Differences between LSI-ISTj and SLE-ESTp

[silverchris9]

Hmm... can an LSI have poor impulse control?

Totally. But because of the introverted/extroverted thing, an SLE is more likely to naturally want to respond to his environment without going through an interior filter, whereas an LSI is more likely to naturally want to check his internal filter before responding to his environment. The actual resultant impulse control has to do with many factors beside type, and if you plotted impulse control against type, there would be plenty of LSIs with worse impulse control than plenty of SLEs.

[matilda]

Ne PoLR vs Fi PoLR maybe?

[Ave]

On a side note, SLEs seem to be less empathetic than LSIs when joking around. Theyll just make a rude remark and then not feel sorry for it whereas LSI might do then same thing then be halfway apologetic about it.

[Beautiful sky]

On a side note, SLEs seem to be less empathetic than LSIs when joking around. Theyll just make a rude remark and then not feel sorry for it whereas LSI might do then same thing then be halfway apologetic about it.

The SLE that I have known can be very frankly honest and so much so that they won't care about how other's see that and won't appologize for it. They are severe but just. While LSI laws and order as pertaining to catagorization. LSI like for people to do things that are in their place to do and nothing more.

[redbaron]

strict rule-abiders are a bit annoying. LIIs can be this way too.

[Airman]

Since both are Beta STs, I wonder what would be the main differences between these two types (other than what I could read at wikisocion, socionics.com and other sites). And if it´s easy to tell one from the other. How would they be different in behaviour.

[Airman]

SLEs - more guarded when it comes to personal relationships (Fi PoLR)
LSIs - more guarded when it comes to random relationships (weak Fe)

SLEs - can chat up anyone, anywhere - if they want to (Fe HA)
LSIs - want to be helped into a conversation (Fe DS)

And a lot more, but I'm too drunk to care to think about other differences right now.

That´s already something. Thank you Ananke.

[redbaron]

And a lot more, but I'm too drunk to care to think about other differences right now.

that sounds good, let me join you.

[redbaron]

LSI: more disciplined, linear approach to life.
SLE: their actions appear more random. For example, they don't keep a regular schedule if they can help it. Sometimes up early, sometimes sleep in. Sometimes drive, sometimes take the bus.

[Airman]

Redbaron nice to see you around

is there no sociable LSI then?

the LSIs I know are not very talkative, I am more talkative than them, but I´m not so open to people like a cousin I have who I´m almost sure is SLE. this cousin has powerful friends everywhere. He can´t get arrested, I´d bet, because he´d know the Police Chief or something like that. I can´t make as many friends and I think this kind of opportunistic approach (making friends with powerful and rich people only) is a sign of lack of moral judgment, which I have a lot. So if I am beta ST, I´m LSI definitely. I was thinking about that. I really do have some things in common with my uncle and the psych doc who are LSIs, we kind of get along well, though I´m more hot-tempered. But one thing I have seen in LSIs , maybe wrong, is that they can be of two 'types', the most common is usually very cool and calm (probably healthy ones) the others are all the time looking pissed-off and irritated and very short-tempered, with periods where they cool down. Am I wrong with this?

[Beautiful sky]

Ananke,
That was great.

[matilda]

a cousin I have who I´m almost sure is SLE. this cousin has powerful friends everywhere. He can´t get arrested, I´d bet, because he´d know the Police Chief or something like that. I can´t make as many friends and I think this kind of opportunistic approach (making friends with powerful and rich people only) is a sign of lack of moral judgment, which I have a lot.

SEE?

But one thing I have seen in LSIs , maybe wrong, is that they can be of two 'types', the most common is usually very cool and calm (probably healthy ones) the others are all the time looking pissed-off and irritated and very short-tempered, with periods where they cool down. Am I wrong with this?

SLE?

[redbaron]

Redbaron nice to see you around

is there no sociable LSI then?

the LSIs I know are not very talkative, I am more talkative than them, but I´m not so open to people like a cousin I have who I´m almost sure is SLE. this cousin has powerful friends everywhere. He can´t get arrested, I´d bet, because he´d know the Police Chief or something like that. I can´t make as many friends and I think this kind of opportunistic approach (making friends with powerful and rich people only) is a sign of lack of moral judgment, which I have a lot. So if I am beta ST, I´m LSI definitely. I was thinking about that. I really do have some things in common with my uncle and the psych doc who are LSIs, we kind of get along well, though I´m more hot-tempered. But one thing I have seen in LSIs , maybe wrong, is that they can be of two 'types', the most common is usually very cool and calm (probably healthy ones) the others are all the time looking pissed-off and irritated and very short-tempered, with periods where they cool down. Am I wrong with this?

I know a pretty sociable LSI. He creates his own groups/clubs and talks a lot but only on the topics that interest him and with people he really likes. There's not too much small talk. Another one I know keeps more to himself. LSI is maybe more opinionated than SLE overall. But that could just be these individuals. LSI enjoys a good emotional fight or argument over principles more than SLE I think. SLE wraps it up with one phrase or word. LSI will argue back and forth and enjoys more intense emotions. They are both always right. SLE may concede the battle to win the war--his eye is on the larger prize. LSI fights every point. (I don't actually know if that's true, but that's how they come across to me)

[tcaudilllg]

SLEs focus on coherence of purpose and vision, while LSIs focus on assembling parts into wholes.

[Airman]

I know a pretty sociable LSI. He creates his own groups/clubs and talks a lot but only on the topics that interest him and with people he really likes. There's not too much small talk. Another one I know keeps more to himself. LSI is maybe more opinionated than SLE overall. But that could just be these individuals. LSI enjoys a good emotional fight or argument over principles more than SLE I think. SLE wraps it up with one phrase or word. LSI will argue back and forth and enjoys more intense emotions. They are both always right. SLE may concede the battle to win the war--his eye is on the larger prize. LSI fights every point. (I don't actually know if that's true, but that's how they come across to me)

Interesting... if what you said is socionical fact, I may be LSI then.

[Azeroffs]

SLE have a tendency to do what they want when they want. They want what they want, and they tend to want it now. They tend to have an aura of control over their environment navigating it with easy and confidence. They are challenge seekers and often have a drive to prove themselves, but they can lack patience and the long-term consideration required to accomplish some challenges. They have a tendency to step on toes when entranced into their striving and mobilized nature. While not necessarily social, they are very friendly and often politically incorrect. They tend to move hastily and may be a bit anxious, but appear unphased by pressure and are quick thinkers.

LSIs are very controlled, an may come off a bit stiff. Confident and self-assured, they often have a hard time admitting they're wrong. Often come off as no-nonsense but are able to really loosen up around friends. Almost always composed and unshakable. Often ambitious and career-minded. Usually organized and sometimes perfectionistic. More cautious and thought out than the SLE, but still prone to haste. They are often characterized by being responsible, stable and dependable.

[discojoe]

The mind of an LSI is like a chessboard, with rules and pieces, but the pieces are only moved though the LSI's will, their Se. The Se also keeps the pieces in line, preventing them from breaking the rules of the LSI's psychic Ti manual and making sure they move when they are supposed to.

An SLE's mind is like a flood that carries them toward their destination. To ride the waters more efficiently, they hop aboard boats they comes across and use their inner Ti manual to figure out how to operate them, and they ditch the boat as soon as another, better one comes along that can get them where they're going faster.

[Krig the Viking]

LSI is like a kid building a snow fort. Snow is systematically piled according to the LSI's plan, designed to withstand any Se assault.

SLE is like a kid throwing snowballs at things he wants to knock down.

[DividedsGhost]

The mind of an LSI is like a cheese-board, with rules, cheeses, and crackers. But the cheeses stay away from the crackers until the LSI deems what cheeses should go with what crackers in Ti-organized ways and in Ti-fashioned time-codes. If the cheeses disobey, LSI uses Ti to get the other cheeses to put them in line if not easily done himself/herself.

The mind of an SLE is like a kid with a major sweet tooth and a baseball bat in a candy store. The primal is stimulating fun and all you have to do is take what you want and damn those that say otherwise.

[Ezra]

The mind of an LSI is like a chessboard, with rules and pieces, but the pieces are only moved though the LSI's will, their Se. The Se also keeps the pieces in line, preventing them from breaking the rules of the LSI's psychic Ti manual and making sure they move when they are supposed to.

An SLE's mind is like a flood that carries them toward their destination. To ride the waters more efficiently, they hop aboard boats they comes across and use their inner Ti manual to figure out how to operate them, and they ditch the boat as soon as another, better one comes along that can get them where they're going faster.

That's a cool metaphor. I always saw Ti as a vehicle for the Se in the SLE, and vice versa in the LSI. So in that respect, you've got a mini Saddam riding in a pimp mobile, and Zhukov riding in a Ti mobile, whatever the fuck that is.

[squark]

My mind is like an evolving puzzle. There are islands of pieces I have fit together, some small, and some quite large. Everything new that I take in, is fit in its own area, either with other pieces that it belongs with, or beginning a new island to work together later. When islands overlap and fight for space, the puzzle has to be reworked to tie them together in a way that makes sense. The goal is one large puzzle, a complete picture, with all pieces in their proper places, but it's a never-ending project, with each new piece collected changing the final picture. That picture will never be finished.

I don't think in rules. I think in connections, how things FIT together to make sense. Arrangements. How can this be arranged with that to make something I can understand. It's a structure. An interconnected structure. I do not think in stacks and rules.

[discojoe]

Ezra, Discojoe. I don't think any of you are betas. OK, maybe DJ, cause he is so strange he's untypeable.

Anyway neither of you are typical Se/Ti so hopefully nobody believes what you write about beta STs.

What I wrote is good. I'm simply sharing it so people can learn from my high intelligence. It doesn't matter what type you think I am.

[1981slater]

LSI are conformist, SLEs are ambitious

[discojoe]

LSI are conformist, SLEs are ambitious

LSIs can be very ambitious, but it's in a slower, safer, more deliberate, more energy conserving way. They're conformists in the sense that they usually submit to some Ti system of thought, but they are ambitious in that they use Se to force others to, as well. Lawls.

[Blaze]

The mind of an LSI is like a chessboard, with rules and pieces, but the pieces are only moved though the LSI's will, their Se. The Se also keeps the pieces in line, preventing them from breaking the rules of the LSI's psychic Ti manual and making sure they move when they are supposed to.

An SLE's mind is like a flood that carries them toward their destination. To ride the waters more efficiently, they hop aboard boats they comes across and use their inner Ti manual to figure out how to operate them, and they ditch the boat as soon as another, better one comes along that can get them where they're going faster.

cool. a similar metaphor could be written about LII and ILE. the Ti in the irrational is kind of like on the fly practical application or something.

[Ezra]

Anyway neither of you are typical Se/Ti so hopefully nobody believes what you write about beta STs.

You're an idiot. I don't even know what system of socionics you subscribe to, but it sure as shit isn't classical.

LSIs can be very ambitious, but it's in a slower, safer, more deliberate, more energy conserving way. They're conformists in the sense that they usually submit to some Ti system of thought, but they are ambitious in that they use Se to force others to, as well. Lawls.

Yeah, like Saddam Hussein, and probably Stalin too. Slow rise to power, accumulates shit loads of power.

The metaphors aren't bad, really. "Ananke" is just antsy.

And a fuck

Well actually Ezra's suck.

They were actually just a joke lol

[discojoe]

Yeah, like Saddam Hussein, and probably Stalin too. Slow rise to power, accumulates shit loads of power.

And Putin.

[Ezra]

And Putin.

Yeah, Putin. Scary motherfucker. Those Ruskies just can't keep their hands off the power. Is it really true Khruschev or Gorbachev were SEIs!?

[MatthewZ]

Yeah, Putin. Scary motherfucker. Those Ruskies just can't keep their hands off the power. Is it really true Khruschev or Gorbachev were SEIs!?

It's the first rule of VI that all thoroughly "round" men are SEIs.

[redbaron]

In your real world experience, how do they behave differently? There was a good thread on this awhile ago, but I can't find it (I know, I'm lazy). How do they feel in their interactions and in the way they approach people? How does their rationality and irrationality come out?

I'm curious because I don't think I know many LSIs. I thought I knew a female but I'm pretty sure she's ESI. And I think I know one male but I don't see him much (he lives out of town).

[Leader]

Irrationality in SLE...

Me for example, my emotions and decisions are sometimes too easily influenced by outside forces. In terms of mood one minute something will happen to me that will make me incredibly annoyed and serious, and literally the next minute something else can happen that will make me over the top happy...its constantly up and down . Not steady at all like how a rational would be.

This is just an example I was thinking of while I was work today...since im interacting with different things and people at a fast pace. I had coworker today say it was like im on drugs, because every time they would see me, my energy would be very high or very low (which is do to things in my immediate environment affecting me). I keep everything inside, they cant read me so nobody knows what im thinking or whats happening to me, so I guess it appears completely random to everyone else.

From a different perspective, in others words, it just basically means I easily and quite rapidly adapt to my environment.

[Beautiful sky]

LSI produce logical structures.

SLE active experience seekers, following experience.

[Leader]

....How you go from LSI to LSE so quickly Martisa lol. I understand where you're coming from, but I have to make something clear.

"LSE is not someone who will agree with going along with an asinine or ineffective system because “that's just the way the world works”. Their rules also don't usually pertain to or govern the actions of others as much as they do their own actions; LSE are likely to let others pick choices for themselves. LSE don't try to implement systems of behavior for other people."

This is wrong. They aren't followers per say, but they do conform to everything around them. Both Te and Ti are both similar and biased in their own way. With LSE (Te) and SLE (Ti), they do what they think is the correct way of doing things, but LSE doesn't have Se...they are blinded by the "facts" they see, they can't see things for what they are. On top of that they don't use Ti in such a way that filters and interprets the information correctly. This is why SLE is called the most sober realistic psycho type, because Se plainly sees things how they are and Ti interprets that information as best as it can into neat logical categories that make sense...usually.

1. Not as emotionally expressive. I agree, but one thing. Me, I show as many emotions as LSE that I show in public. What I do have is high emotionality (values Fe), they go to extremes. You either get very low, in the middle, or very high. LSE is more dry with their emotions, but they show more. Which has to do with #2, they don't keep everything inside (values Fi).

I wouldn't say I easily adapt to the environment on a whim all the time, its sometimes very hard to get me angry and when I do it takes me too long to get out of that state of mind. What im saying is that my moods are highly unpredictable. Sometimes they change fast, sometimes they are even more dry that rationals.

Sorry redbaron for highjackign your thread.

[Beautiful sky]

.

Sorry redbaron for highjackign your thread.

On an off topic. I've noticed Beta types behaving in such courteous/respectful/proper/polite manner towards each other; ask yourself why everyone in your quadra does this.

Then ask yourself why Delta doesn't care about doing this.

I think we should stop doing the back and forth about feelings and emotions because Jung himself said clearly that these things can not be effectively pulled, separated, and categorized. So we can not say for certain which feelings or emotions belong to one or the other.

I think it's really easy;

one accumulates a whole bunch of facts and information
the other strives to experience or broaden experiences

I agree that your moods can change fast; one of the abilities of an IEI is that they are emotional multi-taskers so they can change moods fast too;

An LSI needs a lot more information to decide and act because, for example if you say that Socionics is not correct they need to know to what you're comparing that to; they need to be able to build both sides of the equation, like a chart; one side says correct one side says not correct and they need to gather a lot of information on both sides so that they can make this logical structure and when they do, they can express to you what the relevance of each side is and eliminate the information that is the same on both sides of the equation, and at the same time express what is important within each one that makes that side different and unique from the other.

Since Ti is not the SLE's primary function, they can act without a lot of information and conclusion about that logical structure which I discuss about the LSI; they can essentially be moved by sensory pleasure and quite frankly, they don't care too much about this whole category thing; it serves to understand something that is very serious and in need of a closer look.

If one is a primary function than that is what someone does more of.

[Beautiful sky]

Sorry redbaron for highjackign your thread.

This has to do with the collective feeling/atmosphere.

Polite is easy because it doesn't betray a lot of emotion; that's important because you are close to the vest with your emotions; when you're being polite you're trying not to tell them about your emotions but trying not to rock the boat. This is not honest because you're not sharing your real feelings, but are going along with external etiquette (Fe) and trying to maintain an atmosphere; that's not being polite. You are being polite because if someone wants to talk you can let them talk; you know this is a forum and anyone can talk, but you won't admit it.

Delta prefers honesty to being polite; By us not apologizing we are being honest because we feel that we don't have anything to apologize for even thought this is Redbaron's thread; we feel that we don't have to be overly polite and apologetic because it's a forum, anyone can talk; Delta values individual feelings above the Fe.

LSE having Fe Role are more inclined to behave like a Beta because they are conscious of what people think of them, making them seem as though they are SLE when they really are not. They are not concerned about betraying their emotions but are more worried about what people think of them; they are essentially, insecure.

It's a good time to through this out as an observation, even tough it's off topic.

[redbaron]

....How you go from LSI to LSE so quickly Martisa lol. I understand where you're coming from, but I have to make something clear.

"LSE is not someone who will agree with going along with an asinine or ineffective system because “that's just the way the world works”. Their rules also don't usually pertain to or govern the actions of others as much as they do their own actions; LSE are likely to let others pick choices for themselves. LSE don't try to implement systems of behavior for other people."

This is wrong. They aren't followers per say, but they do conform to everything around them. Both Te and Ti are both similar and biased in their own way. With LSE (Te) and SLE (Ti), they do what they think is the correct way of doing things, but LSE doesn't have Se...they are blinded by the "facts" they see, they can't see things for what they are. On top of that they don't use Ti in such a way that filters and interprets the information correctly. This is why SLE is called the most sober realistic psycho type, because Se plainly sees things how they are and Ti interprets that information as best as it can into neat logical categories that make sense...usually.

1. Not as emotionally expressive. I agree, but one thing. Me, I show as many emotions as LSE that I show in public. What I do have is high emotionality (values Fe), they go to extremes. You either get very low, in the middle, or very high. LSE is more dry with their emotions, but they show more. Which has to do with #2, they don't keep everything inside (values Fi).

I wouldn't say I easily adapt to the environment on a whim all the time, its sometimes very hard to get me angry and when I do it takes me too long to get out of that state of mind. What im saying is that my moods are highly unpredictable. Sometimes they change fast, sometimes they are even more dry that rationals.

Sorry redbaron for highjackign your thread.

No, this is great! Thank you!

[redbaron]

This has to do with the collective feeling/atmosphere.

Polite is easy because it doesn't betray a lot of emotion; that's important because you are close to the vest with your emotions; when you're being polite you're trying not to tell them about your emotions but trying not to rock the boat. This is not honest because you're not sharing your real feelings, but are going along with external etiquette (Fe) and trying to maintain an atmosphere; that's not being polite. You are being polite because if someone wants to talk you can let them talk; you know this is a forum and anyone can talk, but you won't admit it.

Delta prefers honesty to being polite; By us not apologizing we are being honest because we feel that we don't have anything to apologize for even thought this is Redbaron's thread; we feel that we don't have to be overly polite and apologetic because it's a forum, anyone can talk; Delta values individual feelings above the Fe.

LSE having Fe Role are more inclined to behave like a Beta because they are conscious of what people think of them, making them seem as though they are SLE when they really are not. They are not concerned about betraying their emotions but are more worried about what people think of them; they are essentially, insecure.

It's a good time to through this out as an observation, even tough it's off topic.

I don't know about that.

[Beautiful sky]

Agee is right, LSE doesn't interpret info, but takes it in or gets it and says this is what it mean; whereas and LSI will say "this is what I think it means." The "I" is emphasized because it's a subjective function not an objective one. But, to say "this is what it means" an LSE like an ESE needs to have a store house of other objective things or experience based on personal trial and error to judge that meaning against. LSE don't say "this is what I think it is" because they choose to proceeds from a place of certainty rather than guessing.

[redbaron]

LSE having Fe Role are more inclined to behave like a Beta because they are conscious of what people think of them, making them seem as though they are SLE when they really are not. They are not concerned about betraying their emotions but are more worried about what people think of them; they are essentially, insecure.

yes, maybe. interesting.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't know about that.

Not the general whether someone's honest or not. I think we can admit that at this point everyone is dishonest or honest to a degree; I was saying that they are putting something ahead of honesty which is politeness to preserve a collective emotional atmosphere.