Peopl who think I'm ILE

[Gilly]

I'm really not sure what to make of my temperament; the best I can describe it would be relaxed with bursts or spells of releasing internal tension/energy.

[misutii]

Well, it demonstrates my obsession with devotion, devoting myself to a cause, giving myself over to it fully. Anything I do, I do all the way; if I take up a flag, I bear it to the bitter end, unless something causes me to become bitterly disenchanted with it (betrayal from within, inconsistency, being proven totally wrong). I believe it was Auvi who equated "Victimhood" as a desire for a kind of devotion, a desire to devote oneself:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...7&postcount=71

You keep matching your own argument with things others have written that agree with it. You do this in a very logical and calculated manner (making sure your argument is foolproof). It is like writing an essay in university, you look for points from sources that will support your thesis. This exemplifies to me. If you want to prove you are EIE to me then I would prefer the use of actual socionics litterature. Also if Gulenko's erotic attitudes are a telling point then if you'd be so kind as to relatively compare why you think yourself a "victim" type rather than an "infantile" type then, using the original article or wikisocion information, I would appreciate this effort.

I don't feel that for a person, but I sure feel it for a "cause," something that will allow me to lead change in the world. I want to fucking be a revolutionary, I want to stir shit up, I want to be a part of something big...I dunno, whatever.

I think I exhibit Fe+Ni in my behavior in these ways:

-Insane tirades of crazy, zany expression of pent-up emotional tension (I HAVE to release this energy to feel comfortable; it's like there's this electricity inside me that just has to be let out, or it gets repressed, and I, in turn, get DEpressed )
-Being focused on people's reactions to me
-Enjoying scaring, surprising, shocking, amazing, wowing people; seeing how the behave when put in an awkward or new situation that they might not know how to behave in
-Being shameless about drawing attention to myself just for the sake of being crazy (Hidden Agenda is called "hidden" for a reason, I'm guessing...I don't think it's hidden whatsoever in my case )
-Generally Romantic attitude towards life: attempting to see the meaning in everything, desiring some kind of special significance, unabashed desire for some kind of calling or purpose,
-Obsession with nostalgia, uncovering my own personal history
-Strength in helping people with their own problems: comparing the situations and reactions of people in a scenario to my own compendium of experiences, those I have heard about, and those I have helped others with, and drawing it all together to try to see how the aspects of this person's situation relate to those I am familiar with so that I can offer relevant advice...this isn't really a conscious process; ie, I don't think "Ok, is this more like Colin's problems, or Don's problems...ok, this is what they should do," but more something I've noticed myself doing as a method of helping someone figure out "where to go" from wherever they are. It's almost like I tap into this vat of knowledge and experience of how to deal with certain situations and pull out from the muck whatever seems relevant to this person's situation.

I'm sure I could go on...feel free to comment.

I don't know where to start and am confused. Just place a or beside each point so show what function your ascribing each to, and I'll try to answer them individually.

Why, because I don't try to spread it to everyone on the forum? And you DID try to say my cause wasn't "Beta enough" by talking all that garbage about the environment, Marxism, etc.

No I didn't say your cause wan't "Beta enough", you placed those words in my mouth. You placed those words in my mouth for your own reasons. Socionically speaking you reacted negatively to my . As is typical of Alphas they find the use of Ni to be judgmental and cold. They don't value it. You don't value it. Ni has to do with looking for tendencies, for patterns, over time. I made note of a tendency, a pattern, in regards to Beta causes. You interpreted it as me making an absolute statement.

Don't go back on yourself. You said "these are Beta causes:" and I directly showed you that I have been involved in a couple of those exact causes Personally I don't think it has anything to do with being Beta, but it's sure as hell funny to watch you flip-flop and try to state outlandish reasons for me not being Beta NF.

Again, all I stated is that those were examples of Beta causes. I came up with them quickly and meant them to be taken merely as examples. Rather than looking for the logical loopholes in what I say you ought to examine actual socionics litterature, which we can both agree, provides a superor insight into type than you or I. Your avid fascination with pointing out the logical inconsistencies in things I've written is once again an example you choosing to use Ti to discredit something I've written. Why would you do that? Because it's logically, in your mind, the easiest way to gain victory. And winning this argument seems like your goal here. You don't seem interested in the truth if accepting the truth means losing an "argument", heaven forbid the sky would fall, the crops would burn, and we'd all starve during the winter.

Blah blah blah...when have you ever responded in a positive way to anything I've said? You have never demonstrated anything but disdain or contempt for me, and to be honest, it doesn't bother me much,

I assure you that you've never felt my contempt nor my disdain. The few people who ever have have been cut out of my life PERMANENTLY, if I felt contempt or disdain towards you then I wouldn't spend time discussing anything with you because I wouldn't care, I WOULDN'T GIVE A SHIT, I'd go out of my way to avoid you, to ignore you, and I would NEVER forgive you for whatever transgression you committed that would have made me view you with such contempt or disdain in the first place BECAUSE THAT is what suffering someone's CONTEMPT/DISDAIN entails.

So please enlighten me on what it was I did that symbolizes my contempt or disdain towards you in your eyes? Because I don't respond positively to you when I disagree with you it means that I HATE you? So we are enemies if we disagree with each other on ANYTHING? So if I was to falsely agree with you, to lie to your face for the sake of your vanity, I would be a better person? If you truly think that I feel contempt or disdain towards you THEN PUT ME ON IGNORE AND DON'T RESPOND TO ANYTHING I SAY AGAIN.

I am spending my time responding to this topic because you created it, personally when I see someone create thread for discussion I assume that they wish to discuss something with others, whether they agree or disagree. All I have to offer is my time and thoughts so if you consider everything I write to be bullshit then please tell me now and I'll never waste your time again.

[Gilly]

You keep matching your own argument with things others have written that agree with it. You do this in a very logical and calculated manner (making sure your argument is foolproof). It is like writing an essay in university, you look for points from sources that will support your thesis. This exemplifies to me. If you want to prove you are EIE to me then I would prefer the use of actual socionics litterature. Also if Gulenko's erotic attitudes are a telling point then if you'd be so kind as to relatively compare why you think yourself a "victim" type rather than an "infantile" type then, using the original article or wikisocion information, I would appreciate this effort.

I don't see how any of this points to Ti creative any more than it does Ti valuing, and I'm not entirely confident it's even a good example of that. In fact, it seems, more than anything, that I'm relying on the Ti of others rather than substantiating my own arguments with theoretical analysis, doesn't it?

I don't know where to start and am confused. Just place a or beside each point so show what function your ascribing each to, and I'll try to answer them individually.

I think they all have to do with the combination of Fe and Ni, to be honest.

No I didn't say your cause wan't "Beta enough", you placed those words in my mouth. You placed those words in my mouth for your own reasons. Socionically speaking you reacted negatively to my . As is typical of Alphas they find the use of Ni to be judgmental and cold. They don't value it. You don't value it. Ni has to do with looking for tendencies, for patterns, over time. I made note of a tendency, a pattern, in regards to Beta causes. You interpreted it as me making an absolute statement.

I'm not sure I see how this is related to Ni, or how it indicates at all that I don't value it. And no, I didn't interpret it as an "absolute statement;" I just pointed out that I was no exception to the things that you mentioned, and stated that, compared to other things I've displayed, those "causes" are relatively insignificant to my Beta-ness.

Again, all I stated is that those were examples of Beta causes. I came up with them quickly and meant them to be taken merely as examples. Rather than looking for the logical loopholes in what I say you ought to examine actual socionics litterature, which we can both agree, provides a superor insight into type than you or I. Your avid fascination with pointing out the logical inconsistencies in things I've written is once again an example you choosing to use Ti to discredit something I've written. Why would you do that? Because it's logically, in your mind, the easiest way to gain victory. And winning this argument seems like your goal here. You don't seem interested in the truth if accepting the truth means losing an "argument", heaven forbid the sky would fall, the crops would burn, and we'd all starve during the winter.

Again, I don't see the case for Ti creative any more than general Ti valuing. I desire consistency. And I have examined LOTS of socionics literature so don't try to play that one on me; I actually reference it quite a lot, if you read more of my posts.

I assure you that you've never felt my contempt nor my disdain. The few people who ever have have been cut out of my life PERMANENTLY, if I felt contempt or disdain towards you then I wouldn't spend time discussing anything with you because I wouldn't care, I WOULDN'T GIVE A SHIT, I'd go out of my way to avoid you, to ignore you, and I would NEVER forgive you for whatever transgression you committed that would have made me view you with such contempt or disdain in the first place BECAUSE THAT is what suffering someone's CONTEMPT/DISDAIN entails.

God forbid I incur the WRATH of mitsuii

So please enlighten me on what it was I did that symbolizes my contempt or disdain towards you in your eyes? Because I don't respond positively to you when I disagree with you it means that I HATE you? So we are enemies if we disagree with each other on ANYTHING? So if I was to falsely agree with you, to lie to your face for the sake of your vanity, I would be a better person? If you truly think that I feel contempt or disdain towards you THEN PUT ME ON IGNORE AND DON'T RESPOND TO ANYTHING I SAY AGAIN.

It has nothing to do with not responding to me in an obviously positive way. Expat doesn't do that. Nor does Salawa, or Joy, or implied. I get along fine with all of them. I just pick up arrogance and a sardonic tinge in most of what you say, and I think it's pretentious, and it seems to indicate that you've got more invested in replying to me than just stating your opinion.

And yes, I know I'm arrogant too, don't try to spin that on me I'm just annoyed by the tone you tend to take, and to be honest I only really read what you write when it's a response to something I write, so I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and not assuming that you just have a generally bad attitude

I am spending my time responding to this topic because you created it, personally when I see someone create thread for discussion I assume that they wish to discuss something with others, whether they agree or disagree. All I have to offer is my time and thoughts so if you consider everything I write to be bullshit then please tell me now and I'll never waste your time again.

I don't necessarily consider everything you say bullshit before I read it; I like to give everyone a chance. You just haven't really delivered much substance so far.

[misutii]

I don't see how any of this points to Ti creative any more than it does Ti valuing, and I'm not entirely confident it's even a good example of that. In fact, it seems, more than anything, that I'm relying on the Ti of others rather than substantiating my own arguments with theoretical analysis, doesn't it?

That doesn't make any sense. You've created a logical system and are selectively choosing information to support it.

I think they all have to do with the combination of Fe and Ni, to be honest.

Of course they do

I'm not sure I see how this is related to Ni, or how it indicates at all that I don't value it. And no, I didn't interpret it as an "absolute statement;" I just pointed out that I was no exception to the things that you mentioned, and stated that, compared to other things I've displayed, those "causes" are relatively insignificant to my Beta-ness.

You don't seem to see how anything is related to Ni, or how socionics relates to how each individual expresses information, or to how each individual interprets information, hence you've mistyped yourself

Again, I don't see the case for Ti creative any more than general Ti valuing. I desire consistency. And I have examined LOTS of socionics literature so don't try to play that one on me; I actually reference it quite a lot, if you read more of my posts.

Yes, and yet you've still failed to convince so many here of your type you're obviously doing something incorrectly

It has nothing to do with not responding to me in an obviously positive way. Expat doesn't do that. Nor does Salawa, or Joy, or implied. I get along fine with all of them. I just pick up arrogance and a sardonic tinge in most of what you say, and I think it's pretentious, and it seems to indicate that you've got more invested in replying to me than just stating your opinion.

Sardonic is good . I suppose I can come off as arrogant to someone when I'm convinced I'm right. I tend to have strong opinions and people that have strong opinions which differ from mine seem quick to feel threatened. What I have invested is that if you were to be EIE then my understanding of socionics is fucked up and needs to be overhauled. So for you to repeatedly even talk of your "Beta-ness" seems ridiculous to me as no matter how I challenge you you consistently don't seem able to produce that one piece of brilliance that could convince me that my understanding of socionics is fucked up and needs to be overhauled.

From what I can tell all you've succeeded in convincing most people is that you're capable of excessive attention-whoring and treat your socionics type as the flavour of the week. Your concept of "Beta" is as vague as that of a frat boy's conception of the Greek Alphabet.

I don't necessarily consider everything you say bullshit before I read it; I like to give everyone a chance. You just haven't really delivered much substance so far.

Well it's generally difficult to deliver anything of substance to someone that hasn't even substantiated himself (oh no that's the sardonic tinge isn't it? my bad).

[Gilly]

That doesn't make any sense. You've created a logical system and are selectively choosing information to support it.

Right. So how does that point to Ti creative any more than Ti valuing in general? What don't you understand about how broad of an assumption you're making?

You don't seem to see how anything is related to Ni, or how socionics relates to how each individual expresses information, or to how each individual interprets information, hence you've mistyped yourself

Wrong. I don't see how you think what happened is indicative of devalued Ni, and I asked you to explain, to which you reply with this nonsensical borderline ad hominem trash. I'm not impressed.

Yes, and yet you've still failed to convince so many here of your type you're obviously doing something incorrectly

Irrelevant. Mostly the people whose opinions I already respect happen to agree with me, or at least don't require "convincing." Maybe you should read this thread more carefully.

Sardonic is good . I suppose I can come off as arrogant to someone when I'm convinced I'm right. I tend to have strong opinions and people that have strong opinions which differ from mine seem quick to feel threatened. What I have invested is that if you were to be EIE then my understanding of socionics is fucked up and needs to be overhauled. So for you to repeatedly even talk of your "Beta-ness" seems ridiculous to me as no matter how I challenge you you consistently don't seem able to produce that one piece of brilliance that could convince me that my understanding of socionics is fucked up and needs to be overhauled.

From what I can tell all you've succeeded in convincing most people is that you're capable of excessive attention-whoring and treat your socionics type as the flavour of the week. Your concept of "Beta" is as vague as that of a frat boy's conception of the Greek Alphabet.

*mega yawn*

Well it's generally difficult to deliver anything of substance to someone that hasn't even substantiated himself (oh no that's the sardonic tinge isn't it? my bad).

Am I required to substantiate myself to you all of a sudden? Did you ever even ask me to? This is you coming into my thread, wherein I am questioning people about what they think of my type. And, to boot, I have given substantiation, which you wish to befuddle by asking me to "clarify" the Socionics interpretation of things that, if you understood the functions whatsoever, the relevance of which should be somewhat obvious.

You can leave now.

[Gilly]

*farts audibly*

[Gilly]

thx

[misutii]

Irrelevant. Mostly the people whose opinions I already respect happen to agree with me, or at least don't require "convincing." Maybe you should read this thread more carefully.

That's what's irrelevent. That people who's opinions you respect agree with you so you're right? That's pathetic, you don't know shit. What? 3 people have agreed with you? I've read the thread and it mostly consists of people with sense indirectly tell you to SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, AND KNOW YOUR ROLE

Am I required to substantiate myself to you all of a sudden? Did you ever even ask me to? This is you coming into my thread, wherein I am questioning people about what they think of my type. And, to boot, I have given substantiation, which you wish to befuddle by asking me to "clarify" the Socionics interpretation of things that, if you understood the functions whatsoever, the relevance of which should be somewhat obvious.

You can leave now.

You're required to substantiate yourself to yourself. I'm not going anywhere, it's going to be YOU that's going to leave this thread and in the meantime I'm just going stick pins into your bloated ego until it explodes like rotten chunks of milk all over your face.

I think the most apparent differences are that ILEs tend to be more nonserious, lighthearted, and openly "childlike," whereas Beta NFs can also be these, perhaps even moreso, but are more prone than ILEs to swing into emotional "doldrum" territory and bouts self-absorption, angst, etc; I think the equivalent of this for ILEs would be more like emotional "monotony," simply feeling unexcited, neutral, or bored. Beta NFs have more apparent high highs and low lows, whereas ILEs (without the stimulation of their dual) mostly tend to modulate between more moderate "happy/cheerful/giddy" and rather ambiguous "whatever/meh" moods.

By your own words you appear ILE. Your moods are not as UP/DOWN as you exaggerate them to be, indeed you don’t seem really to understand your own moods. All I’ve seen is you go from "happy/cheerful/giddy" to ‘rather ambiguous "whatever/meh" moods’. And now you’re probably thinking “WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ME?” blah blah blah.

You have a typical Fi-PoLR reaction, which I’m familiar with because my roommate is SLE and I’ve a ILE friend and I argue with them both a lot, to the degree that I am comfortable calling them on their bullshit. They also view me in a similar light as you do, as “arrogant”, “sardonic” etc.” when I do this but really, it’s just because they’re not used to being told. Neither are you. And I know this seems like a sorry spot for you, how dare I hit your Fi-PoLR blah blah blah but you need to stop being such a bitch and realize that you really don’t even understand yourself. All those people that you say betrayed you? And it was so sudden? You didn’t see it coming? Do you know any EIEs? EIEs don’t often suffer such sudden betrayals, their Ni picks up on it early, they keep their friends close, their enemies closer. You never saw it coming because of such a typical Fi-PoLR philosophy as “giving everyone a chance”. That’s so fucking stupid you don’t even know. You want people to be nice and agree with you? What do you think this is? The Alpha Carebear countdown?


Gilly, really, this is for your own sake. Stop humiliating yourself. Please.

[Gilly]

That's what's irrelevent. That people who's opinions you respect agree with you so you're right? That's pathetic, you don't know shit. What? 3 people have agreed with you? I've read the thread and it mostly consists of people with sense indirectly tell you to SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, AND KNOW YOUR ROLE

No, it's just that, in this particular case, many of the people whose opinions I actually respect on the matter actually agree with me. You're trying to twist that around and make it seem like I respect the BECAUSE they agree with me; this is not the case. However I do find it interesting that I am such a polarizing person that people who disagree with me tend to end up disliking me

You're required to substantiate yourself to yourself.

But not to you. And what's the point, I did it anyways, lol...

I'm not going anywhere, it's going to be YOU that's going to leave this thread and in the meantime I'm just going stick pins into your bloated ego until it explodes like rotten chunks of milk all over your face.

rofl...do you see how well that has worked so far? I am fucking relentless. I LOVE getting shot to bits; reminds me that I can live through it. So if you think your "poking pins in my ego" is doing anything that I'm against you doing, by all means, continue. Didn't you read what I said about catharsis? However, driving you out of my thread whining because you have zero power to convince except by using manipulative techniques that are completely transparent to me would be equally satisfying, so do what you like.

By your own words you appear ILE. Your moods are not as UP/DOWN as you exaggerate them to be, indeed you don’t seem really to understand your own moods. All I’ve seen is you go from "happy/cheerful/giddy" to ‘rather ambiguous "whatever/meh" moods’. And now you’re probably thinking “WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ME?” blah blah blah.

Actually, you arrogant little shit, my mood swings are SO extreme that I was diagnosed with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder even though I don't have it

You have a typical Fi-PoLR reaction, which I’m familiar with because my roommate is SLE and I’ve a ILE friend and I argue with them both a lot, to the degree that I am comfortable calling them on their bullshit. They also view me in a similar light as you do, as “arrogant”, “sardonic” etc.” when I do this but really, it’s just because they’re not used to being told. Neither are you. And I know this seems like a sorry spot for you, how dare I hit your Fi-PoLR blah blah blah but you need to stop being such a bitch and realize that you really don’t even understand yourself. All those people that you say betrayed you? And it was so sudden? You didn’t see it coming? Do you know any EIEs? EIEs don’t often suffer such sudden betrayals, their Ni picks up on it early, they keep their friends close, their enemies closer. You never saw it coming because of such a typical Fi-PoLR philosophy as “giving everyone a chance”. That’s so fucking stupid you don’t even know. You want people to be nice and agree with you? What do you think this is? The Alpha Carebear countdown?

Actually I never said anything about it being "sudden." In reality I often see it coming, because I'm a pretty good judge of character, but I typically chose to ignore my ideas on the matter in favor of believing that everything would turn out ok because we all believed in the same things.

And lol @ you pretending to be the authority on Fi PoLR, like other people here don't know SLEs and ILEs...you freaking crack me up. They see you as arrogant because you ARE arrogant, and try to justify what you believe by acting even MORE snobbish than you really are, you self-righteous fool. Get over yourself; there's not much there to overcome.

Gilly, really, this is for your own sake. Stop humiliating yourself. Please.

Please continue getting pissed and trying to tear me down. It's wonderfully entertaining.

[Ezra]

Oh my shitdog. I can't believe this is still being discussed.

[Gilly]

I can

[Ezra]

Yeah, it seems Dionysus can believe anything.

[Gilly]

Huh?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

In my opinion, an active focus on such feel-good (but ultimately pointless and even counter-productive) environmental activities such as buying organic, recycling etc, is a one sign of stronger Fe than Te (not necessarily Fe as quadra value).

Something can be feel-good and also productive. How is taking care of the earth ultimately pointless and counter-productive. Facts please. You just made no sense there. I've been recycling ever since I was two.... because I care about the world. Call me a tree-hugging hippie that can't fight all you want, but it's important to me because who wants to live in a trashy world that looks all blah with pollution and health problems abound. I also make it a point to eat as healthy as I can, and I'm trying not to eat any processed foods.

As for being active with it, I'm not really an 'annoying activist' with it, I just do it- because it's obviously important for everybody. I would never preach to you per se, but if I see you do something that obviously hurts our beautiful Mother Gaia, I'm going to try and stop you. Yay Captain Planet!

[misutii]

Oh my shitdog. I can't believe this is still being discussed.

LOL

[misutii]

No, it's just that, in this particular case, many of the people whose opinions I actually respect on the matter actually agree with me. You're trying to twist that around and make it seem like I respect the BECAUSE they agree with me; this is not the case. However I do find it interesting that I am such a polarizing person that people who disagree with me tend to end up disliking me

But not to you. And what's the point, I did it anyways, lol...

rofl...do you see how well that has worked so far? I am fucking relentless. I LOVE getting shot to bits; reminds me that I can live through it. So if you think your "poking pins in my ego" is doing anything that I'm against you doing, by all means, continue. Didn't you read what I said about catharsis? However, driving you out of my thread whining because you have zero power to convince except by using manipulative techniques that are completely transparent to me would be equally satisfying, so do what you like.

lol plz. You need to be reminded of you can live through it? And yet you enjoy it? How many people agree with you Gilly? How many? How many Betas? Oh yes the army of imaginary socionically corrected friends you've summoned with your magic 8 ball. You seem deluded and scared. Do you not think that all this sparring is in itself not indicative of one's type?

Actually, you arrogant little shit, my mood swings are SO extreme that I was diagnosed with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder even though I don't have it

And this is indicative of what? That your emotions are relatively undeveloped and you have very little control over them. You have immature outbursts when things remind you of things you don't want to be reminded of and you don't expect it. Such outbursts are more indicative of logical types whereas ethical types tend to more slowly heat up but also more slowly cool down. But who am I kidding?!

Actually I never said anything about it being "sudden." In reality I often see it coming, because I'm a pretty good judge of character, but I typically chose to ignore my ideas on the matter in favor of believing that everything would turn out ok because we all believed in the same things.

Sure you do. So you reach into hot ovens with your bare hands and when you get burned you cry about it afterwards? And then after you cry about it you try to make everyone believe that you meant to burn yourself! Yes! It is testament to the complexity of your character! Wow, so complex! Or maybe more like the shallow end of a custom made swimming pool and looks can be deceiving.

And lol @ you pretending to be the authority on Fi PoLR, like other people here don't know SLEs and ILEs...you freaking crack me up. They see you as arrogant because you ARE arrogant, and try to justify what you believe by acting even MORE snobbish than you really are, you self-righteous fool. Get over yourself; there's not much there to overcome.

It takes one to know one. Considering how long I've had my SLE and ILE friend they obviously find this trait appealing. You seem to too hahaha

Please continue getting pissed and trying to tear me down. It's wonderfully entertaining.

It's like a merry-go-round, round and round and round, but what's in the centre and is it even there? Oh my! Yes yes of course ok nevermind hurry up and get back on its starting again!

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Haha +5.

I loved the fag haggy relationship of the "Heart" (what was his name?) and that one IEE leader chick. What was her name again? Was it actually 'Gaia?' ROFLMAO

[Gilly]

Something can be feel-good and also productive. How is taking care of the earth ultimately pointless and counter-productive. Facts please. You just made no sense there. I've been recycling ever since I was two.... because I care about the world. Call me a tree-hugging hippie that can't fight all you want, but it's important to me because who wants to live in a trashy world that looks all blah with pollution and health problems abound. I also make it a point to eat as healthy as I can, and I'm trying not to eat any processed foods.

As for being active with it, I'm not really an 'annoying activist' with it, I just do it- because it's obviously important for everybody. I would never preach to you per se, but if I see you do something that obviously hurts our beautiful Mother Gaia, I'm going to try and stop you. Yay Captain Planet!

The point is that, when you consider the energy expenditures necessary to make things out of recycled product, the extra transporation costs, etc, it doesn't always end up being energy or cost-efficient to make things out of recycled goods as opposed to new material, partly because less money goes into developing technology for recycled material and building, for example, processing plants that convert recycled materials into usable material.

As for organic habits...well, I think he provided sufficient information on that, to be honest.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Point taken, but I'd need more raw data too of course. I can figure that part out myself though.

[Gilly]

Yeah, the recycling thing is pretty complex. At least that's the impression I get; I'm not concerned enough to delve deeply into it. All I say is that, if people are about making stuff out of stuff that already exists, hell, I'm going to help them do it

[Gilly]

I would totally be Captain Planet if the world would let me.