Stratiyevskaya machine translations

[Warlord]

ok, then go to the wiki page and make separate sections for the separate machine translations. If you want to be even more accurate I can provide you with at least five other translator sites just so you can cover every angle of machine translation possible. The original Russian versions can always be found at www.socionics.org .

This "project" is meant to clean up machine translations, to fix the grammar and sentence structure so that the description is made more readable. If you question someone's competence then provide examples of how their edits on the wiki are "misinforming".

No time / I got better things to do / I don't need to have them written in any other form than they are, I have no difficulty reading them as they are now. The real problem with them, is that the sentences and the russian sayings are multi-interpretative. One of the problems now is that people doing this, don't neccessarily see it.

Why should I have to fix things when other people fuck up anyway?

My contribution is telling you to do it right, or not at all. Both are lot better than doing it wrong.

Though seriously, these are function by function descriptions, so if one of us edits something in such a way that it produces "spin" and makes a Ni ego description look like a Ni PoLR description it will be blatantly obvious and it's on the wiki so you are free to correct us.

It's more dangerous and realistic that for example Ni-suggestive is made to sound like Ni-creative. Or some detail in the description, that some people could hang to. And more difficult to see, unless one has to go through the trouble themself by finding the machine translators, and doing the translations again. And why should everyone have to keep doing that, because you are too upset by criticism?

Am I supposed be more trusting of you, when you are even blind to obvious problems?

Let ppl make judgments about an editor's competence after the more readable versions are posted.

It's unlikely that anyone really will do that afterwards, and see above about the trouble of having to do that. And most people will just accept them as they are. And in the future it can easily be forgotten, how it exactly was that translations came about. And it's used with aura of "russian authority", when something there can be wrongly interpreted. I can just see the potential misconceptions spread like a plague.

[FDG]

I think the machine translations are very easily readable without any amphetaminic additive.

A bottle of whiskey will do the trick.

[misutii]

No time / I got better things to do / I don't need to have them written in any other form than they are, I have no difficulty reading them as they are now. The real problem with them, is that the sentences and the russian sayings are multi-interpretative. One of the problems now is that people doing this, don't neccessarily see it.

Why should I have to fix things when other people fuck up anyway?

My contribution is telling you to do it right, or not at all. Both are lot better than doing it wrong.



It's more dangerous and realistic that for example Ni-suggestive is made to sound like Ni-creative. Or some detail in the description, that some people could hang to. And more difficult to see, unless one has to go through the trouble themself by finding the machine translators, and doing the translations again. And why should everyone have to keep doing that, because you are too upset by criticism?

Am I supposed be more trusting of you, when you are even blind to obvious problems?



It's unlikely that anyone really will do that afterwards, and see above about the trouble of having to do that. And most people will just accept them as they are. And in the future it can easily be forgotten, how it exactly was that translations came about. And it's used with aura of "russian authority", when something there can be wrongly interpreted. I can just see the potential misconceptions spread like a plague.

Many people actually don't read through the machine translations because of how confusing they are. If you like them the way they are then copy/paste them into a word file and keep them like that for yourself.

Last year I worked on all the Filatova machine translations, and they are available on the wikisocion as examples of what effect "I" may have on the strat translations. I am not being "sensitive" to you crtiticizing "me" because you haven't criticized anything I've done. I am being sensitive to you criticizing an idea, because in effect that is what you are doing. I like ideas, particularly this idea. I am going to be cleaning up the strat translations because there are people I know that would read them if I provided them with cleaned up versions. I am also going to add the cleaned up versions to the wikisocion because, from past experience, people whose opinions matter to me have appreciated this effort.

While the status quo might suit you, I personally find it unsatisfying. If you are too lazy to actually do anything about it then you are welcome to sit back, watch, and complain.

edit: and I've already taken the "misinterpretation" thing into consideration, in the one I'm currently working on I've left the confusing parts, which even using 2 translators are difficult to interpret, as is.

[Warlord]

Last year I worked on all the Filatova machine translations, and they are available on the wikisocion as examples of what effect "I" may have on the strat translations. I am not being "sensitive" to you crtiticizing "me" because you haven't criticized anything I've done. I am being sensitive to you criticizing an idea, because in effect that is what you are doing. I like ideas, particularly this idea. I am going to be cleaning up the strat translations because there are people I know that would read them if I provided them with cleaned up versions. I am also going to add the cleaned up versions to the wikisocion because, from past experience, people whose opinions matter to me have appreciated this effort.

While the status quo might suit you, I personally find it unsatisfying.

So it's all about you then, and what you happen to like? The purpose of the wikisocion is something entirely different, than give you the feeling of being appriciated.

Nobody should like a bad idea, just because it's an idea.

[misutii]

So it's all about you then, and what you happen to like? The purpose of the wikisocion is something entirely different, than give you the feeling of being appriciated.

Nobody should like a bad idea, just because it's an idea.

If you'd be so kind as to create the separate categories at the wikisocion, one for the machine translation and one for the cleaned up version, I will make sure the proper copies find their way in each. (I am only asking you too because every time I try to make a new page on the wiki socion I mess it up and it takes me like an hour, probably has to do with my Te-PoLR

I still don't understand why you are so worried that I am going to misinform people. Consider this, people that learn about socionics like to get a feel for it by reading type descriptions. When a person decides to look for a type description they tend to look for one conveniently available to them, and one written in clear language (after all we must assume that people have lives and things to do besides just spending all day looking for the best descriptions. Although you and I can both read the Strat machine translations just fine, it is only because we have spent enough time reading about socionics as to learn the "vocabulary". Now you evidently care enough about the Strat descriptions to defend their integrity. So consider that someone new to socionics, if a clean version of the Strat translation is not available, is going to instead choose to read an inferior description, simply because it's written in proper english. I'm sure if you type "socionics type descriptions" in google, on the first few pages you'll find descriptions that are "misinforming". Wouldn't you prefer that the Strat descriptions reach more people?

Also regarding "misinformation", consider that anyone that reads only one type description and takes it as a complete guide to any one type is really... well... not going to learn socionics properly. There's nothing either of us can do about it. But other people, upon reading one description will be intrigued and want to read more. By having clean versions of the Strat descriptions we are merely making more quality litterature immediately available to them.

[aestrivex]

i don't see any kind of problem with misutii's translations. the original translations are freely available for anyone who would like to muddle with them. for everyone else, i think misutii is making very valuable and helpful contributions by freely volunteering his time to work on these translations (to the extent that the descriptions are not terrible anyway -- in which case there is certainly no harm done -- but i think the stratiyevskaya ones are fairly decent at any rate.)

[Joy]

Warlord, you said yourself that you aren't interested enough in these descriptions to contribute your time or efforts, so quit bitching.