More very obvious 1:1 comparisons between Socionics and Alchemy

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 02:30 AM

The first picture here shows that the aspects of degrees in astrology [conjunction, sextile, swaure, trine, etc.] coincide with the quality of intertype relationships, as I have ordered them.

This next chart shows how the 36 strategems from China [these are based upon the Tao] relate to socionics types through the signs of the zodiac. The way that you would look at this would be to look at the specific sign of one of the stratagems, and then look at the functions within the quadra
that the sign is in. For example, "Fool the Emperor to Cross the Sea" is associated with the sign Leo, so you would look where the sign is at and see that the Beta quadra has the functions

, with the main association being

, and being associated with another function. The stratagem is therefore reduced down to being associated with

and

... "Fool the Emperor to Cross the Sea" is about making attractive reinterpretations of things that people find unappealing to make them more appealing, thus encouraging someone to take action. "Kill with a borrowed sword" would be

and "Loot a house on fire" would be

...

The following below is how I have worked out exact comparisons between alchemy, astrology, and socionics. It seems that there are already associations with the various tattwas to the specific signs of the zodiac, so what you see is the best comparison I can gather usingsocionics functions as a comparison. See more about Tattwas here: http://www.donaldtyson.com/tattwas.html

**munenori2** · 12-16-2008, 04:24 AM

Well, I understand that my astrological sign means that I'm an SEI that beats the grass to startle the snake so I can safely lure the tiger down the mountain by throwing a brick in the hopes of finding some jade. What I don't get is how I turn stuff into gold?

Do I have to try to use my high polarity to invade the

/

square? I bet I get something special if I build a hotel on that space.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by munenori2

Well, I understand that my astrological sign means that I'm an SEI that beats the grass to startle the snake so I can safely lure the tiger down the mountain by throwing a brick in the hopes of finding some jade. What I don't get is how I turn stuff into gold?

Do I have to try to use my high polarity to invade the

/

square? I bet I get something special if I build a hotel on that space.

Beat the grass to startle the snake is EGO

, it represents ISFps nature to want to create solidity in their life and the enjoyment of getting it; they like to shape their surroundings to their desires. Lure the Tiger down the Mountain is

and in representing ISFp it involves encouraging ISFp out of stubbornness, because they often like to sit around and not do anything except to kill braincells for long periods of time and hate to be forced to do things; they have to be baited to do things. Throwing a brick to attract Jade is

and is representative of the of the sporatic logic that ISFps have; often they will throw little "tidbits" of logical things out to hint at something and let other people fill in the gaps.

**crazedrat** · 12-19-2008, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

Beat the grass to startle the snake is EGO

, it represents ISFps nature to want to create solidity in their life and the enjoyment of getting it; they like to shape their surroundings to their desires. Lure the Tiger down the Mountain is

and in representing ISFp it involves encouraging ISFp out of stubbornness, because they often like to sit around and not do anything except to kill braincells for long periods of time and hate to be forced to do things; they have to be baited to do things. Throwing a brick to attract Jade is

and is representative of the of the sporatic logic that ISFps have; often they will throw little "tidbits" of logical things out to hint at something and let other people fill in the gaps.

I know. Wish we could kill them all off somehow...

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 03:20 AM

I am hoping that this would help clarify how to read this information.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ne=Baits,Motive,Energy,Potential
Se=Space,Blocks,Plugs,Territory,Shape
Ni=Division,Separation,Location,Time
Si=Bonding,Comfort,Relaxation
Ti=Small absorbed into Large, weak/strong foundations
Fi=Small rejected from Large, charm, ingratiation
Te=Filtering,Obstacles,Advancement
Fe=Attraction,Infestation,Enjoyment

--------------------------------------------------------------------

You then take this information above and compare it to the descriptions of the different strategems below:

http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...strategies.pdf
http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...rpretation.pdf

**strrrng** · 12-17-2008, 03:30 AM

ZHAO!!! I'M COMING FOR YOU BUDDY!

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-17-2008, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by strrrng

ZHAO!!! I'M COMING FOR YOU BUDDY!

An INFp would not rescue ZHAO by going to get ZHAO, rather an INFp would besiege WEY to "equalize" the fact that ZHAO was taken from the INFp, and then barter ZHAO back. That is how WEY is besieged to rescue ZHAO.

**ZTCrawcrustle** · 12-17-2008, 04:38 AM

Hey, thanks for the nick! What was it? MetaZCrawler? I like it!

@Starfall - the reason mcnew cannot be ENTp is because this is unreadable. So far, it makes sense in his head. Unfortunately, this is the deep end of Beta NF: the cult fanatic/wiccan-wannabe. Ti types don't understand this.

Originally Posted by rmcnew

I'll start with this.

I was really bored one summer a while back and there was a book of astrology in front of me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Air is the element of wisdom (I remember because I'm a Libra - cardinal air), so why do you attribute it to Se/Si? Does Se/Si even make sense when we look at what is written right above it? (I'm assuming the chart means that Air is the closest element related to "Divinity, Unseen, Astral Realm...") The above heading we can at least put under socionics Ni (Ne is a bit of a stretch), but the bottom heading is more of a stretch. I guess we could group it under Se/Si, to follow with your pattern. To continue with the bottom-up sequence of physically real to mentally real, shouldn't water then be Te/Ti? Knowing a little about astrology, I'm pretty sure this does not match the element of water, but Fe sure matches the element of fire. Anyway, just why are we grouping things in extraverted/intraverted ways?

I just got that from another look. You made the socionics corner into a crescent and wrote in the socionics elements. I'm wondering if you considered checking what each astrological element actually stood for.

Over to the next page. There are only two sentences on the whole page that somehow relate to socionics. They are conveniently highlighted as B. The second of these sentences is close to how we understand IM elements ("no sentience, only energies we can draw upon"). However, it is contradicted by the very next sentence, which is not highlighted. (This unhighlighted sentence also destroys whatever weak link had previously existed to the first sentence under B.)

What I'm getting from this is that mcnew wants us to believe that our IM elements are really sentient deities who smile down on us and bestow gifts. The unhighlighted paragraph reveals what was explicit to the readers of the book, but so far implicit to us: they are talking about the "natural" elements of earth, fire, wind, and water (get heart and we can crown mcnew Captain Planet). In a notch of irony, the way they talk about "pools of water, burning fires... even stones can find ways to communicating their feelings" is the wording the wiki uses to describe Fe-leading (last I checked, which was a while ago. Sorry, it is actually from Fe-creative.)

So, by this chart and passages, as far as I understand them, um... let's say SEEs are buddies with both Air and Water (that was unexpected, but I'm actually born on the day which Air separates from Water, so perhaps I should be SEE or SEI), but Fire and Earth think SEEs are pricks.

I'm going to go at these one a day. I don't have the time for anything else.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-18-2008, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle

I was really bored one summer a while back and there was a book of astrology in front of me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Air is the element of wisdom (I remember because I'm a Libra - cardinal air), so why do you attribute it to Se/Si? Does Se/Si even make sense when we look at what is written right above it? (I'm assuming the chart means that Air is the closest element related to "Divinity, Unseen, Astral Realm...") The above heading we can at least put under socionics Ni (Ne is a bit of a stretch), but the bottom heading is more of a stretch. I guess we could group it under Se/Si, to follow with your pattern. To continue with the bottom-up sequence of physically real to mentally real, shouldn't water then be Te/Ti? Knowing a little about astrology, I'm pretty sure this does not match the element of water, but Fe sure matches the element of fire. Anyway, just why are we grouping things in extraverted/intraverted ways?

Remember that I did more comparisons than just using astrology. I also had used the "Alchemical Processes" [such as digestion, separation, congelation, etc] as a means to discover where, which, how, and why I should apply certain parts of the "36 Chinese strategies" based upon the tao to certain astrological signs, as well as reading various sign, metal,etc. descriptions for alchemy astrology, as well as comparing those to socionics descriptions. From that, I looked for only 1:1 comparisons between all sources I used and was able to deduct where each socionics function was suppose to go in the Zodiac. I then was able to make various proof comparisons between socionics and astrological reasoning to find further evidence that there was a 1:1 correspondence, and so far the model shows a moderate to exact 1:1 correspondence between socionics, alchemy, and astrology to just about anything I throw at it between socionics, alchemy, and astrology now.

My most recent demonstration was showing that the relationship descriptions located at demitri lytov's old site:

http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/index.html

matched the Astrological aspects of the signs:

http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-aspects.htm

almost exactly in the same varying degrees of good relations to bad relations. This is what the following chart was intended to show.

http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...tionships3.JPG

http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-aspects.htm

I just got that from another look. You made the socionics corner into a crescent and wrote in the socionics elements. I'm wondering if you considered checking what each astrological element actually stood for.

Yes, and I also compared their alchemical attributes as well. That is evidenced here in this chart.

http://www.the16types.info/meta_pics...ibutions_4.JPG

I actually discovered what each type was by comparing 3 of corresponding degrees [360 degrees in a circle where 3 degrees equals one sign] to the the "36 strategems from china" to a specific alchemical process, then I would equate both astrological sign [reading descriptions] and also socionic descriptions to one another. Where I discovered solely 1:1 comparisons, I keep that information and then worked a system around it.

The result was that I found a system to mediates near exact between astrology, alchemy, and socionics.

Over to the next page. There are only two sentences on the whole page that somehow relate to socionics. They are conveniently highlighted as B. The second of these sentences is close to how we understand IM elements ("no sentience, only energies we can draw upon"). However, it is contradicted by the very next sentence, which is not highlighted. (This unhighlighted sentence also destroys whatever weak link had previously existed to the first sentence under B.)

Apparently you are constructing an argument for or against accepting anything that I have said or will have said, let us look at the way ZTCrawcrustle intends to do this right now.

What I'm getting from this is that mcnew wants us to believe that our IM elements are really sentient deities who smile down on us and bestow gifts.The highlighted paragraph reveals what was explicit to the readers of the book, but so far implicit to us: they are talking about the "natural" elements of earth, fire, wind, and water (get heart and we can crown mcnew Captain Planet). In a notch of irony, the way they talk about "pools of water, burning fires... even stones can find ways to communicating their feelings" is the wording the wiki uses to describe Fe-leading (last I checked, which was a while ago. Sorry, it is actually from Fe-creative.)

I am going to isolate a few sentences here:

What I'm getting from this is that mcnew wants us to believe that our IM elements are really sentient deities who smile down on us and bestow gifts.

I think this is a misunderstanding on your part and that you should go read the corresponding pages listed in the Kybalion for clarification of any specific points.

I should also point out that you are using a logical fallacy [looks like strawman] to make a claim [which I am not exactly claiming] that I am adding supernatural powers to the functions that can not be proven, and you are going to use that as an attempt to discredit everything that I have said. More information on the construction of a strawman argument is found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

The highlighted paragraph reveals what was explicit to the readers of the book, but so far implicit to us: they are talking about the "natural" elements of earth, fire, wind, and water (get heart and we can crown mcnew Captain Planet). In a notch of irony, the way they talk about "pools of water, burning fires... even stones can find ways to communicating their feelings" is the wording the wiki uses to describe Fe-leading (last I checked, which was a while ago. Sorry, it is actually from Fe-creative.)

More strawman looking argumentation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

So, by this chart and passages, as far as I understand them, um... let's say SEEs are buddies with both Air and Water (that was unexpected, but I'm actually born on the day which Air separates from Water, so perhaps I should be SEE or SEI), but Fire and Earth think SEEs are pricks. I'm going to go at these one a day. I don't have the time for anything else.

This has absolutly nothing to do with anything.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-18-2008, 11:39 PM

I changed the charts ... I found this to be more accurate.

**Ritella** · 12-19-2008, 12:29 AM

okay...

**mikemex** · 12-19-2008, 06:03 AM

I've always thought that the mystical schools of the far east are too well structured so that they perhaps came up with about the same thing as socionics. In fact, it all sounds like the understanding about human nature an ILI would develop. Very accurate but also highly symbolic; not conceptual.

The idea that our date of birth determines it is bullshit, though.

**Hot Scalding Gayser** · 12-19-2008, 05:02 PM

This is all headache-inducing and... blaaaah.

**Warlord** · 12-19-2008, 05:52 PM

if you write all types of alpha quadra in The Magic Square, you get:
IIEE = Institute of Industrial Electronics Engineering
SNNS = Stuttgart Neural Network Simulator
FTTF = Fada Airport
pjpj = Project Jenny, Project Jan, a laptop rock band from Brooklyn, New York

electronics, computers, neural networks, and the element of air

Coincidence, I think not!

**marooned** · 12-19-2008, 07:39 PM

Earth is like Si and Te.
Water is like Fi and Ni.
Air is like Ti and Ne.
Fire is like Se and Fe.

Alpha = 2 air + 1 earth + 1 fire

Alpha is the airiest quadra, and most likely to have "hot air" ideas that are ideas for their own sake: it is ruled by air. It is also the warmest most welcoming quadra (as it lacks the coldness of water).

NeTi and TiNe = pure air
SiFe and FeSi need air to burn... bring air back to earth

Beta = 2 fire + 1 water + 1 air

Beta is the hottest quadra, burning with passion that is unending. It lacks earthly practicality and flies on ideals and desire. Beta wants no earth to hold it down.

SeTi and TiSe = fire and really hot air (though not "hot air" in the alpha sense ) can control intensity of heat
NiFe and FeNi = fire and water, always trying (not) to extinguish themselves... tends to stay suspended in inertia between fire and water.

Beta is always conspiring to blow itself up and has to maintain a difficult and termperamental fire/water balance to sustain its existence.

Gamma = 2 water + 1 fire + 1 earth

Gamma is the coldest, iciest quadra, with the sharpest precision and efficiency. When Gammas come together, it can become lukewarm and then suddenly burn to intensely hot, even if most of the water is cold. Gamma is adverse to air (or runaway ideas that have no ground).

SeFi and FiSe = water and fire (warms things up so relationships can form, is able to single-handedly manage a balance of opposition... making things colder or warmer by conscious will.)
NiTe and TeNi = water and earth (doesn't know how to heat itself off... is inertia)

Delta = 2 earth + 1 water + 1 air

Delta is the earthiest most practical quadra that is much more solid and grounded than all the others, bringing a certain unflinching stability and sense of security. Delta rejects fire (or runaway passion/power that knows no bounds).

NeFi + FiNe = air and water (or "gentle" mist, equanimity)
SiTe + TeSi = earth that stays in one place ("like a rock") and gets way too grounded when left alone without water to soften it, or air to ruffle it.

-------------

Si (earth) + Ne (air) work via equal cooperation, lifting
Ti (air) + Fe (fire) work via union, intensifying one another
Te (earth) + Fi (water) work via understanding lines or boundaries, touching one another without merging... (separation)
Ni (water) + Se (fire) work via opposition

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-19-2008, 11:09 PM

Wow! I think Loki was the closest so far to getting this!!!

I am impressed!

**Ritella** · 12-19-2008, 11:14 PM

WTF? you changed your name?

**Park** · 12-19-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Loki

Earth is like Si and Te.
Water is like Fi and Ni.
Air is like Ti and Ne.
Fire is like Se and Fe.

Alpha = 2 air + 1 earth + 1 fire

Alpha is the airiest quadra, and most likely to have "hot air" ideas that are ideas for their own sake: it is ruled by air. It is also the warmest most welcoming quadra (as it lacks the coldness of water).

NeTi and TiNe = pure air
SiFe and FeSi need air to burn... bring air back to earth

Beta = 2 fire + 1 water + 1 air

Beta is the hottest quadra, burning with passion that is unending. It lacks earthly practicality and flies on ideals and desire. Beta wants no earth to hold it down.

SeTi and TiSe = fire and really hot air (though not "hot air" in the alpha sense ) can control intensity of heat
NiFe and FeNi = fire and water, always trying (not) to extinguish themselves... tends to stay suspended in inertia between fire and water.

Beta is always conspiring to blow itself up and has to maintain a difficult and termperamental fire/water balance to sustain its existence.

Gamma = 2 water + 1 fire + 1 earth

Gamma is the coldest, iciest quadra, with the sharpest precision and efficiency. When Gammas come together, it can become lukewarm and then suddenly burn to intensely hot, even if most of the water is cold. Gamma is adverse to air (or runaway ideas that have no ground).

SeFi and FiSe = water and fire (warms things up so relationships can form, is able to single-handedly manage a balance of opposition... making things colder or warmer by conscious will.)
NiTe and TeNi = water and earth (doesn't know how to heat itself off... is inertia)

Delta = 2 earth + 1 water + 1 air

Delta is the earthiest most practical quadra that is much more solid and grounded than all the others, bringing a certain unflinching stability and sense of security. Delta rejects fire (or runaway passion/power that knows no bounds).

NeFi + FiNe = air and water (or "gentle" mist, equanimity)
SiTe + TeSi = earth that stays in one place ("like a rock") and gets way too grounded when left alone without water to soften it, or air to ruffle it.

-------------

Si (earth) + Ne (air) work via equal cooperation, lifting
Ti (air) + Fe (fire) work via union, intensifying one another
Te (earth) + Fi (water) work via understanding lines or boundaries, touching one another without merging... (separation)
Ni (water) + Se (fire) work via opposition

Delta sounds boring.

Beta sounds like fun.

**marooned** · 12-19-2008, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Winterpark

Delta sounds boring.

Beta sounds like fun.

you should re-type yourself according to it haha

**Gilly** · 12-20-2008, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Winterpark

Delta sounds boring.

Beta sounds like fun.

That's because Delta is boring. To Betas

Creepy-Pied Piper · 01-24-2009, 09:29 PM

Removed at User Request

Creepy-Pied Piper · 01-24-2009, 10:45 PM

Removed at User Request

**Angel von Himmel** · 01-24-2009, 10:55 PM

The last thread was closed on account of immature morons who fail to see the point in giving any good input when you mention the words "socionics" and "alchemy" together. Until this thread Cyclops and ZWcrustie were the only ones to give any decent input. So, iy is great that there are people here interested in this sort of stuff. I may post here more often after everything between subterranean and the board is transferred when I see this being discussed more openly. I get a good feeling when people atleast try to discuss these things like mature adults.

Angel von Himmel: it is clear for me that the number 3 plays a great role in the dynamics of the world (like 4 for the structure), as the rock, paper and scissors. but i think they apply to different contexts, it is unclear for me if the twelve signs actually have a relevance.
i couldn't follow your diagrams, could you put there some instructions like: what to look for, how to follow, what represent "+" and "-"?

I think by "+" and "-" symbols you are referring to one of my early diagrams. The plus represents extroversion and the minus represents introversion.

Probably the most accurate char I have now is this one, although it lacks emphasizing some important details. You can follow this chart to make comparisons between socionics, the zodiac, and the indian tattwas.

When doing comparisons with the chart it is quite easy to see that socionics is really the same thing as the zodiac, just various parts renamed and applied differently. They both use a 360 degree circle with 40 of the degrees representing two elements or functions. This is evidenced by looking below.

You can test this by reducing quadras down to their base functions according to type.

Alpha: ENTp, ISFp,ESFj,INTj -

,

Beta: ESTP, INFp, ENFj,ISTj -

,

Gamma: ENTj,ISFj,ESFp,INTp -

,

,

Delta: ESTj,INFj,ENFp,ISTp -

,

If you can compare that to the Spring,Summer,Fall,Winter seasons on the Zodiac as represented by the colors red,white,yellow,black it is obvious that there is a 1:1 comparison, they are the same thing.

This can be further proven by knowing the following. Various signs are 180 degrees from eahc other on the zodiac and represent conflict. You can take the signs as they represent a socionics type by base function and find conflicting partners. I'll give you an example.

Aries is fire sign and Scorpio is water sign and 180 degrees apart.
Aries represents

for fire and Scorpio represents

for water.
Aries represents ENTp and Scorpio represents ISFj.
Aries is in the season Wet and Scorpio is in season Dry.
ENTp is in Alpha quadra and ISFj is in Gamma quadra.

Go through and do the same for the rest of the type and it is 100% obvious that socionics is the zodiac.

Follow the chart below.

**ZTCrawcrustle** · 01-25-2009, 12:23 AM

Holy Master Above - not to ruin your day or anything but Aries is opposite Libra (just look at your own chart). Oh, and I believe the elements themselves are all grouped together in the Zodiac. Aries, Taurus, and Gemini are the three types of Fire; Cancer, Leo, and Virgo - the three types of Earth; Libra, Scorpio, and Sagittarius - the three types of air; and Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces - the three types of Water. (Each triad has some connection to the element they represent; this is obvious for some of them, less obvious for others as it is based on ancient conceptions of the constitution of certain objects.) You might have to rework your graph.

Anyway, ephemeros, neither of your Fire correlations works for Aries. Aries (and Zodiac Fire) represents burning passion. Not thinking nor

nor

really fit as well as pure

. Libra is the embodiment of Air. It is highly intellectual, but standoffish and elitist. No one element describes Libra, but many types would fit under it.

**Angel von Himmel** · 01-25-2009, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle

Holy Master Above - not to ruin your day or anything but Aries is opposite Libra (just look at your own chart).

The chart is 100% correct ... however, I would not necessarily go by it to gauge degrees the signs are to each other. And Aries is not opposite Libra, it is opposite Scorpio on this chart.

I think your confusion is that in astrology Aries and Libra are opposites, but socionicswise this would be a super-ego relationship. Apparently in astrology it is counting

and

as conflicts, and technically that would be correct.
Although, I am not sure I would agree with the modern astrological interpretation that scorpio and aries are best matches. I think they are interpreting that on the basis that they are assigned the same metals. In older alchemical texts they are conflictors.

Creepy-Pied Piper · 01-25-2009, 04:42 AM

Removed at User Request

Creepy-Pied Piper · 01-25-2009, 03:24 AM

Removed at User Request

**Angel von Himmel** · 04-18-2009, 11:52 AM

Creepy-Cyclops · 04-18-2009, 12:34 PM

Good stuff Angel Von, this is definitely an improvement. The next stage I think is to remove all the blue from the image above and you will almost have a clean sheet there

**Angel von Himmel** · 04-18-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Good stuff Angel Von, this is definitely an improvement. The next stage I think is to remove all the blue from the image above and you will almost have a clean sheet there

Like this?

Yeah, it took me a while to figure out that the simplest way to describe the theory would be to make a mandala. Here I was making all these large charts people had to fumble through.

Creepy-Cyclops · 04-18-2009, 01:01 PM

Yes it looks like the plans for a concert hall now.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Starfall

Uh-oh.

btw, how could you not be a Ti type? I f I looked even further into this I'm sure my head would explode.

Lol ... funny you should say that. MetaZcrawler was saying that these were silly parables that can only be associated with with an ENFj.

ENFj and ENTp are both probably types for me I think.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Starfall

ILE, maybe, but EIE is hard for me to see; though I'm no expert on EIE's.

I remember Hugo showing me some chart he made and I experienced a similar kind of "my heads going to explode" reaction. He explained to me that I got that reaction because I have weak Ti. I need things to be clean, clear, crisp, and direct to the point if I'm going to put any effort into understanding something.

The only way to understand the charts is to read the resources I give out and see how they all relate to one another, and to know all the bits of relevant socionics, alchemy, and astrology required to understand how there exist comparisons.

Of course, unless one is already well studied that takes time and effort and apparently many of the people who are opposed to this system as it is built would rather make denials followed by weak refutations than to look at the resources involved to see if there is indeed a comparison.

**strrrng** · 12-16-2008, 02:58 AM

Absolutely irrefutable. I'm befuddled as to why others don't grasp this obvious correlation.

**Angel von Himmel** · 12-16-2008, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by strrrng

Absolutely irrefutable. I'm befuddled as to why others don't grasp this obvious correlation.

It might be refutable ... just it seems that people who try to refute it have no clue what it is that they are actually refuting.

**strrrng** · 12-16-2008, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

It might be refutable ... just it seems that people who try to refute it have no clue what it is that they are actually refuting.

A lot of the people who promote it seem to have no clue what it is they're promoting, either.

**jason_m** · 12-19-2008, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Starfall

I remember Hugo showing me some chart he made and I experienced a similar kind of "my heads going to explode" reaction. He explained to me that I got that reaction because I have weak Ti. I need things to be clean, clear, crisp, and direct to the point if I'm going to put any effort into understanding something.

Believe me, that doesn't mean that you have weak Ti, it means that you're human. I don't understand what's going on here. A lot of Ti types like to come up with complicated stuff that few can understand - including people similar to themselves. Think of Tcaudilllg as an example.

Jason

Thread: More very obvious 1:1 comparisons between Socionics and Alchemy

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