Wash seems more IEE, so I kind of imagined Zoe as SLI.
Wash seems more IEE, so I kind of imagined Zoe as SLI.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
The more I think about it, the more I think of Simon as a better fit with LII.
In regards to Zoe, how do you interpret this scene (beginning at 5:10)
Great scene!
I think it's a clear interaction between an ethical and logical type. Mal is operating on practicals, especially with regards to dumping the payload. Zoe understands this, but still wants to give the ethical side of things a good airing. How this translates to Socionics, once again I don't know for sure, but I would bet Fi is involved.
SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype
the way I was interpretting it is that Mal is focused on ethics. He cares about his crew, which is his family, who he is extremely loyal to. He does care about people in general and he did shoot that guy to spare him the suffering of what the reavers would have done to him... and his actions were not without sympathy. However, from his point of view, he's looking out for "his people" who he will make all manner of sacrifice for, but not for someone he doesn't know who isn't one of his people and isn't in his family. His people/family needs the money from the raid because Mal knows that down the line they're going to have a harder and harder time getting paid, especially hauling Simon and River around. In his mind they can't afford to not get that money. I see Mal's take as Gamma Fi and consistent with Gamma quadra values, as I'm thinking of them at present.
Zoe however was noticibly bothered by this... she also views the rest of them as family and is extremely loyal to the lot of them and will perform all manner of sacrifice for them. And she can't logically disagree with any particular point of Mal's actions. She knows he's "right" and they needed the money. But the guy was begging to be brought along, and they chose the money over him, a human being... For some reason I see Zoe's reaction as that of an Fe valuer. This is weak. But anyway. This doesn't say much else about her. I also just see Se/Ni valuing. But don't know how to explain it...
Mal: ESTj
Jayne: ESTp
River: INTp
Simon: INTj
Kaylee: ESFj
Book: INFj
Inara: ISFj
Wash: ENFj
Zoe: ISTj
All in.
For me, one of the biggest arguments in favour of the SLI/IEE typing for Zoe and Wash is that they both get along much better with Mal than with Jayne. In fact, Mal, Zoe, and Wash kind of form the "core" of the crew. It would make sense if they were members of Mal's quadra, not Jayne's.Originally Posted by labcoat
LSI/EIE is still my backup typing, though.
Quaero Veritas.
Is Mal not an SEE? He seems to be a clear Han Solo (another SEE).
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Do you share Loki's view, then?
I agree he cares about his crew, but if I recall correctly, he also has no problem with putting them in the midst of danger. And is his shunning of Simon and River Fi-derived, or based on the logical merits of spending resources on people who are threatening his self-interest? Note that he only keeps (or appears to) Simon around as a doctor. Fi-exclusion, or Te-necessity?
SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype
I think he has some issues with Simon to say the least, and has a soft spot for River, actually sort of for Simon as well because he's so "green." But he 'shuns' them because they're not in his "family" group. He is not as loyal to them as he is to the others who he has been with far longer and knows much better. So I would see it more as "Fi-exclusion"... but SEE also values Te... which makes sense with the practical purposes part of it. I see part of the tendency to get in risky situations just as he's a somewhat impulsive risk taker. Sometimes he acts before he thinks.
I think that a lot of his actions involve facing the "harsh reality" of situations and dealing with them... there usually isn't a perfect way to deal with them. The point is he's a 'looks out for "me and mine"' sort and Simon and River aren't quite in that category... they're only about half way in, and at least at the beginning of Serenity he could still easily be rid of them... as long as he doesn't feel (or can deny he feels) much of a connection with them.
For some reason, although his behavior isn't consistent per se, his ethics do seem pretty consistent to me.
What type would you see him as FMH?
Logical extrovert at a superficial glance. Though I think you're making a good case for an ethical type. "Me and mine" is a classic quote for him. Maybe SEE? Unfortunately, I've never developed a feel for SEEs.
SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype
Part of the problem with Simon and River is that they are outside of Mal's world which represents a barrier of sorts he has to overcome. They were from the heartlands of the Alliance and were mostly Alliance supporters. They are rich upper-class and Mal is a rural outsider and Independent. Furthermore, I do not think that Mal fully trusts them because he is not sure if they are there of their own choice. Everyone else is part of the crew because of their own choice, but Simon and River are primarily there because they are on the run, so this keeps Mal from being able to completely think of them as family as opposed to temporary guests. Simon and Mal have a great deal of mutual respect and a certain amount of attachment to each other, but they each have their conflicts of interest that cause them to butt heads. Simon's priority has been River's safety whereas for Mal it is self-preservation and that of the crew.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
There's no way Harrison Ford is an ESFp, so typing Solo as ESFp is highly dubious and so is using him as a benchmark for ESFphood.Is Mal not an SEE? He seems to be a clear Han Solo (another SEE).
Ford is most likely an ISTp, in which case equating him to Fillion makes a good case for a delta ST typing.
You can't type characters based on the actors that portray them. All the actor is doing is reading lines from a script and trying to make them real. It's the character's thoughts, words and actions that you can type. Which shouldn't be very difficult -- it just means that VI is out for fictional characters.
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
If a character doesn't match the type of it's actor, it is at best a poor quality representation of the type. That is all.
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