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Thread: Please recommend me esoteric and classical literature

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    He looks like an ISTj friend of mine in this one: (LOL @ the resemblance)

    Last edited by Park; 10-02-2008 at 03:49 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    He looks like an ISTj friend of mine in this one: (LOL @ the resemblance)

    OMG!
    That looks like a 'softer', 'dreamier', less 'aristrocratic' and 'cruel' (so um, an NF version) copy of an LSI I 'know'. *coughs*
    ()
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    this one's even more resembling of my friend (even though it's practically the same one)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    ok...

    IT'S HIM NOW !!!

    LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    AHAHAHA. You're good with photoshop, WP.

    Actually, my LSI actually does have rather foppish sandy hair - well, he's generally a bit foppish. What's wrong is the expression in the eyes. It's still too...soft, too unfocused and 'lost amidst the inner dreamscape'. If you could just change that...
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    What's wrong is the expression in the eyes. It's still too...soft, too unfocused and 'lost amidst the inner dreamscape'. If you could just change that...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    The Island of the Day Before by Umberto Eco. I've not read it, but it's on my bookshelf for a reason, and the name sounds esoteric, and he is one of the world's top three intellectuals besides Noam Chomsky and Richard Dawkins. Another book on my shelf is called A Prayer For Owen Meany by John Irving. It's about some kid who kills another kid with a baseball and thinks he's some kind of instrument. Yeah, this isn't really classical, but read it anyway and tell me what you think.

    I would actually be very surprised and gratefully amused if you read these books and gave me your feedback.

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    Have you ever been to this website? It's not as pared-down a list as you're looking for at the moment, but sometimes it's interesting to surf the randomness of what other people are reading.

    www.goodreads.com
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I have to agree with Gilly. The ability to read and comprehend is divorced, to a large extent, to the emotional and cultural understanding necessary to really get texts. This is not a question of 'brightness' in anyway. A bright kid might read Tolstoy at 10 and understand the *story*, again 14 and understand the *emotional landscape* and only at 17 really understand the philosophical argument being made. A lot of authors embed their meanings in opposition to previous floating modes of thinking, ideas and arguments. No matter how brilliant, you only grasp half of what they are trying to convey by reading the positive statements they are making, without knowledge of the implicit negative statements. You can still discuss the text intelligently, but your understanding is inevitably not as nuanced as it could be. And most children at 10 simply haven't got the broad range of intellectual, cultural, emotional etc exposure necessary.

    BUT I have to disagree with Gilly on Joyce. Reading him isn't so much interesting, as his sense of plot only functions on the very microscopic level and then the very macro level, it's more...rewarding. It's...immersion within a text, an experience of dislocation and ineluctable flow. And then you go back and look at the INSANE schemes he came up with, including various organs, colours etc for each chapter and you laugh. And you say: wow, the modernists were some crazy kids. And then you open Finnegan's Wake and chuckle nervously...
    On an only somewhat related note, there's also the issue of physical maturity.
    I read Judy Blume's Forever when I was 9, which is a teen romance novel. I was old enough to understand that the characters were having sex, but since I had not yet myself felt the stirrings of my own pubescence, I was totally left behind by their subsequent motivations. The characters basically proclaim their undying love for one another and then inevitably drift apart, even sleeping with other people before breaking up. This confused the hell out of me.
    A few years later, I was like "OH!" and I had to go back and read what I already knew was a mediocre story at best, just because I had to put my mind to rest about the characters' actions. Sure enough, the whole thing made sense. Not that I approved of their actions any more than before, but I understood how their bodies' feelings played into their emotional feelings.
    What a difference hormones make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The Island of the Day Before by Umberto Eco. I've not read it, but it's on my bookshelf for a reason, and the name sounds esoteric, and he is one of the world's top three intellectuals besides Noam Chomsky and Richard Dawkins. Another book on my shelf is called A Prayer For Owen Meany by John Irving. It's about some kid who kills another kid with a baseball and thinks he's some kind of instrument. Yeah, this isn't really classical, but read it anyway and tell me what you think.

    I would actually be very surprised and gratefully amused if you read these books and gave me your feedback.
    Noam Chomsky is some fuckin' dry reading. I have some amount of generic respect for the man, but I read for pleasure, and after reading a couple of his articles and attempting two of his books, I keep him at arm's length.
    John Irving, however is quite enjoyable. His most well-known is The World According to Garp. The movie is OK, but the book is amazing.
    Which reminds me, SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE! Kurt Vonnegut is another author I think history will be kind enough to remember. And while I definitely recommend the book over the movie, I would say the movie is one of the best adaptations of a book ever done. I would also recommend Blue Beard, Galapagos, Cat's Cradle and Breakfast of Champions - or watching a video of him speak; he's actually entertaining "live" as well (I was sad when he died not too long ago).
    And referencing killers - Catcher in the Rye was merely OK. I doubt it would have captured the US's interest if John Lennon's killer hadn't claimed that this book "told" him to do it.
    Dammit, you've got me started, and now it's hard to stop. I love reading. I'm taking notes on this thread myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    WHOA. Ok, now, he has to have smoother skin, more cheekbone definition, a slight touch of um, cruelty or disdain to his mouth and er, a different nose. But otherwise, we're totally there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The Island of the Day Before by Umberto Eco. I've not read it, but it's on my bookshelf for a reason, and the name sounds esoteric, and he is one of the world's top three intellectuals besides Noam Chomsky and Richard Dawkins. Another book on my shelf is called A Prayer For Owen Meany by John Irving. It's about some kid who kills another kid with a baseball and thinks he's some kind of instrument. Yeah, this isn't really classical, but read it anyway and tell me what you think.

    I would actually be very surprised and gratefully amused if you read these books and gave me your feedback.
    Umberto Eco is both brilliant and an insufferably self-satisfied pretentious asshat. Chances are, he's probably Beta. I've read passages from The Name of the Rose because I was using it to teach semiotics. It's brilliant and unlike his essays, less suffused with self-satisfaction with his own overwhelming intellect. Not that I mind that, just a warning to others who don't enjoy the company of self-absorbed people. He's self-absorbed, but I think he has a sense of humour about it - it flavours his writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    On an only somewhat related note, there's also the issue of physical maturity.
    I read Judy Blume's Forever when I was 9, which is a teen romance novel. I was old enough to understand that the characters were having sex, but since I had not yet myself felt the stirrings of my own pubescence, I was totally left behind by their subsequent motivations. The characters basically proclaim their undying love for one another and then inevitably drift apart, even sleeping with other people before breaking up. This confused the hell out of me.
    A few years later, I was like "OH!" and I had to go back and read what I already knew was a mediocre story at best, just because I had to put my mind to rest about the characters' actions. Sure enough, the whole thing made sense. Not that I approved of their actions any more than before, but I understood how their bodies' feelings played into their emotional feelings.
    What a difference hormones make.
    God yes. I read Flaubert, D H Lawrence, Anais Nin, Henry Miller etc all too young. So much literature is written about underlying and deeply disguised (well, less disguised in the case of Miller, Nin etc), impulses that only comes post-adolescence and I was just...could only access it at a very intellectualised level, which meant I was missing so much of what they were trying to convey.
    ()
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    Most authors are bad. dostoevosky could not get over the conditions of people's jackets enough to understand the human condition. or was that me?
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    WHOA. Ok, now, he has to have smoother skin, more cheekbone definition, a slight touch of um, cruelty or disdain to his mouth and er, a different nose. But otherwise, we're totally there!
    Are you ever satisfied with anything? (j/k) It would have been much easier if I knew how the person we're talking about actually looks.

    And I guess I should consider applying for a police sketch artist job lol.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Umberto Eco is both brilliant and an insufferably self-satisfied pretentious asshat. Chances are, he's probably Beta. I've read passages from The Name of the Rose because I was using it to teach semiotics. It's brilliant and unlike his essays, less suffused with self-satisfaction with his own overwhelming intellect. Not that I mind that, just a warning to others who don't enjoy the company of self-absorbed people. He's self-absorbed, but I think he has a sense of humour about it - it flavours his writing.


    lol @ the eco man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Are you ever satisfied with anything?
    Trust a Delta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Trust a Delta.
    What's your point, Ezhole?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Are you ever satisfied with anything? (j/k) It would have been much easier if I knew how the person we're talking about actually looks.

    And I guess I should consider applying for a police sketch artist job lol.
    YOU SHOULD.

    I'm rarely satisfied with anything, but I'm pleased with a lot. And hey, what makes this so much fun is that you don't know what he looks like.
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    YOU SHOULD.
    You have a unique way of making a motivational influence and strengthening people's will. I could see this working well in real life. With someone like you I might even be able to accomplish some of the things I dream for but can't get my shit together to work towards. Just a thought.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Cheers WP!

    lol, you're going to want to kick me, but we're getting warmer, but not hot yet. Too old and a touch too 'plump of cheek'. LSI is particularly angular in his case. I should make him eat more.
    ()
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    I know it's kinda late, but I just thought of two and wanted to post them before I forgot:

    Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson
    Tuck Everlasting, by Natalie Babbitt

    They're both fiction. The first is mostly just a fun story; the other has more a philosophical bent and is perhaps a little more thought provoking. I'm not sure if you can call them esoteric (I'm not sure exactly what's on school reading lists these days), but I think they're classics. And enjoyable.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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