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    Default Ritella's dual

    This topic's question is still under construction. Please note that Ritella specifically requested that the topic not mention which description is which. Thank you.



    Ritella, please read the three following descriptions and discuss the ways in which each of the potential ideal partners would or would not meet your desires and needs. Also discuss whether you feel you would be capable of fulfilling the role that each potential ideal partner needs and how easy/natural/enjoyable it would be for you.

    A.) Ritella's ideal partnet is decisive and purposeful, brave and full of initiative. He is capable of persevering a long time towards his goal, overcoming any difficulties at his way. He is not always capable of taming his emotions and outbursts of wrath, but can subordinate others to him and make them do what he wants. Ritella lacks such decisiveness; she admires strong people possessing leadership skills. She tries to be useful to them by giving cautionary advice.

    Ritella foresees very well the negative outcome of certain actions of her ideal partner. She watches people's emotional reactions and then suggests to her partner measures to influence them. Without such advice her partner may act precipitately. He possesses good organizational skills. He has a talent for planning actions, distributing duties and resources. He at the same time lacks diplomacy. He will manipulate people like inanimate objects, not reckoning with their feelings and interests. Thus he turns people against him but he does not understand why. Ritella softens his authoritarianism, tuning him up to a warmer attitude. She advises to be diplomatic, calms him down, releases his irritability by jokes and compliments made at the right moment. At the same time she creates the atmosphere of politeness, being aristocratic, 'keeping aloof', regulates distance in communication, as soon as she feels the partner is ready to insult her. In this way Ritella avoids possible confrontation.

    Ritella's ideal partner tends to doubt not only the good attitude of others towards him, but also noble motives of others. He rather notices people’s negative traits more than positive ones. Sometimes he is excessively suspicious, afraid of treason, and for this reason tends to surround himself by favorites whom he trusts. Ritella neutralizes his prejudice by her trustful and kind manner of communication, neutralizing his suspicions by assertions of her loyalty.

    Ritella is capable of choosing a moment for sudden decisive actions, which discourages opponents, and this makes het useful to her partner, who appreciates her original advice. Ritella attracts people and manipulates their feelings and relations. She looks forward and prepares for the future in advance. She finds necessary acquaintances and fulfillers for her projects. Unlike her partner, she is optimistic and can inspire others with her optimism, especially her dual, who values interests in concrete affairs over all and so expects from others dirty tricks rather than assistance. It is for this reason he loses adherents and falls into depression caused by bad foreboding.

    Ritella's shortcoming is her inclination to blame others considering them guilty of her own misfortunes. Her partner easily calms her down by threatening to punish the offenders and to restore justice. Sometimes he puts Ritella to shame, teaches her lessons of courage and endurance. Together with such a strong personality Ritella is ready to overcome everything, believing in success. She needs moral support, without which her vital tonus decreases. She needs, too, a support of an authoritative partner, who understands instructions and rules, possesses penetrative skills, realism and practical intelligence.
    (B and C to come)
    Last edited by Joy; 12-10-2008 at 10:58 AM.

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    You were a bit late in posting that disclaimer on top, Joy.
    Last edited by UDP; 12-09-2008 at 06:01 PM.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    A.) Ritella's ideal partnet is decisive and purposeful, brave and full of initiative. He is capable of persevering a long time towards his goal, overcoming any difficulties at his way.
    I like this. I like "achieving" things.

    He is not always capable of taming his emotions and outbursts of wrath,
    People like this scare me, esp. if it's directed at me. I can handle emotional outbursts if and only if the person separates his logical/rational arguments from that and treats it as just a "side effect." If you are going to use emotions TO argue against me, then you'll just make me think you're an infuriating dumb-ass.

    but can subordinate others to him and make them do what he wants.
    NO. This would be okay if it wasn't worded as "subordinate others" and "do what he wants," and more like "lead/guide people."

    Ritella lacks such decisiveness; she admires strong people possessing leadership skills. She tries to be useful to them by giving cautionary advice.
    Yes.

    Ritella foresees very well the negative outcome of certain actions of her ideal partner. She watches people's emotional reactions and then suggests to her partner measures to influence them. Without such advice her partner may act precipitately.
    This is right, except "influence" is very much the wrong word. I don't want to influence anyone. That sounds manipulative? If you changed that to "ameliorate things" that would be sufficiently accurate.

    He possesses good organizational skills. He has a talent for planning actions, distributing duties and resources.
    this is admirable

    He at the same time lacks diplomacy. He will manipulate people like inanimate objects,
    I easily recognize and actively avoid people who do this sort of thing.

    not reckoning with their feelings and interests. Thus he turns people against him but he does not understand why. Ritella softens his authoritarianism, tuning him up to a warmer attitude. She advises to be diplomatic, calms him down, releases his irritability by jokes and compliments made at the right moment. At the same time she creates the atmosphere of politeness, being aristocratic, 'keeping aloof',
    this part- in and of itself- is good.

    regulates distance in communication, as soon as she feels the partner is ready to insult her. In this way Ritella avoids possible confrontation.
    why would my partner be insulting me? he's supposed to protect me from other people's insults! and i DO "avoid confrontation" with people who do this insulting thing, but I wouldn't avoid it why my partner. Confrontation is the only way to understand "what went wrong" or "can be improved" in a relationship; I'm not a fan of ignoring issues.

    Ritella's ideal partner tends to doubt not only the good attitude of others towards him, but also noble motives of others. He rather notices people’s negative traits more than positive ones. Sometimes he is excessively suspicious, afraid of treason, and for this reason tends to surround himself by favorites whom he trusts. Ritella neutralizes his prejudice by her trustful and kind manner of communication, neutralizing his suspicions by assertions of her loyalty.
    I don't know if I would call that my "ideal partner," but if I helped my partner to think better of people and of humanity, I would feel very....self-actualized?

    Ritella is capable of choosing a moment for sudden decisive actions, which discourages opponents,
    moment for action? No. In every job and activity that I've done, my biggest contributions have been in realizing all the possible ways in which pre-existing systems/operations can be ameliorated by suggesting a novel approach. I don't understand this concept of "moment for action." What are people acting on?

    and this makes het useful to her partnet, who appreciates her original advice.
    this segment- alone- works.

    Ritella attracts people and manipulates their feelings and relations.
    NO. VERY NO. I try to help people to "realize" their TRUE feelings and OPTIMAL relations. Why would I ever want to manipulate people? For my own advantage? My motto is "I just want to be left alone (and in peace)."
    The only time I would ever try to minorly "change" something emotional is if I feel a group of people is being too hostile or counter-productive. Then I would sort of appeal to each party individually and suggest ways in which everyone can be reconciled.

    She looks forward and prepares for the future in advance. She finds necessary acquaintances and fulfillers for her projects. Unlike her partner, she is optimistic and can inspire others with her optimism,
    I guess. Though "preparing for the future" is something that I do better for other people, rather than myself. With myself, I tend to be negative and wallowing and in need of a kick in the ass.

    especially her dual, who values interests in concrete affairs over all and so expects from others dirty tricks rather than assistance. It is for this reason he loses adherents and falls into depression caused by bad foreboding.
    can't comment on this. i don't know my dual.

    Ritella's shortcoming is her inclination to blame others considering them guilty of her own misfortunes.
    UGH NO. My mother does shit like this and I hate it. People need to take responsibility for their own faults, as they so easily do for their strengths. Doing otherwise just seems irresponsible and irrational. And in general, when people criticise me I tend to take it very to heart in a sort of "well there must be an ounce of truth to this. how do i make myself better?" way.

    Her partner easily calms her down by threatening to punish the offenders and to restore justice.
    This is kinda hot.

    Sometimes he puts Ritella to shame, teaches her lessons of courage and endurance.
    what? i don't even understand the reasoning behind this.

    Together with such a strong personality Ritella is ready to overcome everything, believing in success. She needs moral support, without which her vital tonus decreases. She needs, too, a support of an authoritative partner, who understands instructions and rules, possesses penetrative skills, realism and practical intelligence.
    Generally, yeah, I like this. I'm not sure about "authoritative" though. I don't understand people who value "power." I just want to live in my own little world (with my future husband) and be left alone.

    EDIT: Can't wait for my ideal partnet!
    Last edited by Ritella; 12-09-2008 at 06:13 PM.
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    what? i don't even understand the reasoning behind this.
    I think the idea of this is that when "Ritella" is whining about so and so being at fault for her problem with this or that, "Ritella's ideal partner" would sometimes see that she's just being weak and whiny and tell her so. Then she'd toughen up and deal with the problem. It would probably be up the "Ritella's ideal partner" to tell whether she actually needs his help or not (or perhaps if he feels like dealing with it?).

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    btw, my EII sister also scores in the 99.999th percentile on everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Ritella, please read the three following descriptions and discuss the ways in which each of the potential ideal partners would or would not meet your desires and needs. Also discuss whether you feel you would be capable of fulfilling the role that each potential ideal partner needs and how easy/natural/enjoyable it would be for you.
    Okay, is what I did good? I suppose at the end, I could post a summary "response," but maybe I'll wait until discussion on my one-liner responses to do so...
    EII; E6(w5)

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    description party!
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    You'd love that, wouldn't you.
    Actually, I think they are more restraining nowadays.

    When I talk to people about socionics, I try to speak in the most organic terms. I actually wonder that "profiles" might be problematic for people first coming to socionics - there is a great need for "correcting" over-stereotyping that takes place. Descriptions can reinforce viewing things a certain way - like some sort of evidence "see, this is what this says!", but in doing so limits actual understanding. I've been guilty of some of those things myself.

    It's a bit like thinking you can type someone completely by reading what they write online. There are truths there, but it's still filtered.

    What I try to do (and advocate) for people new to socionics at least, is make peole get away from socionics literature and realize what it is, "in real life" that is going on. Some socionics writing, or posts here, can be very very good. But I think it is very important to understand the entire context of what is being said. If you don't have the context, then the quality of understanding is limited. Even good writing can be misunderstood because the reader is not fully aware of the context. Once you are more experienced and have a more fundamental understanding of what socionics is and isn't, you can see more of what some of the writings are about (and that way you can begin to see when an author is writing something very well or poorly). But just reading profiles from the start, I don't really recommend that.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Good advice. For a second there I thought this whole thread might degrade into a debate on the words and context of the descriptions, with certain people interjecting their interpretations into things

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    Delta it is.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Okay, is what I did good? I suppose at the end, I could post a summary "response," but maybe I'll wait until discussion on my one-liner responses to do so...
    Yes, very good. Once you've responded to all of them I'll mention which is which and encourage people who know dual pairs of those types to comment on your responses.

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    Okay, just to throw it out there:
    Brief personal things about me, which I will delete as soon as this thread is over bc it's embarassing and will probably seem conceited. Don't quote:

    I frequently score in the top 0.0..whatever percentiles for most intelligence tests, I got accepted to arguably the most competitive college based solely on academic merit, and I majored in pure Math and attended meetings with noted scholars in the field. I'm not saying this as an "elitist" thing, but to bring up the point that I'm NOT going to seem like the average EII because I'm just not the average person. I mean what are the statistics? Less than half the people in this country go to college?
    Also, wrt Math and college; I would say that I'm attracted to "intellectually rigorous" atmospheres, rather than "aggressive," as some people have interpreted it.

    My parents and sister are all Se valuing, I grew up in NYC, my entire family is Italian Catholic Fascist, my parents used to beat me...
    Okay, so while I don't value Se, I think I've sort of adapted to deal with certain types of it.
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    stuff
    Wow. Yeah, that could explain a lot.
    Last edited by Joy; 12-09-2008 at 07:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Wow. Yeah, that could explain a lot.
    Actually... thinking back...

    Was if you that posted the story about an individual's conversation with her mom? If so, then I should say that the daughter in that story did seem... un-Beta.

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    Apologies for derailing, but did people overlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Okay, just to throw it out there:
    Brief personal things about me, which I will delete as soon as this thread is over bc it's embarassing and will probably seem conceited. Don't quote:
    this part?
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    Ritella's ideal partner is very hard working; he rationally spends his time and does not like getting distracted by extraneous talk. He is very practical and economical. He strives to be competent in business issues, accumulating necessary information on problems interesting to him.
    This is very attractive. I personally hate "extrraneous talk." I really dislike it when people yap my ear off about things that I consider pointless, but at the same time I have serious problems with turning them away. I can only basically tell my sister or my parents "I can't take anymore." I don't need my partner to talk to me when he has absolutely nothing to communicate.

    He tends to take on too many responsibilities. So he needs Ritella, who can suggest, which actions are most promising. Ritella willingly helps in this work, doing it diligently and qualitatively.
    Yes, this tends to be the overwhelming characteristic of all my relations with people. In my last job, I did so much "extra" work for my boss (just because I sincerely wanted to help) that it ended up destroying my health.

    Ritella's ideal partner does not tolerate inferior quality. He likes integrity and uprightness in relations.
    I am SO sensitive to quality in ANYTHING, really. Like, if I have to buy a pair of jeans, it has to be like the nicest possible pair. This sort of upsets me about myself, because I can be really depressed? in my search for quality in everything, esp. when it doesn't meet my expectations. In material objects, I think it can give people the impression that I'm a picky little snot, which would hurt me, because I prefer to be seen as down to earth and because it's just the quality aspect that concerns me. In relations, there has been a real issue with me just learning to accept that relationships aren't "perfect" rather than break them off because of that. In marriage, though, I'm still searching for perfection.

    Ritella, as a rule, is an exceptionally honest and conscientious partner. She willingly processes great quantities of information, draws general conclusions and schedules actions.
    Yes. Again, every single job I've had; this has been my "thing." I particularly like it when people give me the info to process or direct me to a general project. If no one does that, I find it almost impossible to do it for myself; it makes me feel like I'm drowning in TMI. But I really need to be working in order to stay happy.

    Her partner sees planning as a problem. On the one hand, he is sometimes too impatient, on the other – he may be distracted by outside matters, procrastinating on important issues and failing to fulfill them in due time. He accepts this fact very painfully. He needs an undemanding regulator, a provident and prescient partner.
    i can't really comment on this. i can't see why it would bother me.

    The second bright trait of Ritella's ideal partner is his ability to take care of his family's welfare. He strives for a high standard of living. He demands quality and possesses well-developed aesthetic taste. He is a kind of gourmet, likes tasty and healthy meals; parties for his close friends or family members organized by him are distinguished by very high taste.
    I LOVE this. I am obsessed with quality in food and aesthetics. I think I have very good taste, actually, but I want someone to "okay" it. I like the part about "close friends or family members." I don't enjoy parties for aquaintances or for social networking or something. I wish I could throw parties like this MYSELF, but I'm too shy and self-conscious. I'd be worried that everyone thought the food sucked and then they'd hate me.

    Ritella is very reserved in communication. She is devoted to her narrow but stable circle of friends.
    reserved initially; not once i get to know people (i.e. likes/dislikes, how they react to things..). For example, consider how much "quieter" I was when I first started posting.
    "Narrow but stable" circle is VERY accurate.

    She possesses 'clever hands' and interest in various technologies, culinary and medical recipes. While her partner creates comfort on a whole, Ritella perfects all the details.
    YES. In fact, in work with my ENFP best friend, I am very good at "perfecting" things. For example, he is the principal of a school. Everything about the school is HIS idea; but I was very good at suggesting improvements on a smaller scale and "refining" his ideas.
    Also, wrt the "clever hands," I knit, crochet, sew, fix clothing for my friends, bake (but only if it's intricate), computer program, sometimes garden...

    Ritella is very attentive towards people,
    Yes, but sometimes I can be oblivious, like when I'm tired or hard at work. it's really painful to me when people think i've been insensitive the ONE moment i was more focused on me.

    which is not applicable to her partner who is interested more in results of work and communication rather than in the very process. For this reason her partner, who is usually reserved and polite, may give way to irritation and wrath, especially when people take his precious time. At such moments he loses the feeling of tactfulness, may become blunt.
    this is a little creepy to me. i guess it depends on how it plays out.

    He needs an ever-reserved, diplomatic and peaceful partner by his side. Ritella softens ethical mistakes of her partnet, performs peacemaking activities. By her persuasions she softens harsh behavior of her partnet, appeals to his inborn nobility, magnanimity and conscience. By doing this, she facilitates communication with others. This helps Ritella's partner to keep stable the circle of his business partners.
    YES. In fact, in my last job, there were constant disputes between teachers and parents. A lot of the problems, IMO, were caused by simple miscommunications. The principle saw that I was very good at clarifying the problem and working toward a positive, constructive agreeement; so much so, that he used to put me in meetings, just to do this, even when I had no reason to be there.

    Ritella also foresees well the outcome of undertakings and relations. By her advice she helps her improvident partner to avoid many mistakes, the main of which is wishful thinking, especially about health and relations with people. She recognizes well the perspectives of new theories or technologies and she is among the first to struggle for their implementation.
    Yes. In fact, I just told my best friend not to hire a guy because I thought he was lying and would bail on him in a month. And that is exactly what happened! My friend didn't take my advice; but I don't blame him. I can't force people to heed my advice; all I can do is warn people about negative consequences and inform them so that they can make the best possible decision, as well as provide unconditional support for when/if things go wrong.


    Ritella's partner is conservative enough in his views, and without such support he tends to fall into routine, may even stop in his development, stagnate in everyday chores, or lose his spirituality, romantic feelings and interest towards intellectual novelties.

    On the other hand, he is capable of thinking clearly and logically, of noticing what’s most important, of modernizing inefficient, outdated structures or technologies. He strives for higher quality and better outcome. Ritella needs such a partner, who switches his attention from trivialities to more global undertakings. In addition, he attracts her as a protector and leader.
    Umm... Everyone thinks I'm OCD BECAUSE i over-focus on "trivialities." Besides Prozac, the only thing I've found that help me get out of this is interacting with people who are dealing with "more important matters." Then I feel really healthy and happy.

    Ritella is a very softhearted and sensitive person. Het kindness is often misused by the others.
    I don't think I'm really "soft." I don't know if people misuse me. My mom thinks they do, but to me, I KNOW they do. I'm not naiive, it's just...I give people the benefit of the doubt. People can use you AND be good-intentioned.
    For example, I let my friend live with me for 2 months gratis when she was unemployed. She was using me, but I don't think she wasn't also my friend.

    By contrast, Ritella's partner is full of initiative, but does not like when others impose their own initiatives on him. He may show aggression, but hardly perceives aggression of the others.
    no idea

    Ritella, in spite of her indecisiveness, defends her own interests silently but impertinently, if she is sure of her being right.
    Yes, though not "silently." But, for example, in things regarding the ethics of this forum and its moderation, I am VERY SURE that I am right.

    In practical affairs she is not very capable of protecting her interests, letting her more penetrative partner do it.
    i don't even know what day it is...

    She tolerates her partner's inability to praise, make compliments, which is caused by his insufficient understanding of individual traits and human potential capabilities. Ritella understands this aspect and considers it to be so obvious that she does not require words of approval.
    ugh. i dunno about this. i think it might hurt my self-esteem. i sort of need to know i'm valued. but people don't really need to SAY it.

    She likes the integrity and hard work of her short-spoken partner.

    This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people, hard work, and attention to details and integrity in everything.
    YES YES YES. My dad's quote for me since age 4 is "you just want to be left alone and do your own thing."
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

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    wow LOL... yeah it's about damn time Ritella learned "some lessons of courage and endurance" wtf

    I've gotten to know her... She is awesome and she's also correct about her own type...

    Many ppl here have unreal conceptions about INFjs... as religious nuts who don't think at all, who sit inside doing dishes all day... That's obviously not Ritella... Thus the confusion.

    Ritella is highly intelligent and cultured... She's been all over the world and interacted with all sorts of ppl...

    Ppl here notice Ritella's intellectual tenacity, and say it's a reason she cannot be INFj... I doubt many INFjs enter Harvard--like Ritella did--and after four years, exit this forum's weak INFj stereotype...

    To know Ritella and read the description of ENFj-ISTj relations--lol... no...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    wow LOL... yeah it's about damn time Ritella learned "some lessons of courage and endurance" wtf

    I've gotten to know her... She is awesome and she's also correct about her own type...

    Many ppl here have unreal conceptions about INFjs... as religious nuts who don't think at all, who sit inside doing dishes all day... That's obviously not Ritella... Thus the confusion.

    Ritella is highly intelligent and cultured... She's been all over the world and interacted with all sorts of ppl...

    Ppl here notice Ritella's intellectual tenacity, and say it's a reason she cannot be INFj... I doubt many INFjs enter Harvard--like Ritella did--and after four years, exit this forum's weak INFj stereotype...

    To know Ritella and read the description of ENFj-ISTj relations--lol... no...
    Yeah, as I was translating the EIE/LSI duality description I was thinking that, 1.) the authors don't seem to like EIE's or LSI's very much , and 2.) even based on what little I know of Ritella, this doesn't sound like something she'd be happy with.

    (Let's not say which description is which yet though, not until she's evaulated each of them.)

  19. #19
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    My INFj friend is highly intelligent also. An engineering graduate who has since specialised in programming. He makes one helluva chess partner. The two of us are exhausted after a game. Oh wait, now I sound really sad.

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    If Ritella is INFj (which I find most plausible overall), I think she would be of the extreme Ne subtype (bordering Alpha). If this is so, it makes sense why Joy would see/feel strong similarities between Ritella and Carla, especially if Carla herself is closer to Ne than Ti.

    I'm not sure how to explain Ritella's resonance with Beta NFs, though. I would be interested to find the explanation for that.

    As for comparisons between Ritella and other Deltas, particularly Delta NFs - Just in case anyone is doing so, I'm not sure that I should be used as a comparison benchmark, not unless you take into account non-socionic factors and also the likely large difference in subtype (I believe that I'm relatively closer to the extreme end of Fi). Perhaps better Delta NFs to compare her to might be Kim or Slacker Mom as they seem to come from more similar perspectives, have similar openness/bluntness (although, Ritella does seem "sharper" than even they). Mune or Ssmall might sort of work, too, though they come across to me as significantly "softer" and more easygoing. Oh, and though many of you might not remember her, Megan strikes me as a good possible comparison. She had a similar, hm, "sharper", breaking-stereotypes sort of attitude and feel, as well was (and probably still is?) a competitive high achiever.
    Last edited by Minde; 12-09-2008 at 06:56 PM. Reason: misspell
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    If Ritella is INFj (which I find most plausible overall), I think she would be of the extreme Ne subtype (bordering Alpha). If this is so, it makes sense why Joy would see/feel strong similarities between Ritella and Carla, especially if Carla herself is closer to Ne than Ti.
    I was just thinking the exact same thing, actually.

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    Out of curiosity, I've never actually seen/heard the case for INFj for Ritella. Is there a place where it's been discussed in detail?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    For the record, I don't associate myself with the notions of subtypes that exist on the forums. I don't believe myself to be closer to Ne than Ti.
    That's fine. I don't expect everyone to, which is why I presented it as my personal opinion as opposed to an established fact. Subtypes as I understand them make sense to me, though, and help me make sense of a lot of things, so I will continue to use them in my own views. I hope that doesn't bother you.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    B.) Ritella's ideal partner is very hard working; he rationally spends his time and does not like getting distracted by extraneous talk. He is very practical and economical. He strives to be competent in business issues, accumulating necessary information on problems interesting to him. He tends to take on too many responsibilities. So he needs Ritella, who can suggest, which actions are most promising. Ritella willingly helps in this work, doing it diligently and qualitatively.

    Ritella's ideal partner does not tolerate inferior quality. He likes integrity and uprightness in relations. Ritella, as a rule, is an exceptionally honest and conscientious partner. She willingly processes great quantities of information, draws general conclusions and schedules actions. Her partner sees planning as a problem. On the one hand, he is sometimes too impatient, on the other – he may be distracted by outside matters, procrastinating on important issues and failing to fulfill them in due time. He accepts this fact very painfully. He needs an undemanding regulator, a provident and prescient partner.

    The second bright trait of Ritella's ideal partner is his ability to take care of his family's welfare. He strives for a high standard of living. He demands quality and possesses well-developed aesthetic taste. He is a kind of gourmet, likes tasty and healthy meals; parties for his close friends or family members organized by him are distinguished by very high taste. Ritella is very reserved in communication. She is devoted to her narrow but stable circle of friends. She possesses 'clever hands' and interest in various technologies, culinary and medical recipes. While her partner creates comfort on a whole, Ritella perfects all the details.

    Ritella is very attentive towards people, which is not applicable to her partner who is interested more in results of work and communication rather than in the very process. For this reason her partner, who is usually reserved and polite, may give way to irritation and wrath, especially when people take his precious time. At such moments he loses the feeling of tactfulness, may become blunt. He needs an ever-reserved, diplomatic and peaceful partner by his side. Ritella softens ethical mistakes of her partnet, performs peacemaking activities. By her persuasions she softens harsh behavior of her partnet, appeals to his inborn nobility, magnanimity and conscience. By doing this, she facilitates communication with others. This helps Ritella's partner to keep stable the circle of his business partners.

    Ritella also foresees well the outcome of undertakings and relations. By her advice she helps her improvident partner to avoid many mistakes, the main of which is wishful thinking, especially about health and relations with people. She recognizes well the perspectives of new theories or technologies and she is among the first to struggle for their implementation.

    Ritella's partner is conservative enough in his views, and without such support he tends to fall into routine, may even stop in his development, stagnate in everyday chores, or lose his spirituality, romantic feelings and interest towards intellectual novelties.

    On the other hand, he is capable of thinking clearly and logically, of noticing what’s most important, of modernizing inefficient, outdated structures or technologies. He strives for higher quality and better outcome. Ritella needs such a partner, who switches his attention from trivialities to more global undertakings. In addition, he attracts her as a protector and leader.

    Ritella is a very softhearted and sensitive person. Het kindness is often misused by the others. By contrast, Ritella's partner is full of initiative, but does not like when others impose their own initiatives on him. He may show aggression, but hardly perceives aggression of the others. Ritella, in spite of her indecisiveness, defends her own interests silently but impertinently, if she is sure of her being right. In practical affairs she is not very capable of protecting her interests, letting her more penetrative partner do it. She tolerates her partner's inability to praise, make compliments, which is caused by his insufficient understanding of individual traits and human potential capabilities. Ritella understands this aspect and considers it to be so obvious that she does not require words of approval. She likes the integrity and hard work of her short-spoken partner.

    This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people, hard work, and attention to details and integrity in everything.
    (C's on the way...)

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    C.) Ritella's ideal partner is good at scheduling arrangements and actions for the nearest future, thinking over the details in advance. Such a concrete program of actions is exactly what Ritella needs, who is 'sinking in doubts'. His strict logic of facts leaves no space for exaggerations and conjectures. His cold realism calms down his restless partner, who likes his love for stability and order in everything. Ritella finds him a helper, support and 'good haven' in her stormy emotional life. She easily allows her partner to guide her in practical issues, although she may be obstinate in ideas. In addition, she distracts her partnet from being too scrupulous in the details, focusing him on general rules and the final objective.

    Ritella's partner possesses well-developed will power. He is capable of overcoming any difficulties with enviable courage and stoicism. He is capable of 'holding in hands' Ritella, never allowing her to lose heart, to lose faith for success. He can mobilize himself and others in critical situations, but in everyday life he is enduring, can wait for natural upshot, without hurrying up events. He believes in educative meaning of personal experience.

    Ritella's ideal partner does not trust the feelings of the others. Trying not to show it, he is sometimes courteous and agreeable in communication. But he quickly gets tired of such efforts and needs solitude, switching his attention to work. He likes a partner like Ritella, who is capable of ardent expression of her feelings. Such behavior leaves no space for doubts. In this case he has only to watch that these feelings remain stable, and to take care of the one whom needs him so much. Feeling coldness from the side of others, he shrinks into himself, becomes inaccessible and touchy. He can keep this pain inside for a long time, and this may even result in quarrels for nothing, for reasons seemingly quite irrelevant to the real problem. Ritella also needs emotional discharging and is quite capable of provoking quarrels.

    Another weak point of Ritella's partner is his inability to understand hidden motivations of people's behavior. This makes him mistrustful and reticent, and sometimes too suspicious. He may blame someone for things they've never done, and changing his mind may prove to be very difficult. On the other hand, he may underestimate a possible danger, may not mention either positive or negative perspectives of development of a situation. For this reason he may be blindly careless, hoping for victory of common sense. He has difficulties with due evaluation of people's potential capabilities, new ideas or non-traditional approaches. Others may see him as being too conservative or too dogmatic. Ritella, who foresees all of this, gives advises at the right time, helps by deeds, takes preventive actions and explains the possible outcome of all undertakings.

    Ritella is capable of emotionally influencing people, of inspiring them with her ideas. She 'calculates' in advance all the options of exiting a critical situation. She is a person with a spiritual nature and she constantly strives for self-development. This in fact saves her partner from falling into a rut, which is characteristic of him because of his wish to put everything in order and then to change nothing. Ritella likes great undertakings but does not evaluate her forces. She needs her partner's advice on taking business actions, on economy and rationality in spending money, on the use and quality of things. She needs a person, who will share with her responsibility and help in overcoming all the difficulties she has taken upon herself. Nobody can do it as efficiently as her dual.

    Ritella sometimes lacks will power and is undemanding of others concerning fulfillment of concrete work. She willingly gives people small errands, which many of them forget to fulfill – but not her ideal partner! He is demanding of himself and others. He can organize the working process and achieve results. And Ritella, getting thus inspired by him, can fulfill a huge volume of work in a short time, and so never disappoints her demanding partner.

    Ritella's weak point is her neglect in taking care of her own health and mental rest.She is afraid of being unaesthetic; discomfort in surrounding conditions or in her own appearance really unsettles her. Her partner undertakes the issues of material security, creates comfort, advises concerning the partner's appearance, quality of foods etc. He is a good housemaster.

    In general, what this dual pair is distinguished by is a certain 'aristocracy' and isolation from others, a complicated emotional life and fidelity to the sense of duty. One more mutual requirement of these types to each other: be prudent in your actions! For them 'imprudent' means 'not one of us', for they strive to avoid any uncertainty.
    dasdsfsd

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    yay, last paragraph.
    joy, if you REALLY want, I can do others, but hopefully you'll have come to a conclusion from these...

    C.)
    Ritella's ideal partner is good at scheduling arrangements and actions for the nearest future, thinking over the details in advance. Such a concrete program of actions is exactly what Ritella needs, who is 'sinking in doubts'. His strict logic of facts leaves no space for exaggerations and conjectures. His cold realism calms down his restless partner, who likes his love for stability and order in everything. Ritella finds him a helper, support and 'good haven' in her stormy emotional life. She easily allows her partner to guide her in practical issues, although she may be obstinate in ideas. In addition, she distracts her partnet from being too scrupulous in the details, focusing him on general rules and the final objective.
    umm. wow. almost everything about this sounds foreign and scary. "details," "concrete program of action," "cold realism," "love for stability".... that sounds TERRIBLE! Umm...I don't really have a "stormy emotional life." I have a "stormy mental status" that sometimes makes me THINK i have a stormy emotional life, but really I'm fairly emotionally even keeled. Like if I love someone, that's it. Very constant. "Obstinate in ideas" is right, and so is my focus on generality and the final objective, but it sounds like my partner is a brick wall.

    Ritella's partner possesses well-developed will power. He is capable of overcoming any difficulties with enviable courage and stoicism. He is capable of 'holding in hands' Ritella, never allowing her to lose heart, to lose faith for success. He can mobilize himself and others in critical situations, but in everyday life he is enduring, can wait for natural upshot, without hurrying up events. He believes in educative meaning of personal experience.
    Yeah, I mean I need someone to mobilize me to actually DO something, because I just tend to sit in my bed and stare at my ceiling, but this sounds....very rigid and like i wouldn't be receptive to it. Basically I dated a guy (ESTP) once who tried to get me to snap out of it by baiting and taunting me, and it just made me retreat further. I just want someone to take care of me.

    Ritella's ideal partner does not trust the feelings of the others. Trying not to show it, he is sometimes courteous and agreeable in communication. But he quickly gets tired of such efforts and needs solitude, switching his attention to work.
    I like the work ethic here.

    He likes a partner like Ritella, who is capable of ardent expression of her feelings. Such behavior leaves no space for doubts. In this case he has only to watch that these feelings remain stable, and to take care of the one whom needs him so much.
    I care very deeply, but I'm only really EXPRESSIVE in private, with someone I can trust, and when it feels sincere.

    Feeling coldness from the side of others, he shrinks into himself, becomes inaccessible and touchy. He can keep this pain inside for a long time, and this may even result in quarrels for nothing, for reasons seemingly quite irrelevant to the real problem. Ritella also needs emotional discharging and is quite capable of provoking quarrels.
    No no NO. This is what my mom does that pisses me off. Don't fight with innocent people just because you're in a pissy shit mood yourself. Stop victimizing everyone because one particular person is pissing you off. I can understand if that puts you in a "disagreeable mood" and you have to lock yourself in your room for 3 days until you get over it, but you have no right to blame me.

    Another weak point of Ritella's partner is his inability to understand hidden motivations of people's behavior. This makes him mistrustful and reticent, and sometimes too suspicious. He may blame someone for things they've never done, and changing his mind may prove to be very difficult. On the other hand, he may underestimate a possible danger, may not mention either positive or negative perspectives of development of a situation. For this reason he may be blindly careless, hoping for victory of common sense. He has difficulties with due evaluation of people's potential capabilities, new ideas or non-traditional approaches. Others may see him as being too conservative or too dogmatic. Ritella, who foresees all of this, gives advises at the right time, helps by deeds, takes preventive actions and explains the possible outcome of all undertakings.
    i am quite good at this, actually. *pats herself on the back*

    Ritella is capable of emotionally influencing people, of inspiring them with her ideas. She 'calculates' in advance all the options of exiting a critical situation. She is a person with a spiritual nature and she constantly strives for self-development. This in fact saves her partner from falling into a rut, which is characteristic of him because of his wish to put everything in order and then to change nothing. Ritella likes great undertakings but does not evaluate her forces. She needs her partner's advice on taking business actions, on economy and rationality in spending money, on the use and quality of things. She needs a person, who will share with her responsibility and help in overcoming all the difficulties she has taken upon herself. Nobody can do it as efficiently as her dual.
    I influence people, why? for my own power or to help them self-actualize? If the latter, yes. If the former, why the hell do I want power over others? Self-development is good; that's very me. Why does my partner want to "change nothing"? I want to kill this person. I'm actually very good at "evaluating forces" and understanding "the use and quality of things," so that part doesn't apply to me.

    Ritella sometimes lacks will power and is undemanding of others concerning fulfillment of concrete work. She willingly gives people small errands, which many of them forget to fulfill – but not her ideal partner! He is demanding of himself and others. He can organize the working process and achieve results. And Ritella, getting thus inspired by him, can fulfill a huge volume of work in a short time, and so never disappoints her demanding partner.
    this is generally ok. i feel sorta bad making people "run errands" for me though, but if they REALLY don't mind, then it's very appreciated.

    Ritella's weak point is her neglect in taking care of her own health and mental rest.She is afraid of being unaesthetic; discomfort in surrounding conditions or in her own appearance really unsettles her. Her partner undertakes the issues of material security, creates comfort, advises concerning the partner's appearance, quality of foods etc. He is a good housemaster.
    This i agree with. I try really hard to take care of my health, but I do get into self-destructive bouts and then EVERY aspect of my life comes basically tumbling down as a result. I'm not so sure I care about looking "unaesthetic." I frequently do things that I'm sure some people, like my mother, would consider tacky, like umm..I dunno...going to a really high end designer store after I go to the gym. I'm sure people look at me like "WTF?" but my attitude is sort of like "well, i don't smell, nor do I look like I do. Yeah, I'm not dressed up, but I look natural and I know what I look like dressed up, so who cares?"
    OTOH I can be incredibly sensitive if I even think that someone thinks I'm unattractive, but that's different than how I'm dressed...

    In general, what this dual pair is distinguished by is a certain 'aristocracy' and isolation from others, a complicated emotional life and fidelity to the sense of duty. One more mutual requirement of these types to each other: be prudent in your actions! For them 'imprudent' means 'not one of us', for they strive to avoid any uncertainty.
    this is ok except for maybe "aristocracy" and definitely no to "complicated emotional life." The last sentence about prudence makes no sense to me; basically doesn't even compute in my world view.
    EII; E6(w5)

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    TBH, I'm really surprised that NO ONE has suggested INTJ. That was the only ever type I was even moderately considering as an alternative for a very brief blip of time.
    EII; E6(w5)

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    You're not, but let's talk about how we want to have sex with you

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    lol. uh, yeah. i look super hot there; esp. that 2nd video. can't you just see that in Sports Illustrated?
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    You're not, but let's talk about how we want to have sex with you
    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella
    lol. uh, yeah. i look super hot there; esp. that 2nd video. can't you just see that in Sports Illustrated?
    LOL <3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    please read the three following descriptions and discuss the ways in which each of the potential ideal partners would or would not meet your desires and needs. Also discuss whether you feel you would be capable of fulfilling the role that each potential ideal partner needs and how easy/natural/enjoyable it would be for you.
    that's always confusing for me i think.. what i've desired/sounded ideal was not my own dual pair. I think if you're strongly influenced by outside factors, maybe things not related to socionic type, it might sound like a different duality.

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    sounds really fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    sounds really fun
    im bored of se polr.

    I remember a former user here said there should be a porn site called "abusing the fourth".

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    For Joy and anyone who still doesn't think I'm EII:

    I guess you can only take my word for it, but having just read Strativiskeya's Te DS description for EII, I can say that I was in awe at how well it described my work tendencies and philosophies. It basically said verbatim things that I've expressed when describing my working style in interviews and to others. Spot on. I really don't think there's anything she missed.

    So, the reason my psychiatrist gave for my medication was "low grade OCD/anxiety/perfectionistic tendencies," which is right, but in truth, this Te DS description is far more accurate and illustrative of the actual problematic tendencies. Basically, if you take everything said to the most destructive extreme, you get my past work habits. For example, I've gone several months doing nothing but staring at my ceiling because I'm too avoidant of doing anything for fear that I'll turn it into a never-ending quest for perfection. I used to switch between periods of complete submersion in my work and extremely anal retentive habits and those of burn-out and complete inertia to doing anything. Anyway, I think it makes perfect socionics sense that I was essentially "unhealthy" as a result of putting 95% of my energy (and yes, it's really that high) on my DS function.
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    For Joy and anyone who still doesn't think I'm EII:

    I guess you can only take my word for it, but having just read Strativiskeya's Te DS description for EII, I can say that I was in awe at how well it described my work tendencies and philosophies. It basically said verbatim things that I've expressed when describing my working style in interviews and to others. Spot on. I really don't think there's anything she missed.

    So, the reason my psychiatrist gave for my medication was "low grade OCD/anxiety/perfectionistic tendencies," which is right, but in truth, this Te DS description is far more accurate and illustrative of the actual problematic tendencies. Basically, if you take everything said to the most destructive extreme, you get my past work habits. For example, I've gone several months doing nothing but staring at my ceiling because I'm too avoidant of doing anything for fear that I'll turn it into a never-ending quest for perfection. I used to switch between periods of complete submersion in my work and extremely anal retentive habits and those of burn-out and complete inertia to doing anything. Anyway, I think it makes perfect socionics sense that I was essentially "unhealthy" as a result of putting 95% of my energy (and yes, it's really that high) on my DS function.
    That reminded me of the issues I had with one EII. The EII likes clarity, but, at the same time, gets so caught up on perfection and "accuracy" that the end result is lost or even misconstrued.

    How were you putting 95% of your energy on your DS function? As in, what does that mean?

    (I think) I can somewhat relate, in terms of focusing so much on moral matters which would stagnate me.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

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    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    For Joy and anyone who still doesn't think I'm EII:

    I guess you can only take my word for it, but having just read Strativiskeya's Te DS description for EII, I can say that I was in awe at how well it described my work tendencies and philosophies. It basically said verbatim things that I've expressed when describing my working style in interviews and to others. Spot on. I really don't think there's anything she missed.

    So, the reason my psychiatrist gave for my medication was "low grade OCD/anxiety/perfectionistic tendencies," which is right, but in truth, this Te DS description is far more accurate and illustrative of the actual problematic tendencies. Basically, if you take everything said to the most destructive extreme, you get my past work habits. For example, I've gone several months doing nothing but staring at my ceiling because I'm too avoidant of doing anything for fear that I'll turn it into a never-ending quest for perfection. I used to switch between periods of complete submersion in my work and extremely anal retentive habits and those of burn-out and complete inertia to doing anything. Anyway, I think it makes perfect socionics sense that I was essentially "unhealthy" as a result of putting 95% of my energy (and yes, it's really that high) on my DS function.
    I'd caution against reading a type description and thinking "so that's what's wrong with me!" (reading description of Ne dominance had me thinking I was ILE for a little while for precisely this reason). Especially a function fuction that's supposed to be valued, lol. Your "problem areas" should probably seem more related to your PoLR than your DS function (though I am aware that Strativiskeya tends to put things related to one function in the description of another). ENxp Si is very similar in it's weaknesses to ENxj Si, but I an ENxj is going to be more consciously and painfully aware of those problems.

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    lol. that killed me.
    EII; E6(w5)

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