Gamma recommended reading books/authors

[Korpsy Knievel]

Obviously actual gammas and gamma authors don't exist outside of lists of names.

[Absurd]

I see some of them were typed differently but always end up in Gamma. Interesting.

[d1ffe7]

I may have posted this before but I think the book Hannibal is LIE/ESI duality

[Darkworker]

Pavel Tsatsouline books if you are into working out
(ENTj)

[mfckr]

.

[Darkworker]

I read him a bit before (that's how I got into kettlebells). He's Ti-ESTp imo.

No way man. I am certain he's ENTj.
Have you watched some of his videos?
I bet if you watch one of his videos you are going to change your mind.
Watch this short video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL30WSaFJu8
All you see here is Te leadership. Also he has a vision, deep knowledge of his thing (Ni).

[Gilly]

Do you think he is ESI?

ILI

[Saberstorm]

ILI

I never saw that. It could be true.

[squark]

ILI

Don't want to derail this, so do you have reasons why somewhere? I really don't see it

@InvisibleJim No on rand, but there's other threads on that.

[Gilly]

people keep bringing up type representatives ahh i was kinda hoping for contemporary stuff but i wasn't going to put that limitation down so i guess that's the consequence.

How about Gabriel Garcia Marquez? Books positively SEEP Ni, probably ILI.

[ashlesha]

How about Gabriel Garcia Marquez? Books positively SEEP Ni, probably ILI.

i just bought love in the time of cholera and it has been next on my list to read.

[Gilly]

i just bought love in the time of cholera and it has been next on my list to read.

I've only read Tale of a Death Foretold but it was damn good. A little confusing but very good.

[Scapegrace]

I think Mary Shelley was ILI. I'm judging by a biography I'm reading at her moment. Not her fiction, which I haven't read in quite some time.

CS Lewis most certainly was not. Have you ever even read him? He's terribly sentimental. Even the philosophy.

Sorry for not adding anyone more contemporary, Lungs. I tend to only read fiction by dead folk.

[nanashi]

I think Mary Shelley was ILI. I'm judging by a biography I'm reading at her moment. Not her fiction, which I haven't read in quite some time.

CS Lewis most certainly was not. Have you ever even read him? He's terribly sentimental. Even the philosophy.

Sorry for not adding anyone more contemporary, Lungs. I tend to only read fiction by dead folk.

My ILI friend likes Shelley a lot. . . I think Shelley's Frankenstein had more Fi, and thus more likely Gamma than Beta values than the work of other plausible Gammas brought up here. She certainly had beautiful and complex additions to the philosophical work of the feminist movement of her time.

[alklonth]

Tadeusz Rozewicz - ESI

[Gilly]

Don't want to derail this, so do you have reasons why somewhere? I really don't see it

@InvisibleJim No on rand, but there's other threads on that.

Hes very imaginitive but also a bit dry in his presentation. He reminds me of my IEI English professor from high school only a bit more harsh, dry, doesn't have the same softness and emotional malleability. His examination of Christian morality strikes me as Gamma Ni and Fi in nature, he is mostly concerned with the message behind Christianity and the positive moral values it preaches en gestalt, while being somewhat dismissive of the more specific ethical dilemmas its precepts presents.

[Korpsy Knievel]

No.

[ashlesha]

oh

[JWC3]

oh

Fwiw, I would say Ashton is actually incredibly good at what he does.

[ashlesha]

dude i just said "maybe its not all about that" and you responded with "well, here's some more stuff about that."

i wasn't even doing some rushing to defend ashton thing like you apparently see me doing because of your weird type reality filter thingy.

[JWC3]

dude i just said "maybe its not all about that" and you responded with "well, here's some more stuff about that."

i wasn't even doing some rushing to defend ashton thing like you apparently see me doing because of your weird type reality filter thingy.

You're very upset with me recently.

[Scapegrace]

What JWC is attempting to tell us -- rather inelegantly -- is that he is a dickhead.

[JWC3]

What JWC is attempting to tell us -- rather inelegantly -- is that he is a dickhead.

;-)

 

[mfckr]

.

[JWC3]

Well, he is good buddies with Niffweed.

What can I say; trill recognizes trill.

[Absurd]

JWC3, you need help in defending classical socionics?

[JWC3]

JWC3, you need help in defending classical socionics?

Nah, and you can call it niffweedionics for all I care. He and I share a perspective on this matter and our perspective is generally strictly adherent to quadra values beyond the entire rest of socionics. If Gulenko wants to call what he's doing socionics, then he can have the name. Perhaps calling it primarily some sort of quadra theory would be less derisive terminology. However if you want to be derisive towards this perspective and give it a silly name, feel free. I'm a big boy; I'll be fine. I doubt niff wouldn't be either.

Hell it could be kinda fun; niffweedionics. That does have a bit of a ring to it, doesn't it.

EDIT: I vividly understand how my perspective on this matter differs from what is colloquially refereed to as socionics on this forum and I'm completely fine admitting that it does. And explaining that difference if someone asks.

[Absurd]

I wasn't serious, not taking up on anything that's not my own.

[JWC3]

I wasn't serious, not taking up on anything that's not my own.

Oh I know, you're never serious. It's part of your charm. I'm simply not in a gaming mood.

[Absurd]

Oh I know, you're never serious. It's part of your charm. I'm simply not in a gaming mood.

Before this gets derailed any further and I'm going to have to get serious leaving scorched Earth behind me, I see no need in defending nor supporting anything that doesn't actually function the way it is meant to function, that is, for whomever "it" functions and one get some kind of a benefit out of it, be it a practical one in a sense of established trade agreement between two individuals and more, in real life/on here, well then - it's great. You call it quadra values, and looks like niffweed, does as well, so I see no reason in blabbing about who practises what, for it boils down to one and the same thing - intertype relations, which one doesn't have to acknowledge at all, you can strip Socionics out of every bit of clothing but you/people on here, are still going to talk about it. So ye, joke is on you, Kevin Hart.

I have no idea what the fuss is about in the first place and hah at "gaming mood."

[ashlesha]

Any more gamma sf authors?

Hannah arendt,allegedly. (haven't read her yet)

[Korpsy Knievel]

Any more gamma sf authors?

Hannah arendt,allegedly. (haven't read her yet)

From her attacks on rationalists in "Life of the Mind" and from the calls to social action I've read in snippets of her political works, Arendt strikes me as SEE as fuck. I also think Gabriel Garcia Marquez is a probable SEE, even though for some reason he's popularly mistyped (and parroted) as ILI. Compared with Stanislaw Lem, whose thoughts share enough common themes with my own that I'm comfortable with him as an identical, Marquez weaves his writing from the stuff of love and loss, expectations, their achievements, and disappointments. His focus is personal relationships and social upheavals, of lives lived and under what conditions, and other direct and involved aspects of the human experience. So even if he's showing an streak as Gilly maintains, what I see is more prominently , especially when compared with Lem, who treats human experiences as being heavily mediated by mental processes and abstractions. Contrast and compare:

Marquez:

Lost in the solitude of his immense power, he began to lose direction. He was bothered by the people who cheered him in neighboring villages, and he imagined that they were the same cheers they gave the enemy. Everywhere he met adolescents who looked at him with his own eyes, who spoke to him with his own voice, who greeted him with the same mistrust with which he greeted them, and who said they were his sons. He felt scattered about, multiplied, and more solitary than ever. He was convinced that his own officers were lying to him. He fought with the Duke of Marlborough. "The best friend a person has," he would say at that time, "is one who has just died."

Lem:

The number of one's possible fantasies is inversely proportional to the amount of one's liquid assets. For him who has everything dreams are no longer possible.

---

Marquez:

The most prosperous countries have succeeded in accumulating powers of destruction such as to annihilate, a hundred times over, not only all the human beings that have existed to this day, but also the totality of all living beings that have ever drawn breath on this planet of misfortune.

On a day like today, my master William Faulkner said, "I decline to accept the end of man." I would fall unworthy of standing in this place that was his, if I were not fully aware that the colossal tragedy he refused to recognize thirty-two years ago is now, for the first time since the beginning of humanity, nothing more than a simple scientific possiblity. Faced with this awesome reality that must have seemed a mere utopia through all of human time, we, the inventors of tales, who will believe anything, feel entitled to believe that it is not yet too late to engage in the creation of the opposite utopia. A new and sweeping utopia of life, where no one will be able to decide for others how they die, where love will prove true and happiness be possible, and where the races condemned to one hundred years of solitude will have, at last and forever, a second opportunity on earth.

Note how the above is prescriptive...

Lem:

The twentieth century had dispensed with the formal declaration of war and introduced the fifth column, sabotage, cold war, and war by proxy, but that was only the begining. Summit meetings for disarmament pursued mutual understanding and a balance of power but were also held to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the enemy. The world of the war-or-peace alternative became a world in which war was peace and peace war.

...while this is descriptive.

---

Marquez:

My agent put [rights to film Hundred years of Solitude] up for one million dollars to discourage offers and as they approximated that offer she raised it to around three million. But I have no interest in a film, and as long as I can prevent it from happening, it won’t. I prefer that it remain a private relationship between the reader and the book.

Lem:

I have fundamental reservations to this [filmed] adaptation [of Solaris]. First of all I would have liked to see the planet Solaris which the director unfortunately denied me as the film was to be a cinematically subdued work. And secondly — as I told Tarkovsky during one of our quarrels — he didn't make Solaris at all, he made Crime and Punishment. What we get in the film is only how this abominable Kelvin has driven poor Harey to suicide and then he has pangs of conscience which are amplified by her appearance; a strange and incomprehensible appearance.

The whole sphere of cognitive and epistemological considerations was extremely important in my book and it was tightly coupled to the solaristic literature and to the essence of solaristics as such. Unfortunately, the film has been robbed of those qualities rather thoroughly.

My Kelvin decides to stay on the planet without any hope whatsoever while Tarkovsky created an image where some kind of an island appears, and on that island a hut. And when I hear about the hut and the island I'm beside myself with irritation... This is just some emotional sauce into which Tarkovsky has submerged his heroes, not to mention that he has completely amputated the scientific landscape and in its place introduced so much of the weirdness I cannot stand.

---

Marquez:

One minute of reconciliation is worth more than a whole life of friendship.

Lem:

I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.

---

Two good interviews for anyone curious for more:

http://www.theparisreview.org/interv...garcia-marquez
http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/federman29.htm

And more quotes:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Gabriel...a_M%C3%A1rquez
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem

[Scapegrace]

Love me some Hannah.

[Korpsy Knievel]

charles bukowski

Here's a good interview with Bukowski, who I've got no problem seeing as a butt-pinching, crusty, self-afflicting SEE looking for a good time, and someone to assure him that the mess it creates is all worthwhile. http://bukowski.net/poems/int-first.php

franz kafka <3

Having read everything by Kafka except Amerika it's easy for me to accept him as ILI, but at times the powerless resignation and self-disgust in his brand of existential horror seems more 4w5 than 5w4, i.e. likelier to be IEI. I find this one a tough call so if you've got further insights to share I'd be interested in reading them.

[ashlesha]

Here's a good interview with Bukowski, who I've got no problem seeing as a butt-pinching, crusty, self-inflicting SEE looking for a good time, and someone to assure him that the mess it creates is all worthwhile. http://bukowski.net/poems/int-first.php

[FDG]

Having read everything by Kafka except Amerika it's easy for me to accept him as ILI, but at times the powerless resignation and self-disgust in his brand of existential horror seems more 4w5 than 5w4, i.e. likelier to be IEI. I find this one a tough call so if you've got further insights to share I'd be interested in reading them.

Something that may be useful (or not): I find Kafka's thinking to be analoguous to my own, meaning, that his sometimes convoluted and dystopian imagery is similar to how I tend to perceive the world on a mediated level. It may mean that we share "cognitive style", if that concept bears any kind of usefulness. Anyway, if he were to be IEI, he would be one of the extreme Ni variety.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Something that may be useful (or not): I find Kafka's thinking to be analoguous to my own, meaning, that his sometimes convoluted and dystopian imagery is similar to how I tend to perceive the world on a mediated level. It may mean that we share "cognitive style", if that concept bears any kind of usefulness. Anyway, if he were to be IEI, he would be one of the extreme Ni variety.

Given my propensity for (resonance with) similar thematic elements in Kafka's written though,t I suggest the following: assuming that you and I are both properly typed, Ni plays a stronger role than cognitive style does in shaping phenomenal representations of the dystopic form.

Given the aforementioned, and insofar as it is difficult to see things clearly when they're held at a nose-length, I do think examination of said Czech writer vis-a-vis V-S and D-A cognitive styles will be decisive in establishing correct quadra assignment.

[ashlesha]

ive started reading love in the time of cholera by gabriel garcia marquez and my opinion so far is that i think SEE is a good typing.

[nanashi]

ive started reading love in the time of cholera by gabriel garcia marquez and my opinion so far is that i think SEE is a good typing.

I have all sorts of criticism for his work, too Now i sad.

[ashlesha]

Why do I always find his work full of one-sided observations and socially irresponsible? I want someone who likes his work to show me something I can like about it.

i'm not sure what you mean by one-sided observations. how many sides should a person present in poetry?
socially irresponsible - yeah. i'm inclined to think its sort of necessary to dismiss social convention for most good art, though

i really, really love a lot of his writing. but recently socializing with my old creepy SLE uncle i was so immediately reminded of bukowski in terms of similarites in physical appearance and general attitude and now i can't help but have a diminished appreciation lol. i don't think he's somebody i would have actually wanted to know. (oh, that and the video korp posted where he kicked his [ex]lover omg) but his writing still resonates. i don't know enough about you and your tastes to be able to know what you would like in it. i like that its raw and unpretentious and accessible and that he can pluck emotional chords pretty hard while coming across real and conversational.

I have all sorts of criticism for his work, too Now i sad.

i've only reached about the 100th page in the book so i haven't formed a strong opinion yet. i keep waiting for the excitement to pick up a little more, idk. it has its moments.