You are an idiot, Robot. You don't understand the Enneagram, so get rid of your false opinions about it. There are no ISFp 4s. Delusions, delusion, delusions ...
You are an idiot, Robot. You don't understand the Enneagram, so get rid of your false opinions about it. There are no ISFp 4s. Delusions, delusion, delusions ...
You're the idiot until you can prove with logic that I'm the idiot. Name-calling takes work, Phaedrus.Originally Posted by Phaedrus
You know, my next step is going to be defining what exactly the bare minimum is in clear concise terms.
(And scrounging around in the fridge for some waffles.)
Waffles!
I personally don't think SEIs can be 4s (this is just my feeling - no evidence to back it up whatsoever w00t) ... because I think an SEI's Si makes them too grounded in the here and now, in physical reality to be able to successfully go about recreating themselves identity-wise. I can see recreating their external image, behaviour etc ... but I can't even conceive of how you would go about recreating your identity as an Si-dominant type. An SEI's identity is tied up with how they relate to the world around them in a sensory way .... so in order to recreate their identity, it'd have to be a very conscious act involving deliberately ignoring their physical instincts or something - it would be more like simply acting. Which I've done in the past, but could never sustain as it tires me out exceedingly. The idea of recreating my identity certainly fascinates me, but I could never seriously entertain the idea because ... Idk - I am who I am who I am. I think that's related to my Si base. lol Reliance on my inate instincts. I don't think it's enough to say I strongly identify with the following - "Want/need/seek to discover or make an identity for his or her self" - therefore I must be a 4. I think nearly every person could relate to that to some degree at some point in their life. I mean I "want/need/seek to ...." but I've realised it's impossible for me to do. w00t I may be going out on a limb here, but I think all SEIs would come to that conclusion if they really know themselves - no matter how much they relate to that statement. I think it comes down to whether or not that motivation pretty much sums your motivations up as a person or not - and I think it can be pretty hard to separate your core motivation (if such a thing exists) from your needs/desires that have arisen from experiences in your life. So I don't think it's as easy as "read them all ... and whichever one you relate to most must be you".
You don't need to recreate yourself to be a four. The main drive is to FIND YOUR IDENTITY.
Also you say grounded in the here and now...so freaking what? SEIs are also introverts...they can and do introspect, right?
Identity tied up to the world? What on earth are you talking about? You see a tree out in nature and now it's a part of you?
You said "I think that's related to my Si base"...It might also be related to your enneagram 9ness. The way 9s relate to their identity is the same manner in which you just related to yours.
Sums up your motivations as a person? Well she wants an identity.
And of course that statement isn't enough! I didn't say it was enough! I said it was a requirement! And I'd like to add that the word "make" shouldn't have been taken so seriously...like I said before it's more about discovering who you are.
Calm down.I'm gonna have to withdraw to reevaluate my position :-/ ... because I was thinking that 4 was more about creating different identities. Meh. See you in a few years.
You refuse to learn, therefore you deserve no respect.
Jem makes some good points here.
As Robots ISFp friend doesn't relate to all the mystic mumbo jumbo-as she puts it, she can't be a 4.
No. "Mystic mumbo jumbo" hasn't even been clearly defined. Ugh.
And Jem only makes good points if she's right.
She's could very well be simplifying personality. It doesn't have to be that simple. Do you think an MBTT ENFP 4 could have a simple personality or identity? Being a 4 pulls you inward, being an extrovert pulls you outward. (Let alone an MBTT INTJ 4!) Jem could very well be ignoring the possibility for complexity that you guys aren't aware of.
Heh and my ISFp 4 buddy does talk about constantly being internally conflicted. She says she's pulled in different directions often.
Last edited by Robot; 10-08-2008 at 12:53 PM.
To be honest your making correlations that don't make sense. Re ENFp INTj.
I can't speak for Jem, but what Jem says is consistent withdominant types. Of course people are complex, and enneatype is complex. If your friend really is an ISFp, then she is mistyping herself on enneagram.
If she understood the enneatype correctly, she would see how it all related to her. Of course the mumbo jumbo she mentions hasn't been explained by you (or her) - but it says two things, either she doesn't relate to a large part of enneagram 4, or she doesn't understand it enough yet.
I'm personally not a fan of typing people on enneagram with knowing nothing about them, especially over internet. But what you say about her being pulled in different directions, depending what she means by this, it could well be that of a 9.
Yes they are. Did you read it? I said ENFP and INTJ NOT ENFp and INTj. Myers briggs not socionics. The degree of complexity of ENFP 4s and INTJ 4s is the same or more than the degree of complexity of ISFp 4s.To be honest your making correlations that don't make sense. Re ENFp INTj.
I can't speak for Jem, but what Jem says is consistent with
If she understood the enneatype correctly, she would see how it all related to her. Of course the mumbo jumbo she mentions hasn't been explained by you (or her) - but it says two things, either she doesn't relate to a large part of enneagram 4, or she doesn't understand it enough yet.
I'm personally not a fan of typing people on enneagram with knowing nothing about them, especially over internet. But what you say about her being pulled in different directions, depending what she means by this, it could well be that of a 9.
LOOK AT THE CAPITOLS THIS TIME. ENFP does not equal ENFp.
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