Winterpark

[aestrivex]

I'm gonna hang out with smccosker tomorrow, so we'll see...

ok, now i KNOW you're not IEE.

big mistake that you and others here commonly make: quit associating everything social with Fe-valuing.

that's hardly what i'm doing. i'm associating lokivanguard's rather vain approach to it as Fe-valuing.

where does LV ever expect people to abide by certain social standards? (and how is that quadra-related, in any case?)

in that he sort of wants to exclude anyone who he doesn't feel acts in an appropriately beta-esque manner. his hostility towards me is a basic, and perhaps not all-encompassing, but nonetheless appropriate example; this is not to say that an SLI would be averse to saying that people are idiots or losers, but that the way lokivanguard has done it strikes me as a fairly reasonable fit with beta.

most of the time his answers regarding these types of things seem to be along the lines of "just leave me alone" which I think is pretty characteristic of SLIs. however, SLIs don't have a problem telling somebody who's being super emotional or whatever to fuck off/quit being a drama queen/chill out/etc.

is that necessarily so inappropriate for a beta ST?

why do you assume that everybody here just "blindly" adheres to certain typings? just because you don't agree with them? how do you know whether they're put thought into someone else's type or not? that's insulting to other people's intelligence.

because that's the only explanation i have. perhaps you're right though, i suppose its possible that people are really stupid enough to actually put a great deal of thought into a typing and still be utterly clueless about it. but i think it's far more reasonable to suggest that most of these are given with very little thought and rarely considered critically to any degree of seriousness... not altogether something that might be unexpected for Se types.

[aestrivex]

Please try to be civil, as well.

if i think you're a moron, i'll tell you so. if you don't like it, get out of the kitchen.

[JuJu]

if i think you're a moron, i'll tell you so. if you don't like it, get out of the kitchen.

OK, fair enough.

This "moron" went to Northwestern, Wesleyan, and Harvard... Ever heard of those schools, Niffweed?

Where did you go? That's right: nowhere... You're a teenage boy.

Peace.

why do you assume that everybody here just "blindly" adheres to certain typings? just because you don't agree with them? how do you know whether they're put thought into someone else's type or not? that's insulting to other people's intelligence. I see you constantly criticizing the "groupthink" here; I think what's more of a problem is your intellectual arrogance and scorn for others who don't hold up to whatever bullshit standards you have.

If he's half as intelligent as he thinks he is, he'll get over it... Although it seems like it might take a few years.

[Lotus]

I've made it clear on more than one occassion I find it very offensive when people make it seem like all i care about is alcohol and gambling and making it seem like i'm a drunk. Whatever. I'm done asking for common courtesy.

And for people to sit behind a computer screen and analyze who they think i am based on words on a message board is just ***ing ridiculous. No one knows me, all you know about me is what I choose to show....which is nothing. Stop trying to type me people, it doesn't matter. I am who I am.

+1000000000000

Leave her the fuck alone. lmao

[JuJu]

bush, one of the greatest jackasses in recent history, also graduated from an ivy league school. what the fuck is your point? and how is this not beta? and why is his argument less valid because he's younger than you or because he hasn't gone to three separate ivy schools? get over yourself.

I didn't start the argument, implied; in fact, I asked that it stop... After all, who wrote, "you're a moron" twice?

BTW, I earned my way through those schools--I'm proud of my achievements.

To continue to your other points: from what I can tell, Niffweed's only argument is that smccosker--along with a bunch of other deltas--are beta... I disagreed with that, and stated that I believe they are SLI... No one got into any particulars as to why they believe beta or delta... So as to the "validity" of Niffweed's argument--here it is, summed up: smccosker, jessica, luis, and wpark are SLE. End.

"How is this not beta?" Honestly, what are you talking about? (If getting into this any further will lead to more pettiness, I'm really not interested.)

[JuJu]

it's a status-based argument. i'm sorry, but it (and you, at the moment) smells like beta.

A status-based argument? Implied, let me ask you: how would you respond to someone who called you a "moron" twice? Think about it.

Also, what type are you? Beta?

Peace.

[JuJu]

i would not start pulling out degrees to prove them otherwise. it's perfectly reasonable that you could have gone to three schools and still fail to know anything about socionics heh.

And it's also "perfectly reasonable" that Jessica, smccosker, Luis, and WPark are right about their types... And that I believe them to be correct in their typings b/c I've dealt with quite a few SLIs.

It seems like this really hit a nerve with you...

(Honestly, I have no idea what type you are... The question was genuine.)

[JuJu]

it's reasonable that they're right, but i believe that at least smccosker is wrong (if he thinks he's SLI.)

Smccosker has been studying Socionics for about a year--not a complete novice by any means--and he does believe that he's SLI... I've been speaking with him everyday, extensively, and I'll meet with him tomorrow... As of now, I believe that he's SLI--Si in ego comes through in his interests and how he perceives the world; Fi-valuing comes through in whom he seeks for friendships, and his ideals--all of this said, I'll be able to give a more confident appraisal of his type after we hang out.

[FDG]

Smccosker has been studying Socionics for about a year--not a complete novice by any means--and he does believe that he's SLI... I've been speaking with him everyday, extensively, and I'll meet with him tomorrow... As of now, I believe that he's SLI--Si in ego comes through in his interests and how he perceives the world; Fi-valuing comes through in whom he seeks for friendships, and his ideals--all of this said, I'll be able to give a more confident appraisal of his type after we hang out.

Well then he really presented himself under the wrong light

[JuJu]

well can you then extrapolate on his Si interests and what ideals he has that strike you as particularly Fi valuing?

Perhaps it would be better to do so after tomorrow... I'll have a much better grasp of his personality then.

Well then he really presented himself under the wrong light

I can understand why, based on what he wrote initially, ppl would type him other than SLI... At first, I typed him as SLX too.

But then I began communicating with him--first on AIM, and then talking on the phone--and his personality became much more clear.

I'll ask if he's amenable to making a video... Perhaps that will give some insight.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

it's reasonable that they're right, but i believe that at least smccosker is wrong (if he thinks he's SLI.)

Your knowledge of socionics, as you know, is poor, as you say yourself. What use is your opinion here?

You are calling numerous people here as acting in a beta way. Yet you say yourself that you don't like that everytime you disagree with someone you immediately get labeled as Se valueing Beta, and INFp, and you do it again in this thread. Where is the consistency in your actions?

probably gamma, although the actual closest board consensus on my type is ISTp heh.

Now we are getting to those who possible mis-typings. How can someone such as you, who is constantly worried about their health because they don't understand or know how to listen to their body, does not enjoy any physical exercise, rarely enjoys physical sensations of the world, constantly worries about the future, not living in the here and now, how is that making you in any way possible an SLI?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

i don't think cyclops ever figured out that i've been asked by the admin to ignore him.

Well, considering at the time it was me who approached mcnew asking to be able to put you on ignore, and the best fit solution was that you ignore me, because moderators can't be put on ignore, after receiving 22 crazed pm's from you, how would I not realise?

Anyway, what you say is moot, fairly recently you engaged in a thread conversation with me when I was suggesting various things for INTp for you, you were interested in hearing my thoughts, so yet again, your comment quoted is somewhat redundant.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

eh, you know there were at least 22 from you in response, some very insulting ones at that. please don't pretend to play an innocent role, as that was barely the case.

I have no desire to continue this petty discussion with you. My initial point raised was socionically related, in regards to your type and the methods we employ to type others. It was you who brought up this irrelevancy of who's speaking to who.

it isn't moot. as far as i remember i didn't engage in it either. re: beta - hypocrisy shmypocrisy. and yes, i read some of your posts -- if i think they are aimed at me and at my own discretion -- wondering why you continue to try to engage me in dialogue after you went to the trouble of involving mcnew in this. anyhow, that's all. continue as you will.

I'm not sure I understand this post, but I think you are now asking me why I engage here with you, it is simple, it's socionics. I'm also aware that you over-reacted and I'm mature enough to let over-reactions be bye-gones, at the very least for for the sake of relevant discussions. But then perhaps your insistance at dragging things on as you do, is this more evidence for you being Se valuing?

Edit: Without trying to sound condescending in the slightest (seriously) try to remember that as you are a 6 you can identify threats and enemies which are not there. I think that's relevant and perhaps useful for you as well.

[Ezra]

They know themselves better than niffweed knows them, and suggesting that "nobody has a clue about X" is completely counterproductive for any discussion on the matter.

I disagree that the statement about people knowing themselves better than others do is an inherent fact. I think there are a lot of people who have no clue about who the fuck they are.

suffice to say, none of jessica/winterpark/lokivanguard appear to have an ounce of delta values or any particular interest in Si.

What are Winterpark's interests? Luis'? (I know what Nicole's are; the whole forum does.)

the way that people deal with users such as smccosker, an obvious SLE, also suggests to me that many people see SLIs as something of introverted SLEs, much like the MBTI ISTP is often described. needless to say i think that it is far more reasonable to say that these people are comparatively reserved or not socially outgoing SLEs rather than to suggest that they have any Si or delta-ness at all.

Yeah, they're probably all ISTPs, and thought that when they came to socionics, it would all play out nice and smoothly. Clearly it hasn't.

I'm having a little trouble buying this. If Jessica had in her ego, wouldn't she be more receptive to public demonstrations of , rather than the 'repulsed' feeling she gets from watching other probable SLEs use it, like Chelsea Handler, for instance (perhaps because it's her 7th 'private' function)?'

Who the fuck is Chelsea Handler, and why is she SLE?

Just by reading his posts, including a recent thread topic of his, Loki V appears to value as a 5th function (something he seeks and will occasionally produce himself) more so than he ignors it.

This is about as valid as a statement that claims a pineapple is a dead hedgehog. Wait, let me try:

Just by reading his posts, including a recent thread topic of his, Loki V appears to value as a 5th function (something he seeks and will occasionally produce himself) more so than he ignors it.

Aha! See what I did there? Isn't that clever! God, I am a genius...

Is there any other reason you perceive him to be Se/Ti? Cause I'm not seeing it.

Is there any other reason you perceive him to be Si/Te? Cause I'm not seeing it.

But surely a female SLE wouldn't tend to regard another female's (even of an undetermined type) public display of as disgusting and repulsive, would they?

What type are you? I think you're disgusting and repulsive. Does this make me your identical now?

Any preference for Fe atmoshperes exhibited by Loki V are easily much more favorable to Alpha-Fe than Beta Fe.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

I've been married to my husband for 10 years and have one and a half kids with him and he still doesn't communicate that warmly with me.

Does this bother you?

As for Jessica, I see plenty of Si in her desire to fulfil any sensory needs she has. And I know that you don't see that as evidence of ego-block Si. But my husband did go through a period like that at one point when he was unhappy in his job and lonely, and as I recall Jessica is going through some similar things. Again, I need to step back and stop comparing her to my husband, but I'm thinking out loud and that's part of my thought process.

No, I think it's important that comparisons like these are made. It clearly makes way for new ideas and theories about people's types, and productive discussion is always a good thing.

Jessica's reactions to male IEI's 'emotional displays' that I have witnessed (once in an old thread about her ex-boyfriend and another in B&D's thread about SLE-IEI duality) have also reflected intense repulsion and lack of patience in those matters as well as interest in discussing them at length.

Would that normally apply to an SLE's response to IEIs?

B&D's emotional displays are incredibly tiring. I'm not surprised she feels repulsed by them. But does she also feel repulsed by Loki? glamourama? Starfall? esper? Wittmont? Of course she'll claim that her boyfriend was Fe creative to back up the fact that she's an "ISTP". I could do the same with, hmmm... ESI?

Yeah, I my ex was a total bitch; fucking ILE always coming up with new ideas and theories that I just don't care about. Totally unrealistic. Blah blah blah.

Doesn't work like that, DeAnte.

I have also noticed that on occasions where Jessica will make posts talking about group activities she's been to, she will mention the drinking and eating (sensory thrills) as being the most fun, while often making it a point to mention she had fun "despite" being surrounded by all of the other people (weak Fe?).

Weak Fe; yes, I can flow with that. Often I find the best thing about dinner parties is the food. A lot of people are people not worth socialising with. Ever. Woah. I must be SLI!

I also don't see Jessica as promoting herself as the center of attention in loud, expressive Beta-Fe atmospheres, but more interested in the possibility of who she might meet at group activities or the food, etc.

Do you think all SLEs do this?

I've made it clear on more than one occassion all i care about is alcohol and gambling and i'm a drunk.

i am ***ing ridiculous. No one knows me, I choose.... nothing. Stop trying people, it doesn't matter who I am.

Poor you.

Yeah.

[jessica129]

What are Winterpark's interests? Luis'? (I know what Nicole's are; the whole forum does.

Did you know I'm an avid stamp collector????????? PFT.

[Sirena]

Who is Nicole? Jessica?

[Ezra]

Did you know I'm an avid stamp collector????????? PFT.

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jessica129]

Who is Nicole? Jessica?

Yeah

[tiny_dancer]

She has an alias. The police are probably looking for her in five states.

[Expat]

This "moron" went to Northwestern, Wesleyan, and Harvard... Ever heard of those schools, Niffweed?

Where did you go? That's right: nowhere... You're a teenage boy.

This kind of "hierarchical put-down", as in "I am more worthy than you", is more like a " re-arrangement of the social roles in the discussion" -- as in "shut your mouth because I am more important than you", and your universities, etc, make you more important.

I don't know whether to see it as insecurity - as in, having no other argument left - or as a natural inclination. Either way, for your information, I assure you that it has precisely the opposite effect on many people.

[Park]

This kind of "hierarchical put-down", as in "I am more worthy than you", is more like a " re-arrangement of the social roles in the discussion" -- as in "shut your mouth because I am more important than you", and your universities, etc, make you more important.

I don't know whether to see it as insecurity - as in, having no other argument left - or as a natural inclination. Either way, for your information, I assure you that it has precisely the opposite effect on many people.

I must admit that it took me by surprise. I didn't expect that from JuJu. I, for one, would never use such an argument. Calling up on those things is... I don't know... untasty, at the least.

[dbmmama]

This kind of "hierarchical put-down", as in "I am more worthy than you", is more like a " re-arrangement of the social roles in the discussion" -- as in "shut your mouth because I am more important than you", and your universities, etc, make you more important.

I don't know whether to see it as insecurity - as in, having no other argument left - or as a natural inclination. Either way, for your information, I assure you that it has precisely the opposite effect on many people.

you're a sweetie juju, but i got to go with expat on this one.

[Slacker]

To answer Ezra:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
I've been married to my husband for 10 years and have one and a half kids with him and he still doesn't communicate that warmly with me.

Does this bother you?

No. I'm happy with him as he is.

[jessica129]

Slackermom, I've never thought of you as ENFP. Something about it doesn't work.

[dbmmama]

To answer Ezra:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
I've been married to my husband for 10 years and have one and a half kids with him and he still doesn't communicate that warmly with me.



No. I'm happy with him as he is.

how does one communicate warmly anyway? i just talk. warm is not a word that fits for me. loving, but not warm.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Moron: part of a momenclature used to classify different grades of mental deficiency, specifically categorising those with an IQ of 50-69.

A terminology which is dropping out of psychology technical literature, due to lack of consistency in usage, not to mention the distinctly unfavourable connotations it has in common language.

[aestrivex]

Slackermom, I've never thought of you as ENFP. Something about it doesn't work.

lol.


i am done with this.

[jessica129]

lol

[Park]

lol

lol

[jessica129]

This is the end of socionics as we know it. I think niffweed is ESTJ. Discuss.

[Enters Laughing]

To the lot of you: you couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo if your life depended on it.

[dbmmama]

This is the end of socionics as we know it. I think niffweed is ESTJ. Discuss.

lol

SEI for niffweed

[dbmmama]

I'd be like, running around with a banjo and screaming: "Where the fuck's the barn!"

LOL!!

[Park]

The Juju-niffweed thing might illustrate general Democracy versus Aristocracy.

Aristocratic quadras seem more sensitive to terms _potentially judging their "endowments" [and prone to interpreting them as that potentiality] Either because hierarchal authority is their own game [as in Beta] or because it's precisely the opposite of it [Delta], and thus a vulnerability.

It might also do other gammas some good to consider other possible interpretations of the situation before sounding the hierarchical alarm.

That's a very good point, actually.

[dbmmama]

That's a very good point, actually.

what exactly is a good point? i'm trying to figure this out, but coming up a bit short...

[Sirena]

The Juju-niffweed thing might illustrate general Democracy versus Aristocracy.

niffweed probably understands his own vitriol as attacking a person's argumentation, or more specifically their ability to reflect the reality of a situation. Is he actually putting down their general intelligence, educational pedigree, or some other "endowment"? Perhaps not so much. I can imagine niffweed calling lots of academically-accomplished "intellectuals" moronic, too, if he doesn't value their output.

Aristocratic quadras seem more sensitive to terms _potentially judging their "endowments" [and prone to interpreting them as that potentiality] Either because hierarchal authority is their own game [as in Beta] or because it's precisely the opposite of it [Delta], and thus a vulnerability.

That said, I think it's quite possible Juju's self-typing is correct and he was using his Role and 8th function against what might have been perceived as "fighting dirty" already. Regardless, if niffweed wants to avoid any such put-downs, he should probably trade the hamfisted one-liners for something more constructive and precise. It might also do other gammas some good to consider other possible interpretations of the situation before sounding the hierarchical alarm.

+100!

[xyz]

Wait, I thought this was about Winterpark, why am I being put on here?

Either way, I don't really have much to say on this. Not like what I say is gonna be paid much attention, anyway:

The people who i've actually talked to 1 on 1, seem to think I'm SLI. Everyone else has 2 or 3 different choices.

I agree with Ruth: Quit associating anything social with Fe

And lastly, I'm positive i'm SLI, but if I had to make a second best fit type, I'd say SEI would work.

Niffweed, the only thing I remember telling you is you're too "in your head". Not that that's necesarrily a bad thing, but when you ignore other people's inputs and kind of cross your arms and say "nope. i've made up my mind", you're not really trying to discuss things. And name calling is just stupid.

[Sirena]

She has an alias. The police are probably looking for her in five states.

hehehe, leave it to an SLI.

Moron: part of a momenclature used to classify different grades of mental deficiency, specifically categorising those with an IQ of 50-69.

A terminology which is dropping out of psychology technical literature, due to lack of consistency in usage, not to mention the distinctly unfavourable connotations it has in common language.

Thanks, Te-man!

Wait, I thought this was about Winterpark, why am I being put on here?

Either way, I don't really have much to say on this. Not like what I say is gonna be paid much attention, anyway:

The people who i've actually talked to 1 on 1, seem to think I'm SLI. Everyone else has 2 or 3 different choices.

I agree with Ruth: Quit associating anything social with Fe

And lastly, I'm positive i'm SLI, but if I had to make a second best fit type, I'd say SEI would work.

Niffweed, the only thing I remember telling you is you're too "in your head". Not that that's necesarrily a bad thing, but when you ignore other people's inputs and kind of cross your arms and say "nope. i've made up my mind", you're not really trying to discuss things. And name calling is just stupid.

<3

[Park]

what exactly is a good point? i'm trying to figure this out, but coming up a bit short...

To consider what ifmd95 said. His interpretation of the situation (given from his point of view) makes sense. And I agree with him that other possible interpretations should be considered, despite the fact that I think Expat's reaction was in place.

[dbmmama]

To consider what ifmd95 said. His interpretation of the situation (given from his point of view) makes sense. And I agree with him that other possible interpretations should be considered.

that part i understood. what i'm looking to understand better is how what he said pertains exactly to the difference between beta aristocrtic vs delta vs alpha dem and gamma dem....i'm confused on the differences.