Romancing styles - female "aggressors"

[Nexus]

In machintruc model there's a slight variation, where the level of norephinephrine is connected to being sp-so-sx (sp least nor, so intermediate, sx most). The types would remain distinguished since 2 variables in 3 different states are enough to combine 9 types. It's a nice idea, I'm not certain it applies, but it makes some sense

I would expect sp to have the highest levels of norepinephrine, since it is responsible for fight-or-flight behavior. Sex is regulated by serotonin.

[strrrng]

If I get that nauseated or anxious feeling, it's usually right before I do something I havn't done before and therefore don't know what to expect. If no one tells me how it's going to unfold then I start to imagine everything that can go wrong. When I try to imagine everything that can go wrong...I realize I don't even know what I'm thinking about and I don't even really know what could go wrong...which makes it worse.

Whenever I'm feeling upset by something and I don't really know EXACTLY what it is...I DO talk to people. Rather than go out and do a bunch of random stuff. I do the random stuff AFTER I talk to someone trustworthy. I usually need to get a free-flowing stream of thought going to someone in order to convince myself that I have to go and get out of wherever I am. I don't even really need feed-back half of the time...just someone to listen to my inner thoughts and let me hear them out loud so I can stop dwelling. I don't necessarily NOT like people....I'm pretty critical of them most of the time though...and this can seem cynical. But the ones I talk to are ones I hold in high-regard...an inner circle of sorts. I have several layers of inner circles...kind of like an atom with its rings of neurons and electrons.

This is indisputable evidence for your being a 6 IMO. Needing guidance, having anxieties that you quell through talking to "supporters," having a strong inner circle and fearing changes all point to a 6 fixation.

@Fabio: good points.

@huitzilopochtli: I got that information from an enneagram website. A study was conducted throughout the various triads regarding those three chemicals, and that piece of data stuck out in my mind.

[Nexus]

@huitzilopochtli: I got that information from an enneagram website. A study was conducted throughout the various triads regarding those three chemicals, and that piece of data stuck out in my mind.

In the central nervous system, serotonin plays an important role as a neurotransmitter in the modulation of anger, aggression, body temperature, mood, sleep, sexuality, appetite, and metabolism, as well as stimulating vomiting.

Norepinephrine is also released from postganglionic neurons of the sympathetic nervous system, to transmit the fight-or-flight response in each tissue respectively.

Maybe you mixed them up. Do you have a reference for the enneagram study?

[FDG]

I would expect sp to have the highest levels of norepinephrine, since it is responsible for fight-or-flight behavior. Sex is regulated by serotonin.

Sex can be regulated by the pleasure-reward pathaway created by dopamine(1). Also by serotonin, yes.

I'm open to changes about the norepinephrine part, however let's take into account that fight-or-flight behavior is often seen in sx types too, even if for other reasons.

You're a pain to discuss with. This is not a race to who is right. Calm down. Not every post needs to be an academic paper.

1. http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v.../3900719a.html

[strrrng]

Maybe you mixed them up. Do you have a reference for the enneagram study?

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp

[Nexus]

Sex can be regulated by the pleasure-reward pathaway created by dopamine(1). Also by serotonin, yes.

I'm open to changes about the norepinephrine part, however let's take into account that fight-or-flight behavior is often seen in sx types too, even if for other reasons.

You're a pain to discuss with. This is not a race to who is right. Calm down. Not every post needs to be an academic paper.

1. http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v.../3900719a.html

Oh I quite agree with that assumption, as dopamine modulates reward-seeking and concentration, both necessary for intercourse. However sex is regulated by serotonin even when intercourse is not occurring and orgasming is not the primary focus. Also, I still fail to see the correlation between sex and norepinephrine.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp

Thank you. Much of it seems correct, especially concerning confidence, arousal, and moodiness. Unfortunately I must disagree with one premise:

Dopamine can be considered a basic modulator of physical endurance or drive. Serotonin can be considered a basic modulator of psychological well being. Norepinepherine can be considered a basic modulator of focused thinking and mental drive.

Dopamine is related to specific tasks and focus; it has been demonstrated conclusively that when dopamine is blocked concentration on even a simple task is nearly impossible, however a chemical that mimics dopamine is sufficient to coordinate this behavior and reinstitute attention. Norepinephrine would be more involved in less focused activities like avoidance behaviors that do not have an easily attainable goal (promoting confidence) and are not otherwise specifically self-reinforcing. Arousal is meant to wake you up to danger and not force you to concentrate on a specific task.

[Ezra]

Umm, no. I have no clue why you think a 6 wouldn't be aggressive and want a challenge. Have you read the section on sx 6's in the wisdom of the enneagram?

I'd have a read of it again if I had it with me (unfortunately it's at my house at uni). But from what I remember Sixes are aggressive out of fear; the challenge is undertaken to alleviate said fear. Sexual-firsts take this attitude, so I'm with you on that one, but I don't sense this from Kelly. She seems to want to undertake the challenge because it's fun and interesting to undertake (in fact, didn't she actually state this?). I basically see the motivation in her as related to enjoyment- and pleasure-seeking behaviour, as opposed to a fear and insecurity.

This stereotype is irrelevant anyway.

What, because it's true, or because you think it's bullshit?

It's not just about enjoyment; it's derived from a search for internal contentment and feeling like their needs are met.

For healthy Sevens, it's certainly the case that they'd explain their drive in this way. However, for unhealthy Sevens, from an outsiders point of view - on the surface - it looks as if they're just hedonistic and materialistic.

Isn't being a seven simply the result of, as machintruc would say, having high dopamin and high serotonin?

And high norepinephrine.

From what you've said, Seven sounds like a legit option. I believe that I just need more information on the enneagram. I don't have an argument for why I choose Six over Seven...I did at one point or another...but it's escaped me...(sounds pretty stupid eh?)

As long as

links pls? anyone? everyone?!? gogogogo

I guess you don't take it seriously enough to check out The Wisdom of the Enneagram by R&H or any of Palmer's stuff.

Nonetheless, these links should make for a quick, enlightening read (from shortest to longest):

9types.com's description of the Seven

Enneagram Central's Seven type description

Eclectic Energies' view of the Seven

Enneagram Worldwide's picture of the Seven

The Enneagram Institute's picture of the Seven

That should be enough for you to be getting on with. (If not, come back for more links. )

In machintruc model there's a slight variation, where the level of norephinephrine is connected to being sp-so-sx (sp least nor, so intermediate, sx most). The types would remain distinguished since 2 variables in 3 different states are enough to combine 9 types. It's a nice idea, I'm not certain it applies, but it makes some sense

Has machintruc really done much except change the names of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine to "S", "N" and "D" respectively, applying "-" for low amounts, "+" for high amounts and "0" for moderate amounts? Hardly a model.

However sex is regulated by serotonin even when intercourse is not occurring and orgasming is not the primary focus.

Which, if the theory of Enneagram and brain chemistry is correct, means Twos, Sevens and Nines have the best sex.

Dopamine can be considered a basic modulator of physical endurance or drive. Serotonin can be considered a basic modulator of psychological well being. Norepinepherine can be considered a basic modulator of focused thinking and mental drive.

Dopamine is related to specific tasks and focus; it has been demonstrated conclusively that when dopamine is blocked concentration on even a simple task is nearly impossible, however a chemical that mimics dopamine is sufficient to coordinate this behavior and reinstitute attention.

This does not contradict what the article says.

Norepinephrine would be more involved in less focused activities like avoidance behaviors that do not have an easily attainable goal (promoting confidence) and are not otherwise specifically self-reinforcing. Arousal is meant to wake you up to danger and not force you to concentrate on a specific task.

Exactly. Sixes are always awake to danger, because they think there is danger. This is perfectly in line with the theory.

[strrrng]

I'd have a read of it again if I had it with me (unfortunately it's at my house at uni). But from what I remember Sixes are aggressive out of fear; the challenge is undertaken to alleviate said fear. Sexual-firsts take this attitude, so I'm with you on that one, but I don't sense this from Kelly. She seems to want to undertake the challenge because it's fun and interesting to undertake (in fact, didn't she actually state this?). I basically see the motivation in her as related to enjoyment- and pleasure-seeking behaviour, as opposed to a fear and insecurity.

Maybe she's so/sx. Either way, that paragraph of hers I quoted from before is conclusive evidence for 6 IMO.

]What, because it's true, or because you think it's bullshit?

Bullshit, basically, at least in this context.

For healthy Sevens, it's certainly the case that they'd explain their drive in this way. However, for unhealthy Sevens, from an outsiders point of view - on the surface - it looks as if they're just hedonistic and materialistic.

Same motivation, regardless.

[Nexus]

This does not contradict what the article says.

Perhaps, but I disagree that such abstract 'core fixations' as are unique to each type can be represented as a combination of neurotransmitter concentrations.