what am i?

[strrrng]

Also, I made no attempt to smooth over the situation... I mocked him.

Your mocking him was exactly what I was alluding to, in regards to the Fe atmosphere.

[aestrivex]

EDIT: I realize that Niffweed did not respond re: the Harvard comment... That was not what I meant by "get caught up in..." This is silly.

oh, wonderful. then what did you mean?


you know what, forget it. i'm done acknowledging your existence. i will never bother you again.

[JuJu]

oh, wonderful. then what did you mean?


you know what, forget it. i'm done acknowledging your existence. i will never bother you again.

Respect is a two-way street, Niffweed. Hopefully you'll learn that sooner or later. Furthermore, name-calling is not the best way to engage ppl in a discussion about feelings.

I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt by my comment--that said, you've never seemed to give much of a shit about my feelings--in this current circumstance or in previous circumstances... Never a hint of concern for anyone but yourself...

You see where I'm going with this?

At Brown, I suggest maybe taking John Tomasi's course... He's a good prof, who will relate some of John Locke's theories to ethics in a way from which you might benefit, IMO. Peace.

[implied]

okay, re: caregiver vs. victim - hard to say. i'd probably make a relatively bad caregiver although i don't mind helping out or whatever if i see that someone is struggling with something. anyhow, if i am a caregiver, i wouldn't call myself an "active" caregiver, if that makes sense. it's not really like i'm incapable of doing everyday chores or whatever, just something that i'm not incredibly fond of. i'd probably prefer someone else to do this, or help out. however, i can do things and don't generally complain tons if i know what needs to be done. i remember this from the wiki -

• neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters

i can at least agree that this makes sense to me.

however i've also sort of seen juju, for instance, take on this role of, "OH ISXps ARE SO AWESOME FOR DISHWASHING! LMAO MY DISHES NEED WASHING!" which seems really patronizing to me. not sure i'd like that at all.

[Expat]

Hmm. I wrote that, and what I meant - and which is based on my conclusions and observations - is that Aggressors dislike the idea that they were dumped, of admitting that to themselves or to others, they see as too humiliating. They prefer the idea that they were the ones to end it, or at least that it was "mutual".

Victims, on the contrary, tend to admit, or even prefer to say, that they were dumped - since they'd feel worse for not trying to keep it going than humiliated for being dumped.

Caregivers and Infantiles seem to me to go either way.

[Slacker]

Niffweed seems more like a Te type than a Ti type to me but I don't have any good argument - he just feels that way to me.

But I think JuJu is ENFp. I read his stuff and often think, "Yeah, that's how I'd respond." I "know" Niffweed well enough now that if he gets gruff it doesn't bother me - it's just Niffweed - but if I didn't "know" him that well and he went off on me I'd get pissed off. BUT I'd be afraid to get him in an argument because I'm not good at arguing, so I'd just blow him off in some way to try to preserve my dignity and make it look like I didn't care.

I can't say JuJu IS ENFp like I 100% know or anything. But he seems more ENFp than anything else to me at this point. I think he's very weak at Se to the point of not having a clue how to handle conflict. As with the Niffweed thing above. "Conflict? La la la la I can't hear you!" I see his Harvard comment as being an example of weak-but-valued Te. And he is very concerned with preserving relationships. After I posted my one mild complaint about him in a thread (also related to IMO his weak-but-valued Te), he PM'd me expressly for the purpose of making sure we still got along (preserving relationship). So I think he's Fi. And sure he has some Fe but ENFps DO have strong Fe, and I think creative Fi is often confused with Fe around here anyway.

I can't speak for Implied's type except that she's awesome. I guess I haven't had a problem seeing her as INTp.

[implied]

Hmm. I wrote that, and what I meant - and which is based on my conclusions and observations - is that Aggressors dislike the idea that they were dumped, of admitting that to themselves or to others, they see as too humiliating. They prefer the idea that they were the ones to end it, or at least that it was "mutual".

Victims, on the contrary, tend to admit, or even prefer to say, that they were dumped - since they'd feel worse for not trying to keep it going than humiliated for being dumped.

Caregivers and Infantiles seem to me to go either way.

i dislike the idea of having failed at a relationship because it makes me focus on my relationship problems, basically. i don't believe it has anything to do with having some imagined upper hand and i can't imagine a loving relationship dealing with power struggles.


@carla - now i'm almost curious to talk to you to see if we're indeed similar.

[Park]

And he is very concerned with preserving relationships.

+1. My observance as well.

[Ezra]

ILI is clear. My reasoning on my type list hasn't changed.

[Kristiina]

INTp/ISTp because Maria's Fe PoLR is obvious. It's like, when it gets all boring and too slow in the chat, someone suddenly comes in and makes a goofy joke. Everyone smiles, goes with the new happy mood a little, they notice the effort and they make an effort to respond (even if they don't even think about it), but there's always a couple of people who don't even try. One is Niffweed who always lookes like he just killed his cat and can't be bothered with simple earthly emotions and then there's Maria who completely ignores the newcomers except if she personally has good relations with him/her. I have notices this many times. It wasn't just a fluke, it really happens all the time. It's clear she doesn't mean anything mean by that, she just doesn't even notice that someone made an effort to liven to mood in the chat.

[Park]

...she just doesn't even notice that someone made an effort to liven to mood in the chat.

Or maybe she thinks that's not something worth paying attention and responding to.

[DirectorAbbie]

I just marked all the logical types. You seem like a square of some sort.

[strrrng]

I just marked all the logical types. You seem like a square of some sort.

lol

[meatburger]

Maria is a cutey pie. Ive talked to her over the interweb and i think INTp fits best. Shes intuitive its certian, shes into all this quirky kind of stuff.

"hi maria what are you doing?
"Im watching pos louegos el toros"
"whats that?"
"Some movie made in a tiny South American town about fruit flies"
"kkk cool"

Ive seen her on cam she just doesn't have the same presence as ISTp's.

ENFp? lol no way

[Ezra]

Maria is definitely Te creative. That's as much as I can say.

[1981slater]

In the poll, all the types have been chosen--> Perhaps Maria is not one person. Perhaps there are two or even three people using the same account, which is misleading the rest of the forum. That may explain all this mess.

[Brilliand]

In the poll, all the types have been chosen--> Perhaps Maria is not one person. Perhaps there are two or even three people using the same account, which is misleading the rest of the forum. That may explain all this mess.

Or it could be jokers voting. I for one marked every option.

I'm the only one who did that, but some others have made very free use of the multiple-selection boxes... such as FDG, who marked everything but ENTp.

Consider the numeric leads, instead of the percentages - INTp is far ahead.

[implied]

btw, while we discussed some reasons against ESI particularly (which overlap a bit with why i think Delta > Gamma more generally), i still don't see too much of a problem with some sort of Delta NF. for one thing, it could explain the Beta NF typings just as well as ILI. perhaps it comes down to how much Fe you can deal with.

going by my few days with gilly & his roommate, i would say my tolerance for (and probably polr) is relatively low. as in, i can take up to 24 hours and from there on out it goes downhill very quickly. (fwiw, gilly types his roommate as LSI. he would be a great example of someone i could not tolerate for more than 24 hours. while i'm not opposed to gilly's typing of him entirely, i wasn't sure why some beta NF or possibly even ILE wouldn't have worked better for his roommate. he did not strike me as a sensor entirely.)

[Waddlesworth]

going by my few days with gilly & his roommate, i would say my tolerance for (and probably polr) is relatively low. as in, i can take up to 24 hours and from there on out it goes downhill very quickly.

Can you elaborate? Such as how it makes you feel or the problems that begin to surface.

[implied]

Can you elaborate? Such as how it makes you feel or the problems that begin to surface.

somewhat. i was just thinking about the EIE stratievskaya description and how the -POLR is described. it's basically exactly what i do not want to deal with at all in my interpersonal relationships. ever. everything that "maxim" is described as doing, i really don't give a shit to do for someone.

Stratievskaya EIE - Wikisocion

the sorts of problems that arise: i start feeling that people who fit this description are generally whiny vaginas and i can't stand them? the poor mood, dramatic tendencies, and the generally tactless, assholish behavior, noting everything that is lacking in the environment, even if the environment is just totally normal. i also think that betas can try to control their physical environment in a way that is incredibly annoying, or want you to concede with whatever they deem appropriate for the environment, or do it for them. i just wind up taking offense very often & snapping because the behavior is annoying to me. fwiw i know betas as well, mostly INFps, who don't seem to really give a shit either way and are rather adaptable.

[Lotus]

the sorts of problems that arise: i start feeling that people who fit this description are generally whiny vaginas and i can't stand them? the poor mood, dramatic tendencies, and the generally tactless, assholish behavior, noting everything that is lacking in the environment, even if the environment is just totally normal. i also think that betas can try to control their physical environment in a way that is incredibly annoying, or want you to concede with whatever they deem appropriate for the environment, or do it for them. i just wind up taking offense very often & snapping because the behavior is annoying to me. fwiw i know betas as well, mostly INFps, who don't seem to really give a shit either way and are rather adaptable.

I've never known XIEs to be that way, Si PoLR or not. That would really annoy me as well.

edit: ironically, it almost seems like Si-valuing to me. I rarely see Beta/Gammas give a shit about things like that.

[strrrng]

somewhat. i was just thinking about the EIE stratievskaya description and how the -POLR is described. it's basically exactly what i do not want to deal with at all in my interpersonal relationships. ever. everything that "maxim" is described as doing, i really don't give a shit to do for someone.

Stratievskaya EIE - Wikisocion

the sorts of problems that arise: i start feeling that people who fit this description are generally whiny vaginas and i can't stand them? the poor mood, dramatic tendencies, and the generally tactless, assholish behavior, noting everything that is lacking in the environment, even if the environment is just totally normal. i also think that betas can try to control their physical environment in a way that is incredibly annoying, or want you to concede with whatever they deem appropriate for the environment, or do it for them. i just wind up taking offense very often & snapping because the behavior is annoying to me. fwiw i know betas as well, mostly INFps, who don't seem to really give a shit either way and are rather adaptable.

I didn't read that full description, because of how absurd it is; but I do know that Ni-ego types are the last people to complain about the comfort of their environment (i.e. shit being out of place, looking a certain way, etc.). If someone is reacting poorly -- "assholish" -- to those things, then it's probably some ENxp seeking Si, or ESxj trying to control the physical dynamics of their environment.

[implied]

I didn't read that full description, because of how absurd it is; but I do know that Ni-ego types are the last people to complain about the comfort of their environment (i.e. shit being out of place, looking a certain way, etc.). If someone is reacting poorly -- "assholish" -- to those things, then it's probably some ENxp seeking Si, or ESxj trying to control the physical dynamics of their environment.

afaik stratievskaya's descriptions are regarded as somewhat legit albeit perhaps a little biased towards gamma.

i couldn't have reasonably seen gilly's roommate as ENFp at all. like i said i thought ENTp was a possibility. fwiw i know that tereg rarely complains about such (this is speaking from his experience at my apartment, which is relatively spartan by any standards.) tereg, as i recall, has specifically stated that he just "adapts," which is just what tereg did at my apartment. ESXj, no, he wasn't, although i understand why you say an ESXj might do this. do you not think that STs in general are a little more "hearty" w.r.t. what their environment is like? my dad is ESTp and he doesn't give a rat's ass what the environment is like. he has his own taste, for sure, but my mom can throw any sort of food at him and he's basically like, "sure, whatever, i'll eat it." instead of approaching it suspiciously as if it's poisoned.

[implied]

I've never known XIEs to be that way, Si PoLR or not. That would really annoy me as well.

edit: ironically, it almost seems like Si-valuing to me. I rarely see Beta/Gammas give a shit about things like that.

ashton can bitch and moan a bit.

[Waddlesworth]

somewhat. i was just thinking about the EIE stratievskaya description and how the -POLR is described. it's basically exactly what i do not want to deal with at all in my interpersonal relationships. ever. everything that "maxim" is described as doing, i really don't give a shit to do for someone.

Stratievskaya EIE - Wikisocion

the sorts of problems that arise: i start feeling that people who fit this description are generally whiny vaginas and i can't stand them? the poor mood, dramatic tendencies, and the generally tactless, assholish behavior, noting everything that is lacking in the environment, even if the environment is just totally normal. i also think that betas can try to control their physical environment in a way that is incredibly annoying, or want you to concede with whatever they deem appropriate for the environment, or do it for them. i just wind up taking offense very often & snapping because the behavior is annoying to me. fwiw i know betas as well, mostly INFps, who don't seem to really give a shit either way and are rather adaptable.

Implied, you are an enigma.

[implied]

Implied, you are an enigma.

i know.

[redbaron]

my dad is ESTp and he doesn't give a rat's ass what the environment is like. he has his own taste, for sure, but my mom can throw any sort of food at him and he's basically like, "sure, whatever, i'll eat it." instead of approaching it suspiciously as if it's poisoned.

that is so awesome. *sigh*

[implied]

lol,

"poor mood, dramatic tendencies" = Fe + Ni
"tactless, assholish behavior" = Fi ignoring
"noting everything that is lacking in the environment" = vulnerable Si, Negativism?

but yeah, I think it's the Irrationals who probably are more adaptable overall? since you're Irrational too it's probably easier to go with their rhythm than with a Rational's, esp. your Conflictor/Supervisor's.

anyway this behavior you describe is like my ENFj brother, who is neurotic about things like dishes sitting in the dish rack that are still a little wet from being washed - he absolutely won't use them, not because they're not dry, but because there is still "dishwater" on them and that feels "dirty" to him, even though technically it's clean water (even if it's only a few drops)... so he'll either wipe all the water off with a paper towel or something, or more commonly, grab a dish from the cabinet that is dry, because it feels "cleaner" to him. lol. he has a lot of similar selfish, illogical behaviors like that; some are probably due to or at least enhanced by his immaturity though.

glam, you make a lot of sense. what i am thinking is, what if i washed dishes for this dude? out of niceness or whatever. and then there was a speck of dirt, or they were still kind of wet or something. i would kind of expect him not to complain or go hire a maid to professionally wash that shit.

[implied]

that is so awesome. *sigh*

yeah, my dad is pretty much the bee's knees.

[implied]

I didn't read that full description, because of how absurd it is; but I do know that Ni-ego types are the last people to complain about the comfort of their environment (i.e. shit being out of place, looking a certain way, etc.). If someone is reacting poorly -- "assholish" -- to those things, then it's probably some ENxp seeking Si, or ESxj trying to control the physical dynamics of their environment.

fwiw as i recall, you once typed karl lagerfeld as ENFj or ENTj. and wow, if you read interviews with this guy, he does some really strange shit. i'm not really sure about lagerfeld's type at this point, but anyhow.

Prestige Hong Kong March 2008 featuring Karl Lagerfeld

just an exerpt:
“I hate the smell of cooking. (…) I don’t eat sweet things. I don’t eat greasy things. (…) Anorexia is nothing to do with fashion. (…)Let’s talk about the fat ones. (…)I hate all children. (…) I don’t want to have a social life. (…) It’s démodé. (…) I try to avoid charity. (…)I’m rich enough not to have to do that. (…) I am not a traveler. I hate it. I never look at my watch. (…)In all my contracts it says, if you want me, send a private jet. (…) I hate to be touched by strangers. It bores me to death. (…) I’m frustrated by nothing at all (…) I have no ambition. (…)I don’t want to be a teacher. (…) I’m the most selfish person in the world. (…) Never go one size ahead. Go down but not up. (…) I’m a computer by myself. (…) Love is a subject I don’t analyze publicly.”

[strrrng]

fwiw as i recall, you once typed karl lagerfeld as ENFj or ENTj. and wow, if you read interviews with this guy, he does some really strange shit. i'm not really sure about lagerfeld's type at this point, but anyhow.

Prestige Hong Kong March 2008 featuring Karl Lagerfeld

just an exerpt:
“I hate the smell of cooking. (…) I don’t eat sweet things. I don’t eat greasy things. (…) Anorexia is nothing to do with fashion. (…)Let’s talk about the fat ones. (…)I hate all children. (…) I don’t want to have a social life. (…) It’s démodé. (…) I try to avoid charity. (…)I’m rich enough not to have to do that. (…) I am not a traveler. I hate it. I never look at my watch. (…)In all my contracts it says, if you want me, send a private jet. (…) I hate to be touched by strangers. It bores me to death. (…) I’m frustrated by nothing at all (…) I have no ambition. (…)I don’t want to be a teacher. (…) I’m the most selfish person in the world. (…) Never go one size ahead. Go down but not up. (…) I’m a computer by myself. (…) Love is a subject I don’t analyze publicly.”

Yeah, I remember him -- Ni-ENFj seems right, now. I'll read the full article (lengthy), cause he's interesting, but I would think he would be a bit of a unique case, no? I mean, the dude has a strong sensory and aesthetic awareness, very concerned with such matters. So, hearing him complain about environmental dissonance or something's appearance or whatever, sort of has a specific context, I would think. Plus, the pith of this discussion deals with peoples' definitions of Si: how much aesthetic crap can be chalked up to it? Regardless, those excerpts, while concerning stereotypical Si matters, seem more just personal idiosyncrasies -- different combinations of this type of thing I have observed in a fair amount of people.


I also wondered if this guy was a sociopath before...

[implied]

Yeah, I remember him -- Ni-ENFj seems right, now. I'll read the full article (lengthy), cause he's interesting, but I would think he would be a bit of a unique case, no? I mean, the dude has a strong sensory and aesthetic awareness, very concerned with such matters. So, hearing him complain about environmental dissonance or something's appearance or whatever, sort of has a specific context, I would think. Plus, the pith of this discussion deals with peoples' definitions of Si: how much aesthetic crap can be chalked up to it? Regardless, those excerpts, while concerning stereotypical Si matters, seem more just personal idiosyncrasies -- different combinations of this type of thing I have observed in a fair amount of people.


I also wondered if this guy was a sociopath before...

no, but it doesn't strike me as really un-ENFj-ish to be concerned with such things as aesthetics, is what i'm saying.

[unefille]

Well, fwiw, I'm pretty high-maintenance in some ways and the stuff glam wrote about her brother doesn't really strike me as all that wrong. I'd wipe that plate down as well. And if someone else washed it for me, I'd smile graciously and furtively wipe it clean when they weren't watching. Or sort of stare at it miserably.

Not really a perfect example of controlling one's environment, but I do need things to be a certain way for my own comfort, although I feel like a weak bitch if I complain about it. When exchanging study notes for exams, I reformat everything that comes my way until it fits my specifications or I won't/can't read it - but I would never ask them to adjust to my needs or anything, but they should also not expect me to read it until I'm comfortable with it. This guy once wrote me love letters (emails?) and it just got so bad that I would resend and request that he punctuate first. But I was younger and shittier then (I hope). Like, I just don't like looking at bad formatting. Plus bad formatting, in addition to bad aesthetics, is also poorly structured and that irritates me even more. And I can't even read some people's posts on the forum because they don't capitalise and/or they use line breaks in weird places and I just lose patience. That's just one manifestation of my bizarro tendencies.

I can imagine I could easily drive someone more laidback absolutely fucking nuts lol.

[Satan]

Well, fwiw, I'm pretty high-maintenance in some ways and the stuff glam wrote about her brother doesn't really strike me as all that wrong. I'd wipe that plate down as well. And if someone else washed it for me, I'd smile graciously and furtively wipe it clean when they weren't watching. Or sort of stare at it miserably.

Not really a perfect example of controlling one's environment, but I do need things to be a certain way for my own comfort, although I feel like a weak bitch if I complain about it. When exchanging study notes for exams, I reformat everything that comes my way until it fits my specifications or I won't/can't read it - but I would never ask them to adjust to my needs or anything, but they should also not expect me to read it until I'm comfortable with it. This guy once wrote me love letters (emails?) and it just got so bad that I would resend and request that he punctuate first. But I was younger and shittier then (I hope). Like, I just don't like looking at bad formatting. Plus bad formatting, in addition to bad aesthetics, is also poorly structured and that irritates me even more. And I can't even read some people's posts on the forum because they don't capitalise and/or they use line breaks in weird places and I just lose patience. That's just one manifestation of my bizarro tendencies.

I can imagine I could easily drive someone more laidback absolutely fucking nuts lol.

youseemlikeyouarenotworththeeffortreallyyouarejust anordinarygirlwithfussinessontop

[unefille]

youseemlikeyouarenotworththeeffortreallyyouarejust anordinarygirlwithfussinessontop

God that was a pain to read.

You're not entirely wrong, except what 'effort'?

--

On topic: I've always seen implied as ILI, although SLI could work as well, I suppose. Generally seems low-tempo, reasonable and fairly informal. Doesn't across as Ni as aexislyd (I think I've spelt that wrong) though.

[Satan]

God that was a pain to read.

You're not entirely wrong, except what 'effort'?

It was hard to write too.

I was speaking out of my ass. I don't care. Punctuation is easy.

[Expat]

When exchanging study notes for exams, I reformat everything that comes my way until it fits my specifications or I won't/can't read it - but I would never ask them to adjust to my needs or anything, but they should also not expect me to read it until I'm comfortable with it. This guy once wrote me love letters (emails?) and it just got so bad that I would resend and request that he punctuate first. But I was younger and shittier then (I hope). Like, I just don't like looking at bad formatting. Plus bad formatting, in addition to bad aesthetics, is also poorly structured and that irritates me even more. And I can't even read some people's posts on the forum because they don't capitalise and/or they use line breaks in weird places and I just lose patience. That's just one manifestation of my bizarro tendencies.

That doesn't sound so much a concern for "aesthetics" as for "structure and clarity". I see that is a clear manifestation of Ti dual-seeking. Things that are not well structured bother you (as you yourself wrote).

ETA: and I think implied is a Fi quadra introvert.

[Lotus]

ashton can bitch and moan a bit.

Usually about people, though? Or things he finds stupid and/or annoying. lol. Not his physical environment. Though sometimes he'll bitch about people being boring, in which case he only needs a simple, “shut the fuck up already, Ashton” to calm down. The guy is relatively flexible and easy to get along with, for me at least.

[unefille]

That doesn't sound so much a concern for "aesthetics" as for "structure and clarity". I see that is a clear manifestation of Ti dual-seeking. Things that are not well structured bother you (as you yourself wrote).

ETA: and I think implied is a Fi quadra introvert.

Mostly, yeah. But some of the reformatting is just ridiculous and yet fundamental. Like I don't like round bullet points so I change them all to squares. And I have a specific font I use. And (this is where the more Ti-DS elements come in) I have a specific listing order for headings, subheadings etc. I justify all my text. I re-align bullet points. Etc. I'm very specific in my requirements and some are structure related and some are visual/presentation related.

The one other person I know who always comments on the way I format and present material and papers is an LIE E3, so I figure somewhere in there, there's an explanation, with our shared E-type and Si PoLR and Se HA, although (quite understandably) he's less obsessed than I am about explicit structuring.

[Expat]

Mostly, yeah. But some of the reformatting is just ridiculous and yet fundamental. Like I don't like round bullet points so I change them all to squares. And I have a specific font I use. And (this is where the more Ti-DS elements come in) I have a specific listing order for headings, subheadings etc. I justify all my text. I re-align bullet points. Etc. I'm very specific in my requirements and some are structure related and some are visual/presentation related.

Regarding the round bullet points, well, maybe it's a matter of taste (Steve Jobs said of Microsoft, the only problem he had with them is that they had no taste) - by definition, something internal (also in socionics terms).

The one other person I know who always comments on the way I format and present material and papers is an LIE E3, so I figure somewhere in there, there's an explanation, with our shared E-type and Si PoLR and Se HA, although (quite understandably) he's less obsessed than I am about explicit structuring.

FWIW, I never pay the slighest attention to such things. I can't tell you whether I prefer a specific font or bullet point, or not. My preferred style of giving presentation is simply standing up, going to a whiteboard, and drawing things/making calculations/etc as I make my point (which of course is not always welcome - for some people/situations I do make presentations, but I find it extremely tedious).