Physical Attraction/Repulsion

[Creepy-]

Cool. I think it's interesting that you often seem to start to fly off the handle around the forum, but if people actually stick to the topic and address things directly, you often clarify your position and end up expressing a broad tolerance for other people's ways of handling & looking at things. It's taken me a while to get used to, and I think I still am. FWIW, I bet we'd get along IRL !

He does do that - I have noticed INFp's do that a lot, actually. Out in the real world [ha] I got into a debate w an INFp guy I work with [debate as in argument of ideas, not a fight] and he did this exact thing, starting off all closed-minded and aggressive, but he calmed down the longer we went on talking, and in the end we both got something out of it. INFp's are cool that way.

[Steve]

That's ridiculous. Who made that rule? Talk about boresville and a supreme lack of spontaneity. We have to go around like we're all being examined by each other - pulling forth carefully-considered justifications for everything we say? Whatever happened to simply expressing personal preference as evidence of being a human being - someone who differs from everybody else? Making light of something - while knowing perfectly well it's a serious issue to other people - simply because you personally find something humourous about it in the moment? How is that "hiding behind pretenses"? It's just expressing honest, personal reactions in a place where no one is going to be hurt by them. I, for one, have no interest in "demarcating my position and space" (makes me think of a dog marking its territory lol, but w/e). Because my position could change ... and because I'm never going to reach a point of complete objectivity. So I feel foolish being overly vocal and dogmatic on issues of which I don't possess all the facts. But just shutting up entirely about things I haven't analysed in detail is unhealthy and stupid. Maybe it works for you, with your penchant for internal anguish. :-pIt's not irrelevant. I wasn't meaning "personal" as in we all have our unique perspectives blah blah ... I'm talking about an opinion that someone feels is only related to their relationship with the object. For instance you'd feel rather foolish taking to the streets shouting "I love coffee! I love coffee! Hear me!" Yeah - so what. How does that affect me? On the other hand, there's going around expressing a dogmatic belief that everyone who doesn't love coffee is stupid. So I may think a person rude, but not feel compelled to let the world know, because it's simply about my reaction to the person. So I'd feel uncomfortable if I was forced to make a judgment on that person and label them "rude". Not because I'm not willing to stand by my opinions, but because it is just my opinion. I would feel like I'm not necessarily representing reality. Do you know what I mean?Yeah well, exactly. It's about your personal reaction to a person's behaviour - not whether or not it's wrong.

I don't know if this applies to other Si/Ne types but I notice that some opinions and judgments I make carry different weights, and that the context that I choose to express it in is an integral factor in the strength or nature of the judgment itself. How I choose to voice the judgment (or the context I voice the judgment in) is a reflection of the level of conviction/annoyance I have toward the person I'm making the judgment toward. If I think someone is too fat, I'll feel "wow that person is fat", but it's more of an amusement kind of thing, and I'm not "angry" at the person and by saying it loudly with a certain tone in my voice would be expressing a different emotion and inaccurately reflect my level of conviction/annoyance on the matter.

I notice that when I'm talking with my Ti ESTp grandfather, sometimes he'll be like "Do you want it or not?" in response to me talking out contextual stuff weighing into a decision. Sometimes he'll be "Ehhh don't gimme that bullshit - you either like it or you don't" LOL.

In situations where the person is annoying me much more, l ike say I'm in a nice restaurant and someone is conducting business on their cellphone to the point where it's just so obvious they don't give a shit about disturbing other people around them, I may either say something about them really loudly to the people at my table so that the other person could hear anyway, or I may just directly talk to him myself. (In between the first and second option I'd probably talk to the waiters)

I'd say,"Hey pal rent a fucking office, no one wants to hear your loud annoying voice during our dinner". Depending on what ethnic stereotype he fits, I may add in a little comment hinting at cheapness and tailor it to fit his ethnicity.

But to get to this point - I would have to be fucking pissed. The point is, I have different levels of passion/conviction/flexibility with different opinions, and that affects how direct/forceful I want to be about something. If the guy in the restaurant was obnoxious for a little while but then stopped, I may say something sarcastic to the people at my table about how the guy is too cheap to rent a fucking office but buys and sells diamonds (I assume you know what I'm getting at ).

If he happened to hear and got offended, I don't care, because it is what it is - it's not my fault he's affirming a stereotype.

I wonder if this is a thing with Si/Ne types, where we don't have as much of an absolute approach to voicing our judgments. I have noticed with Betas that they just say stuff, what's there in raw form. Actually the overall tone seems consistent when they voice stuff, whereas Alphas' tone seems to be adapting their delivery to the external context and the intensity of the wave at the time.

I do believe in expressing how you feel, and there really isn't an excuse for "oh I was just messing, therefore what I said doesn't count" because you said what you said and the opinion came from somewhere. If you wanted to clarify in a situation where you made a "light-hearted judgment", I suppose you could say "Yes I am surprised by how fat you are, is there a problem?"

I don't know if the sort of "hiding behind" occurs more with Deltas or if there are other factors like enneagram that contribute. I notice that my 9w1 Fi ENFp dad will make politically incorrect observations of things but hold back from expressing them in certain public settings. For example one time when me, him and my two brothers (Te ESTj and Ti INTj) were out for pizza around Christmas time or w/e, the pizza place was decorated with Christmas ornaments. I think I said something like "That would be stupid if they had to put a menorah there too just because there are so many Jews in the neighborhood", and my dad gives me this face like "Heyyyy shhhhh - people can hear". My Te ESTj brother echos this same sentiment. Whereas my Ti INTj bro and I are like "So what? Let them hear - that's my opinion!". I notice this happens a lot when I or my Ti INTj bro have opinions that go against the "established norm of political correctness of what's acceptable to say in public". Either my dad or Te ESTj bro get this sensitive face and tell me to tone it down". When I ask "Who cares if people hear me? Why do I need their respect?" He doesn't answer - can't give a reason, he just gives me that "I should know better" face.

My Ti INTj bro, when he sees them giving that hush hush response, actually raises his voice so that he is more audible, AND emphasizes the words that he knows go against my dad and other bro's sense of what's acceptable to say in public.

[strrrng]

Cool. I think it's interesting that you often seem to start to fly off the handle around the forum, but if people actually stick to the topic and address things directly, you often clarify your position and end up expressing a broad tolerance for other people's ways of handling & looking at things. It's taken me a while to get used to, and I think I still am. FWIW, I bet we'd get along IRL !

Very insightful I think people on the forum should heed this post of Ann's if they want to understand the essential pattern governing how I operate in these types of settings. Niffweed has touched on it before, describing it as a sort of insouciance masking a willingness to defend my positions rationally.

I just want to see where people stand. So I push them, and sort of create smoke screens to see how they react and what they do/don't see. I think people generally need to be polarized.

So most people write off my arguments as volatile rants, while a few get where I'm coming from and respond normally.

And I also don't have the most precise control over Se, so it's sort of the little INFp's attempt to "demarcate his space" while sort of guiding the dynamic of the debate.

So, just shut the fuck up and respond, cause I don't really care how you feel, nor do I expect you to care how I feel. It's the people who operate calmly in complete chaos that I love. Civility, friendliness, proper conduct, etc. are suffocating.

He does do that - I have noticed INFp's do that a lot, actually. Out in the real world [ha] I got into a debate w an INFp guy I work with [debate as in argument of ideas, not a fight] and he did this exact thing, starting off all closed-minded and aggressive, but he calmed down the longer we went on talking, and in the end we both got something out of it. INFp's are cool that way.

I'm not sure exactly what it's related to. I'm certain that it somehow ties to the unfocused Se coming from an IP standpoint, but I can't comment on much more. I remember reading a victim description that mentioned how some victims will act aggressively as a way to be put in their place. Not sure if that (peripherally) relates, lol.

[Rubicon]

I don't know if this applies to other Si/Ne types but I notice that some opinions and judgments I make carry different weights, and that the context that I choose to express it in is an integral factor in the strength or nature of the judgment itself. How I choose to voice the judgment (or the context I voice the judgment in) is a reflection of the level of conviction/annoyance I have toward the person I'm making the judgment toward. If I think someone is too fat, I'll feel "wow that person is fat", but it's more of an amusement kind of thing, and I'm not "angry" at the person and by saying it loudly with a certain tone in my voice would be expressing a different emotion and inaccurately reflect my level of conviction/annoyance on the matter.

I notice that when I'm talking with my Ti ESTp grandfather, sometimes he'll be like "Do you want it or not?" in response to me talking out contextual stuff weighing into a decision. Sometimes he'll be "Ehhh don't gimme that bullshit - you either like it or you don't" LOL.

In situations where the person is annoying me much more, l ike say I'm in a nice restaurant and someone is conducting business on their cellphone to the point where it's just so obvious they don't give a shit about disturbing other people around them, I may either say something about them really loudly to the people at my table so that the other person could hear anyway, or I may just directly talk to him myself. (In between the first and second option I'd probably talk to the waiters)

I'd say,"Hey pal rent a fucking office, no one wants to hear your loud annoying voice during our dinner". Depending on what ethnic stereotype he fits, I may add in a little comment hinting at cheapness and tailor it to fit his ethnicity.

But to get to this point - I would have to be fucking pissed. The point is, I have different levels of passion/conviction/flexibility with different opinions, and that affects how direct/forceful I want to be about something. If the guy in the restaurant was obnoxious for a little while but then stopped, I may say something sarcastic to the people at my table about how the guy is too cheap to rent a fucking office but buys and sells diamonds (I assume you know what I'm getting at ).

If he happened to hear and got offended, I don't care, because it is what it is - it's not my fault he's affirming a stereotype.

I wonder if this is a thing with Si/Ne types, where we don't have as much of an absolute approach to voicing our judgments. I have noticed with Betas that they just say stuff, what's there in raw form. Actually the overall tone seems consistent when they voice stuff, whereas Alphas' tone seems to be adapting their delivery to the external context and the intensity of the wave at the time.

I do believe in expressing how you feel, and there really isn't an excuse for "oh I was just messing, therefore what I said doesn't count" because you said what you said and the opinion came from somewhere. If you wanted to clarify in a situation where you made a "light-hearted judgment", I suppose you could say "Yes I am surprised by how fat you are, is there a problem?"

I don't know if the sort of "hiding behind" occurs more with Deltas or if there are other factors like enneagram that contribute. I notice that my 9w1 Fi ENFp dad will make politically incorrect observations of things but hold back from expressing them in certain public settings. For example one time when me, him and my two brothers (Te ESTj and Ti INTj) were out for pizza around Christmas time or w/e, the pizza place was decorated with Christmas ornaments. I think I said something like "That would be stupid if they had to put a menorah there too just because there are so many Jews in the neighborhood", and my dad gives me this face like "Heyyyy shhhhh - people can hear". My Te ESTj brother echos this same sentiment. Whereas my Ti INTj bro and I are like "So what? Let them hear - that's my opinion!". I notice this happens a lot when I or my Ti INTj bro have opinions that go against the "established norm of political correctness of what's acceptable to say in public". Either my dad or Te ESTj bro get this sensitive face and tell me to tone it down". When I ask "Who cares if people hear me? Why do I need their respect?" He doesn't answer - can't give a reason, he just gives me that "I should know better" face.

My Ti INTj bro, when he sees them giving that hush hush response, actually raises his voice so that he is more audible, AND emphasizes the words that he knows go against my dad and other bro's sense of what's acceptable to say in public.

I try not to say things that offend people, but I don't care about political correctness. It just depends on the situation - who I'm talking to, and what would hurt them individually. Yeah - context is everything. The "rules" are too hard to keep track of anyway. (c:

I've had the same experience with Deltas. Like my LSE Dad is pretty politically incorrect with the family and close friends, but never publically. And my IEE/SLI brothers can make me cringe sometimes. lol E.g. like being over-the-top outwardly respectful to a sweet old lady, yet giving her b.s. answers to everything she asks, trying to make the other laugh. Meh. But they think it's alright because she's none the wiser and likes the attention.

But yeah - people who don't get hung up on "correctness" are refreshing imo. I think most people look to your intentions anyway.

[strrrng]

I wonder if this is a thing with Si/Ne types, where we don't have as much of an absolute approach to voicing our judgments. I have noticed with Betas that they just say stuff, what's there in raw form. Actually the overall tone seems consistent when they voice stuff, whereas Alphas' tone seems to be adapting their delivery to the external context and the intensity of the wave at the time.

I agree. With events, I don't see any external context (that evolves). Actions are what they are, and are only connected on an abstract level. So, once I identify what that abstract process is, nothing else really matters. What you're doing is what you're doing, and I'll point it out in an "appropriate" manner—usually some relative leverage of 'impact' that I see them implementing through their actions.

I do believe in expressing how you feel, and there really isn't an excuse for "oh I was just messing, therefore what I said doesn't count" because you said what you said and the opinion came from somewhere. If you wanted to clarify in a situation where you made a "light-hearted judgment", I suppose you could say "Yes I am surprised by how fat you are, is there a problem?"

This was essentially my position in the earlier debate.

I don't know if the sort of "hiding behind" occurs more with Deltas or if there are other factors like enneagram that contribute. I notice that my 9w1 Fi ENFp dad will make politically incorrect observations of things but hold back from expressing them in certain public settings. For example one time when me, him and my two brothers (Te ESTj and Ti INTj) were out for pizza around Christmas time or w/e, the pizza place was decorated with Christmas ornaments. I think I said something like "That would be stupid if they had to put a menorah there too just because there are so many Jews in the neighborhood", and my dad gives me this face like "Heyyyy shhhhh - people can hear". My Te ESTj brother echos this same sentiment. Whereas my Ti INTj bro and I are like "So what? Let them hear - that's my opinion!". I notice this happens a lot when I or my Ti INTj bro have opinions that go against the "established norm of political correctness of what's acceptable to say in public". Either my dad or Te ESTj bro get this sensitive face and tell me to tone it down". When I ask "Who cares if people hear me? Why do I need their respect?" He doesn't answer - can't give a reason, he just gives me that "I should know better" face.

My Ti INTj bro, when he sees them giving that hush hush response, actually raises his voice so that he is more audible, AND emphasizes the words that he knows go against my dad and other bro's sense of what's acceptable to say in public.

Yeah, I don't know. Typically Si valuing quadras seem more tactful to me, due to that awareness to the external context. But deltas have this quietly righteous correctness about them, where actions are assessed based off of these internal 'rules', so oh, it's fine to be a complete dick (which is essentially who you are, independent of context) around your family, but present a nice image in public. Fuck that. You are who you are. I hate people who bend.

[Sirena]

It's not a mistake to make judgments. It's the idea that you're a bad person if you judge others that is so annoying to me personally. You have to have some way of discriminating who you want to be around and who you don't particularly when in a group of new people you don't know. Sizing people up based on their appearance is imo the quickest, easiest and most accurate way of doing that. It's silly to suggest that there's something wrong with that.

I have always for instance growing up and moving often, when at a new school been able to look around and know who I was going to become friends with, and who I wasn't, right off the bat. This is easy to do, and everyone does it whether or not you realize that you are. You get an idea of what that person is like very quickly. Of course your opinion gets expanded as you learn more about a person, and they may increase or decrease in attractiveness/interestingness/friendship potential as you get to know them, but that initial judgment is where it starts.

Think of the many potentially cool and compatible people you'll miss out on by insisting on judging them superficially. I'm also pretty good at determining compatibility, but I do so based on very different things and a big part of it is intuitive. Maybe that's why my first impulse is to overlook the external and focus on what lies beneath. It's what matters the most to me and it's what I find intriguing and interesting when I interact with someone. Discovering "who they are." Maybe this is an Se/Ne difference.

I don't like to talk about people behind their backs, and would rather keep my opinions to myself, but I've still judged people. And will continue to do so. I really don't think it's something that you can help doing. It's just a natural response when faced with new people.

Cool!

[strrrng]

Think of the many potentially cool and compatible people you'll miss out on by insisting on judging them superficially. I'm also pretty good at determining compatibility, but I do so based on very different things and a big part of it is intuitive. Maybe that's why my first impulse is to overlook the external and focus on what lies beneath. It's what matters the most to me and it's what I find intriguing and interesting when I interact with someone. Discovering "who they are." Maybe this is an Se/Ne difference.

Cool!

http://the16types.info/vbulletin/sho...0&postcount=27

[Sirena]

Ok, but my point here is that your comment on Fe PoLR with regards to Jessica's behaviour doesn't seem very relevant. I don't really care what type she is, but your argument didn't make sense unless you were arguing that she can't be SLI because she cares about appropriate conduct. Jessica has clearly stated that she has an issue with obesity, and because she doesn't go up to obese people and tell them that she thinks their conduct and treatment of themselves is disgusting and wrong that makes her more Fe than Fi? I just don't see where your argument is here.

Not wanting to speak for Cyclops, but I'll go ahead and address what I think he was trying to convey, from my POV. People that value Fe tend to focus more on external expression/behavior rather than internal motivations. In jessica's case, it sounds like she put more value on how she came across to someone than the actual motivation for doing so, as evidenced by thinking it is wrong to call someone a fat-ass (for instance) to their face, but seeing nothing wrong with feeling that way or vocalizing that when the person is not present. In other words, her reason for being nice to the person's face was in her placing value in appearing as a nice person rather than determining that based on some kind of ethical principle.

[Sirena]

http://the16types.info/vbulletin/sho...0&postcount=27

Thanks strrrng. Clearly a difference in values.

[strrrng]

Not wanting to speak for Cyclops, but I'll go ahead and address what I think he was trying to convey, from my POV. People that value Fe tend to focus more on external expression/behavior rather than internal motivations. In jessica's case, it sounds like she put more value on how she came across to someone than the actual motivation for doing so, as evidenced by thinking it is wrong to call someone a fat-ass (for instance) to their face, but seeing nothing wrong with feeling that way or vocalizing that when the person is not present. In other words, her reason for being nice to the person's face was in her placing value in appearing as a nice person rather than determining that based on some kind of ethical principle.

I don't think that example can necessarily be chalked up to a simple Fe/Fi split. Fe isn't intrinsically about ostensible emotional displays, nor is Fi intrinsically about inner motivations; such simplifications only lead to misinterpretations. Each of these functions can evaluate the aforementioned things in different ways (with their respective Ti and Te complimentary functions). As per jessica's specific reasoning, I don't know. It's not as if IxTps go around spouting "factually accurate" but rude comments all day; such is the vice of niffweed and his illusion of Fe polr. Nor is it like ExFjs walk on emotional eggshells. The dichotomy is just too simple and context-dependent to tie it to functions.

Thanks strrrng. Clearly a difference in values.

Yeah. It seems as though Si/Ne quadras need to set up an external context for properties and traits to be assessed through. So, their dynamic connection will be more explicit and directly tied to their physical surroundings (whereas the Ni context is simply tied to latent processes). From here, Ne seems to abstract and divide qualities of objects as disparate correlates of each other, continually rearranging and angling the seemingly infinite number, always throughout the external Si context (whereas objects' qualities are explicit and clearly defined to Se). This feedback loop seems to have a lot more 'saturation' to it than the Ni/Se one, albeit missing out on more essential processes governing something. So, an Ne/Si person may think that an Se/Ni person is making a snap judgment, missing angles; while the Se/Ni person will see such notions as superfluous. Diametrical means to the same ends, in a way; generally incomparable and definitely incommensurable.

[Sirena]

I don't think that example can necessarily be chalked up to a simple Fe/Fi split. Fe isn't intrinsically about ostensible emotional displays, nor is Fi intrinsically about inner motivations; such simplifications only lead to misinterpretations. Each of these functions can evaluate the aforementioned things in different ways (with their respective Ti and Te complimentary functions). As per jessica's specific reasoning, I don't know. It's not as if IxTps go around spouting "factually accurate" but rude comments all day; such is the vice of niffweed and his illusion of Fe polr. Nor is it like ExFjs walk on emotional eggshells. The dichotomy is just too simple and context-dependent to tie it to functions.

I agree that there's overlap and none of the functions are that black and white, which is why I use words like "tend to" or "focus", to highlight the pattern that does exist. I realize that there are numerous interconnections
at work. Behavior is complex. But for the sake of discussion, one can draw upon noticed patterns for observation.

Yeah. It seems as though Si/Ne quadras need to set up an external context for properties and traits to be assessed through. So, their dynamic connection will be more explicit and directly tied to their physical surroundings (whereas the Ni context is simply tied to latent processes). From here, Ne seems to abstract and divide qualities of objects as disparate correlates of each other, continually rearranging and angling the seemingly infinite number, always throughout the external Si context (whereas objects' qualities are explicit and clearly defined to Se). This feedback loop seems to have a lot more 'saturation' to it than the Ni/Se one, albeit missing out on more essential processes governing something. So, an Ne/Si person may think that an Se/Ni person is making a snap judgment, missing angles; while the Se/Ni person will see such notions as superfluous. Diametrical means to the same ends, in a way; generally incomparable and definitely incommensurable.

This sounds quite abstract and theoretical, but I think I (at least) vaguely get what you're saying. Thanks for taking the time to share this.

[Steve]

But deltas have this quietly righteous correctness about them, where actions are assessed based off of these internal 'rules', so oh, it's fine to be a complete dick (which is essentially who you are, independent of context) around your family, but present a nice image in public. Fuck that. You are who you are. I hate people who bend.

I feel similarly.

[Park]

But deltas have this quietly righteous correctness about them, where actions are assessed based off of these internal 'rules', so oh, it's fine to be a complete dick (which is essentially who you are, independent of context) around your family, but present a nice image in public. Fuck that. You are who you are. I hate people who bend.

I feel similarly.

And that's how you two feel about Deltas? Well screw you both, you're wrong. I don't bend. Only my dick does.

[strrrng]

This sounds quite abstract and theoretical, but I think I (at least) vaguely get what you're saying. Thanks for taking the time to share this.

Yeah, I guess it was kind of theoretical. I'll try to think of examples, but I can't really give any first-hand accounts of the Si/Ne experience of said thing, and I already briefly described my Se/Ni perspective.

[Sirena]

Yeah, I guess it was kind of theoretical. I'll try to think of examples, but I can't really give any first-hand accounts of the Si/Ne experience of said thing, and I already briefly described my Se/Ni perspective.

K, thanks! I could probably provide first-hand accounts of the Si/Ne one if you try to explain it in a more real-life context.

[Satan]

That is easy, I generally don't speak to anyone who doesn't speak to me first.

My interactions are most often driven by who deems me to be "attractive" enough to want to get to know, rather than the other way around.

Additionally, I have a hard time remembering what people look like, so in the instance that someone initiates contact with me for whatever reason, should I choose to meet them again it has little to do with physical attractiveness (very often I sit at the meeting place very nervously, hoping that they will approach me first because I don't think I can recognize them in a crowd).

I have my own preferences (for example, I find "taller" people more attractive which I guess is easy when I'm short), but everyone who doesn't speak to me generally gets treated equally. My general view of someone's "attractiveness" is also very influenced by my view of their character (for example, I almost always find "helpful" people attractive, and people I deem to be of "poor character" are universally repulsive).

*steals salawa's words*

[implied]

I have my own preferences (for example, I find "taller" people more attractive which I guess is easy when I'm short), but everyone who doesn't speak to me generally gets treated equally. My general view of someone's "attractiveness" is also very influenced by my view of their character (for example, I almost always find "helpful" people attractive, and people I deem to be of "poor character" are universally repulsive).

bingo. i feel basically the same way quite often. i'm convinced i could find the elephant man sexy if he were seriously kind and intriguing. not like i can say it happens that way every time, but yeah. my view of how physically attractive someone is is rather dependent on how i view their personality/character/kindness level/whatever.

[Satan]

bingo. i feel basically the same way quite often. i'm convinced i could find the elephant man sexy if he were seriously kind and intriguing. not like i can say it happens that way every time, but yeah. my view of how physically attractive someone is is rather dependent on how i view their personality/character/kindness level/whatever.

what if they just pretend to behave themselves

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[implied]

what if they just pretend to behave themselves

it usually comes out fairly soon. how long can you really pretend?

[Satan]

Thank-you! You really don't remember what people look like? Do you remember what places and things look like?

i think salawa bumps into things when she has a phone conversation.

[jessica129]

You really don't remember what people look like? Do you remember what places and things look like?

I have this same problem. I'm not sure if it's a slow decline into alzheimers but I have very, very hard time remembering people's features. Even some of my own family members. I guess I don't typically notice their faces when I'm speaking with them...I just sort of look around them or through them or think about something else when pretending to be paying attention. It's the same with locations. I couldn't tell you what color my bathroom is.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Steve]

Si/Ne types can get strong immediate impressions, but the nature of them differs from Se/Ni. When I first meet someone I gauge a LOT on their appearance or vibes I get about them and compare/contrast them with other people I've experienced in the past. However it's a very initial rough general impression. I usually get strong impressions on someone's inherent POTENTIAL, and I usually stick around them to see what potential will actually take shape in the evolving external context. I give them a shot, as I see no good reason to write them off immediately unless there's been enough context developed that I see the potential with them as having collapsed.

[Steve]

And that's how you two feel about Deltas? Well screw you both, you're wrong. I don't bend. Only my dick does.

I feel that way about the ones that do it. And I was more agreeing with strrrng's point about just be who you're going to be.

[implied]

That's interesting. I can run through names of people I know (or even forum members who've posted a picture) and in my head pull up snapshots of them. It's kind of weird to think that other people don't do that.

so can i. i'm not claiming i could give you very superior detail, but i think if any of you robbed a bank (hah!) and i had to like, describe what you look like, i could do it pretty well. i can manipulate images in my head really well.

[Satan]

That was interesting Salawa. I generally have a lot of difficulty with directions too. Sometimes I have difficulty with faces but not when the faces are in photographs, or with people I'm comfortable with, which is probably kind of odd. After I've gained a 'connection' to the individual or place I remember every little detail perfectly spot on. I think it's just my overall nervousness and anxiety blocking things out to my perceptions, and things become blurred. This is another reason why I have difficulty learning in large social settings.

oh, you're nervous/anxious.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[UDP]

That is easy, I generally don't speak to anyone who doesn't speak to me first.

My interactions are most often driven by who deems me to be "attractive" enough to want to get to know, rather than the other way around.

I realized that there are people like that in the world. It kind of shocked me to realize it. But there are people who really just don't initiate conversation, almost ever.

[strrrng]

I can scroll through images that I've seen and bring them up again. For instance, I can see Auvi in the most recent pic of him I've seen, or bring up that time he had a shaved head and smile about that. I can see hkkmr as a child standing against a wall, shadow behind him, head slightly down. I can see a picture Minde posted and I think later removed. It's black and white and she's turned about 3/4 of the way towards the camera, her eyebrows look raised - they are high and arched. Or I can see a picture Loki once posted where she's wrapped up in a blanket. Or. . . etc etc etc.

What do you see for me, Diana?

[Satan]

I realized that there are people like that in the world. It kind of shocked me to realize it. But there are people who really just don't initiate conversation, almost ever.

yeah i know people like that.

[MysticSonic]

Perhaps it's exactly that capacity Diana that makes you capable of judging people to some extent based solely off of looks. It would seem like if you have a large compendium of data, your mind would eventually aggregate the data together and notice the underlying trends in various aspects of appearance, which would in turn allow you to speed read people based on how they dress, the way they stand, their mannerism, etc., etc. Others whom don't possess such sophisticated mental snapshots or reels of people and their visual behavior would be unlikely to judge people based on such aspects, and in turn may judge you for judging others on them.

I'm sort of at a mid-point on the whole ability to remember people's faces, mannerisms, and generally remember what things look like. I am rather atrocious at remembering areas and places and their general characteristics, but if you are to name anybody I've met even once and ask me to visualize their face, I can do so with a fair amount of accuracy. I also have a mental album of faces and pictures of people, although it manifests itself in a much less sophisticated manner. My mind visualizes the majority of the aspects of that person's face, but the surrounding area is fuzzy and without a doubt details or missing, or perhaps even substituted by my own mind. This makes me wonder why exactly I remember faces but not other visual stimuli. What makes faces so different that I remember them so easily? Am I more geared towards people in my day to day activities and what they look like and neglect my environment? Probably, yea.

[Satan]

very well organised salawa. now remember me!

[Creepy-Diana]

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[dbmmama]

I also don't like trying to find my way around at night. I don't have good night vision. It feels like my depth perception is off at night, and it's really hard to recognize things. But people and other things stick in my mind easily. I can without effort rewind to even many years ago and see a person again, see where they were standing, etc.

I can scroll through images that I've seen and bring them up again. For instance, I can see Auvi in the most recent pic of him I've seen, or bring up that time he had a shaved head and smile about that. I can see hkkmr as a child standing against a wall, shadow behind him, head slightly down. I can see a picture Minde posted and I think later removed. It's black and white and she's turned about 3/4 of the way towards the camera, her eyebrows look raised - they are high and arched. Or I can see a picture Loki once posted where she's wrapped up in a blanket. Or. . . etc etc etc.

I always assumed that everyone had a similar catalog they could flip through. Likewise, if you remember that statue thread where we were saying things about the person based on the statues - making character judgments, expressing whether or not they were someone we'd like and so on. That's the same kind of thing that I do in real life upon meeting new people I don't know.

same, same, same for me. my depth perception is also off. i see lines, shades, color, tints, etc. that's why ive been excellent at drawing realism. its not about being a good artist to me. im not as creative as id like to be that way. its more about being able to see. to see the physical representation of reality as the shape, line, color, etc. of what it is. to be the kind of creative i like, i have to turn that seeing off and go "into" myself. otherwise, i find my own realism boring. it's kinda like drawing something i see is never as good as the real thing anyway.

[dbmmama]

Perhaps it's exactly that capacity Diana that makes you capable of judging people to some extent based solely off of looks. It would seem like if you have a large compendium of data, your mind would eventually aggregate the data together and notice the underlying trends in various aspects of appearance, which would in turn allow you to speed read people based on how they dress, the way they stand, their mannerism, etc., etc. Others whom don't possess such sophisticated mental snapshots or reels of people and their visual behavior would be unlikely to judge people based on such aspects, and in turn may judge you for judging others on them.

wow, that really hits home. my sis has never understood how or why i do that too. she has a mental catalog based on other criteria that groups people more.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[dbmmama]

Yes. If I want to try to deviate from reality in a drawing I make it a cartoon. I'm impressed when people can use their imaginations to make something that looks real, but isn't. They're actually creating. I feel like when I draw, I'm just copying reality.

yes. sunsets are beautiful. the colors, here in phx. i know i better just appreciate it's beauty right then because trying to replicate that would ruin it, for me.

[discojoe]

Yes. If I want to try to deviate from reality in a drawing I make it a cartoon. I'm impressed when people can use their imaginations to make something that looks real, but isn't. They're actually creating. I feel like when I draw, I'm just copying reality.

How is what they're doing more "creating" than what you're doing? Both of you are taking mental images and expressing them via art.

[Creepy-Diana]

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