Ritella's dual

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Has anyone suggested INFj yet?

[Ritella]

yay, last paragraph.
joy, if you REALLY want, I can do others, but hopefully you'll have come to a conclusion from these...

C.)

Ritella's ideal partner is good at scheduling arrangements and actions for the nearest future, thinking over the details in advance. Such a concrete program of actions is exactly what Ritella needs, who is 'sinking in doubts'. His strict logic of facts leaves no space for exaggerations and conjectures. His cold realism calms down his restless partner, who likes his love for stability and order in everything. Ritella finds him a helper, support and 'good haven' in her stormy emotional life. She easily allows her partner to guide her in practical issues, although she may be obstinate in ideas. In addition, she distracts her partnet from being too scrupulous in the details, focusing him on general rules and the final objective.

umm. wow. almost everything about this sounds foreign and scary. "details," "concrete program of action," "cold realism," "love for stability".... that sounds TERRIBLE! Umm...I don't really have a "stormy emotional life." I have a "stormy mental status" that sometimes makes me THINK i have a stormy emotional life, but really I'm fairly emotionally even keeled. Like if I love someone, that's it. Very constant. "Obstinate in ideas" is right, and so is my focus on generality and the final objective, but it sounds like my partner is a brick wall.

Ritella's partner possesses well-developed will power. He is capable of overcoming any difficulties with enviable courage and stoicism. He is capable of 'holding in hands' Ritella, never allowing her to lose heart, to lose faith for success. He can mobilize himself and others in critical situations, but in everyday life he is enduring, can wait for natural upshot, without hurrying up events. He believes in educative meaning of personal experience.

Yeah, I mean I need someone to mobilize me to actually DO something, because I just tend to sit in my bed and stare at my ceiling, but this sounds....very rigid and like i wouldn't be receptive to it. Basically I dated a guy (ESTP) once who tried to get me to snap out of it by baiting and taunting me, and it just made me retreat further. I just want someone to take care of me.

Ritella's ideal partner does not trust the feelings of the others. Trying not to show it, he is sometimes courteous and agreeable in communication. But he quickly gets tired of such efforts and needs solitude, switching his attention to work.

I like the work ethic here.

He likes a partner like Ritella, who is capable of ardent expression of her feelings. Such behavior leaves no space for doubts. In this case he has only to watch that these feelings remain stable, and to take care of the one whom needs him so much.

I care very deeply, but I'm only really EXPRESSIVE in private, with someone I can trust, and when it feels sincere.

Feeling coldness from the side of others, he shrinks into himself, becomes inaccessible and touchy. He can keep this pain inside for a long time, and this may even result in quarrels for nothing, for reasons seemingly quite irrelevant to the real problem. Ritella also needs emotional discharging and is quite capable of provoking quarrels.

No no NO. This is what my mom does that pisses me off. Don't fight with innocent people just because you're in a pissy shit mood yourself. Stop victimizing everyone because one particular person is pissing you off. I can understand if that puts you in a "disagreeable mood" and you have to lock yourself in your room for 3 days until you get over it, but you have no right to blame me.

Another weak point of Ritella's partner is his inability to understand hidden motivations of people's behavior. This makes him mistrustful and reticent, and sometimes too suspicious. He may blame someone for things they've never done, and changing his mind may prove to be very difficult. On the other hand, he may underestimate a possible danger, may not mention either positive or negative perspectives of development of a situation. For this reason he may be blindly careless, hoping for victory of common sense. He has difficulties with due evaluation of people's potential capabilities, new ideas or non-traditional approaches. Others may see him as being too conservative or too dogmatic. Ritella, who foresees all of this, gives advises at the right time, helps by deeds, takes preventive actions and explains the possible outcome of all undertakings.

i am quite good at this, actually. *pats herself on the back*

Ritella is capable of emotionally influencing people, of inspiring them with her ideas. She 'calculates' in advance all the options of exiting a critical situation. She is a person with a spiritual nature and she constantly strives for self-development. This in fact saves her partner from falling into a rut, which is characteristic of him because of his wish to put everything in order and then to change nothing. Ritella likes great undertakings but does not evaluate her forces. She needs her partner's advice on taking business actions, on economy and rationality in spending money, on the use and quality of things. She needs a person, who will share with her responsibility and help in overcoming all the difficulties she has taken upon herself. Nobody can do it as efficiently as her dual.

I influence people, why? for my own power or to help them self-actualize? If the latter, yes. If the former, why the hell do I want power over others? Self-development is good; that's very me. Why does my partner want to "change nothing"? I want to kill this person. I'm actually very good at "evaluating forces" and understanding "the use and quality of things," so that part doesn't apply to me.

Ritella sometimes lacks will power and is undemanding of others concerning fulfillment of concrete work. She willingly gives people small errands, which many of them forget to fulfill – but not her ideal partner! He is demanding of himself and others. He can organize the working process and achieve results. And Ritella, getting thus inspired by him, can fulfill a huge volume of work in a short time, and so never disappoints her demanding partner.

this is generally ok. i feel sorta bad making people "run errands" for me though, but if they REALLY don't mind, then it's very appreciated.

Ritella's weak point is her neglect in taking care of her own health and mental rest.She is afraid of being unaesthetic; discomfort in surrounding conditions or in her own appearance really unsettles her. Her partner undertakes the issues of material security, creates comfort, advises concerning the partner's appearance, quality of foods etc. He is a good housemaster.

This i agree with. I try really hard to take care of my health, but I do get into self-destructive bouts and then EVERY aspect of my life comes basically tumbling down as a result. I'm not so sure I care about looking "unaesthetic." I frequently do things that I'm sure some people, like my mother, would consider tacky, like umm..I dunno...going to a really high end designer store after I go to the gym. I'm sure people look at me like "WTF?" but my attitude is sort of like "well, i don't smell, nor do I look like I do. Yeah, I'm not dressed up, but I look natural and I know what I look like dressed up, so who cares?"
OTOH I can be incredibly sensitive if I even think that someone thinks I'm unattractive, but that's different than how I'm dressed...

In general, what this dual pair is distinguished by is a certain 'aristocracy' and isolation from others, a complicated emotional life and fidelity to the sense of duty. One more mutual requirement of these types to each other: be prudent in your actions! For them 'imprudent' means 'not one of us', for they strive to avoid any uncertainty.

this is ok except for maybe "aristocracy" and definitely no to "complicated emotional life." The last sentence about prudence makes no sense to me; basically doesn't even compute in my world view.

[Ritella]

TBH, I'm really surprised that NO ONE has suggested INTJ. That was the only ever type I was even moderately considering as an alternative for a very brief blip of time.

[crazedrat]

You're not, but let's talk about how we want to have sex with you

[Ritella]

lol. uh, yeah. i look super hot there; esp. that 2nd video. can't you just see that in Sports Illustrated?

[crazedrat]

It doesn't matter, the entire forum wants to fuck you

[strrrng]

You're not, but let's talk about how we want to have sex with you

lol. uh, yeah. i look super hot there; esp. that 2nd video. can't you just see that in Sports Illustrated?

LOL <3

[crazedrat]

But my response wasn't directed at you Jason.
I'm pretty sure an INTj wrote that wiki description.
In general, I consider flaming to be an honest expression of the beast side of man

[jason_m]

But my response wasn't directed at you Jason.
I'm pretty sure an INTj wrote that wiki description.
In general, I consider flaming to be an honest expression of the beast side of man

I'm sorry then. Deleting my post. (I should have used that one on Phaedrus when he was here.)

Jason

[Joy]

Ritella, buy one of these. Seriously.

http://www.google.com/products?um=1&...-8&sa=N&tab=if

[Ritella]

Ritella, buy one of these. Seriously.

http://www.google.com/products?um=1&...-8&sa=N&tab=if

oh wow, that's such a good idea. i didn't even know these things existed. thanks!

[Ritella]

so, umm Joy? anyone else?

[Ms. Kensington]

Is that him and you in your avatar?

[Creepy-]

Ritella, do you know any ESTj's in real life? Or ISTp's, for that matter?

[Ritella]

Ritella, do you know any ESTj's in real life? Or ISTp's, for that matter?

I know a couple of ESTJs, but they're in the "older person" category so we don't exactly go out boozing together... One of my best friends is an ISTP.

[Cheesy]

Just watched the video, you remind me of 2 people, my EII friend and a girl whom I used to think was LII but could also have been EII. This is my tentative associative impression. You're also really adorable!

[Ms. Kensington]

please read the three following descriptions and discuss the ways in which each of the potential ideal partners would or would not meet your desires and needs. Also discuss whether you feel you would be capable of fulfilling the role that each potential ideal partner needs and how easy/natural/enjoyable it would be for you.

that's always confusing for me i think.. what i've desired/sounded ideal was not my own dual pair. I think if you're strongly influenced by outside factors, maybe things not related to socionic type, it might sound like a different duality.

[cracka]

I'm her dual... ESFJ with some ESTJ in me... just like she's very much the INFJ with a bit of INTJ thrown in...lol. <- Not really serious but I could see it being sort of true from an interaction standpoint.

[Ms. Kensington]

sounds really fun

[Ritella]

lol. that killed me.

[Ms. Kensington]

sounds really fun

im bored of se polr.

I remember a former user here said there should be a porn site called "abusing the fourth".

[Ritella]

For Joy and anyone who still doesn't think I'm EII:

I guess you can only take my word for it, but having just read Strativiskeya's Te DS description for EII, I can say that I was in awe at how well it described my work tendencies and philosophies. It basically said verbatim things that I've expressed when describing my working style in interviews and to others. Spot on. I really don't think there's anything she missed.

So, the reason my psychiatrist gave for my medication was "low grade OCD/anxiety/perfectionistic tendencies," which is right, but in truth, this Te DS description is far more accurate and illustrative of the actual problematic tendencies. Basically, if you take everything said to the most destructive extreme, you get my past work habits. For example, I've gone several months doing nothing but staring at my ceiling because I'm too avoidant of doing anything for fear that I'll turn it into a never-ending quest for perfection. I used to switch between periods of complete submersion in my work and extremely anal retentive habits and those of burn-out and complete inertia to doing anything. Anyway, I think it makes perfect socionics sense that I was essentially "unhealthy" as a result of putting 95% of my energy (and yes, it's really that high) on my DS function.

[UDP]

For Joy and anyone who still doesn't think I'm EII:

I guess you can only take my word for it, but having just read Strativiskeya's Te DS description for EII, I can say that I was in awe at how well it described my work tendencies and philosophies. It basically said verbatim things that I've expressed when describing my working style in interviews and to others. Spot on. I really don't think there's anything she missed.

So, the reason my psychiatrist gave for my medication was "low grade OCD/anxiety/perfectionistic tendencies," which is right, but in truth, this Te DS description is far more accurate and illustrative of the actual problematic tendencies. Basically, if you take everything said to the most destructive extreme, you get my past work habits. For example, I've gone several months doing nothing but staring at my ceiling because I'm too avoidant of doing anything for fear that I'll turn it into a never-ending quest for perfection. I used to switch between periods of complete submersion in my work and extremely anal retentive habits and those of burn-out and complete inertia to doing anything. Anyway, I think it makes perfect socionics sense that I was essentially "unhealthy" as a result of putting 95% of my energy (and yes, it's really that high) on my DS function.

That reminded me of the issues I had with one EII. The EII likes clarity, but, at the same time, gets so caught up on perfection and "accuracy" that the end result is lost or even misconstrued.

How were you putting 95% of your energy on your DS function? As in, what does that mean?

(I think) I can somewhat relate, in terms of focusing so much on moral matters which would stagnate me.

[Ritella]

That reminded me of the issues I had with one EII. The EII likes clarity, but, at the same time, gets so caught up on perfection and "accuracy" that the end result is lost or even misconstrued.

well, i was specifically referring to the amount of effort that i put into projects. i have no ability to evaluate the point in which huge amounts of effort produce negligent amounts of benefit. I basically have to be torn away from the project by someone or i'll go on forever.

What you mentioned about "accuracy" I do as well, though, to the best of my knowledge, this has been much to my benefit. I do very well in scientific environments because of this demand for accuracy and precision. I think that actually has more to do with Ne-ego (and strong Ni), than Te-DS, because I can see so many possible other causes for, or implications of, an idea, that I naturally spot assumptions and faulty logical premises or deductions. It may be that this causes the EII to lose sight of the big picture, but it's also possible that she hasn't and that you're just not aware that she's running on two separate tracks in her head. It has actually happened to me where someone thinks that I'm missing the point and I'll go "No, I get that, but I'm also realizing this..."

How were you putting 95% of your energy on your DS function? As in, what does that mean?

Well I was basically working for my entire day, so these preoccupations were taking up all of that time. I'll post the description for reference. Basically the effect of Prozac has been that I'm more aware of when I've approached the point of diminishing returns and there is some objective awareness of when "perfection" is completely unrealistic and my "improvements" will only be visible to me (as well as being okay with the idea of perfection being unrealistic, which I was totally opposed to previously).

[UDP]

It may be thaat this causes the EII to lose sight of the big picture, but it's also possible that she hasn't and that you're just not aware that she's running on two separate tracks in her head. It has actually happened to me often where someone thinks that I'm missing the point and I'll go "no, I get that, but I'm also realizing that..."

Sometimes when that happens between you and I, it's because I am not aware that you realize what is going on - either because I assume you don't know, or, you actually never told me.

[Ritella]

"G F Y?" Thanks for being completely passive aggressive. You can go fuck yourself, as well.

EDIT: that was in reference to UDP's post if anyone was confused.

[UDP]

I told you exactly how I feel, there was nothing passive about it. Apparently you'd like it if I wrote some other reason for editing my post.

[Ritella]

I told you exactly how I feel, there was nothing passive about it. Apparently you'd like it if I wrote some other reason for editing my post.

Writing "G F Y" in the "Edit" section of your post is passive aggressive; a more direct apprach would have been to spell it out to me in the post text.
And, besides, I never wanted or requested that you edit your post; that was by your own volition. I merely said:
"no offense
but can you please stop referring to everything an EII does as cute
?
some things they do are pretty substantial
it's like "hey look. i won the nobel prize!"
"oh that's cute"
"

[UDP]

I spelled it out to you vibrantly clear in our AIM conversation - I was the one who brought it up to you. I figured I'd keep it somewhat private. But apparently you'd rather not do that.

[Ritella]

I spelled it out to you vibrantly clear in our AIM conversation - I was the one who brought it up to you. I figured I'd keep it somewhat private. But apparently you'd rather not do that.

no, you did not tell me to go fuck myself in our AIM convo, and if you think that writing "G F Y" in the edit section was clever because I wouldn't figure out and you'd get away with it (hehe) then that is not private, nor is it direct.
And I am not responding this way because I'm "delicate" or "freaking out." How do you not see that I'm not going to let you dump on me, esp. when I think that you're very clearly being an ass.

[UDP]

no, you did not tell me to go fuck myself in our AIM convo, and if you think that writing "G F Y" in the edit section thinking that I wouldn't figure out and you'd get away with it (hehe) than that is not private, nor is it direct.

You don't understand anything I did.
I didn't say GO FUCK YOURSELF in AIM, but I told you right away, instantly, what my reaction to your statement was, and it wasn't pleasant.
Your assumption that "I thought you wouldn't figure it out" is extremely wrong, and you continue to not want to listen to why I wrote that. That you "seriously think that" is more indicative of you being caught up in some sort of pouting, rather than being reasonable. You're getting caught up about whether I said "go fuck yourself" or not, instead of (omg) looking at the big picture. And you're doing it intentionally, too, which further shows that you just want to be in a bad mood. So, go ahead.

And I am not responding this way because I'm "delicate" or "freaking out." How do you not see that I'm not going to let you dump on me, esp. when I think that you're very clearly being an ass.

You're being very upset now and you think your right, so there's no explaining it to you.

[Minde]

Way to be condescending and dismissive, UDP. Why don't you go ahead and say, "It must be that time of the month" too, while you're at it.

[Ritella]

I'm not interested in continuing this with you. I know from experience that it will take about 3 hours before you've explained your point of view on why you practically exclusively refer to EIIs as cute, and honestly, I get it. I get that you don't mean to be condescending and that those aren't your motives. I was commenting on the fact that you can often come across this way, so you may want to rephrase things, but you're not realizing that I'm merely describing your actions, not your intent.
And no I wasn't assuming (note the presence of the word "if" in that comment), but if you had good intentions for writing "G F Y," then why don't you tell me what they were?

EDIT: I take "cute" as a compliment, but UDP seems to use it to describe everything EIIs do, and that's just...

[strrrng]

Don't blame him! His Ti rule book compelled him to do it.

[Joy]

For Joy and anyone who still doesn't think I'm EII:

I guess you can only take my word for it, but having just read Strativiskeya's Te DS description for EII, I can say that I was in awe at how well it described my work tendencies and philosophies. It basically said verbatim things that I've expressed when describing my working style in interviews and to others. Spot on. I really don't think there's anything she missed.

So, the reason my psychiatrist gave for my medication was "low grade OCD/anxiety/perfectionistic tendencies," which is right, but in truth, this Te DS description is far more accurate and illustrative of the actual problematic tendencies. Basically, if you take everything said to the most destructive extreme, you get my past work habits. For example, I've gone several months doing nothing but staring at my ceiling because I'm too avoidant of doing anything for fear that I'll turn it into a never-ending quest for perfection. I used to switch between periods of complete submersion in my work and extremely anal retentive habits and those of burn-out and complete inertia to doing anything. Anyway, I think it makes perfect socionics sense that I was essentially "unhealthy" as a result of putting 95% of my energy (and yes, it's really that high) on my DS function.

I'd caution against reading a type description and thinking "so that's what's wrong with me!" (reading description of Ne dominance had me thinking I was ILE for a little while for precisely this reason). Especially a function fuction that's supposed to be valued, lol. Your "problem areas" should probably seem more related to your PoLR than your DS function (though I am aware that Strativiskeya tends to put things related to one function in the description of another). ENxp Si is very similar in it's weaknesses to ENxj Si, but I an ENxj is going to be more consciously and painfully aware of those problems.

[strrrng]

I think Ritella's issues with perfectionism and anxiety are more related to being a 6 than anything. It just manifests through the Te lens or whatever.

[Joy]

Just out of curiosity, why six and not one?

[strrrng]

Just out of curiosity, why six and not one?

Precisely what I considered re: that whole issue. The thing is, she seems much more anxiety-driven and unsure of herself, with regards to 'doing the right thing.' Such is the vice of the 6: trying to maintain a solid footing in an insecure world. A 1 would be much more grounded and definite about themselves and work attitude (UDP), rather than paranoid that they would mess up or something. The compliant social styles can get conflated at times, but she seems hella more reactive harmonic than competency. A 1 will basically remain emotionally detached in a stressful situation and try to find some way to efficiently figure it out (without breaking rules). 6's will basically get all anxious and worried, like the ground is slipping from underneath them. She definitely seems like the latter to me.

[strrrng]

oh snap

[Simon Ssmall]

EXCUSE ME?

You are excused!