The Dark Knight

[Khola aka Bee]

OMG LOVE this movie!!

Anyways, here's my thoughts...


Joker... gotta be some kind of SF, and quite anarchic.....it might be kinda vain, but I'm thinking SEI Do I look like a man with a plan to you? kekeke.

Batman.... Gamma/Beta NT? ENTj? Or summin

Two face.... Beta Extrovert??

Rachael...ermmm.... ENFp?? ENFj? Iono?


Holy balls was this an awesome movie!!!

[Gilly]

My thoughts for types:

Batman: ILI 5w6 sx/sp
Joker: Obviously Beta NF IMO; he seems like a 4w5 so/sx so IEI>EIE
Harvey Dent: LIE, or perhaps IEE, 6w7 so/sx (Nick gets a point for me being 6 because I actually identified somewhat with this guy )
Alfred: ESI (this is the most obvious typing of them all IMO); seems like a 2w1 sx/sp
Rachel Dawes: SEE; seems like a 7w6 sx/so
Lucius Fox: LSI; seems 1w2 sp/sx
Gordon: LSE or SLI; 8w9 or 9w8 sp/sx

[Gilly]

Actually I can see the case for the Joker as SEI.

[Gilly]

I dunno, I think the Joker is more IEI than SEI. He's all about seeing how people are "when the chips are down" and such, which is a very, very Beta NF kind of thing. My EIE friend and I had an extensive discussion once about making people feel awkward and seeing how people act when you push them out of their comfort zone, when they are forced to deal with something unfamiliar, when people push the envelope and so forth. "The Naked Feeling"

The Joker seems obsessed with his conception of human nature, which is the kind of territory that I think Beta NFs often delve into; I know that I've taken these kinds of things "too far" before myself. He also seems to be very much enamored with his "image" as frightening, talking all about his scars and putting on all the makeup and soforth.

I think the generally self-entertaining nature of his antics points more Alpha than Beta, as does the "Do I look like a man with a plan?" quote but I think the former is more stereotypically villain-esque than anything, and the latter almost seems like the ontological "result" of his self-centered perspective on human nature (ie it's part of his "philosophy" more than his personality). Looking at the whole picture IEI makes more sense I think.

[Gilly]

That's hillarious

[discojoe]

Alfred: ESI (I think Michael Caine is, too)

Lucius Fox: IEE

Rachel: EIE

Dent: LSE

Joker: ILE

Gordon: EII

And I know I'm going to be accused of bias here, but I'm going to agree with Ezra and say that Bale's Wayne/Batman is ESI:




He's got a very small circle of friends, pretty much only two people (three, if you count Gordon).

He keeps a cool psychological distance from even his close friends, except when in the most intimate of situations.

He doesn't do business or play politics with people he doesn't feel he can trust, preferring instead to use force as Batman to deal with people he doesn't like or trust.

He takes very little time deciding that someone is trustworthy. He wanted to feel out Dent at dinner, and seemed to do so very quickly.

He has a lack of concern for rank and the law, having no moral qualms going against the establishment to exact his own vigilante justice, even if it means beating up police officers, smuggling himself into other countries, kidnapping, etc.

No problem exerting violent force on people when he feels they deserve it.

He's got strong Fe he uses to pretend to be an asshole Beta when in his public Bruce Wayne persona.

He doesn't seem to have any real interest in his gadgets or toys beyond seeing them as tools, though he does show a mild personal interest in cars for their Se value. His dwellings are always spartan and tidy. His appearance is meticulous. This doesn't necessarily point toward ESI, but I think it does point away from intuitive types somewhat, and in my opinion it means strong Si.

His conversation with Gordon at the end of Batman Begins seemed like possible EII/ESI relations. They were both on the same page in terms of Fi, but Gordon was bringing up Ne concerns about possible criminal escalation, which Batman seemed to find irrelevant.

[Logos]

Batman/Bruce Wayne: LSI.

[duality is cringe]

Lucius Fox: LSI; seems 1w2 sp/sx

I think a corporation called 'LSI' was mentioned in a scene with Lucius Fox.

[Joy]

I think a corporation called 'LSI' was mentioned in a scene with Lucius Fox.

lol

[Expat]

My thoughts for types:

Batman: ILI 5w6 sx/sp
Joker: Obviously Beta NF IMO; he seems like a 4w5 so/sx so IEI>EIE
Harvey Dent: LIE, or perhaps IEE, 6w7 so/sx (Nick gets a point for me being 6 because I actually identified somewhat with this guy )
Alfred: ESI (this is the most obvious typing of them all IMO); seems like a 2w1 sx/sp
Rachel Dawes: SEE; seems like a 7w6 sx/so
Lucius Fox: LSI; seems 1w2 sp/sx
Gordon: LSE or SLI; 8w9 or 9w8 sp/sx

I finally watched it, last Saturday, in London, and I agree with most of Gilly's views, except that I tend to see Batman as ESI, and Harvey Dent as EIE>LIE.

I thought it was really good. I was impressed at how convincing the transition from Harvey Dent to Two-Face was. First, that was an accurate portrayal of Two-Face's psychology, and they build it up well with his playing with the coin from the beginning. Second, they successfully build up Dent's character into someone you can understand and care about - and then make him fall, which increases its impact much more.

That is how the Anakin Skywaker -> Darth Vader transition should have been handled, instead of having Anakin as a darkly petulant kid who was already "half fallen" to begin with.

[Phaedrus]

Expat, you are an idiot if you don't see that Joker is an ILE.

[discojoe]

Expat, you are an idiot if you don't see that Joker is an ILE.

I agree (that the Joker is ILE).

[discojoe]

I thought Dent/Two Face was a more enjoyable character than the Joker, who felt more like a nuisance than anything.

[Khamelion]

I thought Dent/Two Face was a more enjoyable character than the Joker, who felt more like a nuisance than anything.

It was the other way around for me....except I don't really care about it. Liked the movie as a whole and don't have any complaints about the characters.

[Gilly]

I have been thinking about this...I think ESI or LSI, either one, could work for Batman, for different reasons. Harvey as EIE was my final conclusion, and I find it interesting that you (expat) draw the parallel to Anakin, because both are characters I identify with very much; in fact my sister was the first to bring my more overt similarities with Anakin to my attention.

[Joy]

Do I look like a man with a plan to you? kekeke.

He did have a plan though. Everything had been planned out quite thoroughly.

[Gilly]

He did have a plan though. Everything had been planned out quite thoroughly.

Yeah, like I said before, the idea of "not having a plan" is more a part of his philosophy than his actual methods.

[Joy]

Yeah, like I said before, the idea of "not having a plan" is more a part of his philosophy than his actual methods.

I don't think it's even really a part of his philosophy... I think he was just manipulating Dent. He wasn't simply looking to show people that they were fools for trying to scheme... he was showing then that they were fools for trying to out scheme him.

[Gilly]

I don't think it's even really a part of his philosophy... I think he was just manipulating Dent. He wasn't simply looking to show people that they were fools for trying to scheme... he was showing then that they were fools for trying to out scheme him.

I think that's how it really was, but I think the way he seem to have been thinking of it was in terms of securing long-term stability and a predictable environment for themselves; however, like I said, in reality the biggest obstacle to this stability was the Joker himself, so the reality of a "lack of stability" was merely an illusion, probably something relevant to his life experience and (as the description on Lytov's site recognizes as typical of EIEs) projected onto a global scale (I totally do this too, lmao).

[Suomea]

...

[Aleksei]

Batman: ESI-Ne, 6w5 so/sx (INTJ)
Bruce Wayne persona: SLE-Se, 7w8 sx/so (ESFP)
Alfred: SLI-Fi, 2w3 sx/so (ISFJ)
Rachel: IEE-Fi, 1w2 so/sx (ENFJ)
Lucius: IEI-Ne, 2w1 sx/sp (INFP)
Gordon: ESI-Fi, 2w3 so/sx (INFJ)
Corporate guy: SLE-Te 8w9 sp/so (ENTJ)
Harvey Dent: SEE-Ti, 1w2 so/sx (ENFJ)
Jonathan Crane: LII-Ne, 5w4 sp/so (INTP)
Two-face: SLE-Ti, 6w5 sx/sp (ESTP)
The Joker: EIE-Ne, 7w8 sp/sx (ENTJ)

[Crispy]

Batman: ESI-Ne, 6w5 so/sx (INTJ)
Bruce Wayne persona: SLE-Se, 7w8 sx/so (ESFP)

[UDP]

It kind of seems right but IDK I haven't seen it in a while.

[pianosinger]

I will be following this thread with interest, as my husband has actually been wanting to know Batman's type (and Bruce Wayne's, which seems to be quite different). I just don't know enough about the characters to figure it out myself.

Aleksei-- Maybe I'm the only one who finds it unbelievable that you can be so confident in your typings of people you've never even met, to be able to type them in detail in three different typologies. idk. Maybe if you stuck with just one typology, I might actually be more inclined to give your typings more consideration; but you seem far too eager to "pin the type" on people.

And how do you figure that most of your people above happen to be Thinking types in one typology, and Feeling types in the other? I can understand the blurred line between Sensing and Intuiting between Socionics and MBTI, but I have a harder time seeling how Thinking and Feeling can be so radically different between the two systems.

[Aleksei]

Aleksei-- Maybe I'm the only one who finds it unbelievable that you can be so confident in your typings of people you've never even met, to be able to type them in detail in three different typologies. idk. Maybe if you stuck with just one typology, I might actually be more inclined to give your typings more consideration; but you seem far too eager to "pin the type" on people.

Typing isn't that difficult, and typing fictional characters is actually easier than typing real people, as the thoughts and feelings of characters are laid out for the audience to see. I type in Enneagram and MBTI as confidently as I do in Socionics (though I don't always), because I'd actually been studying these systems a while before getting into Socionics.

And how do you figure that most of your people above happen to be Thinking types in one typology, and Feeling types in the other? I can understand the blurred line between Sensing and Intuiting between Socionics and MBTI, but I have a harder time seeling how Thinking and Feeling can be so radically different between the two systems.

They aren't altogether radically different, but they're different enough that they can still overlap. This is particularly true of types that are Perception-dominant, as the tertiary J function can overlap with the auxiliary -- even to the extent that it itself can appear to dominate over the aux function. INTJs seem particularly susceptible to this, though most Fi-driven INTJs usually mistype as INFJ. In Socionics, these emotionally charged INTJs are usually ESI, or IEI.

[chocobojohnx7]

Bruce Wayne/Batman: ILI/LSI?
Ras Al Ghul/Henri Ducard: EIE-Ni
Alfred:SEI-xx
Gordon:SLI?
Talia:EIE-Ni/IEI?
The Joker:ILE-xx/IEE-Ne
Catwoman/Selina Kyle: LSI

Unsure about the others...Rachel, Lucius Fox, Scarecrow, Harvey Dent, Bane, John Blake

[Lolita]

Batman LSI-N (hardcore avenger due to Ti+Fi)
Joker SEE-C (psychotic Ne from subtype, extra violent Se stuff from base and subtype)
Bruce Wayne SLE-D (plays the successful businessman who works hard and plays hard, playboy billionaire)