Question about functional order in socionics

[XoX]

Im ISTP in MBTI and ISTp in socionics. It is clear from the descriptions. Some people disagree with this though but I'm pretty sure about it.

The only problem is the socionics functions and their order doesnt seem to match me well or I just don't get it right what the functions mean.

It says i should have
1. Introverted Sensing
2. Extroverted Thinking
3. Introverted Intuition
4. Extroverted Feeling

The 3 and 4 seem right but I have trouble with 1 and 2. I would be more happy with
1. Introverted Thinking
2. Extroverted Sensing
but it may be I dont understand the functions correctly yet...

Any ISTp out there who has similar problems or who feels ISTp function set is actually correct for them. I seriously can't think I'm j so don't suggest that

Addition:
I read the function descriptions through again and I think I'm starting to get it how my first functions are working...my mind is just so corrupted from MBTI that it is hard to form new understanding. This might be because of the Si trying to resist the change I think.

Addition 2:
Now I'm finally totally confused: "If you are an ISTp in MBTI with an emphasis on expressing Se and Ti, your actual socionics type is either an ESTp if you choose to stay a perceiving type or ESFj if you find that you might want to consider being a socionic's judging type ." For the first time I admit I _might_ not be socionics ISTp. But I still think it is most probable option. I hate this feeling of confusion. I could use some encouragement

[Rocky]

Now I'm finally totally confused: "If you are an ISTp in MBTI with an emphasis on expressing Se and Ti, your actual socionics type is either an ESTp if you choose to stay a perceiving type or ESFj if you find that you might want to consider being a socionic's judging type ." For the first time I admit I _might_ not be socionics ISTp. But I still think it is most probable option. I hate this feeling of confusion. I could use some encouragement

Hey... where did you find that? I don't really agree with it...

The difference is that MBTI and socionics define the functions differntly, not that the types are differnt. Having Se in MBTI is pretty much the same as having a first function of sensing in socionics (either Se or Si). MBTI defines Se as being more "impulsive", or taking things as they go, which, in socionics, is what they say having a dominant perceiving funciton is like. In MBTI, Si dominant types are more "stable", "sequential", etc... whereas, in socionics, Si is being more carefree; a free spirit. MBTI justifies it by saying that your J/P is based on your outside world, and socionics says that your J/P is based on your dominant function, in other words.

[XoX]

Hey... where did you find that? I don't really agree with it...

Thanks for comment!

It was from one thread on this site. But it said they are test descriptions input was asked from readers to make them better.

Check:
http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2244

Your input might be appreciated there.

I think I will stick to the ISTp atm. But I'm used to judge the E/I and J/P from external behaviour so I have to give this some extra thought

[Creepy-]

i'd read the thread of the link you posted. i believe, however, that thepart of the article rocky quoted (the possibility of being an estp or esfj) refers to those types that are most often/likely mistaken to be istp. hence, they're not istps to begin with and the articles under that link help one understand (when in doubt) by using a couple of pointers ...either that, or the people tested might be istps but might test as sth else (the inaccuracy of this all...

not sure if i'm explaining myself correctly here

he died with a felafel

[XoX]

OK thanks everyone who responded. Im now confirmed ISTp in socionics

[Topaz]

OK thanks everyone who responded. Im now confirmed ISTp in socionics

XoX tell us a little about yourself Were you born in Finland? My friend and his wife just moved there two days ago. She's from Finland and he's from California. He's going to freeze That the risk you take when you marry someone from another country.
I read somewhere that the national character of Finland was istp. What are your thoughts on that, if any?

[XoX]

XoX tell us a little about yourself Were you born in Finland? My friend and his wife just moved there two days ago. She's from Finland and he's from California. He's going to freeze That the risk you take when you marry someone from another country.
I read somewhere that the national character of Finland was istp. What are your thoughts on that, if any?

Telling "us" something doesn't sound like a thing I would normally like to do :wink: I respond better to telling "me" something if you understand what I mean. But considering the nature of this forum you always talk to everyone so it doesn't really matter. This is just a small lesson on how to interact with ISTp successfully. In real life asking to "tell us something" sounds a bit hostile and definately not very personal.

And yes I was born in Finland. I'm a guy and I'm older than the average person here. I think I have my weak functions a bit better developed than some 18 year old warmongering ISTp you sometimes see writing here...I'm married with an ISFj without children. I'm now studying to get a degree so I have plenty of time to learn something actually useful like socionics at the same time. Having an MBTI "background" I'm especially interested in the intertype relations stuff which MBTI mostly lacks. I just hate to learn this new functions system...

And considering the national character of Finland...I doubt it is ISTp. Finland is too organized to be that type. I would go with ISTj but I'm not sure how an outsider would see things. Being late from a meeting is probably bigger crime than punching your co-worker...I'm always late so I feel like a criminal With the influence of EU growing I'm seeing more E, N, F, and P features as we are trying to adapt to a very different culture.

I could go on forever about the weather but I can only take so much small talk at a time Really the weather is crazy. Right now it is cold but you hardly see any snow in Southern Finland nowadays. Just rain. I feel like I'm living in England. I have to learn to drink tea. Rain makes you want to drink tea I think.

[Creepy-]

does anybody know istps to be flirtatious...and like to touch quite a bit their interlocutors (esp. if opposite gender? i mean, peeps on this thread...esp istps themselves?
ttyl

[Reuben]

ISTps are loving. Sometimes they express it through flirting. Now I'm rhyming. I think I'd better be sleeping. *yawns a little* Sorry for this small little post. I hope it gets thing going. Goodnight.

[Topaz]

Telling "us" something doesn't sound like a thing I would normally like to do :wink: I respond better to telling "me" something if you understand what I mean. But considering the nature of this forum you always talk to everyone so it doesn't really matter. This is just a small lesson on how to interact with ISTp successfully. In real life asking to "tell us something" sounds a bit hostile and definately not very personal.

I did take that into consideration. I felt like-how can I have a private conversation on a forum? Sorry if I put you on the spot. IRL I would have personalized it. The upside of the web is it is more or less anonymous. Of course with the world changing the way it is it probably wont be for long

And yes I was born in Finland. I'm a guy and I'm older than the average person here. Me too I think I have my weak functions a bit better developed than some 18 year old warmongering ISTp you sometimes see writing here...I'm married with an ISFj without children. I'm now studying to get a degree so I have plenty of time to learn something actually useful like socionics at the same time. Having an MBTI "background" I'm especially interested in the intertype relations stuff which MBTI mostly lacks. I just hate to learn this new functions system...

And considering the national character of Finland...I doubt it is ISTp. Finland is too organized to be that type. I would go with ISTj but I'm not sure how an outsider would see things. Being late from a meeting is probably bigger crime than punching your co-worker...I'm always late so I feel like a criminal With the influence of EU growing I'm seeing more E, N, F, and P features as we are trying to adapt to a very different culture. Good, I'll be sure to visit my friends then ! ehm in the spring or summer :wink:

I could go on forever about the weather but I can only take so much small talk at a time Really the weather is crazy. Right now it is cold but you hardly see any snow in Southern Finland nowadays. Just rain. I feel like I'm living in England. I have to learn to drink tea. Rain makes you want to drink tea I think.

Try earl grey with cream and sugar.

[Creepy-]

from the socionics description of istps: "Generally ISTps do not like shaking hands, hugging and similar forms of greeting. When outside their territory, ISTps may openly ignore people that they have met before. "


is this true...?? i'd not agree not one bit from my personal experience with istps..

anyone else?

[Creepy-]

from the socionics description of istps: "Generally ISTps do not like shaking hands, hugging and similar forms of greeting. When outside their territory, ISTps may openly ignore people that they have met before. "

is this true...?? i'd not agree not one bit from my personal experience with istps..

anyone else?

It is an exaggeration. All ISTp descriptions exaggerate their negative features :wink: But I think it is partly true.

I don't like shaking hands. It is so formal. I don't want my relationships to be formal...not even with strangers. I relate to people quickly and want to be as informal and relaxed with them as possible. I find hand shaking quite ackward, ritualistic and unnecessary but I do it if I have to...

Hugging is just a bit too Fi... :wink: Strangers who hug me all the time invade my privacy (this contradicts a bit with my informality need but I'm complex). Some people make surprise hugs even from behind which always scares the hell out of me It is not nice to scare people...

About the ignoring...if I feel socially insecure in a situation I might not be very open and turned a bit "inwards". Maybe someone can interpret this as ignoring if they themselves don't find the social context intimidating at all.

[XoX]

That was from me. I cant believe I forgot to log. It is so N. I knew something was wrong since there was no "Attach signature" checkbox....

[Creepy-pokeball]

I tgets really confusing when you see that there are 4 theories: Socionics, MBTI, Berens and Beebe...welll, I guess, Kiersey, too, sorta...lol. Confused yet? =D

[Creepy-]

Haha not really. I guess that's because I don't know what's barnes and beebe, the other three (socionics, mbti, and kiersey) are basically the same thing (though there are differences everywhere) but i see socionics as something more worthwhile to study. The other 2 are well...IMO a little outdated.

[schrödinger's cat]

I have to learn to drink tea. Rain makes you want to drink tea I think.

Try earl grey with cream and sugar.

Hah - finally a point where I disagree with you, Topaz. I knew there had to be something. Earl grey tea tastes like shower gel.

[/thread hijack]

[schrödinger's cat]

The difference is that MBTI and socionics define the functions differntly, not that the types are differnt. Having Se in MBTI is pretty much the same as having a first function of sensing in socionics (either Se or Si). MBTI defines Se as being more "impulsive", or taking things as they go, which, in socionics, is what they say having a dominant perceiving funciton is like. In MBTI, Si dominant types are more "stable", "sequential", etc... whereas, in socionics, Si is being more carefree; a free spirit. MBTI justifies it by saying that your J/P is based on your outside world, and socionics says that your J/P is based on your dominant function, in other words.

Agree. As I understand it, in MBTI

--Se perceives the outer world through the five senses,
--Si perceives an inner representation of the outer world, so it perceives "things as they should be".

In Socionics,

-- Si perceives the physical sensations caused by your five senses
--Se perceives the outer world itself, esp. when it comes to actions.

[XoX]

Agree. As I understand it, in MBTI

--Se perceives the outer world through the five senses,
--Si perceives an inner representation of the outer world, so it perceives "things as they should be".

I never really understood what this MBTI Si was all about...The Se was a decent description of me.

In Socionics,

-- Si perceives the physical sensations caused by your five senses
-- Se perceives the outer world itself, esp. when it comes to actions.

Going with this description I'm more Si in socionics. I always thought these "physical sensations" were my feelings but I have a lot to learn I guess But is Si only that?

[schrödinger's cat]

I never really understood what this MBTI Si was all about...

Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes.

Apparently it's what (MBTI) ISFJs do. My Mum is one and she's exactly like this description. She prefers things to be "like they ought to be" or "like they've always been" or "like they usually are". She can talk about her memories and add so much vivid detail that you think you're living the experience with her. She's good at recognizing people: "Wait, wasn't this Mrs XY over there?" and I usually go "errr... yes? Hng?" As for the "great attention to detail"... oh dear, yes. And the "oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization"... that sounds abstract, but I know what they mean. Family, the importance of helping your next-door neighbour if they're in trouble, the importance of respect for those who're in a weaker position than you are... all that counts a lot for her.

Going with this description I'm more Si in socionics. I always thought these "physical sensations" were my feelings but I have a lot to learn I guess But is Si only that?

Probably not... I'll try and find a quote about that... Hah, I found several, so you can pick'n mix.

Existence in the medium of sensations, the perception of the surrounding world through sensations of touch, smell, taste; health, cleanliness.
Estimation of the properties of surrounding objects through the sensations which appear from them.
Ability to distinguish the qualities of sensations.
Sensation of the surrounding space, aesthetical pleasure, physical satisfaction (solid pleasures), comfort.

Jung's function: Introverted Sensing
Socionics function: white sensing - sense - sensational sensorics
physical relationships between processes taking place at same time and place - how they affect one’s inner state; physical sensations (sound, smell, etc.), how one feels, health, aesthetics.

Your five senses perceive the physical world in all its rich sensations. Sensitive to everything that is physical. Perfect functioning of your five senses. An excellent understanding of the beauty of the world. You withdraw from inconvenience and discomfort. Ability to find the most comfortable place in the surrounding space. Understand the physical needs of people. Pragmatism, aesthetics, using minimum of effort, the skill to find convenience in everything. Rich sensations of the physical world. Strong sensory perception. High physical sensitivity. Perfect working of your five senses. Desire and skill to surround yourself and people with cosiness and comfort. Constant ability to receive the beauty of the world. Developed taste, esthetical value, tendency toward sensory pleasures.

[Topaz]

I have to learn to drink tea. Rain makes you want to drink tea I think.

Try earl grey with cream and sugar.

Hah - finally a point where I disagree with you, Topaz. I knew there had to be something. Earl grey tea tastes like shower gel.

[/thread hijack]

See I wouldnt know cause I just use a plain old bar of soap (pedestrian, I know). So what else do you snack on? What does hair gel taste like?
What are the English drinking as far as tea goes these days? Im quite sure they havent given it up. :wink:

[schrödinger's cat]

Oh, the things I've seen in England...

English ways of preparing tea:

(a) dump teabag in mug. Pour boiling water. Let teabag steep for a few moments. Pull it out with fingers, dump in second mug. Pour boiling water. Add milk.

(b) Put some milk (cold!) in mug. Add teabag [sic]. Pour boiling water.

And if you're in England for long enough, someone will ask you not for a cup of tea, but "just a cup of hot water, please".

You just have to love those people.

[Topaz]

Since we are WAaaaaaay off topic (sorry istps) I might as well add that when I was in Europe one thing that drove me nuts was I couldnt get a cup of coffee. No, not a shot of expreso (which gave me the shakes) but a real (American type) cup of coffee. Yknow the kind you can nurse for and hour or so. I figure, any civilized country should have a Starbucks, heck even the developing countries probably have them. I hate Starbucks an dont go to them in the States because there are plenty of other less expensive and better coffee houses but when Im in another country I should at least be able to rely on the Evil Empire for a decent cup o joe

Now back to our show:

uh.... istps are cool

[schrödinger's cat]

Topaz, that's so simple. You order half an espresso, a big mug, and a cup of hot water.

[Tepa]

schrödinger's cat: I'm not English (though I was born in England... hmmm) but I drink hot water all the time. People think I'm weird