Evolution only
Creationism only
Both evolution and creationism on even ground, as science
Evolution as science, creationism as a social study alongside other myths
Don't know enough to have an opinion/Don't care
I believe they're essentially the same thing anyway
No. The same thing can not be said about the opposite end of people. One side is objectively right (Expat's side), and the other side is objectively wrong (your side).Originally Posted by dbmmama
Your idiocy is unacceptable. Your way of thinking is objectively evil.
So long as you believe in intelligent design you are an insult to humanity and intelligence in general. You are insulting me with your idiotic beliefs and your disgustingly brainwashed way of thinking.
But I mind insults from idiots with no mind(e). As I have already stated, your way of thinking is evil, and you are an evil person. Your stance is unacceptable and should be severely criticized and furiously attacked.
It's good that you feel hurt. That's a means to knowing that something is wrong with you. You should start to question your world view and its premises. You are objectively wrong, and that's bad.
Yes, it is.
Good. Having religious beliefs is inconsistent with having a correct scientific approach and way of thinking. You are wrong and you are evil if you think like you do now.
If you are a creationist you can be nothing else than a charlatan. A creationist cannot be a serious scientist. Every creationist is necessarily deluded.
The word Objective means something that is "mind independent". If you don't know if your perception of what reality is is correct, or if you don't know if your senses are accurate, how would you know if the moon isn't made of Gorgonzola cheese independent of your mind.
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shut up1. To advocate relativism, even some sophisticated relativism, is to commit the relativist fallacy.
2. If one commits a fallacy, one says something false or not worth serious consideration.
3. Therefore, to advocate relativism, even some sophisticated relativism, is to say something false or not worth serious consideration.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Though in general is based on assumptions. It is impossible to think without making a categorical assumption or a logical fallacy. Of course its a fallacy to think everything is relativistic, its also a fallacy to think that relativism is a fallacy. Everything that I'm saying here is a logical fallacy(even the last sentence).
Human perception is a system of categorical thoughts, assuming what reality is and how reality is(yes this is a logical fallacy). Perception is basically an assumption. Descartes said "I think therefore I am".
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lol
4w3-5w6-8w7
That site claims that nothing preceded God because God created Time...this does not demonstrate 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that God created the Universe...
I could say that before the Universe began, there was no Space, Time, or Matter, therefore anything before the Big Bang doesn't matter, and clearly the Universe created itself.
Interesting website minde. I find that some of these claims, though, should take into account the antropic principle before referring to God. If there wasn't an intelligent design, how could humans claim that there was an intelligent design? They couldn't, because a nonsuitable universe wouldn't have supported human life. Conversely, an universe that supports uman life is tautologically "Intelligently" designed, given that otherwise we could not observe it.
A great and quick book on the matter, which I advise to everybody, is Ervin Laszlo's "Evolution". It explains well how in an universe where entropy is ever-increasing there can be so many entropy-decreasing systems organized in very complex ways, from galaxies to our brain to human society. I especially reccomend this book to whoever thinks that it is hard to believe that the casual evolutionary process which is often attributed to the Darwinian theory can construct something like homo sapiens: it's because evolution is not casual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antropic_principle
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Gran.../dp/0877733899
This said, I think that Creationism is excessively intertwined with religion to be safely taught at school in an environment which is progressively becoming more international and more open to people coming from very diverse backgrounds.
Last edited by FDG; 09-15-2008 at 01:04 PM.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
What I find funny is that when I say that on stickam, you and Ashton say that it has no practicality or whatever(which I don't particularly agree with), and then when I try to use
"practical" logic Ashton brings up Epistemological fallacy, which is basically the same thing as truth relativism. You sit there and concur with him.
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Finally you realize something important about yourself ...
Yes.
No.
Yes.
I struggle to see any remote value which hitta's extreme relativistic views could possibly have.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
No, you clown. Do not try to skew the situation to mitigate your pathetic ego. First of all, most of the time in stickam, EVERYONE corrects you on your relativistic bs. That being said, I have no fucking clue what you mean by "practical logic," but whenever you bring something up regarding epistemology, it typically revolves around the theme of not being able to truly know anything (the epistemological fallacy deals with treating all phenomena as something dependent on our idea/theory about it), which EVERYONE corrects you on again. The order in which people bring it up and agree is irrelevant, as everyone sees the stupidity of your claims.
Oh yeah, and don't pretend like Ashton and I are some tag team. He would tell you himself (and many others would agree, too) that I have single-handedly proved your arguments wrong time and time again, leaving you there to rationalize with your vacuous TiNe crap.
So fuck off with the lies, buddy.
4w3-5w6-8w7
That's because they have absolutely no value. He just professes them to make himself feel and appear smart. It's all empty, though.
4w3-5w6-8w7
No. His view seems to be "there's no way to prove anything 100%, so there's no point in looking at what scientific evidence we DO have." I think that's just plain foolish. Which is fine for any one person choosing for his/her particular life, but it had better not be taught to my kid. I want her to learn real science. I don't send her to school to learn to disregard scientific evidence just because we can't get absolute proof of anything. There's enough solid scientific evidence there to work with, and that's what she needs.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
... What an utterly pointless struggle ...
Agreed. Too bad hitta can't see how inherently contradictory his position is (or maybe he can, and rationalizes with the idea that everything is contradictory lol).
4w3-5w6-8w7
I don't think it really matters. Currently, there is no way to be 100% certain, so why not just let the matter rest.
If choosing to have faith and believe in a Higher power is what brings peace to some people, then so be it.
If wrapping oneself up in scientific explanations is what makes the most sense to others, then so be it.
But really, I don't see how it matters.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
John Muir
What is taught in public school matters. Scientific evidence very strongly points in one direction, and it's ridiculous to not teach that.
What people choose to believe personally doesn't matter to me. What they want to teach my kid DOES matter very much to me.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Currently public schools are teaching in accordance with your beliefs, are they not?
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
John Muir
If you can't see that what is a valuable thing is dependent on the person, you are missing my point completely. People have a theoretical framework in which they live by, which values certain things over others. This is a "logical fallacy" or what Ashton calls an "Epistemological Fallacy"(though he only uses it in certain situations). Practicality is a human made concept that has no certifiable objectivity to it. There are always more possibilities, more ways to look at something.
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Yes but things are moving toward a change. When I was a kid, the idea of creationism being taught in schools was a joke. Really - people would laugh and think it was ridiculous that we'd even be having this discussion. Now people seriously discuss it and give arguments as to why it should happen.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
We can't have 100% certainty on stuff, so let's just give up. Eternally bound to schroedinger's cat, boohoo.
Stop being such a lazy ISFp.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I look forward to the day when you surmount this philosophical roadblock.
Until then, I will continue to criticize your arguments and insult you at random intervals.
Or maybe you will never get past it, and will die in agnostic doubt.
Whatever.
4w3-5w6-8w7
No, you idiot. It is 100 % certain that there are currently no evidence for intelligent design and that there no good arguments for it either. It is also 100 % certain that hitta's arguments are totally false and logically incoherent. You take an immoral stance on this matter if you let it rest.
No, then they are brainwashed idiots. It is irrelevant that they may find peace in superstitions.
You don't see that it matters because you haven't studied the moral consequences of different ethical positions, and you don't realize what's at stake. You have a lot of study to do before you get a correct overall picture of what it's all about.
Just because I accept something doesn't make it correct. Another thing is I'm not denying the existence of absolute truth, I'm merely saying that human knowledge is possibly limited. We assume that this reality is "truth", that 2+2=4. There are infinite possibilities though, things that we can't even fathom. And until we can see everything(though its a fallacy to think of truth in the terms I'm using, or to even think of it as truth) we are possibly clueless as to whether we have truth or not.
Reality to me feels paradoxical or illusionary. To be honest, reality is all I know, and yet I feel as if reality isn't truth. I essentially want to take space and pull it apart with my hands and stick my head through. I want to see something where things actually make sense. I essentially want to be entirely divine; entirely special. I want to transcend this world, and become supreme and all knowing. I want to feel like I have all the answers to everything, to all the paradoxes and the mysteries of everything beyond this perception.
I enjoy life. I enjoy sensual pleasures just like most people I would think would; but I'm entirely open and hoping that there is something out there that defies existence and defies what I hope is an illusion, and become something truly important. You can keep masturbating to your practicality all you want.
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Such a philosophy is incapable of producing anything.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Topics like these will go no where.
-_-
INTp
sx/sp
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." ~ Einstein
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what would appease you?
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
John Muir
Phaedrus is blind to the possibilities of our existence.
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Giving up and letting a matter rest are quite different.
Not everything can be attributed to type. In fact, most things cannot. I merely see the futileness of threads such as these and I sigh. Next time I will know better than to get involved.
PS - It's spelled Schrödinger.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
John Muir
Why do you keep reiterating your position to me lol? I am well aware of where you stand, and I don't value your proposals, for the most part. They are only useful on the most abstract, speculative level. If you're content with that, fine. But don't keep bothering me with them, merely rephrasing the syntax to make it seem better or more convincing lol.
4w3-5w6-8w7
"oe" replaces o with an umlaut if your keyboard doesn't do that.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I can do anything I want. *spits*
Besides, all I hear you do is reiterate your positions on everyone's enneagram types.
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That people ceased to defend superstitions, mumbo jumbo, and obviously false ideas.
I'm afraid you will never be appeased. How do you plan to reconcile with this?
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
John Muir
You're a cp6w5 so/sp lol.
4w3-5w6-8w7
The concepts of "preceded" and "before" require Time.
Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.
I pity your souls
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