ISTp-ENFp conversation last night

[meatburger]

I drove my ISTp friend to a team dinner. He just got back from a trip around Europe (lucky bastard) and was good catching up with him. At about 11:30pm he asked if i wanted to have a beer and we ended up talking till about 4:30am haha.

One thing we talked about was Religeon. His family is very religous and he feels very split because he doesn't believe in god but has also seen how happy it has made his family. He talked about how he is interested in how christianity has shaped history such as wars and the institution of marriage, but also how it has shaped good things such as our ethics and values etc.

We also talked about conspiracy theories. He believes 911 was orchestrated. I disagreed so we talked about that in depth. I suggested that while individual points may be in question such as building 7 falling down or whatever, i said that on the whole i didn't think the whole conspiracy worked . Also we talked about how information can be manipulated and how these conspiracy websites are typically linked to other conspiracies which are unlikely. Another ISTp friend i have also believes in the 9/11 deal.

We talked about the environment and global warming, and he believes that it is not really caused by humans. I said i think that the general scientific concensus these days is that it is definately caused by humans. I said that even though i am talking about saving the environment though, i dont do anything about it. Therin lies the problem, even i am too much of a consumer / asshole to change and i would like to think im probablly more caring than many lol. I said that one day in 60 years our grandkids will ask what a cheetah is and we will say they are something that used to exist once. We talked about environmental hegemony (keeping a combination of power / consent) over people to influence change etc.

We talked about peak oil and how reading all those websites scares the urine out of me. Again though its very hard to see the whole truth of the situation (if opec are doctoring their reports etc). Its also possible that new sciences will get hard to reach oil or oil shale will be viable etc etc.

Then his crazy room mate came out and was talking about how "The mark of the beast" suggests that at the end of the world everyone will be marked / identified or something like that. He said that microchips are likely to be implanted in our hands etc to use as tracking / identification / using money. I agree this is possibly the way the world / technology is going. He suggested that when this type of control eventually occurs the christians will have to resist or they may burn in hell (resist the mark of satans control). Interesting theory.

Anyway this is probablly boring as hell to anyone reading this. I feel like ass because he smokes and i smoked quite a few cigarettes and my head hurts now because i dont smoke

The most amazing thing that i noticed though is that while talking about our conflicting viewpoints we didn't argue even once. It was simply a civil exchange of information and there just didn't seem to be any angst there. I think that is a strong indicator of duality, that kind of acceptance.

[Minde]

I found it interesting. I have found that with people who more deeply understand and accept and trust each other, they can disagree or have different opinions without it involving anger or leading to division.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading that.

[munenori2]

The most amazing thing that i noticed though is that while talking about our conflicting viewpoints we didn't argue even once. It was simply a civil exchange of information and there just didn't seem to be any angst there.

The content of your convo and this last bit remind me a whole hell of a lot of how my ISTp former roomie and I used to discuss things when it was just the two of us living together. I miss those talks.

[Elro]

I said that one day in 60 years our grandkids will ask what a cheetah is and we will say they are something that used to exist once.

You could point to one of these, too:

Doubt that will be going anywhere anytime soon.

[meatburger]

You could point to one of these, too:

Doubt that will be going anywhere anytime soon.

god i hope not man. If cheetos go extinct its game over

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I like it when you can discuss things with friends. It can be intellectually stimulating. Different viewpoints are fun, when handled maturely and talked through. I think this is useful for ENFp's also because it helps their weak T with concise information from someone strong in Te. And vica versa for the Strong Te person to exercise their Te and also hear some new possibilities from an Ne perspective.

Even if not Delta it's still a good way to learn (when done maturely)

[Slacker]

Ha. My husband believes the 9/11 conspiracy theories too. Dunno if it's type related or just a coincidence. It might be at least partially type related because he doesn't believe it for reasons like he sees no reason why one of the buildings that wasn't hit by a plane collapsed, and there's something about a passport being found on the site that supposedly belonged to a terrorist but survived the plane crash. I don't know.

[UDP]

Ha. My husband believes the 9/11 conspiracy theories too. Dunno if it's type related or just a coincidence. It might be at least partially type related because he doesn't believe it for reasons like he sees no reason why one of the buildings that wasn't hit by a plane collapsed, and there's something about a passport being found on the site that supposedly belonged to a terrorist but survived the plane crash. I don't know.

When two buildings fall in exactly the same way at free fall speeds, it's just very suspicious. They didn't topple over, they fell straight down. It looks exactly like a controlled demolition.

There are lots of other things that are suspicious about it (building 7, disappearance of the plane wreckage, pilots of low skill, etc). I suspect that the whole story is not yet revealed. If you compare events like this to other things the government has done and other white papers (the 9/11 report) the government has produced, there plenty of reason to believe that things are being withheld.

Anyone who looks at how the government deals with information in a serious way can easily be suspicious. The deal is, of course, whether information is being withheld or altered for "good purposes" - and that's just a matter of guessing or faith. Sometimes the government will just do what it thinks is best, and sometimes it has to. And, sometimes - like if your (school) government is dealing with budget cuts, you can't really go around saying to faculty 'hey your job might be cut', otherwise it would create panic and make people unreasonable (you can say more appealing things like "the student/faculty ratio would deteriorate if these budget cuts passed); that example is relative to the US government (all govs) as well. It's just how things work. You can say that information is vital to the security and prestige of the school - and it may be. It is always a hard line between information revealed, information withheld, and the proper amount of both - where should that line be set? Where can it be set - where is the right balance between information revealed and not jeopardizing things?

That being said, I'm not sure of anything. I think there is a highly suspicious aura about it, but I don't know what to say. I don't think it is "unpatriotic" to question things, which is what some people say (it actually may be very patriotic, considering that the US values freedom, and so on). But I'm not ready to say that it was some ploy by GWB.

When more things are revealed to the public (or my knowledge) I'll know more about what to say. So all I can right now is that it is surely suspicious.

[mikemex]

I think this is useful for ENFp's also because it helps their weak T with concise information from someone strong in Te. And vica versa for the Strong Te person to exercise their Te and also hear some new possibilities from an Ne perspective.

I'm sorry but I notice a slight asymmetry here. Te is a judging function, while Ne is a perception one. According to socionics theory, they do not complement each other.

So you're undervaluing Si and Fi for some reason. Maybe it is because those two functions serve the purpose to unify ideas in a holistic way. Everything is connected, if you think about it. But it is of little practical purpose to have such wide notions. It is more convenient, from a pragmatic point of view, to link things according to more specific rules; and it is exactly what Ne and Te do.

[tiny_dancer]

@ UPD & Elro... The towers were 100+ floors. If you take a chunk out of the lower floors... I don't think 'gradual' failure would even be possible. If just one floor gave way, you'd have the weight of 80 floors (or whatever) coming down immediately... Uhhh.. don't think anything you could build, within reason, could resist that for anything longer than a few seconds.

[Warlord]

We talked about the environment and global warming, and he believes that it is not really caused by humans. I said i think that the general scientific concensus these days is that it is definately caused by humans.

Actually no. Despite what the media tries to feed you. The evidence for the opposite is quite conclusive.

[Ms. Kensington]

i dont smoke

The most amazing thing that i noticed though is that while talking about our conflicting viewpoints we didn't argue even once. It was simply a civil exchange of information and there just didn't seem to be any angst there. I think that is a strong indicator of duality, that kind of acceptance.

you don't smoke si? you should try it it's sublime...

this wasn't boring no not at all.

[meatburger]

you don't smoke si? you should try it it's sublime...

this wasn't boring no not at all.

Haha smoking pure Si sounds amazing. I would smoke you if i could Jane i recon you would cause amazing effects.