Originally Posted by Kim
i laughed at least.
i laughed at least.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
that's just awful udp. you should be ashamed.
asd
That's correct, a joke.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
And your friends were very jealous. Even if your they say they weren't, they were very envious of the fact that, heh, that I approached you, and I was very taken by you.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I dunno. I usually don't notice people unless I'm specifically people-watching or else somebody comes up to me - I'm non-initiating in social contexts, and frankly I don't burden myself with having opinions of strangers. The whole "first impressions" thing doesn't really happen in most circumstances for me; I just don't come to conclusions about people until I've known 'em for a while. And it's occurred to me that my hesitation has to do with how bad I suck at evaluating people.
It just sounds weird that at the beginning of your post you say SLIs make snap judgements and then at the end you say we're open to positive qualities we may not have foreseen.
I know when I'm out with my drinkin' buddies, our primary mode is people-watching, and we all call out semi-rude comments - but they're throwaways, just for the sake of shootin' the shit with friends. Like a really skinny girl will walk by, and one of us will say "Sandwich!" as in "That girl really needs to eat a sandwich." But we're not JUDGING her, we're just having fun at a stranger's expense and the stranger doesn't even know it. Once she's out of sight, we're not likely to even think about her any longer.
As I've mentioned before, my brother, who is a lynchpin of the group, tops 400 pounds. But he'll even make jokes about how fat he is, and when a woman walks into the bar wearing something that is not shape-appropriate, none of us will curb our tongues around the table. But again, we would never say anything in her earshot, because the point is not to feel better than her, or to make her feel bad - it's just idle entertainment.
Can anyone give more information about Fi HA?
SLI
Lol @ all you single people.
I agree with this. If an ISTp says these things, it's simply as a joke and not meant to be taken seriously. If they do genuinely believe these things then it's unlikely that they are ISTp (ime)
Re Fi HA, what is it you're looking to know, could you narrow down a little?
lol @ all you financially dependent children who get into relationships to avoid responsibility for your own lives
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I pay more attention to a person's facial expression than to the build of their body. I won't go near a person with a sour face unless I'm in the mood for an argument. I'll talk to any female, unless they're obviously already in clusters. In that case, I'd feel useless and unwanted. I grew up with three brothers and no sisters, so boys are easier to talk to. But I'm uncomfortable starting a conversation with a boy I barely know. I'm also more likely to visit with someone who's dressed modestly; nothing showing unnecessarily for girls, and belts & sleeves for boys.
As far as being single goes, if they're not an option (aka: Christian), I won't be interrested. Same with guys who throw their weight around or who I obviously don't click with. As for appearance, a guy can't be too tall or too short. Perfect size: a couple inches taller than me and a chest with a circumference somewhere between me grabbing my wrist and me grabbing my elbow. I don't like blond hair either; brown or black is best. Your skin should never be darker than your hair. I like eyebrows and square shoulders.
Last edited by DirectorAbbie; 12-10-2008 at 01:56 PM.
@ Jessica: I'm having a hard time understanding your reasoning here. How is ridiculing someone behind their backs as opposed to their faces not hypocritical? How is your being nice to them in person not fake? Obviously your perception of them continues to be that they're disgusting, etc. etc. I'm not sure how you're rationalizing this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
I don't want to go into this topic in too much detail since this thread is already pretty long and has pretty much covered all bases. My question is...what gives anyone the right to judge someone else? Why not just worry about yourself since I'm pretty sure we all have things we should be working on. No one is perfect. If you don't want to date someone you consider unattractive, fine. Hopefully someone will appreciate them for other reasons. I just think people should remember that we each have our demons to fight. Some are more visible than others and usually the less apparent ones are far more dangerous and difficult to change.
I also don't feel right about the generalizations that have been expressed in this thread. Things are far more complex than they appear on the surface and oversimplifying and judging someone's motives without being aware of the full story seems pretty shallow.
Hey gilly, I think i'm going to take your advice and become LSI.
On an internet forum, people often feel they can be honest. I think it's a shame that they get bashed for it - character assassination-style - when they do so.
So you've never, ever judged someone? Interesting. Everyone makes snap judgements at one point in their lives and if you say you don't, you're lying.
There's something here called etiquette...I don't walk up to an obese person and say 'hey fattie, I don't like you because you're fat. You suck. Please die". You want me to do that just so I'm "being honest"? Uh, okay. You judge people, I judge people, everyone judges. Some are vocal, some aren't. Why do you care anyway? I have to say, some of the IEE's here are really incredibly pissing me off with this holier than thou attitude.
The problem with fat women is that mold grows in their piss flaps.
Interesting. You ask a question here, then tell the person they are lying if they don't give the answer you expect.
It's because you don't value Fi.There's something here called etiquette...I don't walk up to an obese person and say 'hey fattie, I don't like you because you're fat. You suck. Please die". You want me to do that just so I'm "being honest"? Uh, okay. You judge people, I judge people, everyone judges. Some are vocal, some aren't. Why do you care anyway? I have to say, some of the IEE's here are really incredibly pissing me off with this holier than thou attitude.
It's more important for you to appear to be a nice person, to conform to certain pleasant societal behaviours. If an Fe PoLR hated something as much as you, they would say it. Because the Fe PoLR is more concerned with the motives underneath, the principles, the morals the reasons, rather than behaving in what's regarded a societally pleasant way. Basically Fi looks underneath for the reasons more, where as Fe will judge more so on the actual behaviours evidenced.
You're not a Delta Jessica. Beta fits you much better, either ESTp or ISTj.
I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
.
I didn't say I've never done it, but at least I don't justify my actions and rationalize them to make myself feel that they're ok. I make mistakes just like everyone else, but the difference is that when it happens I am disappointed in myself and try to remind myself of that next time, whereas you seem to be saying that because "everyone does it" it makes it okay. And anyway, this is my opinion and the least you can do is respect it. I don't see why it has to piss you off just because you disagree. But of course, that's your prerogative.
Plus, my questions to you were aimed at understanding your definition of being nice as a reflection of your external actions rather than how you actually feel. I never suggested that you come up to someone and call them a fat-ass. My point is that there seems to be a disconnect between your reasoning for not being blunt to someone in person and thinking it's acceptable to do so just because they're not present. The way I look at it, if it's not appropriate to say to them, it's probably even less appropriate to say behind their backs.
So even though I don't agree with how you feel about this topic in general, that's your problem, not mine and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But nevermind, you actually answered my question.
As much as you apparently like to argue with people, my point stands for Delta Fe PoLR's (and I would say often the case for Gamma Fe PoLR's also.)
However, I will give you very recent example (although this one is quite tame) an ESFp tourist guide was exhausted from working all day but was being asked more questions but was too polite to refuse. The ISTp told the other people to shut up and leave the ESFp alone. Now the ISTp was quite rude, but the ESFp appreciated what the ISTp did because the ESFp knew that the ISTp was defending and protecting because was tired. Hence motivation over external behaviour.
Edit: It's unlikely I will elborate further here.
Nevermind
See, the problem with this, is you ARE judging her. Just because there is no malicious intent, does not mean you are not making a judgment. And the fact that you rationalize it through some bullshit pretense of "throwaways" or "shootin' the shit" only conveys your hypocrisy. I respect you for saying it so that the stranger doesn't hear it, but what if they do? What if the girl is anorexic and gets her feelings hurt? What are you gonna say? That you were just "shootin' the shit"? That won't fucking matter, because what you say is what you say, regardless of some subjectively-created intent.
I think it's generally positive for people to be able to humor themselves like your brother does, and it's nice when a group can poke fun at each other without getting their feelings hurt. I just don't like the half-ass picking on strangers thing. If I mock a stranger, I mean what I say, and don't care if they hear it or not. But I would never passive-aggressively hide behind a group and rationalize my innocuous criticisms of passer-by's; that just seems petty to me.As I've mentioned before, my brother, who is a lynchpin of the group, tops 400 pounds. But he'll even make jokes about how fat he is, and when a woman walks into the bar wearing something that is not shape-appropriate, none of us will curb our tongues around the table. But again, we would never say anything in her earshot, because the point is not to feel better than her, or to make her feel bad - it's just idle entertainment.
And yeah, this is a fucking beta/delta clash, because you people love to sit in your little groups complacently and quietly snicker about outsiders. At least us betas are direct about what we think.
Which is why last year at a ski resort, when this group of douche bag teenage guys decided to make slights when I or any of my family would walk by, or when they walked by our table (some stupid compensatory pissing on the bush crap), I was pretty aggravated. They were clearly doing this under the same pretense as you, and didn't have any real intent behind it, other than self-contained fun, but to me, that shit isn't self-contained if it is affecting other people (especially if you're mocking someone's family). So, I stuck their fat-ass leader in his double-chin bearing face and told them to keep their mouths shut (this was after about 5 of their joke sessions).
What's the point? That just because you think a joke is exclusive, doesn't mean it is. Heh, if you aggravate someone else, you deserve to get your ass beat, whether you "meant it" or not. People seriously need to learn to stay in their fucking place.
4w3-5w6-8w7
No probs.. Just a quick question to ask yourself, would you prefer a partner who judged you on your motivations for slipping up in an Fe way, or someone who is more inclined simply to judge you on your superficial actions. Of course there is crossovers. You don't have to answer (feel free to pm me if you like) but think about it..there is a reason why ENFp's are your duals ..and ESFj's are supervisors.
I think it's a misunderstanding to say that Fe PoLR makes you say what you think rather than be concerned with social consequences. Not caring about your impact on others simply makes you an asshole, not Fe PoLR. Fe PoLR is about having poor judgement on how your actions will impact others.
If I can give an example, my ESTj father often steamrolls over people to try and do what he thinks is the best and most efficient thing. Sometimes in doing this, he steps on other people's toes, but he isn't disregarding their feelings. Instead, he doesn't really understand how he's hurting or offending someone by his actions.
My INTp mother is simply uncomfortable with social situations because she doesn't feel confident in how she should be acting. Additionally, if people joke around with her or tease her she gets upset easily because she has difficulty drawing the line between friendly jesting and being offensive. Never the less, she doesn't simply spout off the mouth and say whatever she wants because she doesn't care about what is appropriate behaviour.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
+100
4w3-5w6-8w7
I don't think that was his point. I think he meant that because SLI's are not strong in either Fi or Fe, they have difficulty with both. Yet, they value Fi over Fe, which means that Fe-related slip ups won't bother them as much because they don't consider that as important. I don't think he was trying to justify being a jackass. Just that he appreciates people that can look past the external stuff and focus on motivation. Remember that duals still help each other with their PoLR's, but they do so from an HA POV (imo). So, if an SLI did or said something that I thought would have an impact on a person's feelings, for instance, I would try to help them understand how this would affect the person (Fi). So in other words, I would approach it from an Fi POV since that's what we both value.
Yes, and if an Fe PoLR was judged on how their actions impacted others, rather that motivation behind behaviour or actions by their dual then he or she would have some difficulty being themselves. These are subtle/important differences between what is valued and is not.
.
Exactly. Interestingly an ENFp knew what I meant and the Fi PoLR in this instance, seemed not to.
This is generally quite a good example of Fi going into Se. (and how it is the sort of Fi an ISTp tends not to value-being that ISFj's are their beneficiaries)
OK..done with the thread for defo now..have other things to do at mo
Ok, but my point here is that your comment on Fe PoLR with regards to Jessica's behaviour doesn't seem very relevant. I don't really care what type she is, but your argument didn't make sense unless you were arguing that she can't be SLI because she cares about appropriate conduct. Jessica has clearly stated that she has an issue with obesity, and because she doesn't go up to obese people and tell them that she thinks their conduct and treatment of themselves is disgusting and wrong that makes her more Fe than Fi? I just don't see where your argument is here.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
First of all, there's a big difference between the sort of behaviour iannau is describing, and the sort that involves deliberately making slights in order to hurt people. So it's ridiculous to present them as comparable.
You can make statements about people without necessarily being judgmental. You can have a personal abhorrence for onions, and be able to describe exactly what it is about them that you hate, without actually harboring any ill-will towards them or having any desire to rubbish them publicly. You're essentially saying that people should either be willing to publicly go on an onion-bashing crusade or they should simply eradicate their dislike of onions. Did it occur to you that the person may only be talking about the relationship between the onions and themselves - no one else? It's not about the onions - it's about the person's personal reaction to them ... which they understand and appreciate is going to be different than everyone else's reaction to them. So it's ludicrous to suggest going public with something that is essentially personal, and equally stupid to just get rid of a preference/bias that is most likely innate.
I can't see the problem with expressing your own personal tastes in public where you believe they're not going to offend and shutting your mouth where they will. What's the difference between that and just shutting your mouth entirely? Are you being more "honest" by never airing your opinions as opposed to only airing them when they're not going to hurt people?
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
There is no difference. Those guys didn't intend for us to hear it; I just happened to notice it, and thought that it was annoying.
What I'm saying is, if you're going to verbally express an opinion, just do it. You don't have to make sure others don't hear it, or hide behind a group of friends, or whatever. Just say it and mean it. And if you don't mean it, there is really no point in saying it; a waste of air. Like, I can understand wanting to express an observation and not hurt peoples' feelings, but I don't know; I feel like you should be accepting of the fact that it could come across to them a certain way. Obviously a discussion with friends where criticisms are of a more intellectual nature is different than "shootin the shit" on peoples' appearances, etc.You can make statements about people without necessarily being judgmental. You can have a personal abhorrence for onions, and be able to describe exactly what it is about them that you hate, without actually harboring any ill-will towards them or having any desire to rubbish them publicly.
They don't have to eradicate the dislike; they should just express sentiments directly, instead of hiding behind pretenses. What's the problem with demarcating your position and space? If you're not willing to implement or back up your opinions, don't bother voicing them—regardless of context.You're essentially saying that people should either be willing to publicly go on an onion-bashing crusade or they should simply eradicate their dislike of onions.
And? You can still be direct.Did it occur to you that the person may only be talking about the relationship between the onions and themselves - no one else?
That is irrelevant. We're talking about expressing opinions with a group in different ways, not how someone feels about something. And I never said people weren't entitled to personal beliefs. bleh.It's not about the onions - it's about the person's personal reaction to them ... which they understand and appreciate is going to be different than everyone else's reaction to them. So it's ludicrous to suggest going public with something that is essentially personal, and equally stupid to just get rid of a preference/bias that is most likely innate.
It's one thing to keep your opinion that the philadelphia eagles are a bunch of pussies to yourself when in a philly bar. It's another to say something behind someone's back to get some entertainment out of it.I can't see the problem with expressing your own personal tastes in public where you believe they're not going to offend and shutting your mouth where they will.
You're honest when you say what you mean, without bullshit pretenses, and regardless of who hears it. Airing them when they won't be heard or have some negative effect on someone is bullshit to me. If I want to voice an opinion, I just will. I don't need a context or rationalization; it is what it is. And if I don't intend on it being heard, or on defending it directly, I won't voice it.What's the difference between that and just shutting your mouth entirely? Are you being more "honest" by never airing your opinions as opposed to only airing them when they're not going to hurt people?
It's somewhat related to the static positional nature of Se within the Ti network. I really gravitate towards the sentiment of people having explicit places within an explicitly defined hierarchy, so that may explain my reaction. I don't really conceive of implicit relations between things which are dependent on the individual (Fi) or malleable positions and properties of people/objects (Ne).
4w3-5w6-8w7
+1
That's ridiculous. Who made that rule? Talk about boresville and a supreme lack of spontaneity. We have to go around like we're all being examined by each other - pulling forth carefully-considered justifications for everything we say? Whatever happened to simply expressing personal preference as evidence of being a human being - someone who differs from everybody else? Making light of something - while knowing perfectly well it's a serious issue to other people - simply because you personally find something humourous about it in the moment? How is that "hiding behind pretenses"? It's just expressing honest, personal reactions in a place where no one is going to be hurt by them. I, for one, have no interest in "demarcating my position and space" (makes me think of a dog marking its territory lol, but w/e). Because my position could change ... and because I'm never going to reach a point of complete objectivity. So I feel foolish being overly vocal and dogmatic on issues of which I don't possess all the facts. But just shutting up entirely about things I haven't analysed in detail is unhealthy and stupid. Maybe it works for you, with your penchant for internal anguish. :-pIt's not irrelevant. I wasn't meaning "personal" as in we all have our unique perspectives blah blah ... I'm talking about an opinion that someone feels is only related to their relationship with the object. For instance you'd feel rather foolish taking to the streets shouting "I love coffee! I love coffee! Hear me!" Yeah - so what. How does that affect me? On the other hand, there's going around expressing a dogmatic belief that everyone who doesn't love coffee is stupid. So I may think a person rude, but not feel compelled to let the world know, because it's simply about my reaction to the person. So I'd feel uncomfortable if I was forced to make a judgment on that person and label them "rude". Not because I'm not willing to stand by my opinions, but because it is just my opinion. I would feel like I'm not necessarily representing reality. Do you know what I mean?That is irrelevant. We're talking about expressing opinions with a group in different ways, not how someone feels about something. And I never said people weren't entitled to personal beliefs. bleh.Yeah well, exactly. It's about your personal reaction to a person's behaviour - not whether or not it's wrong.You're honest when you say what you mean, without bullshit pretenses, and regardless of who hears it. Airing them when they won't be heard or have some negative effect on someone is bullshit to me. If I want to voice an opinion, I just will. I don't need a context or rationalization; it is what it is. And if I don't intend on it being heard, or on defending it directly, I won't voice it.
It's somewhat related to the static positional nature of Se within the Ti network. I really gravitate towards the sentiment of people having explicit places within an explicitly defined hierarchy, so that may explain my reaction. I don't really conceive of implicit relations between things which are dependent on the individual (Fi) or malleable positions and properties of people/objects (Ne).
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
No, actually, I'm NOT judging her, because what I'm doing is drawing from my memories of previous nights at the bar and using something that's already been established in the context of my group's dynamic. I don't give a shit about some random stranger being stick-thin, but I know someone at the table is gonna make the joke, and occasionally I'm the one who gets around to saying it first.
The "sandwich" comment is particularly relevant because even if somehow by accident the person heard the comment, she's not likely to connect it to herself. We're at a bar, looking all around us, with everyone else's conversation and cigarette smoke clouding us. We could even have been talking about ordering ourselves some food!
Actually, now that I think about it, there has been a time when one of the group's comments was overheard - it was about the bouyancy of her chest and the inadequacy of the top she'd chosen to support it. We explained that we're drunk bastards, and the girl ended up laughing with us about it. She went back to her table and was even caught making eyes at one of the group throughout the night. He was too embarrassed to go over and talk to her, and THAT made HIM the target of our good-natured ridicule for WEEKS!
So that brings up another point: the people we give the most shit to are each other. Even I have to sit there and take it, not least because I've slept with three of the guys in the group. Hell, they even tease my brother and I with incest jokes. Nothing (well, very little) is off the table.
LOL at you thinking we rationalize it in-group. And besides my LSE boyfriend and I, I kinda doubt any of the others are Deltas. As I said before, it's not even criticisms, more like observations. Criticism implies something you expect improvement upon. I just don't bother to care that much about strangers. You're taking this as us trying to feel "better than" these people, which I explained is not our dynamic.I think it's generally positive for people to be able to humor themselves like your brother does, and it's nice when a group can poke fun at each other without getting their feelings hurt. I just don't like the half-ass picking on strangers thing. If I mock a stranger, I mean what I say, and don't care if they hear it or not. But I would never passive-aggressively hide behind a group and rationalize my innocuous criticisms of passer-by's; that just seems petty to me.
And yeah, this is a fucking beta/delta clash, because you people love to sit in your little groups complacently and quietly snicker about outsiders. At least us betas are direct about what we think.
Your assumption that they were clearly doing this under the same pretenses is just that, an assumption. I'm sorry those guys were douchebags, and I probably would have felt prickly if I were in the same situation as you. But I don't see my friends and I creating that situation, so take your stung pride elsewhere (cue strrrng going "LOL I was only making argument for argument's sake").Which is why last year at a ski resort, when this group of douche bag teenage guys decided to make slights when I or any of my family would walk by, or when they walked by our table (some stupid compensatory pissing on the bush crap), I was pretty aggravated. They were clearly doing this under the same pretense as you, and didn't have any real intent behind it, other than self-contained fun, but to me, that shit isn't self-contained if it is affecting other people (especially if you're mocking someone's family). So, I stuck their fat-ass leader in his double-chin bearing face and told them to keep their mouths shut (this was after about 5 of their joke sessions).
What's the point? That just because you think a joke is exclusive, doesn't mean it is. Heh, if you aggravate someone else, you deserve to get your ass beat, whether you "meant it" or not. People seriously need to learn to stay in their fucking place.
SLI
Hell no, wtf? I don't care about other peoples' opinions of my opinions or whatever; I was saying that you should be direct about what you mean and how you say it. And that if someone is affected by it, they are entitled to respond accordingly, regardless of your intent behind the expression.
I'm not against this. It's about the manner in which you do it.Whatever happened to simply expressing personal preference as evidence of being a human being - someone who differs from everybody else?
There is a shit load of context behind this, so I don't know where to begin evaluating it. It's not as if I won't mock fat/ugly/whatever people from time to time; see above points.Making light of something - while knowing perfectly well it's a serious issue to other people - simply because you personally find something humourous about it in the moment? How is that "hiding behind pretenses"?
Sure, like a forum, whatever.It's just expressing honest, personal reactions in a place where no one is going to be hurt by them.
Nor am I. That doesn't mean I can't outline things right now but keep them open to change in the future.I, for one, have no interest in "demarcating my position and space" (makes me think of a dog marking its territory lol, but w/e). Because my position could change ... and because I'm never going to reach a point of complete objectivity.
So do I.So I feel foolish being overly vocal and dogmatic on issues of which I don't possess all the facts.
This is more in the intellectual realm.But just shutting up entirely about things I haven't analysed in detail is unhealthy and stupid.
lol. If I want to express something, I do it.Maybe it works for you, with your penchant for internal anguish. :-p
There is that aspect, and there is also the effect that expressing such an opinion has on the object.It's not irrelevant. I wasn't meaning "personal" as in we all have our unique perspectives blah blah ... I'm talking about an opinion that someone feels is only related to their relationship with the object.
I would? What is that supposed to prove? It is in a different context than the original example anyway. And I agree about the last part, as doing so doesn't foster anything positive in the short or long run.For instance you'd feel rather foolish taking to the streets shouting "I love coffee! I love coffee! Hear me!" Yeah - so what. How does that affect me? On the other hand, there's going around expressing a dogmatic belief that everyone who doesn't love coffee is stupid.
Right. I wouldn't necessarily feel compelled to tell people either...So I may think a person rude, but not feel compelled to let the world know, because it's simply about my reaction to the person.
Yes, I do. And I'm not proposing that people constantly be forced to express every sentiment or whatever. Something about the originally mentioned situation just bothered me.So I'd feel uncomfortable if I was forced to make a judgment on that person and label them "rude". Not because I'm not willing to stand by my opinions, but because it is just my opinion. I would feel like I'm not necessarily representing reality. Do you know what I mean?
Yup.Yeah well, exactly. It's about your personal reaction to a person's behaviour - not whether or not it's wrong.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Fair enough. I just meant that by expressing the opinion, some form of a judgment was made—not necessarily some moral proclamation. And as for the whole "established dynamic" thing, whatever. I could think of inter-relating dynamics and contexts with my group blah blah...it is what it is.
Yeah, that's true. It was more about the internal motivations to me, but whatever.The "sandwich" comment is particularly relevant because even if somehow by accident the person heard the comment, she's not likely to connect it to herself. We're at a bar, looking all around us, with everyone else's conversation and cigarette smoke clouding us. We could even have been talking about ordering ourselves some food!
Actually, now that I think about it, there has been a time when one of the group's comments was overheard - it was about the bouyancy of her chest and the inadequacy of the top she'd chosen to support it. We explained that we're drunk bastards, and the girl ended up laughing with us about it. She went back to her table and was even caught making eyes at one of the group throughout the night. He was too embarrassed to go over and talk to her, and THAT made HIM the target of our good-natured ridicule for WEEKS!
Ok, then that's fine. The fact that you dish it out to each other is what I appreciate.So that brings up another point: the people we give the most shit to are each other. Even I have to sit there and take it, not least because I've slept with three of the guys in the group. Hell, they even tease my brother and I with incest jokes. Nothing (well, very little) is off the table.
I don't care too much about strangers either, and I wasn't using the word criticism that literally. I suppose I misinterpreted your Fi understanding for some sort of Ti hierarchy.LOL at you thinking we rationalize it in-group. And besides my LSE boyfriend and I, I kinda doubt any of the others are Deltas. As I said before, it's not even criticisms, more like observations. Criticism implies something you expect improvement upon. I just don't bother to care that much about strangers. You're taking this as us trying to feel "better than" these people, which I explained is not our dynamic.
lol, I wasn't making an argument for argument's sake. I just read a post and haphazardly responded based off of an immediate reaction. And yeah, I don't think your friends' situation is necessarily as extreme as my example, but my initial focus, I believe, was on the peoples' motivations in that type of setting.Your assumption that they were clearly doing this under the same pretenses is just that, an assumption. I'm sorry those guys were douchebags, and I probably would have felt prickly if I were in the same situation as you. But I don't see my friends and I creating that situation, so take your stung pride elsewhere (cue strrrng going "LOL I was only making argument for argument's sake").
4w3-5w6-8w7
Maybe it works, but when it leads you to think that being obese "says something about their character", this is what is wrong. It's called a prejudice. Which is not a "bad thing" per se, but it may lead to wrong conclusions.
No. This has been proven wrong multiple times on this thread. Repeating it won't make it any more true.This is easy to do, and everyone does it whether or not you realize that you are.
[btw, I don't think this has a lot to do with functions]
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Cool. I think it's interesting that you often seem to start to fly off the handle around the forum, but if people actually stick to the topic and address things directly, you often clarify your position and end up expressing a broad tolerance for other people's ways of handling & looking at things. It's taken me a while to get used to, and I think I still am. FWIW, I bet we'd get along IRL!
SLI
It's rather sad that the threads such as this one are always the most popular on the forum.
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