Munenori On Why He Is SEI

[munenori2]

I came into philosophy during a time in my life when I felt very, very directionless and lost. It was a point when I was really struggling with a sense of self-identity. Any notions I did have were incredibly nebulous. I was far too used to being who I needed to be when I interacted with other people without any real clue about who I was outside of this. It was a pretty self-destructive time for me. I wound up dropping all my courses for the semester because I just couldn't take business any more. The focus of the material was too much for me. It totally missed the point of what I wanted to do with my life (not that I knew what this was).

Then one day I found myself in the library wandering the stacks. By chance I ended up in the basement in a random aisle. I wasn't looking for anything in particular. I hadn't even been a regular visitor to the library, but I was searching in a larger sense I suppose. A book managed to catch my eye (maybe it was the bright sky blue binding scrunched between a whole bunch of ancient neighbors), so I plucked it out. It was a copy of Alexis de Toqueville's Democracy in America. The back cover made it sound interesting, about the problems of majority rule, so I checked it out along with another book similarly chosen for looking at lot neater than the rest (some essays on pragmatism I think).

When I sat down to read them, I was completely blown away by the kind of disciplined thinking the authors were able to pull off. This inspired me in a way that had seemed lost to me for a long time. I read voraciously and overnight resolved to be a philosophy major. I wanted to be able to put that kind of order to my jumble of thoughts, even as I fed on the ideas of their work. It's not really an understatement to say that I was pretty euphoric. Philosophy was a constant source of amazement to me, so much so that I even posted a few blogs trying to imitate what I saw as well as lurking in a philosophy forum for a few months.

This always seemed off to me though, in that I simply couldn't create the sort of thing that impressed me so much and, in doing so, I felt like I sometimes came off as semi-ridiculous (one night I was very aware of this I wound up detonating my myspace account where I had them all ). This eventually led me to, while being very interested in the huge variety of ideas and ways of looking at things that I got from philosophy, realizing that my ability to further or participate in philosophy was far outweighed by my interest in it. I did really enjoy sitting in the back listening to the discussions between the teacher and students who were capable that way, but I never kidded myself that I could keep up with them.

[Mediator Kam]

I came into philosophy during a time in my life when I felt very, very directionless and lost. It was a point when I was really struggling with a sense of self-identity. Any notions I did have were incredibly nebulous. I was far too used to being who I needed to be when I interacted with other people without any real clue about who I was outside of this. It was a pretty self-destructive time for me. I wound up dropping all my courses for the semester because I just couldn't take business any more. The focus of the material was too much for me. It totally missed the point of what I wanted to do with my life (not that I knew what this was).

Then one day I found myself in the library wandering the stacks. By chance I ended up in the basement in a random aisle. I wasn't looking for anything in particular. I hadn't even been a regular visitor to the library, but I was searching in a larger sense I suppose. A book managed to catch my eye (maybe it was the bright sky blue binding scrunched between a whole bunch of ancient neighbors), so I plucked it out. It was a copy of Alexis de Toqueville's Democracy in America. The back cover made it sound interesting, about the problems of majority rule, so I checked it out along with another book similarly chosen for looking at lot neater than the rest (some essays on pragmatism I think).

When I sat down to read them, I was completely blown away by the kind of disciplined thinking the authors were able to pull off. This inspired me in a way that had seemed lost to me for a long time. I read voraciously and overnight resolved to be a philosophy major. I wanted to be able to put that kind of order to my jumble of thoughts, even as I fed on the ideas of their work. It's not really an understatement to say that I was pretty euphoric. Philosophy was a constant source of amazement to me, so much so that I even posted a few blogs trying to imitate what I saw as well as lurking in a philosophy forum for a few months.

This always seemed off to me though, in that I simply couldn't create the sort of thing that impressed me so much and, in doing so, I felt like I sometimes came off as semi-ridiculous (one night I was very aware of this I wound up detonating my myspace account where I had them all ). This eventually led me to, while being very interested in the huge variety of ideas and ways of looking at things that I got from philosophy, realizing that my ability to further or participate in philosophy was far outweighed by my interest in it. I did really enjoy sitting in the back listening to the discussions between the teacher and students who were capable that way, but I never kidded myself that I could keep up with them.

+100, i feel the same way.

[munenori2]

I love learning languages. LOVE IT! Probably this has a lot to do with just kind of having a natural talent for it. It's never been something I felt I've had to try to hard at, though for some reason it's an area where I don't mind putting forth effort. There's something about listening to someone in another language and being able to understand what they mean that just puts a smile on my face. More than that, it's just feeling new and exotic sounds hit the ear, or the sensation of the same rolling off your own tongue that satisfies me the most.

Back in the heyday of when I studied languages (still so today, but it's a lot rustier), I had a pretty damn good ear for languages, even ones I didn't know, such that I could make pretty good guesses of where the person was from, or be able to tell if someone was speaking Chinese rather than Korean. Then there was the cultural stuff that fascinated me too. All this is probably why I'd like to travel a lot someday. Just to see, hear, and do something completely new.

[Mediator Kam]

once again you have hit on the subtleties of SEI.

[strrrng]

Flipping through the wiki and various other sources, a few things seemed off to me. The biggest thing was viewing myself as static rather than dynamic. Mostly this has to do with the startling lack of consistency I tend to exhibit. Now there can be cases made for this being an Ne trait maybe, but I don’t mean an appearance of external inconsistency (if I were making connections between things and thus looking like I was focusing on totally different things), but more like a complete and utter lack of internal consistency beyond what strikes me right then. Perhaps I’m mischaracterizing what static/dynamic means, but that way of describing myself always seemed at odd with what an IJ would typically be like I think.

Could you elaborate on this inconsistency a little? I always had this impression of you being a consistent person, but that was an assumption based mainly off of the attitude I perceived you taking towards your exercise regime. You seemed (and correct me if I'm wrong) to have a balanced way of applying yourself in that area that I had always sought in myself. It's not that I had a problem applying myself; it's just that it would be in these extremes and I would end up not even feeling in control of it, despite the apparent rigidity and discipline. You, however, seemed to effortlessly just engage in it consistently and not worry about if you were being disciplined enough (unvalued Se, maybe).

Your description of the philosophy and insecurity about discussing seems to point to Ti mobilizing.

And the thing about languages had a strong SiFe vibe (the detail about having words roll off your tongue, the feelings/vibes produced from hearing the languages, etc.)

[Ms. Kensington]

if anything this thread should be used as a place where mune can write about himself

i respectfully disengage from discussion in this thread.

[munenori2]

Could you elaborate on this inconsistency a little? I always had this impression of you being a consistent person, but that was an assumption based mainly off of the attitude I perceived you taking towards your exercise regime. You seemed (and correct me if I'm wrong) to have a balanced way of applying yourself in that area that I had always sought in myself. It's not that I had a problem applying myself; it's just that it would be in these extremes and I would end up not even feeling in control of it, despite the apparent rigidity and discipline. You, however, seemed to effortlessly just engage in it consistently and not worry about if you were being disciplined enough (unvalued Se, maybe).

Your description of the philosophy and insecurity about discussing seems to point to Ti mobilizing.

And the thing about languages had a strong SiFe vibe (the detail about having words roll off your tongue, the feelings/vibes produced from hearing the languages, etc.)

The inconsistency at the heart of it has to do with the way that I can wind up doing wildly different things in a situation depending on very momentary factors. There have been times when I've decided to do something like go to class, get around, drive there, park, and then, merely from reflecting on how it would feel to have to hustle up The Hill (since I was running late), sit in a cramped classroom with uncomfortable seats, minimal AC, and a teacher that made Ben Stein look like Gilly, I'd simply wind up turning the car back on and going to catch a bite to eat and a movie, promising to figure out the material later. A kind of crude example, but what I'm getting at is that no matter what decisions I come to, they never seem immune to something I pick up on the way to making it happen.

In the background of all this, the kind of framework I use to view the world, like how I can (and this is usually more after the fact than what I pick up on at the moment) act one way using a certain line of reasoning and then later do something else completely, bothers me significantly more than the fact that my grades might suffer (since I was far more concerned with gaining an understanding and enjoying myself than racking up points). At the worst point, I wouldn't have been able to account for why I did things the way I did without feeling like I was contradicting myself. On the whole I feel like I have a more 'together' perspective on a lot of things now, which does allay some of the underlying doubts and confusions I used to have. Still, I poorly apply this stuff today and rarely comment unless I feel very confident about something (which often involves having 'checked in' with someone else previously).

My behavior on the other hand can be pretty consistent in some regards, like the exercising for example, but this seems to rely specifically on the kind of effect it has on my day. This does mean that I seem to fall into ruts if left on my own though, constantly doing things that have made me feel good in the past sometimes even when they've stopped making me feel as good as they once did. There were some times in my regime where it was hard to continue and I'd have to switch it up to keep it fun or even fall off it for a few days. Ultimately though I'd miss the feeling it gave and have to pick it back up in one form or another. That falling into boredom doesn't seem as big an issue now that I'm biking trails instead of just a stationary bike facing a tv or wall. There's just a whole lot more to take in that makes every outing in some way different. So long as this continues being the case with what I'm doing, I really have no trouble at all motivating myself to do it everyday.

[munenori2]

if anything this thread should be used as a place where mune can write about himself

i respectfully disengage from discussion in this thread.

I see what you're up to, Jane!

[Ms. Kensington]

I see what you're up to, Jane!

hey but its working yeah?

[munenori2]

hey but its working yeah?

Yep.

[Christy B]

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no....plz. Don't leave me alone over in Delta Mune.

[munenori2]

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no....plz. Don't leave me alone over in Delta Mune.

aw, it's not you, it's me! We'll always be interquadra friends, cb!

[Rubicon]

The inconsistency at the heart of it has to do with the way that I can wind up doing wildly different things in a situation depending on very momentary factors. There have been times when I've decided to do something like go to class, get around, drive there, park, and then, merely from reflecting on how it would feel to have to hustle up The Hill (since I was running late), sit in a cramped classroom with uncomfortable seats, minimal AC, and a teacher that made Ben Stein look like Gilly, I'd simply wind up turning the car back on and going to catch a bite to eat and a movie, promising to figure out the material later. A kind of crude example, but what I'm getting at is that no matter what decisions I come to, they never seem immune to something I pick up on the way to making it happen.

In the background of all this, the kind of framework I use to view the world, like how I can (and this is usually more after the fact than what I pick up on at the moment) act one way using a certain line of reasoning and then later do something else completely, bothers me significantly more than the fact that my grades might suffer (since I was far more concerned with gaining an understanding and enjoying myself than racking up points). At the worst point, I wouldn't have been able to account for why I did things the way I did without feeling like I was contradicting myself. On the whole I feel like I have a more 'together' perspective on a lot of things now, which does allay some of the underlying doubts and confusions I used to have. Still, I poorly apply this stuff today and rarely comment unless I feel very confident about something (which often involves having 'checked in' with someone else previously).

My behavior on the other hand can be pretty consistent in some regards, like the exercising for example, but this seems to rely specifically on the kind of effect it has on my day. This does mean that I seem to fall into ruts if left on my own though, constantly doing things that have made me feel good in the past sometimes even when they've stopped making me feel as good as they once did.

+ a large number )c:

[diljs]

FWIW munenori I REALLY like the way you think about things so far

[munenori2]

FWIW munenori I REALLY like the way you think about things so far

Thanks.

That's not typically the kind of compliment I get, so I appreciate it.

[Blaze]

munenori: explain your conflict relation with that estp dude then. remember him? if you are SEI then you'd be illusionary with him....and get along pretty well.

[munenori2]

munenori: explain your conflict relation with that estp dude then. remember him? if you are SEI then you'd be illusionary with him....and get along pretty well.

Good question. The fact is that I'm not certain of his type, other than we got on so shitty that I felt like I had to say he was my conflictor. Granted, out of every single person I've ever met in my life, he would be that person. However, I'm not so sure that I placed him right other than as being as far from me as possible. There's a little bit of a conflict of interest in that on further consideration I've wanted to place him as Gamma, and as an Se-valuer rather than someone strong in Se.

Some of this revolves around certain ideas I've been introduced to over time (my interpretation of them might need to be looked at though). The main issue for me in typing him as SLE was that he was very hot-tempered. Tiny little things could send him completely over the edge. There was simply no self control at all, and it always stemmed from people not seeing the way things worked or would turn out. There are some specific examples I could speak to, but I'll save them for anyone who's interested. From what some have said, I've started to consider this a trait of weak but valued Se than ego Se. I'm also not sure he was Fe-valuing simply because he wouldn't give two shits about the effect he was having on other people in a social situation. All this is pretty circumstantial at this point, but frankly my initial typing of him was on very loose grounds. Not sure if this answers much, feel free to ask me more.

[Park]

I understand that you need a break from Delta mune, but please don't take long. And fuck them SLEs.

[Park]

What kind of tinny little things sent him over the edge?

There was simply no self control at all, and it always stemmed from people not seeing the way things worked or would turn out.

Impatience with Te and Ni?

[munenori2]

What kind of tiny little things sent him over the edge?

Trying to contradict him on anything in his realms of expertise: sports, sports betting, poker, anything else he felt better than everyone else at. He was pretty encyclopedic about the sports trivia though. Games, scores, stats, etc.

I can't count the times when he'd blow up when we first moved in together and played poker, just him, my roomie, and myself. He'd get so upset at how our poker plays weren't right for the situation that he'd tell us how fucking retarded we were, storm up the stairs, and seal himself off for the night. Or the Thanksgiving I got back to the apartment and his mom was there with him. The two of them had a bet going on a game and I sat down to watch it. His mom asked him some innocuous question about odds and he started pulling out all these facts about how what she said didn't make sense, punctuating it with a, "Now do you see why what you said was stupid?" or something like that. However, a lot of my dislike of him can probably be attributed to him being a horribly unhealthy whatever the hell condescending ass type he was.

[Park]

He sounds like someone strong in Te and Se. At this point, I could only guess that he's an ST. Maybe even SLI.

[munenori2]

He sounds like someone strong in Te and Se. At this point, I could only guess that he's an ST. Maybe even SLI.

Well, I think my other roommate was an SLI and the two of them were different in a lot of ways. The Te connection seemed more noticeable though, since that was how the two of them communicated, which left me on the outside. I could not see this guy as even remotely Si/Ne though.

[Park]

Well, I think my other roommate was an SLI and the two of them were different in a lot of ways. The Te connection seemed more noticeable though, since that was how the two of them communicated, which left me on the outside. I could not see this guy as even remotely Si/Ne though.

I can also be rude like that but only to certain people and in certain situations. This guy seems a bit more uptight and insensitive thou.

[Park]

Well, I think my other roommate was an SLI and the two of them were different in a lot of ways. The Te connection seemed more noticeable though, since that was how the two of them communicated, which left me on the outside.

In situations like this (taken that you were my friend/roomate), due to my (valued, but unfortunately) weak Fi, I 'll probably play along with the other person, but I wouldn't be alright if something bothered you or if you felt uncomfortable. If nothing else, it would suck to look at you as an outsider, lol.

[munenori2]

In situations like this (taken that you were my friend/roomate), due to my (valued, but unfortunately) weak Fi, I 'll probably play along with the other person, but I wouldn't be alright if something bothered you or if you felt uncomfortable. It would suck to look at you as an outsider, lol.

Well, it was more of an activity thing, but he kind of was stuck in the middle. It basically worked out that the two of them would get high and play poker, and he and I would hang out and get drunk. The way you describe it is pretty much how he handled it actually.

[Blaze]

well if this guy was LIE then your assessment of a conflict relation would be the same if you are SEI.

the facts and data thing seems to point to Te. the criticism of the way others are handling poker strategy seems dynamic/Te.

i think it's easy to confuse leading Te with leading Se, at least on paper or IVL. IRL the difference is obvious. i spose the other things you could look at with him is how great his affinity is with college courses, theory, and complex academic ways of looking at things. SLE would shy away from this type of stuff while LIE would embrace it.

[diljs]

Could definitely see ENTj for the guy. I get ENTjs confused with ESTps at times myself.

Both can be very demanding/inflexible/angry with others at times.

[munenori2]

i spose the other things you could look at with him is how great his affinity is with college courses, theory, and complex academic ways of looking at things. SLE would shy away from this type of stuff while LIE would embrace it.

He did pretty awesome in all the classes he took while I lived with him. Mostly these revolved around sports management/business (he particularly loved an investments class he took one semester). Not that he was in love with taking courses. His primary concern was always making money, to the end that his poker playing and sports betting were much more important to him (he was profitable at both).

[Christy B]

I can see an unhealthy ENTj storming off and sealing themselves up in their room. I have never known an SLE to do that kind of thing. (I know only pretty healthy ESTPs though)

[Park]

Yeah, ENTj would def be a possibility.

[Ezra]

Could definitely see ENTj for the guy. I get ENTjs confused with ESTps at times myself.

Both can be very demanding/inflexible/angry with others at times.

For different reasons. And the reasons are more important than the characteristics for different types.

If you really understand what Te/Fi means, what Fe/Ti means, what Gamma quadra lives for, and what Beta lives for, and what Se base is, and what Te base is, and what Ni creative is, and what Ti creative is, I don't think you have a problem understanding the difference between SLE and LIE at all.

[strrrng]

I'd say the examples lend credence to the ENTj idea. The penchant for factual accuracy and noticing trends seems the most significant. How you said he would correct someone - actually letting them know they were being stupid - seems like Te > Fe, given the context of the situation. Not that ESTps can't do that, but they would most likely not care enough to correct someone on some innocuous (I believe was your word) factual slip up at the expense of the Fe atmosphere. And the subjects you said he was interested in, along with a few other subtleties, seem to support ENTj quite well.