.
ILE
SEI
ESE
LII
SLE
IEI
EIE
LSI
SEE
ILI
LIE
ESI
IEE
SLI
LSE
EII
.
lol...why doat everything jessica says lately?
4w3-5w6-8w7
Fe-ESFj ftw
4w3-5w6-8w7
Yes, exactly. A so/sx 3w2 EIE.Originally Posted by Ezra
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Hmmm
Well either way, I see the GOP as giving her a very clear role and script to play for the purposes of this election (just like all the other candidates are being given scripts by their parties).
Perhaps she is an EIE playing a motivated ESI, rather than an ESI being asked to play a motivating EIE.
We'll have to see.
In comparison to another extremely hardline ESI politician I met and spent time with recently, Palin is not very similar. The ESI is extremely groudned and much less concerned with being "girly" or being luminous in any sort of way. And I can see that Palin is changing somewhat from what I originally saw her as.
But I'm not sure yet.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I think Palin is ESFj. She looks and acts similar to all the ESFj's i've known. McCain is most likely ISTj, imo.
agree. seems very intutive.
asd
Who seems intuitive?
oh, i meant the conclusion that they are esfj and istj. mccain is bordering on an istj stereotype.
asd
I agree about pallin, but mccain seems ESTj IMO.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I disagree about Palin being ESFj.
Reasons why--from examples to theory, roughly:
*Palin's 'ethics' come across as clumsy and understated, (see Tina Fey's dead-on impression)--one might even say 'deep-seated'--not at all as forceful and 'written on one's face' as any ESFj (female) I've ever encountered. (Think Sandra Bullock and/or Paula Abdul--and then think Palin... Compare/contrast.)
*Palin seems to possess Se and value Se, e.g. anyone ever seen the pictures of Palin holding up that large dead animal and gun, or seen an interview with her husband Todd? (He's clearly Se valuing.) Furthermore, take into account her life-patterns: beauty pageant competitor, state basketball champion, "Sarah Barracuda"... In her stump speeches, she continually refers to herself as a "fighter." (None of this should sound ESE to you--b/c, well, she's not ESE...) If you read any interviews with those who've worked for Palin: they have said, 'this is a person who has been out to control her environment and win at all costs...'
* There has been NO exhibited preference for Si in any interview I've seen, i.e. nothing to suggest Si in ego. (Having a tanning bed in the governor's mansion does not count, lol... It was for 'seasonal depression,' she has said.) Also, just b/c she smiles a lot doesn't mean she's Fe-leading... Compare Palin's smiles to the smiles of Fe leading ppl, e.g. ESFj Bulluck or Paula Abdul... And then compare them to Fi-leading ppl, e.g. ISFj reese witherspoon... (another bad actress lol)
*In interviews, e.g. Gibson, Couric, when questioned about her future role as vice president, Palin has rattled off laundry lists of Te (e.g. "solving our energy woes")/ Fi ("fighting for special needs children") objectives... She has said NOTHING to suggest that she values Ti, (b/c she does not... She simply does not metabolize info hierarchically.)
Rick's summation of the ESI's type message sums up Palin's personality almost perfectly: "ESI - Recognizing and balancing people's needs and expectations." This is EXACTLY what she touts in her stump speeches about her "reforms" in Alaska... This is what she's PROUD OF.
I suggest to those who are considering ESFj for Palin--if they actually care--go back and take a serious look at the things she's said, and how she's lived her life...I don't believe it's any coincidence that the alphas I know feel complete and total antipathy for her, whereas many of the gammas I know feel sympathetic... ESFJ may be the correct typing in MBTI--but if you're looking at Socionics functions... Well, look fucking harder.
Last edited by JuJu; 10-11-2008 at 04:23 AM. Reason: spelling
I think McCain is Delta ST... (Compare with Delta ST Sir Alan Sugar--very similar...) I've slowly come to the conclusion that he's probably an ESTj whose energy levels appear low due to age/fatigue of campaigning/deathly pallor.
Personally, I find his life-story admirable; however, I've sensed that if I ever got into a room with him, shit would hit the fan pretty quickly... And this comes from someone who likes hard-headed old bastards who tell war stories.
In interviews, he and Palin seem to get along genuinely/compliment each other well... She softens him, and he makes her seem credible. It is a good team politically, and to be honest, I imagine they probably would've won this election (like Kerry/Bush, by just a little,) had fate not stepped in like an arsonist and lit the economy like a roman candle.
Even though he'll lose, McCain's gonna do better in the general election than ppl think... I know ppl haven't been answering that "would you mind voting for a black person?" question honestly... No one wants to admit they are a racist to a stranger asking their opinions over the phone.
why would an ESI's ethics come across as clumsy and understated? or were you referring to Fe specifically?
I was contrasting it with Fe--Fe leading, specifically, which I've found VERY noticeable.
Palin is much more restrained in her use of Fe--she picks her spots and has never come on too strong--whereas ESFjs (hell, both Fe-leadings) often come on very strong. Think: Fe-leading Joe Biden (who cried in the debate) and Obama, who have manifested great depth of feeling in their speeches--compare this with Palin...
This is not just a gender difference--it's a difference of functional preference.
I disagree about Palin being ESFj.
Reasons why--from examples to theory, roughly:*Palin's 'ethics' come across as clumsy and understated, (see Tina Fey's dead-on impression)--one might even say 'deep-seated'--not at all as
forceful and 'written on one's face' as any ESFj (female) I've ever encountered. (Think Sandra Bullock and/or Paula Abdul--and then think Palin... Compare/contrast.)
*Palin seems to possess Se and value Se, e.g. anyone ever seen the pictures of Palin holding up that large dead animal and gun, or seen an interview with her husband Todd? (He's clearly Se valuing.) Furthermore, take into account her life-patterns: beauty pageant competitor, state basketball champion, "Sarah Barracuda"... In her stump speeches, she continually refers to herself as a "fighter." (None of this should sound ESE to you--b/c, well, she's not ESE...) If you read any interviews with those who've worked for Palin: they have said, 'this is a person who has been out to control her environment and win at all costs...'
* There has been NO exhibited preference for Si in any interview I've seen, i.e. nothing to suggest Si in ego. (Having a tanning bed in the governor's mansion does not count, lol... It was for 'seasonal depression,' she has said.) Also, just b/c she smiles a lot doesn't mean she's Fe-leading... Compare Palin's smiles to the smiles of Fe leading ppl, e.g. ESFj Bulluck or Paula Abdul... And then compare them to Fi-leading ppl, e.g. ISFj reese witherspoon... (another bad actress lol)
*In interviews, e.g. Gibson, Couric, when questioned about her future role as vice president, Palin has rattled off laundry lists of Te (e.g. "solving our energy woes")/ Fi ("fighting for special needs children") objectives... She has said NOTHING to suggest that she values Ti, (b/c she does not... She simply does not metabolize info hierarchically.)
Rick's summation of the ESI's type message sums up Palin's personality almost perfectly: "ESI - Recognizing and balancing people's needs and expectations." This is EXACTLY what she touts in her stump speeches about her "reforms" in Alaska... This is what she's PROUD OF.
I suggest to those who are considering ESFj for Palin--if they actually care--go back and take a serious look at the things she's said, and how she's lived her life...I don't believe it's any coincidence that the alphas I know feel complete and total antipathy for her, whereas many of the gammas I know feel sympathetic... ESFJ may be the correct typing in MBTI--but if you're looking at Socionics functions... Well, look fucking harder.
I'm not trying to start an argument here, since you are quite obviously very opinionated about this. However, I don't think you can take certain qualities and use those to say that she can't possible be ESFj. For example, just because she likes to hunt and has been in beauty pagents doesn't mean she can't be ESFj. Also, ESFj's can be quite forceful and controlling when they want to be. Besides, how is "fighting for special needs children" only a Fi quality? Are you saying that people with Fe can't care about special needs children? Her own child is special needs and therefore it makes sense that she would care about them, regardless of what her type is. Furthermore, most politicians will say whatever they think they need to say to get elected. It's kind of hard to judge a politician's type based off the statements they make in their speeches and interviews, since they may or may not be sincere. Also, if she types ESFJ in MBTI then she is most likely ESFj in socionics, since the functions are basically the same for extroverts.
I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, because maybe she isn't ESFj, but ISFj just does not fit in my opinion. She seems like too much of an extrovert to be ISFj.
just watched an interview with that bitch couric. I suppose Fi-ISFj is possible.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I'm going to answer all of the questions in your post by writing, "that's not what I meant," b/c it's true--it's not what I meant... For example, YES--of course Fe-leading ppl can care about special needs children... In fact, my Mom is ESFj (Fe-leading) and her job/passion is to take care of special needs children. (It's what she LOVES to do... It's her life's work.)
What I've noticed re: Palin when she talks about special needs children is how she believes they need to be more thoroughly integrated into society/American public schools b/c American society as a whole doesn't do enough to make them feel accepted, and that's (in her opinion) morally wrong... An Fi viewpoint, IMO.
I'd contrast this with the way my Mom talks about special needs children--whether they've had fun that day, whether their mood has improved in general, if they've learned something or went someplace and enjoyed it, etc, (Fe viewpoint--interpreting immediate emotional reactions.) Now, I recognize these differences in how they talk about this has a lot to do with their very different jobs--still, I'd argue that they look at the same issue from fundamentally different perspectives.
Socionics and MBTI are pretty different--they assess different things... In MBTI, if someone's outgoing, they're an extrovert--in Socionics, there are a hell of a lot more variables, (i.e. the functions.) You see what I'm sayin?
I want you to know that I have not been trying to shoot you down here--it's totally fair to throw question marks on the case I made... I wrote it w/ the best info I have to go on, analyzed it as best I could... And sometimes I am wrong... (I was even wrong about myself for years!)
I tried to put together a case for Palin's type from from what I know about her past/personal life/weltanschauung, etc... Maybe you know something about her I don't... If you do, please write it... It could help us figure out that she is Fe-leading, Si-creative, and loving both Ti and Ne... You know what I mean?
I see you're new... I hope you stay.
lol
Bitch, in a patronizing tone: "now Sarah, can you name a newspaper or magazine you read regularly..?"
Sarah: "ummm... all of em... a lot of em... uuhhhh... eerrr..."
(Couric is horrified. Her jaw has dropped... Watching that was like getting tortured... The un-fun kind of torture.)
Thanks!Okay, well maybe I misunderstood your post. However, i still don't think that's a very good argument, no offense. I think a lot of those differences definitely have to do with their very different jobs. Palin does not work directly with special needs children. Her job as a politician is to assess the status of the whole population of special needs children and decide how they should be cared for in society.
Being outgoing does not equal being extroverted in MBTI. In MBTI, people are extroverts or introverts based on whether they are energized by being alone or by engaging in the outer world. It has nothing to do with being shy, outgoing, etc (although extroverts certainly tend to be more outgoing). And yes, I realize that socionics and MBTI are different, but not as different as people seem to think they are.Socionics and MBTI are pretty different--they assess different things... In MBTI, if someone's outgoing, they're an extrovert--in Socionics, there are a hell of a lot more variables, (i.e. the functions.) You see what I'm sayin?
Well thanks, and again I am not saying you are definitely wrong, but only that I'm not sure your arguments are very strong. In my opinion, people who study socionics can get too caught up in Fe versus Fi and can miss the big picture. It's like missing the forest because you focus on the individual trees. But that's just my opinion, and I'm sure i don't really understand socionics as much as you do.I want you to know that I have not been trying to shoot you down here--it's totally fair to throw question marks on the case I made... I wrote it w/ the best info I have to go on, analyzed it as best I could... And sometimes I am wrong... (I was even wrong about myself for years!)
I tried to put together a case for Palin's type from from what I know about her past/personal life/weltanschauung, etc... Maybe you know something about her I don't... If you do, please write it... It could help us figure out that she is Fe-leading, Si-creative, and loving both Ti and Ne... You know what I mean?
Someone else posted an article about Palin which makes it seem pretty clear to me that she is an extrovert. "She likes being in the limelight, being the centre of attention. What she really craves is popularity, she wants the warmth and love of the public." I don't know any introverts who truly LOVE being the center of attention. I mean introverts might like performing, or showing off their skills, but they generally don't CRAVE popularity or anything, especially not ISFj's. But then again you might disagree since socionics is different from MBTI, however i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I don't really have any substantial arguments for why Palin is ESFj, other than i just think she is based off of how she looks, speaks, and acts. But i realize that is not a very good argument since i can't explain exactly why.
I see you're new... I hope you stay.
Yeah, I seriously hate people who try to underhandedly fuck you. Like, if you want to embarrass me, come out and do it; don't hide behind subtle slights and shit, pussy.
4w3-5w6-8w7
.
Yeah, hmm...I'm beginning to think that a real ISFj would've pwned the fuck out of katie couric. Instead, she seemed like she was trying to be amiable or something, smooth over the atmosphere while still answering the questions.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I agree. A huge percentage of people here in outstate Michigan hunt, and they certainly don't all have Se in the ego block.
And small town beauty pageants usually attract about every decent looking girl in the small town regardless of personality type. It isn't like in a big city.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
This seems like an almost perfect description of Fe-Ej to me with the exception of a few personal statements."Asked what drives his former boss, Persily confesses he cannot be sure. "She likes being in the limelight, being the centre of attention. What she really craves is popularity, she wants the warmth and love of the public." Laura Chase says Palin has an uncanny ability to be all things to all people. "She can walk up to people and quickly have a perception of what they want her to be, and she will instantly be that person."
Persily and Chase, who do not know each other, use the same word to describe Palin: chameleon. Both also use similar language to explain how much she unnerves them.
Chase says: "I admire her, she has boundless energy and great determination. But the idea that she could be the leader of the free world scares the hell out of me."
Actually, I have a close ENFj friend who once told me that she likes to be popular and even strives to be. Not necessarily the most popular but popular enough to influence others. I asked her why and her response was that she liked power over people. While an ESFj has similar characteristics, I don't think an ESFj would want to be popular for the same reasons as an ENFj emphasizes.
The reason I bring this up is that I don’t see many other ways that somebody like her would become governor if not for her power of influence over people coupled with being loved by the public. I recall that she has a pretty high approval rating in Alaska.
I'm confused. What about her exactly makes you think she's not ESI? I don't think being an asshat politician necessarily disqualifies her...
Sarah Palin, ESI? Is this your attempt to substantiate your obvious mistyping of John McCain as SLI, when Palin is quite clearly Fe dominant? Now McCain as ESI, that is feasible. But Palin, no way IMO.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Thank you for that blast of hot air. I was feeling chilly.
Yes, I think McCain is SLI. Yes, I think Palin is (probably) ESI. I don't really see any problems with those typings, but if you'd care to enlighten me, go ahead.
As though I could possibly change your mind...I can't remember one instance in which you've given up your original typings of people after hearing arguments from anyone but Expat or Joy.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Yeah, I'm back to my original typing of her as Fe-ESFj. lol @ the shit about hunting or whatever. bahahaha. And Mccain is Te-ESTj IMO (also a 6 -- loyal to the end lol).
4w3-5w6-8w7
Expat thinks McCain is ESI.
I never said you followed him around like a dog. I said he and the woman who sucks your dick are the only people who can convince you of anything.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Lol, you OK Gilly?
Presumably you are, Diana..? LOL!!! You took one thing I wrote, (i.e. hunting,) focused on it, and absolutely ignored the rest... Cherry-picked little shit while ignoring the big picture--what a "smart" fucking argument you made lol ...
If Palin is ESFj, why don't you give some reasons..? Why can't anyone here give any reasons other than "she seems outgoing"/"values the limelight"..? Wtf... Tons of introverts 'value the limelight.' (Look at all of the INFp actors/singers!)
Why can't you address how Palin is Ti-seeking..? or Values Ne..?
P.S. The sense of 'what is Fe' is so warped here (!!)
Last edited by JuJu; 10-12-2008 at 12:16 AM. Reason: P.S.
i think she's the same kind of annoying moron as discojoe
lol
+1 most definitely. It's completely impossible that she's ESI, even the most extreme Se subtypes do not crave attention in the way she does (and it's even mentioned in the descriptions).
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
lol
Crave attention "in the way she does"? What does that mean?
I'm not trying to be difficult. I just am at a loss as to what reasoning is being used to say she's not ESI.
She's probably your dual.lol...why do
Possibly, but unlikely.
Read the article. There are discrepancies between her and an ESE.
Umm, I know she is not longer active, but this kind of way of typing people will get your typing wrong most of the time. My vote goes to her (Palin) as an ESE. FTR, I have not anlaysis her video in depth, but the impression of her on TV makes her a benchtype ESE, it is one reason why she got so famous in the first place because of her "average Joe" nature, not a type of people that you would often find in politics.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
Reply With Quote
