Where the Myth of "Fake Fe" Came From

[Ezra]

Fe deals with the emotional atmosphere. Then this shitty misconception about how Fe ego types propel fake emotions came along.

Fe types don't deal with fake emotions. What they deal with is real emotions. Why they're referred to as "fake" by non-Fe valuing quadras is because to the Fe devaluers, even attempting to preserve the "emotional atmosphere" is a superficial thing to do. It's not that the emotion itself is fake, but that what is going on can be perceived as being something which is entirely unnecessary. And to a Fe devaluer - a Gamma, for example - of course it's fake, because they don't like upholding emotional atmosphere for the sake of harmony in said atmosphere.

[Ms. Kensington]

well i think many times an Fe person is perceived as fake because the observer thinks that the Fe is meant to be Fi, which would mostly not be the case and thus "false" as a statement of Fi. and on the other side, Fe valuers perceive an Fi person's Fe as fake because they know that their Fe is not "true" Fe but their Fe can be used to "cover up" their Fi. They are measuring different things, and both types of Fx-ers can behave similarly but with different focii.

[Wittmont]

Heh yes, it can lead to unfortunate situations where Fe valuers see Fe devaluers as pompous inflated blowhards while the Fi valuers see the Fe valuers as slimy manipulative creeps.

[Christy B]

Heh yes, it can lead to unfortunate situations where Fe valuers see Fe devaluers as pompous inflated blowhards while the Fi valuers see the Fe valuers as slimy manipulative creeps.

Ya! For sure.

[strrrng]

Well put, Ezra. We could have saved 10 pages of thread yesterday if you had said this then, lol.

[Ezra]

and on the other side, Fe valuers perceive an Fi person's Fe as fake because they know that their Fe is not "true" Fe but their Fe can be used to "cover up" their Fi.

I can't agree with this bit I'm afraid. The rest I'm okay with.

[Ms. Kensington]

I can't agree with this bit I'm afraid. The rest I'm okay with.

yeah i dont like the bit abuot "true" fe.. these are all elements of reality folks, but there will be devaluing according to quadra.

[Gilly]

Well put, Ezra. Fe types deal with "fake emotions" on the same level that Te types deal with "fake facts."

[Kristiina]

Well put, Ezra. Fe types deal with "fake emotions" on the same level that Te types deal with "fake facts."

+1.

And I think I understand what snegled meant by "future emotions". Sometimes I do do that. I try to act positive when I feel crappy, hoping I might start to feel more positive from it. Sometimes it works. And if someone gives me a crappy present I will politely pretend I like it so I won't offend them, because I know they meant well and it will accomplish nothing to start complaining. Besides, sometimes my initial reaction is negative but I later change my mind. When I show emotions, I do sometimes think of the long-term consequences and I don't show some emotions, but I disagree that Fe with Ni is about "future emotions".

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think newbies are also confused on something else, too.

Fe is also not about asking people to smile when they don't want to. That is trying to control other people and is universally annoying. Telling people to 'smile, more' and smiling like some housewife teacher on crack isn't necessarily Fe. Basically that's more like, you don't know how to respond to somebody that is the 'quiet/thinker' type. (which depending on the quadra we all know can be very different underneath even if they look exactly the same.)

Fe is a subtle underlying psychological function, that can manifest itself in lots of different ways. Fe isn't always soft and caring. It can also kick you in the nuts. Do you really want me to demonstrate?

Oh and just a random sidenote: The best pr0n is and . Mmmm. Definitely.

[dbmmama]

Oh and just a random sidenote: The best pr0n is and . Mmmm. Definitely.

that's a given.

[tcaudilllg]

Some Fe type individuals are corrupt. Corrupt individuals think there are situations where they can feign fake forms of a function just to "get by". An Fi person may misrepresent their own feelings, whereas an Fe person may feign acceptance of something they deplore. For F to be truly corrupt, it must represent a deeper submission to misrepresentation than the situational: for example living a lifestyle of misrepresentation. Corruption is not itself misrepresentation however, but is an embrace of the alterego which may possess the trait of confidence in the meaningful deceit of others. (we're talking more than a white lie here, but rather deliberate misreprentation of one's own views and perspectives to make another person like you). It is the embrace of the alterego without restraint which makes corrupt F what it is. Manipulation may also be thrown into the mix when this happens, especially if the deceit is a function of manipulation.

[Ezra]

Oh and just a random sidenote: The best pr0n is and . Mmmm. Definitely.

I wasn't aware that there was any other kind.

I think only Fe with Ni is considered fake. Because it does deal with fake emotions. Or better put, future emotions. Emotions whose purpose is to bring about a change in tomorrow. You act a certain way today so you would get something tomorrow. Or something along those lines. Types with Si only see the current state of the person, which contradict their emotional displays, so they see them as fake. As manipulators. At least that has been my experience.

If nothing else, this would make me think you were Fe PoLR. It demonstrates complete lack of understanding of Fe.

And, as we discussed, I think that Tony Blair = fake Fe and David Cameron = true Fe

Another thing I've observed from Cameron is a clear Beta aristocratic attitude which is clearly lacking in Blair.

Also... from my pov, sometimes feels restrained and measured. (ie: "This is your dose for now"). It can feel static, rigid and fixed. There's a distinct sense of boundary. Not necessarily fake, but rather carefully guarded and/or diffused. Feelings don't get "out of hand".

I agree.

Argh. Fe is not necessarily an 'emotional display'. Fe is felt within an individual and most of the time never shown to the world at all.

Of course, to a Fe creative individual, this is probably true. I've observed the same trait in a lot of IEIs. However, for an EIE, this is practically heresy.

Some Fe type individuals are corrupt. Corrupt individuals think there are situations where they can feign fake forms of a function just to "get by". An Fi person may misrepresent their own feelings, whereas an Fe person may feign acceptance of something they deplore. For F to be truly corrupt, it must represent a deeper submission to misrepresentation than the situational: for example living a lifestyle of misrepresentation. Corruption is not itself misrepresentation however, but is an embrace of the alterego which may possess the trait of confidence in the meaningful deceit of others. (we're talking more than a white lie here, but rather deliberate misreprentation of one's own views and perspectives to make another person like you). It is the embrace of the alterego without restraint which makes corrupt F what it is. Manipulation may also be thrown into the mix when this happens, especially if the deceit is a function of manipulation.

Some Te type individuals are corrupt. Some Se type individuals are corrupt. Some Ni type individuals are corrupt. Some Fi type individuals are corrupt. Some Ne type individuals are corrupt. Some Ti type individuals are corrupt. Some Si type individuals are corrupt. And yes, I agree that some Fe type individuals are corrupt.

[snegledmaca]

Perhaps what I said was wrongly phrased. What I was trying to get at was that when Fe is combined with Ni it can appear fake as it has no immediate material representation.

To go more in depth, my response was based on my father, who I consider to be a beta NF. When he responds to people, from an outside perspective, it seems as he is the biggest faker and manipulator ever. Because he focuses on getting the people into a certain mood so that he can accomplish something. And here lies my point. With a focus on Ni beta NF-s see where they are heading with their methods, with what they are doing. And sometimes the end justifies the means. So sometimes Fe blocked with Ni will see that there is a certain amount of saying the right things needed, even if they are lies, in order to get the person into a right mood, state of mind so that they can accomplish their Ni goal. However, from an outside perspective, and on top of that a perspective with no insight into the Ni of the beta NF, this seems like fake, manipulation. Especially if the Fe person, as they often do, does not care about factually consistency, relevance and gets carried away with their vision, promising castles in the sky from the point of the observer.

When I show emotions, I do sometimes think of the long-term consequences and I don't show some emotions

That was what I was getting at. A calculating emotional response can appear as fake, as manipulation.

If nothing else, this would make me think you were Fe PoLR. It demonstrates complete lack of understanding of Fe.

I would like to know how.

[Wittmont]

Of course, to a Fe creative individual, this is probably true. I've observed the same trait in a lot of IEIs. However, for an EIE, this is practically heresy.

Not necessarily. EIE's are very adept at chosing what they show to the world. A very depressed EIE can seem ok to most people, unless they know them well, and only rarely let anybody else know they are in pain.

[snegledmaca]

I think only Fe with Ni is considered fake. Because it does deal with fake emotions. Or better put, future emotions. Emotions whose purpose is to bring about a change in tomorrow. You act a certain way today so you would get something tomorrow. Or something along those lines. Types with Si only see the current state of the person, which contradict their emotional displays, so they see them as fake. As manipulators. At least that has been my experience.

[aka-kitsune]

I think only Fe with Ni is considered fake. Because it does deal with fake emotions. Or better put, future emotions. Emotions whose purpose is to bring about a change in tomorrow. You act a certain way today so you would get something tomorrow. Or something along those lines. Types with Si only see the current state of the person, which contradict their emotional displays, so they see them as fake. As manipulators. At least that has been my experience.

wtf?

I'm sure that can often seem overwhelming and unnecessarily dramatic to -valuing types. I can imagine that Fi-valuing types either often cannot fathom why emotional display is called for given circumstances, judging by their own preferences for conservative feelings, or believe emotions are inappropriate given the relationship of person to person. (ie: "We are not that close, so you should not feel x at this point").

Also... from my pov, sometimes feels restrained and measured. (ie: "This is your dose for now"). It can feel static, rigid and fixed. There's a distinct sense of boundary. Not necessarily fake, but rather carefully guarded and/or diffused. Feelings don't get "out of hand".

[Wittmont]

Argh. Fe is not necessarily an 'emotional display'. Fe is felt within an individual and most of the time never shown to the world at all.

Fe is not about 'future emotions', that's just nonsense.

[strrrng]

Yeah, I agree, sneglemeca's (or w/e) post was pretty silly; I just didn't have the energy to logically criticize it

[Expat]

Fe deals with the emotional atmosphere. Then this shitty misconception about how Fe ego types propel fake emotions came along.

Fe types don't deal with fake emotions. What they deal with is real emotions. Why they're referred to as "fake" by non-Fe valuing quadras is because to the Fe devaluers, even attempting to preserve the "emotional atmosphere" is a superficial thing to do. It's not that the emotion itself is fake, but that what is going on can be perceived as being something which is entirely unnecessary. And to a Fe devaluer - a Gamma, for example - of course it's fake, because they don't like upholding emotional atmosphere for the sake of harmony in said atmosphere.

I agree with you; I will just nitpick and say that "harmony in said atmosphere" is just one manifestation of Fe. Another one is precisely a "hostile" atmosphere, which can look equally fake.

And, as we discussed, I think that Tony Blair = fake Fe and David Cameron = true Fe