in the future we end up not together, my life will go on, and that is no smear on him - I would hope he could say the same about himself. To me, that makes it even more significant that we choose to share our lives with each other.

It sounds like you're going through some strong and confusing emotions, so I hope I haven't said anything that sounds dismissive. Give yourself some time and space to yourself to give them some expression, because trying to stuff those emotions down and not acknowledge them has had bad results for me.