Which types are most and least likely to be like this

[Joy]

Our mom's both attended the same "how to be a mom school" I think Joy. Both what you left in, and most of the stuff you erased out were things my mom would and did do also. She's also excessively blunt. But they are very different in other ways. It was the influence of the strict authoritarian religious group we were in I believe that led to her wacky control problems and odd child-rearing habits. I do think my mom is Se leading, but I don't think she would have been the same without that influence. She's not the same now without it.

While I agree that she may not have been as bad without it, I'm confident that she still would have been authoritarian. And while she is different now, Peter mentioned (and I agree) that if she were responsible for raising young children now she'd probably be pretty much exactly the same way again. I would hope that she would be more reasonable about punishments and about things like smacking kids if they stir while they're trying to go to sleep (I wonder if this is why I have insomnia? ) and that sort of thing, but she'd still be just as strict and she'd still be heavily focused on obedience and hierarchy.

I deleted the stuff I deleted because I didn't want to turn this into Joy's topic to whine in. I'm sure there are many people here who experienced real trauma at the hands of their caregivers, and the stuff my mom did, though extreme, wasn't really that bad. My parents were the best parents they knew how to be. They always did what they thought was right, no matter how much they had to sacrifice or how difficult it was for them. Both of them were raised by alcoholics, so their religious beliefs were all they had to go on. (My mom would occasionally say stuff along the lines of "you think this is bad? how would you like to *insert something from her childhood here*?" Even when I was young I knew enough to say "well your mom was wrong, too". )

Anyways, I love and appreciate my parents. I feel bad when I make type threads about them because when I describe my mom it's difficult for me not to just list a bunch of negatives. Last time I asked my brother to read what I had posted, and he said it was very accurate (even though Peter didn't think it was). Maybe I should try to list a few positive traits? I think I will.

you have a nice-looking family Joy! And I do see the resemblance also. Your dad is clearly IP. Gosh, he reminds me of my own dad the way you describe him and even his photo.

haha, thanks! What type do you think your dad is?

[eunice]

Your mom looks young.

[Joy]

Positive traits about Person A:

• Dedicated
• Hardworking
• Sincere
• Cheerful
• Not prone to emotional fits or rage
• Open
• Caring
• Jokes and laughs a lot (loudly)
• Honest (to a fault)
• Generous (in tithing and with food, at least)
• Shows genuine interest in others (though she does tend to be unaware of boundaries and asks questions that are too personal or bring up uncomfortable subjects without being aware of it)

Okay, now I'm starting to attach negatives to the positives... I should stop.

[Joy]

Your mom looks young.

She is young. She had me when she was 18. She's 45 and my dad just turned 54.

[machintruc]

Person A is a ******-like -+0 EIE, and Person B is +-- SEI.

[Joy]

Brain chemicals? This is the easy part.

Person B does not have high serotonin. On the contrary, his serotonin levels are quite low. He's been a lot better since he's been on medication (past decade or so?), but he still has low serotonin. He has moderate levels of norepinephrine and low levels of dopamine. (Also, see post #3.)

Person A clearly has high serotonin, moderate to high norepinephrine, and high dopamine. (I think she's probably an enneagram 7, fwiw. It's my best guess anyways. I'm certain about the serotonin and dopamine though. I'm also certain about person B's levels of serotonin and dopamine.)

[redbaron]

What type do you think your dad is?

95% sure he's SEI with a strong strong Fe subtype. There's a small possibility he could be IEI though. He has a high need for attention and sometimes lives in his head. Still, I really do think he's SEI.

[Joy]

When it's difficult to spot someone's dominant function, I tend to think of it in terms of which do you think he needs or would appreciate more, Ne or Se?

With my Dad, Se dual seeking makes sense. I think he's got Ne pretty well covered on his own. He does tend to have Si related hobbies (like making a hover craft, for example) and he's a tool and die maker by trade, but I'm not confident that he has strong Si.

I cannot see my Mom needing a Se dominant dual though (in response to Peter's ILI suggestion for her). While she may be "bad at" Se (in a way) and Si (more so than Se), she is confident in these areas. I think a Ne role makes sense for her too because she's always like "what if this or that happens" and it's the most unlikely shit. She's worse than someone with a Ne PoLR, who worries about that sort of thing but at least listens to listen when you explain what will most likely happen and why. I could see how someone with Ne for their ignoring (7th) function could help her with this. (I don't know how my Dad handles it though, usually when she gets like that and I'm around I'm the one who talks to her about it. When the suggestions become too ridiculous I'm like "I don't know, Mom. What if a cow falls out of the sky and lands on your head?" )

[redbaron]

When the suggestions become too ridiculous I'm like "I don't know, Mom. What if a cow falls out of the sky and lands on your head?"

[Joy]

You're mom sounds cute. ^_^

I'm used to that because my EIE dad is just like that, and he loves to talk about it.

Hmm...I never thought of Ne role this way. Could be because my E8 SLE tends to score very low neuroticism--probably has low/average norepinephrin. He's never crazy like her, but sometimes he will catch me off guard with this crazy thing he's made plans for, because that's how he thinks things will happen. And I am just like, "Um, that's not going to happen," and it seems obvious to me, even practical, that it won't. So I suppose that's strong Ne checking a Ne role.

If it's about possibilities, it's more likely related to Ne. If it's about probabilities, it's more likely related to Ni. (Oversimplified, but generally not a bad way to differentiate between the two.)

I think EIE's can be like this sometimes due to negativism, conscious Ni, and (more so) a Te role. (Each type's brand of "what if" is a little different, I think.)

I don't generally try to tell SLE's that they should do something, so I don't know how they typically respond.

LSI's are just like ESI's in this regard, except that they're positivists so it's more natural for them to envision a desirable outcome.

I wonder if that would help to explain her off as a Ne PoLR rather than a Ne role? Because my SLE has usually already planned/done the thing when you find out about it, rather than him worrying about it outloud. However, it could just be a difference in E type.

EP makes more sense for her than IJ, even if she's not quite as impulsive as some EP types. Also, the types of things she'd be talking about would be more related to something I'm telling her that she should do, not something I'm telling her she shouldn't.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I would very much say Delta LSE/EII dual pairs.

[Joy]

It's not completely out of the question.

[machintruc]

my E8 SLE tends to score very low neuroticism

wtf

[Joy]

What do you think of these neurotransmitter levels, machintruc?

Brain chemicals? This is the easy part.

Person B does not have high serotonin. On the contrary, his serotonin levels are quite low. He's been a lot better since he's been on medication (past decade or so?), but he still has low serotonin. He has moderate levels of norepinephrine and low levels of dopamine. (Also, see post #3.)

Person A clearly has high serotonin, moderate to high norepinephrine, and high dopamine. (I think she's probably an enneagram 7, fwiw. It's my best guess anyways. I'm certain about the serotonin and dopamine though. I'm also certain about person B's levels of serotonin and dopamine.)

[machintruc]

What do you think of these neurotransmitter levels, machintruc?

I think, Person B's behaviour is more like S+D-, because being such a fucked up delicate wimp is pretty much like S+D-, or possibly very sick S0D-'s. Never seen any S-D- who actually had this kind of behaviour. You know, being in an bad mood isn't exactly the same thing has having a low serotonin level. S- people don't really feel that bad, even if others may think so.

But, I agree with you for Person A being S+D+.

[Joy]

He's not generally aggressive, but he has a chronically low sense of wellbeing (more so in the past than now). Do you have descriptions of the different serotonin levels (aside from the ones at http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp)?

Anyways, if I were to be more flexible about possibilities for them, I'd say:

Person A: serotonin med or high, norepinephrine med or high, dopamine med or high

Person B: serotonin low or med, norepinephrine medium-ish, dopamine low to med

[machintruc]

He's not generally aggressive, but he has a chronically low sense of wellbeing (more so in the past than now). Do you have descriptions of the different serotonin levels (aside from the ones at http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp)?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=17884 (playful)
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=18080 (more serious, but management-oriented and lacks N-phigroups)