I've been thinking about the SLE's I've been around lately

[Joy]

Ezra: SLE
FDG: EIE

That is all.

[Gilly]

I'm not really sure about either of their types, tbh. I know quite a few SLEs and I'm not sure that Ezra is one. He could be, but I'm not sure.

As for Fabio, I think he is Gamma>Beta. I know you don't like him any more, but he really doesn't strike me as either EIE or SLE, to be perfectly honest; EIE more than SLE, but more likely either Gamma extrovert IMO.

[Joy]

I know you don't like him any more

I don't have a problem with him. Never have.

[Gilly]

I never said you had a problem with him. I said you don't like him.

[Joy]

Hmm... "Like" is a subjective term. I don't dislike him, but I suppose I can't say I particularly like him at this point, though I do find him amusing.

[Gilly]

You don't harbor him any ill-will or anything like that, but I think it's obvious that you think poorly enough of him in general that there is sufficient motivation for you to not "want" him in your quadra.

[FDG]

Ezra: SLE
FDG: EIE

That is all.

I wish I had the Fe of EIE's. It could have been useful sometimes. Anyway, at the very least, EIE is of the EJ temperament, so it's a better typing than SEE or SLE, given that it's only one type away from my real one. But if you compare me to a good example of EIE like unefille, and if you see my reaction to her posts....it looks like extraverted feeling coupled with introverted intuition isn't my forte.

Fabio seems 3ish in some ways; that's about the only EIE-like thing about him.

That's right. I've analyzed the possibility that I am a 3, but ultimately I very much lack their astounding drive for future goals; I am more attuned to trying to enjoy the present and exploring what I personally like, even sometimes at the expense of "perfection" in the aforementioned goals.

Anyway, I'm curious Joy, what exactly made you think this?

[Expat]

Anyway, at the very least, EIE is of the EJ temperament, so it's a better typing than SEE or SLE, given that it's only one type away from my real one.

That depends on how you look at it. From this point of view, I would argue that SEE is closer to LIE since both are Gamma extroverts.

Anyway, to be totally honest, I don't have a firm idea on your type. In socionics terms - in terms of explaining your reasoning for your typing according to what I see as sound theory - you made the most sense when you thought you were SLE, especially from your descriptions of Se dominance (and EP temperament) which made a lot of sense. At the same time, there were incongruencies regarding Beta that seemed to make you uncomfortable and did not really seem to fit you. That is, I think, why many people consider SEE as the most likely type. The main argument against it seems to be "not Ti PoLR", which I would argue is made from misunderstandings of what a Ti PoLR is.

On the other hand, other things point towards Beta in my opinion, although I had never even considered EIE.

For what it's worth, since I met both FDG and Ezra, I can say that the main obvious difference is that FDG maintained a friendly, "happy" and "life is not so serious" expression and attitude in the time I spent with him, while Ezra is at least as likely to adopt a colder, even icy, attitude while thinking or discussing something serious. I can far more easily see a potential "Beta revolutionary" in Ezra than in FDG.

These are my impressions, I'm not making a case for any specific type.

[strrrng]

For what it's worth, since I met both FDG and Ezra, I can say that the main obvious difference is that FDG maintained a friendly, "happy" and "life is not so serious" expression and attitude in the time I spent with him, while Ezra is at least as likely to adopt a colder, even icy, attitude while thinking or discussing something serious. I can far more easily see a potential "Beta revolutionary" in Ezra than in FDG.

This makes sense, but I would attribute it to their enneagram types as well - Fabio being a 7 and Ezra being (probably) an 8 (and even if he was a 6, the tendencies wouldn't change too much). That being said, it seems to be good evidence against Fabio being beta, as even an SLE 7 would still have that attitude you described in Ezra.

As for the socionics typings, I see nothing outside of beta ST for Ezra anymore. SLE --> LSI. For Fabio, gamma extrovert works best IMO.

[Expat]

This makes sense, but I would attribute it to their enneagram types as well - Fabio being a 7 and Ezra being (probably) an 8 (and even if he was a 6, the tendencies wouldn't change too much). That being said, it seems to be good evidence against Fabio being beta, as even an SLE 7 would still have that attitude you described in Ezra.

As for the socionics typings, I see nothing outside of beta ST for Ezra anymore. SLE --> LSI. For Fabio, gamma extrovert works best IMO.

I elaborate with another far more subjective impression, but it is something I did notice.

It has nothing to do with their actual size since they are of similar heights and build (although Fabio, not surprisingly, seems to be in better shape). Fabio makes a more benevolent impression than Ezra. Meeting him, it's hard to see him as any kind of threat - not because he could not, but it's hard to see him wanting to be one. Ezra does have the aura of being a "potential threat". One way to put it is "easy-going". Fabio is thoroughly easy-going and at ease with himself. Ezra is more tense.

[strrrng]

It has nothing to do with their actual size since they are of similar heights and build (although Fabio, not surprisingly, seems to be in better shape). Fabio makes a more benevolent impression than Ezra. Meeting him, it's hard to see him as any kind of threat - not because he could not, but it's hard to see him wanting to be one. Ezra does have the aura of being a "potential threat". One way to put it is "easy-going". Fabio is thoroughly easy-going and at ease with himself. Ezra is more tense.

Right, and I believe this could either be because Ezra is a counter-phobic 6 who is constantly attuned to potential threats, or because he is an 8 who simply has that demeanor about him.

[FDG]

I elaborate with another far more subjective impression, but it is something I did notice.

It has nothing to do with their actual size since they are of similar heights and build (although Fabio, not surprisingly, seems to be in better shape). Fabio makes a more benevolent impression than Ezra. Meeting him, it's hard to see him as any kind of threat - not because he could not, but it's hard to see him wanting to be one. Ezra does have the aura of being a "potential threat". One way to put it is "easy-going". Fabio is thoroughly easy-going and at ease with himself. Ezra is more tense.

ahah, right, I don't even really think I could be a threat to anybody, except to deers when I bike downhill

That depends on how you look at it. From this point of view, I would argue that SEE is closer to LIE since both are Gamma extroverts.

Eh but you know I like the temperament ring theory...

[aestrivex]

That depends on how you look at it. From this point of view, I would argue that SEE is closer to LIE since both are Gamma extroverts.

Anyway, to be totally honest, I don't have a firm idea on your type. In socionics terms - in terms of explaining your reasoning for your typing according to what I see as sound theory - you made the most sense when you thought you were SLE, especially from your descriptions of Se dominance (and EP temperament) which made a lot of sense. At the same time, there were incongruencies regarding Beta that seemed to make you uncomfortable and did not really seem to fit you. That is, I think, why many people consider SEE as the most likely type. The main argument against it seems to be "not Ti PoLR", which I would argue is made from misunderstandings of what a Ti PoLR is.

On the other hand, other things point towards Beta in my opinion, although I had never even considered EIE.

For what it's worth, since I met both FDG and Ezra, I can say that the main obvious difference is that FDG maintained a friendly, "happy" and "life is not so serious" expression and attitude in the time I spent with him, while Ezra is at least as likely to adopt a colder, even icy, attitude while thinking or discussing something serious. I can far more easily see a potential "Beta revolutionary" in Ezra than in FDG.

These are my impressions, I'm not making a case for any specific type.

FDG as more "relaxed" makes perfect sense. in either case it fits very well with the idea of him as SLE; basically the math-controls-my-life stuff (ie shit like this) makes me see anything other than SLE as very unlikely for FDG at this point.

[unefille]

FDG as more "relaxed" makes perfect sense. in either case it fits very well with the idea of him as SLE; basically the math-controls-my-life stuff (ie shit like this) makes me see anything other than SLE as very unlikely for FDG at this point.

Not debating Fabio's type per se, but all that example demonstrates is a common approach taken by students of eocnomics; it indicates logic and learning, primarily, since the equation is a standard calculation of value.

I don't think there's an argument to made that Ti-egos are necessarily more drawn to, or more susceptible to, economic learning than Te-egos. I might be wrong, of course.

[aestrivex]

I don't think there's an argument to made that Ti-egos are necessarily more drawn to, or more susceptible to, economic learning than Te-egos. I might be wrong, of course.

i believe this type of rather absolutist type of economico-logical thought is inordinately Ti in origin. to the point of absurdity really.


also i think that this type of thought is not so much an absolute subscription to this method of thought (it never wanted to say that it controls his life so much as that this type of Ti stuff is stuff that he talks about rather constantly and places an inordinate amount of interest and value in -- he does this very naturally i think).

[crazedrat]

FDG isn't EIE you big joyful dumbass

[implied]

bad idea. but i'm also curious about joy's reasoning for thinking this. anyhow, you can't drop a bomb like that and then not give any reasoning at all.

[Joy]

anyhow, you can't drop a bomb like that and then not give any reasoning at all.

alright alright alright... I suppose there's no harm in providing a few reasons (as long as I don't get sucked into a debate).

First of all, yes... my typing methods are partially subjective (looking at shared quadra values and intertype relations and whatnot). I'm not interested in debating the validity of these or any other typing methods, but there are existing debates as such scattered about the forum if you're really interested in understanding my reasons.

Anyways, I'll start with discounting my former reasons for thinking that they weren't SLE and EIE.

For a long time I've thought of SLE's as one of the types that I didn't particularly get along with or think much of, but upon a little bit of reflection, I really don't know why. I've pretty always sort of superficially "clicked" with the SLE's I've met irl. The way I get along with SLE acquaintances is not all that different from the way I get along with IEE acquaintances, which makes sense. They're not people who I think "wow, I would really like to get to know him/her better", but there is an ease in communication and I seem to "get" them the way that IEE's seem to "get" me.

I have come to believe that my past understanding of Si PoLR's was also flawed. I definitely think it's possible for people with a Si PoLR to consistently train their body or enjoy regular physical exercise. They may do it with a different mindset than types with strong Si, but they are capable of doing it just the same. To give an example, I think Arnold Schwarzenegger is LIE, based on what I know of him (which admittedly isn't an enormous amount). The bottom line is that I was using a Si PoLR to explain some of my character flaws (instead of just doing what I needed to do to fix them). This led to a grossly inaccurate understanding of the capabilities of Si PoLR types.

As for the reasons that I think that FDG is not SLE (or SEE, for that matter), they have mostly to do with Fe and Ti, and to a lesser extent Fi. Basically, I don't think he's SLE for the same reasons (related to Fe and Fi) that I don't think Ashton is SLE (see what I wrote about his type on the wiki consensus list if you're curious). Also, Ti dual seeking makes more sense for him than Ti PoLR or even Ti creative. Look at how he responds to (and greatly respects) Ti explanations, but also note the lack of Ti in his own posts. Ezra has readily shown more Ti than FDG has in the way he came here immediately looking to correlate typology systems (that is, to understand Socionics at least in part by figuring out how it fit into the existing framework of other typology systems he already understood). Also, he was not at all quick to discard/get past some of the early correlations and understandings he had built into his framework of understanding of Socionics.

One could argue that Ashton has built his own Ti system, but I think the difference is that Ashton's Ti system was built over a longer period of time and is much more comprehensive than Ezra's. It's more of a rational approach to Ti than an irrational/creative approach, you could say. I think the reason that FDG hasn't done the same thing Ashton has is that he simply isn't willing to put that kind of time or attention into Socionics. FDG appears to be a more healthy and balanced person, and it sounds like he has some very time-consuming interests outside of this community.

The thing about FDG that doesn't fit into the EIE typing is the appearance of a laid back outlook on life. The fact that he identifies with +++ and enneagram 7 does seem more EP-ish than EJ-ish. His signature strengths also seem more SEE (or at least EP) than not. I still think EIE makes the most sense for him overall, though.

As for Ezra being SLE, I don't have a huge case to make for it (or rather, I don't want to invest the time required to make a huge case for it), but I think most people already think he's SLE and there have been many cases made for this, so aside from what I already said about his Ti approach to typology theories, I'll just offer my subjective reasons. The reason I was thinking about it and changed my mind about my typing of him is because I had a SLE client yesterday and had talked at length with a SLE professional acquaintance relatively recently and the way they responded to me reminded me of the way Ezra responded to me. One aspect of this was that they seemed to appreciate the Ni way I explained things (rather similarly to how I appreciate the Fi way IEE's explain things, actually). This is part of the ease of communication that I described above.

So anyways, my intention in making this thread was not to convince anyone of anything, but rather to simply state that I have changed my opinion. This post offers some of my reasons, but as I said before I have no interest in or time to invest in debating or further explaining my reasons or either of their types.

[strrrng]

I have come to believe that my past understanding of Si PoLR's was also flawed. I definitely think it's possible for people with a Si PoLR to consistently train their body or enjoy regular physical exercise. They may do it with a different mindset than types with strong Si, but they are capable of doing it just the same. To give an example, I think Arnold Schwarzenegger is LIE, based on what I know of him (which admittedly isn't an enormous amount). The bottom line is that I was using a Si PoLR to explain some of my character flaws (instead of just doing what I needed to do to fix them). This led to a grossly inaccurate understanding of the capabilities of Si PoLR types.

+20

[FDG]

I can't understand how niffweed thinkis that I "must" be Ti because "math rules my life" (??) and Joy thinks I "completely lack" Ti (??).

It's more likely for the truth to be inbetween these extreme positions, in my opinion.

[Expat]

It's more likely for the truth to be inbetween these extreme positions, in my opinion.

Someone says, "FDG is completely straight".
Someone else says, "FDG is completely gay".

FDG says -- as above.

[Joy]

I can't understand how niffweed thinkis that I "must" be Ti because "math rules my life" (??) and Joy thinks I "completely lack" Ti (??).

It's more likely for the truth to be inbetween these extreme positions, in my opinion.

I do think you value Ti and "live by" Ti systems (in a sense)... I just don't think you possess strong Ti. It's not "your" Ti systems that you "live by", it's the Ti systems that others have explained to you.

[Ezra]

FDG as more "relaxed" makes perfect sense. in either case it fits very well with the idea of him as SLE; basically the math-controls-my-life stuff (ie shit like this) makes me see anything other than SLE as very unlikely for FDG at this point.

What do you expect from an economist?

[FDG]

Btw I think Peter is generally (well, from what I can deduce from our interaction) quite relaxed and friendly too, not tense at all (if that's an argument against Ezra being an 8 - but to be taken with a huge grain of salt - beware of high pressure). Yes, he's a bit more "serious" than me, but that can be a result of age and upbringing and personal preferences IMHO - I know this distinction isn't generally very well received but it does play a part.

[aestrivex]

What do you expect from an economist?

i expect that most people who dive headlong into economics and argue for rather staunch positions are Ti types. the people who do that on this community are pretty universally betas, but that's not a fair comparison because there are so many more betas here than not.