Philip Seymour Hoffman

[Gilly]

Thinking about going to see Doubt and wondering about his type. Personally I think he is probably EIE and a cp6 sx/sp.

[implied]

i think he could be beta. i thought he v.i.'ed (oooh) more like an LSI, but whatever. i can't be bothered to really look anything up about him.

[Steve]

Delta ST

[Gilly]

Delta ST

Because he sweats a lot and has a square face? Ok, nick...

[munenori2]

Delta ST? Wow.

Not very likely imo, but I guess I'd have to sit down, watch interviews, and ignore every single acting role he's ever played.

[Gilly]

Delta ST? Wow.

Not very likely imo, but I guess I'd have to sit down, watch interviews, and ignore every single acting role he's ever played.

ROFL

Dude, you are like, awesome lately.

[munenori2]

ROFL

Dude, you are like, awesome lately.

Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

[Gilly]

[Gilly]

lol I love this emoticon -->

[Steve]

Delta...THIS is Te/Fi:





Si>Se:



TeSiFi with that puzzled unfocused Ne look:



He's like an ST version of Elton John.

[Gilly]

I can say with a large amount of confidence that you are wrong.

[Steve]

Delta ST? Wow.

Not very likely imo, but I guess I'd have to sit down, watch interviews, and ignore every single acting role he's ever played.

Yeah, I actually really didn't know him and haven't really seen any of his movies, so I just looked at the pics and the interviews. I think this interview is obvious. He's very Si grounded and does Te with undertones of Fi.



I just watched some clips of him acting, and noticed that his true self is quite different than the personas he's played in movies. That acted persona I can see how some may confuse it with an Fe-ish thing. But anyone can act, you can only type the person.

THIS is a ENFj:

Fe ENFj:






Ni ENFj:





Hoffman isn't even CLOSE to these.

[Gilly]

I think Walken is IEI.

While showing how people are similar to one another can be useful in determining type, showing how people are different is extremely pointless, just given the amount of people who are the same type.

[Steve]

I think Walken is IEI.

Doesn't Walken look too controlled to be an IP?

While showing how people are similar to one another can be useful in determining type, showing how people are different is extremely pointless, just given the amount of people who are the same type.

Actually, after looking closer, I'm leaning toward Hoffman being Fi ENFp. I knew there was a reason I thought of Elton John looking at him. He also reminds me a lot of Mike Myers.









ALSO - look at Jack Black, another Fi ENFp

http://images.google.com/images?gbv=...k&start=0&sa=N

[marooned]

Yeah, I actually really didn't know him and haven't really seen any of his movies, so I just looked at the pics and the interviews. I think this interview is obvious. He's very Si grounded and does Te with undertones of Fi.

Normally I avoid saying these things since I think it can sometimes be difficult trying to make the abstract more concrete... but... I seriously don't know what this means. "Doing Te with undertones of Fi"? Is everyone supposed to simply agree?

[Steve]

Normally I avoid saying these things since I think it can sometimes be difficult trying to make the abstract more concrete... but... I seriously don't know what this means. "Doing Te with undertones of Fi"? Is everyone supposed to simply agree?

Since it's VI, it's really just a describe what I see thing, and some people may see it, others may not - there's not much I can do.

It really isn't possible to describe concrete observations with socionics anymore. When I used to in the old days they ended up being misleading and got away from the essence of what I was seeing.

How would you suggest describing my impressions more effectively?

[Gilly]

It's fine to use impressions, it's just that yours are wrong.

[Steve]

It's fine to use impressions, it's just that yours are wrong.

That was not the point of Loki's statement. It was about the method of conveying them.

[Gilly]

That was not the point of Loki's statement. It was about the method of conveying them.

I don't really care, I'm expressing my own opinion.

You try to type with impressions, which is fine. However your impressions are based on "vibey" manifestations of functions that just don't really exist anywhere beyond your own mind.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

He's kind of gross to me. I don't know why.

I was in the same boat for a while. but I've come to appreciate that he's actually a really good actor. I'm pretty tough to convince when it comes to acting, and this guy is up there. He's no Daniel Day Lewis, but he's pretty damn good.

[Steve]

I don't really care, I'm expressing my own opinion.

Ok

You try to type with impressions, which is fine. However your impressions are based on "vibey" manifestations of functions that just don't really exist anywhere beyond your own mind.

What else is there to type on? We're dealing with abstract cognitive processes that show themselves through holistic coloration of how a person comes across.

How can you go explaining to someone in concrete terms why the person's pictures demonstrate a specific function? By focusing on a raised eyebrow or pronounced jaw?

How do you go explaining that a person's picture demonstrates the presence of external field statics (Ti)? Or try describing the color green to someone.

I just don't see another way, but I'd be happy to learn one that'd be more effective.

[marooned]

She's Fi-ISFj. I can see the Se flowing out of her irises, the subdued Te dual-seeking working beneath her active display of Fi.

Compare this to a clear example of an LII-Ne 8w! sx/sp:


There's this look of Ti staticness sticking out like spikes in the Si flow that she is so totally immersed in.

--------

This was my sole point! That it doesn't say anything! Did that mean anything to you????

[marooned]

How do you go explaining that a person's picture demonstrates the presence of external field statics (Ti)?

So far I'm not convinced you can!

[Steve]

She's Fi-ISFj. I can see the Se flowing out of her irises, the subdued Te dual-seeking working beneath her active display of Fi.

Compare this to a clear example of an LII-Ne 8w! sx/sp:


There's this look of Ti staticness sticking out like spikes in the Si flow that she is so totally immersed in.

--------

This was my sole point! That it doesn't say anything! Did that mean anything to you????

Yes it does mean something to me, and thanks for sharing.

I understand what you're saying with the first one, I just am not sure on her type myself to see the same things, atm, but I'll get back to you.

Regarding Jolie, I agree 100%, except I believe she's Si ISFp, whose primary emphasis is indeed on Si and Ti.

She is totally immersed in an Si flow, and I see her Ti as emerging like spikes, like steel supports loosely rising from the water. It fits perfectly with the Si ISFp Si mode of orientation with the emphasis on the Ti hidden agenda. She's looking for all the Ti, trying to bring it to her from within her Si perspective. She seems dynamic>static. There is a direct flow to her, as opposed to a light background noise the way it is for me.



Kenny G, another Si ISFp, is the same way - he uses so much Ti when he speaks and seems like he's playing with it.



That's how the agenda manifests - the person is fascinated with it and they "dabble in" it. Whereas someone like me is within it and it takes a much more focused perspective.

[marooned]

i wasn't being serious (maybe you knew that and decided to take it seriously just because?). i was trying to demonstrate how wishy-washy it is.

[Steve]

Oh I thought you were, because your remarks about Jolie were accurate imo.

[Steve]

Yeah I kind of missed that one lol. Fuck, whatever.

[marooned]

I should have put Angelina in an Se quadra.

[Gilly]

What else is there to type on? We're dealing with abstract cognitive processes that show themselves through holistic coloration of how a person comes across.

How can you go explaining to someone in concrete terms why the person's pictures demonstrate a specific function? By focusing on a raised eyebrow or pronounced jaw?

How do you go explaining that a person's picture demonstrates the presence of external field statics (Ti)? Or try describing the color green to someone.

I just don't see another way, but I'd be happy to learn one that'd be more effective.

I just think you should study the IM elements more and make an effort to fully grasp them and embrace them the way you have embraced your own subjective method of understanding functions. Once you do that, you will be able to "see" functions without even trying. Expat once compared understanding the functions to knowing a language: once you really comprehend what's going on, it's not a matter of sticking labels on things and translating every little tidbit, but it's not like you're trying to guess what someone is saying by the expresson on their face, either. But you do come to have a better grasp of what actually means something in the context of socionics, and what is minutia.

[Park]

Philip Seymour Hoffman is in no way a Delta ST. I can easily see Beta, and Ti-ESTp would be my main hypothesis. Every fucking role he's played is an aristocratic Beta Se/Ni douchbagery. Ti arrogance/sarcasm and Fe humor is quite prevalent in his movies and is even evident in his public statements/interviews. The way he seems a bit reserved and appearance-conscious in the interview Steve posted seems like typical Fe HA behavior to me.

[Gilly]

I can see SLE. Actually that probably works better than EIE. Thanks

[Park]

Hoffman isn't even CLOSE to these.

That's (partly) because none of them is EIE.

[implied]

Philip Seymour Hoffman is in no way a Delta ST. I can easily see Beta, and Ti-ESTp would be my main hypothesis. Every fucking role he's played is an aristocratic Beta Se/Ni douchbagery. Ti arrogance/sarcasm and Fe humor is quite prevalent in his movies and is even evident in his public statements/interviews. The way he seems a bit reserved and appearance-conscious in the interview Steve posted seems like typical Fe HA behavior to me.

i can very much buy this. i was leaning towards LSI, but this is fine with me as well. i don't see anything delta there at all.

[Steve]

That's (partly) because none of them is EIE.

Yes they are

[Steve]

I just think you should study the IM elements more and make an effort to fully grasp them and embrace them the way you have embraced your own subjective method of understanding functions. Once you do that, you will be able to "see" functions without even trying. Expat once compared understanding the functions to knowing a language: once you really comprehend what's going on, it's not a matter of sticking labels on things and translating every little tidbit, but it's not like you're trying to guess what someone is saying by the expresson on their face, either. But you do come to have a better grasp of what actually means something in the context of socionics, and what is minutia.

Gimme an example of someone you've typed where you can point out the functions in the method you've just described, because it's pretty much what I do already. However it's becoming increasingly likely that you and I actually see the functions differently.

[Gilly]

Giving an example would be pointless. I'm just saying, I don't think you understand the functions properly.

[Park]

Yes they are

Christopher Walken is an Ni IP, he's like the epitome of IP temperament. Gene Wilder is probably an ILE.

[Steve]

Giving an example would be pointless. I'm just saying, I don't think you understand the functions properly.

Fair enough, the feeling is mutual.

[Steve]

Christopher Walken is an Ni IP, he's like the epitome of IP temperament. Gene Wilder is probably an ILE.

What do you see with Walken that's IP>EJ?

His style of expression and demeanor even resembles some Si ESFjs I've seen like Rush Limbaugh, Bill Maher, Bill O'Reilly, etc, of course the content and focus of perception differs greatly between Walken and those Si ESFjs.

Walken does not have the same kind of refinement as the J-sub EJs, but the way he exerts control over his environment seems distinctly EJ. He doesn't show the kind of go with the flow passivity that Ni INFps demonstrate, like Strrrng, Starfall, Jung, etc. He is also more directly reactive to the immediate information as a P-sub than an Fe ENFj would be, and I think Ni ENFj fits for him.