Judging People - Fi vs Fe

[Expat]

This thread has contained more useful information than most recent threads.

I agree with BLauritson's post.

excellent example of why ILEs cannot redeem themselves around an ESI. because they focus on every single little social error they see the ILE as commiting....even if ILE didn't really mean it.

take a look at the stratiyevskaya description of ILE...it's totally fucking unrelenting.

You tend to refer it to "social errors", and I disagree with that, or at least it's necessary to define what is meant by "social". Some people would say that a "social error" is, for instance, bad table manners, or an inclination to drink just a bit too much in any social occasion and behave in a slightly embarrassing, but harmless, way; or doing things like abruptly interrupting others, etc. These are the kind of "social errors" ESIs generally dont' care much about.

What they do care about, and are indeed "unrelenting", and I have observed this with both SLEs and ILEs, are "loyalty errors". For instance, if someone repeats in public what the ESI told in confidence. In that case, yes, "every little loyalty error" is stored and added to the Fi understanding of the person.

I can relate to the PM stuff. For those I feel a strong bond with (despite me not showing my feelings and being afraid to stain those feelings by presenting them to the world), I can see myself, in my mind, making a noble sacrifice, Se style, for the sake of the one who I have that attachment towards. I skimmed over it at first, but it makes a lot of sense.

"how can you judge something that is always changing"? I found that statement interesting as Fe seems to be about impressions one gets from someone upon interaction and one day the impression can be negative but provided a change on another day, the impression can totally change. Maybe.

I think Fi takes into account how someone previously has acted and makes note of a person's ethical trend, making them more liable to skepticism that a person has truly changed based on the current impression. Like, if someone I know is typically good-willed and is having an asshole or bitch day, I recognize that something is off in this person's life and I'm concerned about the person, I guess, though I choose to butt out of their business. If someone is usually an asshat and has typically expressed himself in ways that violates my code of ethics (if I think they are universal ethics versus ethics that apply particularly to me because of a religious or philosophical standing), I may never trust the person fully, no matter how nice they act towards me. I'll always be hesitant in dealing with this person and be wondering if there are ulterior motives involved. I greatly distrust surface impressions though if they do try to act cordially with me, I won't act like a jerk to them. Even if they act otherwise, I'll ignore them or still try to be cordial in order to protect my own dignity (which I hold as extremely precious, more so than most anything, I'll admit.).

Yep.

That's pretty clever description. As it makes it seem like Fe works with impressions just like Te works with objective information. And Fi works with relations just like Ti works with logical constructs. The extroverted functions are dynamic and ever changing and introverted functions are static and resist change. They just work in different realms of information. Actually this is pretty obvious but I never thought about it this way before.

Yes I think that's a good way of putting it. Ti uses Te information to "refine" itself - an expression that Ti-valuers often use, ime, since they dislike the idea that they changed their conclusions totally - but it's important that the "core" remains, so "building" on it . And the same for Fi with Fe.

[Blaze]

@expat: i think we are probably defining social errors differently. i didn't mean table manners. i meant Fi polr type of errors, which i think has to do more with boundaries than miss manners.

[Expat]

@expat: i think we are probably defining social errors differently. i didn't mean table manners. i meant Fi polr type of errors, which i think has to do more with boundaries than miss manners.

I thought as much, but I thought it was important to make it clear.

[Slacker]

I like the image of Fi being like scales, with positives on one side and negatives on the other. That is pretty accurate in my experience. And the part about Se getting involved by needing to take action, well with weak Se what I do is I just back away and cut off contact with someone. I've really hurt some feelings with that but I can't seem to confront people (weak Se) and I am not comfortable maintaining a relationship once those scales get too off-balance, so I'm left with just disappearing. I can see the description of having to take action when someone unbalances the scales in my ISFj brother. He HAS to say SOMETHING.

It seems like people with strong Fe can have these big blow-out arguments and then be best friends again the next day. For me, if someone gets that upset at me and I get that upset at them, that's generally it.

[Sirena]

I like the image of Fi being like scales, with positives on one side and negatives on the other. That is pretty accurate in my experience. And the part about Se getting involved by needing to take action, well with weak Se what I do is I just back away and cut off contact with someone. I've really hurt some feelings with that but I can't seem to confront people (weak Se) and I am not comfortable maintaining a relationship once those scales get too off-balance, so I'm left with just disappearing. I can see the description of having to take action when someone unbalances the scales in my ISFj brother. He HAS to say SOMETHING.

It seems like people with strong Fe can have these big blow-out arguments and then be best friends again the next day. For me, if someone gets that upset at me and I get that upset at them, that's generally it.

I find myself completely relating to most of the things you say. This entire post is true of me too. In regards to the bolded part, I also find that these sorts of explosive arguments affect the core of a relationshp for me. It baffles me how some people are able to go through their lives calling each other names and yelling and somehow consider it normal. They're able to go back to things the way they were without it having affected the relationship itself. Someone blowing up at me this way is definitely a huge red flag and more than enough reason for me to leave the relationship. I can't imagine ever being able to be friends or date someone who communicates in that way.

[Sirena]

People aren't understanding me. It isn't about lashing out. I'm one of the moodiest people on the planet - I have no place to throw stones in that regard and that's not the issue. It's about an interaction style. It seems from my perspective like Fe-valuing people can say what to my ears sound like hurtful comments and sound really upset with each other, but they aren't really upset with each other at all. Or at least it isn't a real issue - like some long-term problem. They can blow up at each other, and to me it will sound like a huge fight, but then the next day they're still great friends. It's an way of interacting that makes me uncomfortable. If I blow up at someone, it'll take some work before I hang out with them again. And I do blow up at people. And if someone blows up at me, it takes work for me to feel comfortable around them again. I can't just be friendly the next day.

This is also how I feel. I'm not saying I'm incapable of blowing up, but the times it does happen, I can't help but see it as something "wrong" that could potentially affect the relationship. I see it as a mistake, something that shouldn't have happened. I don't think I'll ever be able to see this kind of interaction as something normal. That was my point. My ESE mother, on the other hand, will blow up at me...say things that are hurtful to me then turn around 5 minutes later as if nothing had happened. That's always bothered me.

I've been thinking about what you said here for some days. While this is definitely true for the person I am now, I actually used to blow up badly during my teens (mother) and also when quarreling with my EIE ex-boyfriend (he encouraged it even). Because of this and because of your words above, I actually felt I had to rethink my type, as I definitely displayed a lot of thunder and lightning in those days when I felt hurt. I don't react like that anymore, and I honestly didn't like it. I felt completely drained afterwards, I could feel drained for days after a blow out.

I have been this way too, primarily in my teens and in past relationships, where lots of Fe was thrown at me and encouraged. I hated it this so much though. It always made me feel unhealthy and imbalanced. Since then, I have realized that at least for *me*, that isn't a healthy state to be in and have taken steps to prevent from being in similar situations again. A few recent episodes have helped to confirm how tense and unstable this type of communication makes me feel and how much I don't want that in my life. Draining is the right word for it. I am definitely starting to realize that a patient and laid back partner is key. I already process things so emotionally, that I need someone that can give me that calm stability and groundedness.

[Logos]

You should get rid of your ESE mother. You are welcome to use any means. I am not one to cramp or dictate a person's styles. Do the world a favor and rid the world of one less irrational ESE.

[Slacker]

I agree to this, but then I'm getting problems seeing how this relates to the "Fi-scales".

It doesn't. Just a tangent.

[Expat]

Yeah that's pretty much that way for me, too. I don't want to deal with emotional explosions. It makes me wonder about when they'll strike next.

[Sirena]

Yeah that's pretty much that way for me, too. I don't want to deal with emotional explosions. It makes me wonder about when they'll strike next.

Definitely makes me very tense to be around a person like this, like they're a ticking time bomb that could go off at any minute.

[Logos]

These "emotional explosions" associated with Fe are not as common as it is perpetuated on the boards. Usually frequent "emotional explosions" are signs of already negative relationships.