Alpha vs Beta Social Groups

[Steve]

Both have that Fe kind of atmosphere, and seem warmer to me than the kind of standoffish Gamma/Delta, but I still see differences between Alpha and Beta. From my experience I've found Alpha groups as generally more inclusive and flexible. The essence of the group is more accommodating and adapts to the needs of the individuals within it. It's more like a collective harmony that takes into consideration the immediate needs of all of the people in it. Beta groups to me seem more absolute - you're either in or out, and it seems like at times one person's will takes the lead and becomes the group dynamic, then that person loses power and someone else's will takes over, and everyone follows. There's no continual feedback of the immediate needs of everyone in the group as time goes along, as those are seen as superfluous.

What have you seen?

[Ms. Kensington]

never seen an alpha group..

but with a beta group, its been raucous and chill at the same time, and yeah, if youre out, its obvious.

[1981slater]

We alphas love to lightjoke whereas betas laugh at outsiders, specially at weaklings. Betas are usually strong people. There are packs of betas in gyms, football teams, karate schools,etc. They love to compete and to laugh. On the other hand, alphas are more interested in mental activities that allow us to laugh, for instance:board games.
If you can keep up with betas' forceful activities you will earn their respect. Betas are warmer than gammas by far. Deltas are suspicious of newcomers, but they are fine people after all, in a different way that betas are.

[Lotus]

Alpha groups are strange and uncomfortable. Beta groups care too much about pretending not to care. Beta "hierarchies," from what I've gathered based on the Betas around here, just seem dumb to me. Good for you, you have this complex system of "placing" people that no one really cares about but yourself.

Anyway, the way Fe/Ti types talk about groups tends to bother me in general. They discuss it as if they're talking about one person with thoughts, feelings, and reactions to things. "This person is 'in' the group, or 'out,'" and "the group felt this way or that way." It's like they're no longer talking about individual people anymore, and using Ti to organize something they experience through Fe? In Betas, the Se/Ni with Ti often manifests as some stupid "hierarchy" that INFps here don't shut up about. In Alphas, I think the Ne/Si creates this weird vibe of something constantly rolling over on top of itself.

[Satan]

allie just likes to bitch a lot.

[Lotus]

I actually feel the same way about the Beta hierarchy thing around here, and I'm Beta.

Haha. That's actually nice to know.

allie just likes to bitch a lot.

as;ldkfjas;dlfjka;sldfkjads;

[strrrng]

Alpha groups are strange and uncomfortable. Beta groups care too much about pretending not to care. Beta "hierarchies," from what I've gathered based on the Betas around here, just seem dumb to me. Good for you, you have this complex system of "placing" people that no one really cares about but yourself.

How do we pretend not to care? And what is this in reference to? Have you ever been in a beta group?

Alphas in particular tend to steamroller anything remotely interesting that comes their way into some pulsating colorless "groupshare!" mass. Meanwhile, Betas are grappling for the spotlight in some kind of one-up-on-the-other-nigga-competition.

I think betas care a lot less about any 'atmosphere' than alphas, as it is constantly changing with the competition you mention.

Anyway, I think steve generally got it. Alphas tend to take the constant internal Fe interactions and disperse them into the external Si context, hence their focus on "a positive environment." To me it seems as if they are riding in a boat along a peaceful little pond, singing melodies to themselves. Beta groups tend to flourish in environments with rapidly changing 'impacts' (ostensible), that give a sense of flux to the internal causality of Fe. There is obviously a sort of Ti consilience underpinning both of these groups.

But I think some people are taking this idea too far. I don't seek groups out; I don't give a fuck about being part of something bigger. Don't conflate Ti/Fe with the social instinct of the enneagram. As far as real friends go, I maintain a small handful of like-minded people. The group thing is more or less something I enjoy and adapt to easily, rather than some imperative drive. Sure, I want people to rally for the cause with me, but whatever. Most of the time in groups I enjoy whoever will push it the farthest. This is where the individual ceases to exist: you have an energy coursing throughout the people, and different tactics are used to make the strongest effect. I don't care if your feelings are hurt, if it's too frustrating, imposing, whatever. You consigned yourself to whatever consequences that ensue when you opted to participate. It's great for weeding out the weak; and I don't wait around for anyone.

Thanks

[Lotus]

How do we pretend not to care?

They'll have an attitude of being above whatever they're involved in. But when they're not involved in it, all they care about is getting involved again. If that makes sense. Like they constantly need to be in a group they claim not to care about.

And what is this in reference to?

Uh... Betas? IRL.

Have you ever been in a beta group?

Yes.

[strrrng]

They'll have an attitude of being above whatever they're involved in. But when they're not involved in it, all they care about is getting involved again. If that makes sense. Like they constantly need to be in a group they claim not to care about.

Interesting. I think this generally holds true. Like if I was in a predominately beta group back in high school, there would be a sort of implicit attitude of superiority, so while we would engage in certain social settings, activities, etc., we wouldn't 'try' to do it. And we would always move on quickly, because well, if you want to stay in control, you have to keep moving. And yeah, if there isn't anything going on, typically a few betas will eagerly jump to incite something, or perhaps leverage an already existing situation to gain control. Once we have it, there is no longer a need to try, because the group will take care of itself, and someone else taking control is unlikely.

with some groups of people i feel stronger. this to me is good.

Me too Although I would never want to be dependent on a group. I just think that the combination of energy from like-minded individuals can have a more potent result sometimes. And plus, other factions exist out there, so it's probably smart to have one.

[crazedrat]

that whole pretending not to care / caring thing is a trademark of borderline personality disorder. For example, when someone targets you for vengeance in a subtle way kind of like ... kicking you under the table at every opportunity, but pretending nothing's going on above the table, and if you call them out they'll say ... 'what? nothing happened'. And it's usually done in reaction to some time you've kicked them. But they must kick back, 100 times harder. That's the thing about it. Most people have this behavior to some degree. I've definitely experienced this phenomenon full blown with my ENFj sister. But my ISFj-Se sister does the same thing constantly, too. So i can't really say it's a beta thing necessarily

[Satan]

that whole pretending not to care / caring thing is a trademark of borderline personality disorder. For example, when someone targets you for vengeance in a subtle way kind of like ... kicking you under the table at every opportunity, but pretending nothing's going on above the table, and if you call them out they'll say ... 'what? nothing happened'. I've definitely experienced this phenomenon full blown with my ENFj sister. But my ISFj-Se sister does the same thing constantly, too. So i can't really say it's a beta thing necessarily

i think it's a gamma thing

[strrrng]

that whole pretending not to care / caring thing is a trademark of borderline personality disorder. For example, when someone targets you for vengeance in a subtle way kind of like ... kicking you under the table at every opportunity, but pretending nothing's going on above the table, and if you call them out they'll say ... 'what? nothing happened'. And it's usually done in reaction to some time you've kicked them. But they must kick back, 100 times harder. That's the thing about it. Most people have this behavior to some degree. I've definitely experienced this phenomenon full blown with my ENFj sister. But my ISFj-Se sister does the same thing constantly, too. So i can't really say it's a beta thing necessarily

From my memory it occurs strongest when it's fueled by an aggressive sexual motive, like for males attempting gaining an alpha male position in a group, or attempting to dominate a woman; or for females trying to break free of a males influence, or trying to manipulate a male into doing their bidding

Why does this feel so eerily familiar?

[Khola aka Bee]

They'll have an attitude of being above whatever they're involved in. But when they're not involved in it, all they care about is getting involved again. If that makes sense. Like they constantly need to be in a group they claim not to care about.

Ok I am *kind of* guilty of this....but I digress, fuck you.

[Satan]

How do we pretend not to care? And what is this in reference to? Have you ever been in a beta group?



I think betas care a lot less about any 'atmosphere' than alphas, as it is constantly changing with the competition you mention.

Anyway, I think steve generally got it. Alphas tend to take the constant internal Fe interactions and disperse them into the external Si context, hence their focus on "a positive environment." To me it seems as if they are riding in a boat along a peaceful little pond, singing melodies to themselves. Beta groups tend to flourish in environments with rapidly changing 'impacts' (ostensible), that give a sense of flux to the internal causality of Fe. There is obviously a sort of Ti consilience underpinning both of these groups.

But I think some people are taking this idea too far. I don't seek groups out; I don't give a fuck about being part of something bigger. Don't conflate Ti/Fe with the social instinct of the enneagram. As far as real friends go, I maintain a small handful of like-minded people. The group thing is more or less something I enjoy and adapt to easily, rather than some imperative drive. Sure, I want people to rally for the cause with me, but whatever. Most of the time in groups I enjoy whoever will push it the farthest. This is where the individual ceases to exist: you have an energy coursing throughout the people, and different tactics are used to make the strongest effect. I don't care if your feelings are hurt, if it's too frustrating, imposing, whatever. You consigned yourself to whatever consequences that ensue when you opted to participate. It's great for weeding out the weak; and I don't wait around for anyone.

Thanks

with some groups of people i feel stronger. this to me is good.

[Ezra]

Both have that Fe kind of atmosphere, and seem warmer to me than the kind of standoffish Gamma/Delta, but I still see differences between Alpha and Beta. From my experience I've found Alpha groups as generally more inclusive and flexible. The essence of the group is more accommodating and adapts to the needs of the individuals within it. It's more like a collective harmony that takes into consideration the immediate needs of all of the people in it. Beta groups to me seem more absolute - you're either in or out, and it seems like at times one person's will takes the lead and becomes the group dynamic, then that person loses power and someone else's will takes over, and everyone follows. There's no continual feedback of the immediate needs of everyone in the group as time goes along, as those are seen as superfluous.

What have you seen?

Yeah, that's not a bad analysis of Beta. Often I find myself avoiding certain Beta groups, especially those in which I have no real status.

[Creepy-male]

Since when were Delta groups standoffish?

You get things done, it's just that nobody joins in with my 90 dB laughter.

EDIT

Maybe it's because I'm a teenager, or something. Delta groups are just smaller, quieter Alpha groups, basically. None of the Gammas do anything social, and Betas have evil Fe, imo.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[redbaron]

Betas (+LSE), on the other hand are "all night long" kind of people, they have a special warmth (including SLE) and an eagerness for meeting and closeness. often i leave them with the desire to meet them again as soon as possible (after i finish my things). i don't have their energy and "betray" them often by leaving "early" but this doesn't change anything, they're always there and welcoming.

Whenever my SLE friend has a party, he emphatically states that he expects that no one will leave until a certain time and pressures those of us who he think might stay even longer, to stay as long as possible. Amuses me. I love it cause it feels so forcefully welcoming.

with Alphas i prefer to do serious things, plans, shopping, geek things, etc. with them i discuss politics and about humanity in general. they are my base of help when being in a difficulty. i find a spontaneous fun with them, too, because my way of showing off is caught best by them without misunderstanding or harsh criticism (just bit the ESE). i can mock any Alpha about anything for no matter how long without getting mad at me. the introverts (SEI and LII) show the same openness towards me even if i become [edit:] an asshole, they even look entertained by this and never get offended.

i feel most easily to talk with Betas about feelings, relationships, dreams, etc. when i talk about these with Alphas they are pretty puzzled and have a "hey, get serious" attitude.

Yup. I once started talking about my feelings about my life and regrets, etc with my SEI friend and he was very puzzled. I quickly realized that wasn't the sort of topic he could really handle. But he's so much fun to tease and banter with. There's something I love about the inclusive, fun alpha atmosphere, but after awhile, I find myself walking away from that and trying to find something stronger or more robust? I dunno. (that damn Se-seeking again....)

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request