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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    If somebody isn't getting positive reinforcement, well I think... they simply need to change up their environment.
    Are you sure? We're probably talking about two different things here, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

    Maybe I'm still relating what you're saying to what happened in this thread, but I think that people not agreeing with you means you need to question yourself, not change others. Some people are so dead-set in their beliefs that they try to change the beliefs of others just so that they can interact with them.

    Like if someone believes that gays shouldn't marry and they try to manipulate the environment (or the law, in this case) so that everyone else conforms to THEM. That's so fucking selfish. If your religion tells you that you cannot marry a man, then don't marry a man. That doesn't give you the right to change your environment to support your beliefs.

    Changing the world is such an amazing and admirable thing for someone to want to do. It's endearing and wonderful when I hear people tell me of the things they want to do to benefit people... but how do we know what is okay to change? How do we know what beneficial really means in regards to humanity as a whole? We don't. That's why law and ethics is so confusing yet fascinating to me. Kamangir believes what he is doing is 'beneficial' and he gave us reasons why, similarly to how Gilly, Bullets&Doves, and I justified our beliefs as beneficial to our world.

    We don't know what beneficial means on such a large scale. That's why I think that having as little limitations on our freedoms as possible is essential for us to come to this understanding. Limiting our expression of love (by disallowing gay marriage) or setting limits on how we use our own bodies (so not getting into this one right now...) is really sad to me. We don't know what the purpose of life is... so why the fuck do people think they have the authority to dictate how we live it?
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Well you have said essentially nothing. But because there is a near-insult, a command, an implication of "liking drama", and of course the use of a name, George must be getting emotional.
    Yes, I am getting emotional. I am almost ALWAYS emotional, Jesse, in case you haven't noticed. Now quit being a cunt and get on with life.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Maybe I'm still relating what you're saying to what happened in this thread, but I think that people not agreeing with you means you need to question yourself, not change others.
    You don't need to do either. Both things don't work. I think you simply need to be around more like minded people if you can so you can build the kind of life you want. I meant like-minded in the general community. In my experience every city has a general thought and attitude about things and you don't need to be in a place that you don't feel supported.

    Changing others is impossible, and questioning yourself is the same thing as trying to change others in my mind, so it's equally impossible. You might think you need to work on yourself and change something, but I think generally what most people need is to simply be around the right vibrations that match with theirs so they make better choices inherently and easily.

    Hope I'm making sense here, but as somebody with a lot of gunk in their lives, this is the only thing that's worked for me.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I try to understand, Allie, but it only seems to get more complicated. I'm not sure about duality, either. It is something I would like better to understand. Like sometimes reading your posts my first reaction would be offended. I know logically that you're completely joking around and don't mean it. But there would still be a little piece in the back of my mind going "That hurts. Does she really mean it? Is there a hint of truth behind her joke? Did I do something wrong?"
    AGH. Did you read what you just responded to?? lol

    What I meant... was that for some reason your words honestly make me question what I say and make me want to be a better person. So if my words have ever offended you or bothered/upset you... if you responded to them I would probably stop and listen to you and end up understanding things from a perspective that I usually ignore. And I actually value that. It's a strange thing.

    I've seen people try to change what they mean or act differently to conform to the desires of other people. But wow. This isn't like that at all. I'm not trying to impress anyone or agreeing to get people to like me. Entirely different. I don't experience this often, but I think what's happening is that the way you illustrate your ideas makes so much sense to me that it actually has the ability to influence me. Perhaps people are looking at their duals as their ideal relations instead of the potential ideal.

    The way you're looking at it, it's almost as if you're assuming that you're not there. You're so significant in this. Sure, if you look at who I am right now you would not want to be friends with me. I offend and upset you. But you're forgetting that a friendship is interaction. Reading my posts isn't interacting with me. You being there makes it different. You're influential. You can look at an ENTp right now and decide that duality doesn't make sense because you dislike the way they act. But if you interact with them, I think you'll find that your presence is what makes you like them more. Do you like who I am now more than who I was when I first posted in this thread? Duality is the potential for two people to like/understand each other. They aren't right for each other separately, but as they interact and influence each other... I think that they become their ideal selves.

    I change, not for you, but by you. It's not necessarily something that I try to do... I just feel like even though there are so many different perspectives on reality, my dual's is the one that actually makes sense with mine. So these two perspectives make sense to each other, and they take these new insights and experience them and use them to benefit themselves.

    If you study me, or look at me alone... I'm not right for an ISFp. I think it's because I'm missing that other perspective... their perspective... which is all I need to be right for them. So don't judge me based on who I am now, but who I am after you take a chance to affect me for a while. I'm completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Haha, Allie, you make alot of sense to me. But I think you're wrong, because people are blind and judgemental to foreign ideas, and they find ways to isolate themselves from people they don't agree with. I've often wondered about this. I think it's some kind of self protection. I know I might not be completely happy living this way they do, but I don't know....I don't think I'd be completely happy living any certain way. I don't think I'm made for happiness. I'm just trying to survive, to not kill myself over the hopelessness.
    To keep our beliefs we are not only willing to isolate ourselves, but also to change our environments... which is what I described to BulletsAndDoves in my last post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I think that people not agreeing with you means you need to question yourself, not change others. Some people are so dead-set in their beliefs that they try to change the beliefs of others just so that they can interact with them.

    Like if someone believes that gays shouldn't marry and they try to manipulate the environment (or the law, in this case) so that everyone else conforms to THEM. That's so fucking selfish. If your religion tells you that you cannot marry a man, then don't marry a man. That doesn't give you the right to change your environment to support your beliefs.

    Changing the world is such an amazing and admirable thing for someone to want to do. It's endearing and wonderful when I hear people tell me of the things they want to do to benefit people... but how do we know what is okay to change? How do we know what beneficial really means in regards to humanity as a whole? We don't. That's why law and ethics is so confusing yet fascinating to me. Kamangir believes what he is doing is 'beneficial' and he gave us reasons why, similarly to how Gilly, Bullets&Doves, and I justified our beliefs as beneficial to our world.

    We don't know what beneficial means on such a large scale. That's why I think that having as little limitations on our freedoms as possible is essential for us to come to this understanding. Limiting our expression of love (by disallowing gay marriage) or setting limits on how we use our own bodies (so not getting into this one right now...) is really sad to me. We don't know what the purpose of life is... so why the fuck do people think they have the authority to dictate how we live it?
    But I think both means of attaching to our beliefs are unhealthy. Isolation is bad... trying to mold everyone else's beliefs to conform to ours is even worse...
    Isolating yourself is going to be a negative approach for obvious reasons... limiting yourself from the world.
    And the opposite approach, changing your environment, is bad because not only is it difficult to actually do, but there's also the question of whether it's right to do in the first place. Which I explained in that post... the whole 'we don't know what is universally right for all people' thing.

    So if both means of keeping strongly opposed beliefs are flawed... then what does one do with these beliefs?
    IMO: these sort of beliefs are only limitations.
    And what exactly is being limited?
    -our understanding (actual comprehension of our interaction and experience within life)
    -our interactions (to feel alive: interacting with things outside of oneself)
    -our experiences (what is fundamental for life to be a continuum, rather than a state)

    To understand something is the potential to solve problems; to interact with something is to share understandings, to create, and also to have relations with things, which causes us to feel things- one of the greatest things about being alive is the ability to feel (both physical sensations and emotional ones); and to experience something is to occupy time and to appreciate and enjoy being in the present, to make use of our understandings and interactions... what we do while we are alive.

    I think these three things are ways to find contentment. I'm not going to claim to know for sure, I have no fucking clue. But for some reason I think these things could be significant. The way they work together makes sense right now, like they build off of each other:
    We understand through interactions and experiences; we interact to gain understanding, to share understanding, and also to occupy an experience; and we experience as a means of existing in reality, or more specifically: using understanding and interaction to confirm our being.
    All we know about what reality even is is from experiences. Experiencing things is what we do here, without an "experience" there is no indication of time, this is where our understandings are made and used and where our interactions take place. Isolating oneself from experience inevitably limits one's opportunity to understand and to actually use one's understanding and it limits one's opportunity to interact and enjoy interactions... these are the two things that we know exist in our reality (because to us, reality is only whatever we can experience) and these two things are what we do in reality. You understand and you interact within an experience.

    So to me, having preconceived beliefs limits what you're willing to understand (because you already have universal truth on some subjects), it limits how you're willing to interact (because you have already labeled certain actions/people/ideas as things to not experience), and due to limited understanding and interaction a person is going to be incapable of experiencing life AND reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I can't really speak for Kam, but I don't believe he's really happy persay. He's just trying to survive. I think you guys are kind of missing the point a little bit, because it's not really about living the "right" way. I wouldn't be content living the "right" way I don't think, if all I had to come home to, all I had to look to in myself was a swirling mess of confused theory. This is the way I am now, and it's really hard not to just give up on the spot. I think lots of people are just trying to be as happy as they can because that's the only way to ease the pressure a little bit.
    You're right. He IS just trying to survive. That's exactly my point.

    I think in all honesty, that that is exactly what people with strong, preconceived beliefs are doing to themselves. They aren't experiencing life and reality to the extent we as human beings are capable of...
    And if he wants to continue on with life without a search for understanding and without seeking as many interactions with reality as he possibly can... how does he know he's actually experienced life?
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  5. #125
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    Okay that was the first time I've EVER exceeded the post limitations...
    So I never got to answer this last part.

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I think you guys are kind of missing the point a little bit, because it's not really about living the "right" way. I wouldn't be content living the "right" way I don't think, if all I had to come home to, all I had to look to in myself was a swirling mess of confused theory. This is the way I am now, and it's really hard not to just give up on the spot. I think lots of people are just trying to be as happy as they can because that's the only way to ease the pressure a little bit.
    I don't think we missed the point at all. We weren't the ones arguing for the right way to live... he was.
    And I don't have a problem with a difference of how life should be lived, because I'm a strong believer in that our lives should all be lived in our own way...
    The problem is that his "right" way is to restrict the rights of others. If he believes that HIS right way to live is to marry a woman and dedicate HIS life to religion, then I respect that.
    But when his "right way" is to tell other people that they can't live a certain way, or feel certain things... I have a huge problem with that.
    Last edited by Lotus; 07-12-2008 at 11:07 AM.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Changing others is impossible, and questioning yourself is the same thing as trying to change others in my mind, so it's equally impossible. You might think you need to work on yourself and change something...
    ...Hope I'm making sense here, but as somebody with a lot of gunk in their lives, this is the only thing that's worked for me.
    No, you make complete sense. I wish I clarified what I meant by 'question yourself' though. By that I meant that a person shouldn't assume that their opinions are facts, and that their beliefs aren't everyone's beliefs. For example, if someone tells me what I did was insensitive, I don't argue against that and defend my behavior unrelentingly. I stop and question myself. Was I really being insensitive? If I decide I wasn't being insensitive, then I will continue on... So by questioning I didn't mean changing, just re-evaluating. I think sometimes I need someone to bitch-slap me with a bit of reality to help me realize how I'm acting. We can't monitor our own behavior

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    You don't need to do either. Both things don't work. I think you simply need to be around more like minded people if you can so you can build the kind of life you want. I meant like-minded in the general community. In my experience every city has a general thought and attitude about things and you don't need to be in a place that you don't feel supported.

    Changing others is impossible, and questioning yourself is the same thing as trying to change others in my mind, so it's equally impossible. You might think you need to work on yourself and change something, but I think generally what most people need is to simply be around the right vibrations that match with theirs so they make better choices inherently and easily.
    But I feel like what you're saying about changing your immediate environment (or the people) is only a temporary solution. Ugh, maybe I look at things too "big picture" (which is breeding grounds for useless, idealistic advice lol) but I think in the long-run this kind of solution is only damaging.

    I can totally see how finding people with similar beliefs is rewarding in an immediate way, but it's also kind of scary what would happen if we ALL did that.

    I think you simply need to be around more like minded people if you can so you can build the kind of life you want. I meant like-minded in the general community. In my experience every city has a general thought and attitude about things
    If a whole society or community continues to believe one way and no one questions it... that society/community has the capability to develop into almost anything. Say you don't believe in gay marriage... if you live in a diverse environment it can only affect you in a positive way. I'm not saying you'll all of a sudden become enlightened or change your beliefs, but at the least the individual can learn that diversity in opinion exists... and to be tolerant of other beliefs.

    But if that person follows what you described... and seeks out other people with similar beliefs... the positive reinforcement from these other people is enough encouragement someone needs to assume their beliefs are right. Confirmation from the majority... it's a disgusting way to determine right from wrong, but it's real. And of this hypothetical group, there are people who want to defend their beliefs by being offensive to the beliefs of others. And what I'm saying is true on both a small and large scale.

    This group can be your Church, your friends, your family, your country, etc...
    Regardless, if you only learn from an environment where everyone believes one thing then when you eventually interact with people outside of your environment, you'll be both confused and angry at others for not understanding "truth."

    It's probably difficult for someone who was home-schooled and strictly religious, for example, to realize their religion isn't universal truth. The solution isn't for him to find people who share his belief, but for him to re-evaluate his understanding of what is true through interaction with diversity.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  7. #127
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    But I don't know what matters, I don't have a core. I can't find any universal truth, I can't even find anything close to a universal truth except for humans will keep duking it out, in spite of the best intentions, over and over and over.
    You might be interested in some New Thought literature. I recommend Eckhart Tolle
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yes, I am getting emotional. I am almost ALWAYS emotional, Jesse, in case you haven't noticed. Now quit being a cunt and get on with life.
    Three cheers for Gilly. Four cheers for "LSE".

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    AGH. Did you read what you just responded to?? lol

    What I meant... was that for some reason your words honestly make me question what I say and make me want to be a better person. So if my words have ever offended you or bothered/upset you... if you responded to them I would probably stop and listen to you and end up understanding things from a perspective that I usually ignore. And I actually value that. It's a strange thing.

    I've seen people try to change what they mean or act differently to conform to the desires of other people. But wow. This isn't like that at all. I'm not trying to impress anyone or agreeing to get people to like me. Entirely different. I don't experience this often, but I think what's happening is that the way you illustrate your ideas makes so much sense to me that it actually has the ability to influence me. Perhaps people are looking at their duals as their ideal relations instead of the potential ideal.

    The way you're looking at it, it's almost as if you're assuming that you're not there. You're so significant in this. Sure, if you look at who I am right now you would not want to be friends with me. I offend and upset you. But you're forgetting that a friendship is interaction. Reading my posts isn't interacting with me. You being there makes it different. You're influential. You can look at an ENTp right now and decide that duality doesn't make sense because you dislike the way they act. But if you interact with them, I think you'll find that your presence is what makes you like them more. Do you like who I am now more than who I was when I first posted in this thread? Duality is the potential for two people to like/understand each other. They aren't right for each other separately, but as they interact and influence each other... I think that they become their ideal selves.

    I change, not for you, but by you. It's not necessarily something that I try to do... I just feel like even though there are so many different perspectives on reality, my dual's is the one that actually makes sense with mine. So these two perspectives make sense to each other, and they take these new insights and experience them and use them to benefit themselves.

    If you study me, or look at me alone... I'm not right for an ISFp. I think it's because I'm missing that other perspective... their perspective... which is all I need to be right for them. So don't judge me based on who I am now, but who I am after you take a chance to affect me for a while. I'm completely different.



    To keep our beliefs we are not only willing to isolate ourselves, but also to change our environments... which is what I described to BulletsAndDoves in my last post:



    But I think both means of attaching to our beliefs are unhealthy. Isolation is bad... trying to mold everyone else's beliefs to conform to ours is even worse...
    Isolating yourself is going to be a negative approach for obvious reasons... limiting yourself from the world.
    And the opposite approach, changing your environment, is bad because not only is it difficult to actually do, but there's also the question of whether it's right to do in the first place. Which I explained in that post... the whole 'we don't know what is universally right for all people' thing.

    So if both means of keeping strongly opposed beliefs are flawed... then what does one do with these beliefs?
    IMO: these sort of beliefs are only limitations.
    And what exactly is being limited?
    -our understanding (actual comprehension of our interaction and experience within life)
    -our interactions (to feel alive: interacting with things outside of oneself)
    -our experiences (what is fundamental for life to be a continuum, rather than a state)

    To understand something is the potential to solve problems; to interact with something is to share understandings, to create, and also to have relations with things, which causes us to feel things- one of the greatest things about being alive is the ability to feel (both physical sensations and emotional ones); and to experience something is to occupy time and to appreciate and enjoy being in the present, to make use of our understandings and interactions... what we do while we are alive.

    I think these three things are ways to find contentment. I'm not going to claim to know for sure, I have no fucking clue. But for some reason I think these things could be significant. The way they work together makes sense right now, like they build off of each other:
    We understand through interactions and experiences; we interact to gain understanding, to share understanding, and also to occupy an experience; and we experience as a means of existing in reality, or more specifically: using understanding and interaction to confirm our being.
    All we know about what reality even is is from experiences. Experiencing things is what we do here, without an "experience" there is no indication of time, this is where our understandings are made and used and where our interactions take place. Isolating oneself from experience inevitably limits one's opportunity to understand and to actually use one's understanding and it limits one's opportunity to interact and enjoy interactions... these are the two things that we know exist in our reality (because to us, reality is only whatever we can experience) and these two things are what we do in reality. You understand and you interact within an experience.

    So to me, having preconceived beliefs limits what you're willing to understand (because you already have universal truth on some subjects), it limits how you're willing to interact (because you have already labeled certain actions/people/ideas as things to not experience), and due to limited understanding and interaction a person is going to be incapable of experiencing life AND reality.



    You're right. He IS just trying to survive. That's exactly my point.

    I think in all honesty, that that is exactly what people with strong, preconceived beliefs are doing to themselves. They aren't experiencing life and reality to the extent we as human beings are capable of...
    And if he wants to continue on with life without a search for understanding and without seeking as many interactions with reality as he possibly can... how does he know he's actually experienced life?
    Wow, Allie. Ti creative FTW. (I read it, to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting what was being said; Fe base people like Kristiina and Annie often write lengthy posts like this).

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Three cheers for Gilly. Four cheers for "LSE".
    What does that mean?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Wow, Allie. Ti creative FTW. (I read it, to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting what was being said; Fe base people like Kristiina and Annie often write lengthy posts like this).
    So... ILE?
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Say you don't believe in gay marriage... if you live in a diverse environment it can only affect you in a positive way.
    It's nice to think this Allie, but it just doesn't work like this in the real world! My cousin is the prime example. He lived in a very gay-friendly city but he hated it. He hated the progressive ideas, the liberalism, the choosing arts/entertainment over security. All the naked camps. How everybody was anti-gun laws. They tried and tried to meet him half-way but he didn't like it and always made fun of and mocked homosexuals behind their backs without trying to understand us. Even though there are plenty of redneck homosexuals too, of course- but he just wouldn't budge in his beliefs.

    However once he moved back to a rural community he became much, much happier. But he chose the right kind of rural community, just like I need the right kind of liberal large-ish city. Not just a city with culture, but something that matches my essence. I don't like Chicago even though it is an artsy gay-friendly city, because I feel it's too stuck-up in many ways. My sister LOVES Chicago but it's not my thing at all. Likewise my cousin wouldn't like ANY rural community, but he picked one that matched his aura.

    I'm not saying you'll all of a sudden become enlightened or change your beliefs, but at the least the individual can learn that diversity in opinion exists... and to be tolerant of other beliefs.
    I could be wrong since I haven't seen him in awhile, but I don't think it made him any more tolerant at all. =( At least he learned that others were different though so I suppose it helped him in some ways, but I'd much rather him be in his own little cave and make degrading gay jokes by himself and his little poker buddies than I would for me to go out of my way to make him a better person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You might be interested in some New Thought literature. I recommend Eckhart Tolle
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...hought_writers

    Lol, there are some authors on that list that I like and didn't even realize were considered New Thought writes.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    So... ILE?
    There's so much Ne in what you write (!!) It's awesome (for me, anyway.)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    But he chose the right kind of rural community, just like I need the right kind of liberal large-ish city. Not just a city with culture, but something that matches my essence. I don't like Chicago even though it is an artsy gay-friendly city, because I feel it's too stuck-up in many ways. My sister LOVES Chicago but it's not my thing at all.
    To be honest, out of all the major U.S. cities that I've spent a lot of time in--Bos, Chi, San Fran, NYC--I've considered Chi the least 'stuck-up' of them... Coming from the Northeast, it was a big shock to me just how nice/friendly Chicagoans were... YMMV I guess, based on your past experiences and what you consider 'stuck-up'... I really enjoyed going to college there, (well, Evanston--the first suburb north of Chi.)

    You're right--each major city has its own values/feel... A lot of smaller places do too... E.g. my fam just got a condo in Northampton, Mass, (the 'lesbian capital of the world' lol,) which is one of the most distinctive small cities I've been to... I heard someone describe it as 'a San Francisco neighborhood dropped in the middle of New England'--and yeah, that's about right... It's so different from everything surrounding it... I feel at home when I go there, moreso than on the Cape, or other places that I've lived for awhile.

    I've had a place in New Haven, CT, for awhile--whole different feel.
    Last edited by JuJu; 07-12-2008 at 09:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You butt buddy discojoe treats people with absolutely zero with regards to their feelings and opinions quite often, and you don't seem to have a problem when he does it.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    lol
    lol you totally missed the entire point.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    lol you totally missed the entire point.
    That requires that I was aiming for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    That requires that I was aiming for it.

    No, I mean to the extent that your comment would implicitly contradict commonly-held ideas about both my and Diana's types. You claimed that your behavior was related to lack of valuing Fe; I was saying that the behavior Diana was referring to as reprehensible in some way was a less extreme version of what you do.

    Or maybe you just don't care and felt like making a pointed seemingly type-related statement in defense of your immature behavior.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    My problem was with the hypocrisy of it, the ganging-up on him, and the nature of the response to someone who was only trying to express their own beliefs on a matter. Picking on someone for their beliefs always ticks me off no matter who does it. Even if I disagree with their beliefs, they're entitled to them and should not be treated badly for them.

    For instance I have no love for the religion of Islam, yet certainly defended Hugo when there were attacks on him for being a muslim. Something I feel very strongly about is that a person's religious beliefs are sacrosanct. I will say things in defense of myself if they're using their beliefs to attack me, but to call them stupid because of their beliefs isn't okay with me. Let them come to their own conclusions on their own time, imo.
    I have no problems with anyone's beliefs as long as they are not blatantly discriminatory or harmful to others, especially when they are backed up by arguments that directly contradict things that can be backed up by hard science; that would be my only grounds for labeling him "stupid." However when people DO hold baseless discriminatory beliefs, I have no qualms about being completely open with regards to how their discrimination makes me feel. I simply don't tolerate categorical discrimination; I think it's vile, base, and despicable, perhaps one of the greatest evils that humans, as a race, are capable of.

    Nobody was "ganging up on him," we just all happened to see things the same way and he disagreed; it's not like it was some coordinated attack on his religion.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    7/14:

    I wish gay porn was more gonzo-ish. I mean that's how I usually like to have sex, kind of cartoony and out there- I think it helps cure social anxiety (that is, it has a positive quality and it's not just raw sexual lust like people say it is... nothing exists in a vacuum.) But omg everybody in gay porn usually looks so bored, like what the hell. I don't know what type of BORING ass guys you're sleeping with, but try to be a bit more aggressive arrgggh. I guess they figure it's made for women or something. Women leave us alone, you already rule most of the entire world. (at least in the US) I'm not lying or exaggerating with that. Let us have our fucking porn already!

    Oh and I would just like to point out, I see that everybody is really trying to cover up the nasty/dark side of themselves. This bothers me. I am very peace-loving and passive partly because I CAN admit to myself that I do some really fucked up and shady shit in life. It might make other people feel uncomfortable at first, but if you can't accept the dark side how can you accept the light? That is why so many fundies in all religions do some fucked up shit to other people. They can't admit that they like gonzo porn in public, and then they go out and shoot people for not feeling accepted enough or something. I've come to the conclusion that nobody can live up to the stupid social structure we've made, so there's no use trying.

    I suppose though it is kind of like, I mean to compare, maybe it's like when your grandmother says 'dem ******s have been getting in my watermelon patch again!' and you kinda just go '....' But by expressing herself, at least she's being honest and she's not gonna go out and beat a black person with a stick due to festered up hatred. Hopefully. So I say get it all out in the open. What you really don't like about X group of people. They might bite back, but really it proves that ignorance stems from a place of cowardice (since my granny is indeed, afraid of black people and won't even try to talk to them)

    Racism and homophobia and all the 'isms' we have in society thrive on and on because people won't ask the dumb question and they adopt a sort of political correctness or repeat non-stimulating pat phrases like 'well everybody needs to be treated with love and respect.' Like we didn't already know that, you condescending morons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    No, I mean to the extent that your comment would implicitly contradict commonly-held ideas about both my and Diana's types. You claimed that your behavior was related to lack of valuing Fe; I was saying that the behavior Diana was referring to as reprehensible in some way was a less extreme version of what you do.

    Or maybe you just don't care and felt like making a pointed seemingly type-related statement in defense of your immature behavior.
    hahaha

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    7-17:

    I'm reading the book "Ask and it is Given" right now, which is about The Law of Attraction (as seen on Oprah and other places). It is really cool and empowering. At first I wasn't a believer, and I got kind of angry when I watched the Esther-Hicks vids on Youtube; but then as I read the first chapter of the book I started seeing how it all makes sense.

    Through meditation I've also mixed my gonzo porn (visual, base pleasure) essence with a more form of erotic, romantic love (spiritual, emotional pleasure) essence and I've achieved tremendous results. You feel such pure energy... it is the place of all creation. Obviously.

    The Law of Attraction is useless unless one puts it in practice (as with anything else) so I encourage people to utilize its power. If I want to be negative and get negativity to make me stronger, that's fine too... I really create everything in my life, as does everybody else. All can be forgiven once you really understand these Universal laws.

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    7/20:

    The Dark Knight is awesome, I'm not really a big 'movie guy' but it impressed even me. It really starts to pick up during the last half. Cause before for a second there I was kinda like 'this is boring. Take off your shirt again.'

    Speaking of boring I'm bored now. Don't know what else to say. Later.

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