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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I agree that this is a fair criticism of Ne leading types. However, I do find myself trying to compensate for this constantly. Realizing that I'm doing this and being very conscious about how it makes others feel, but not knowing how to effectively change it. I am very in tune with how those that don't value Ne are perceiving me at that moment and find myself trying to approach things differently, which just makes me feel and seem awkward, out of my element. Maybe this is an Fi subtype thing?

    Are you suggesting that we should purposely try to develop our creative functions in these situations? I think this is interesting. Could you tell me more about this?
    yes actually that is what i am suggesting for work situations, but only because you may have very little control over the personalities of the people you work with. like, say if you could have intra-quadra work relationships solely then you wouldn't need to restrict yourself to your creative function. but most of us don't get that choice, which is why work is such a pain in the ass. you have to constantly adjust who you are depending on who you are interacting with at work and how much power they have.

    for myself, i simply found better results that people appreciated more through use of my creative function. the creative is a nice place to live when the situation is largely unknown. so, in my job, developing systems, tools, training people on their use, etc. i think i just kind of kept my Ne more private...like, i'd research a bunch of stuff, find out about all kinds of things that might have a good application to my job, but i wouldn't really tell anybody about it until the moment was right. like, for example, i found this great assessment tool, but i waited until it looked like there was a problem with the assessment we were currently using (as identified by an outside expert) to present the new and improved assessment. like, if i had just come out with it, it would have been rejected out of hand and i would have been seen as a waster of time and a dreamer, unconnected to the priorities of the organization.

    it also kind of changes depending on who you are working for. like, for awhile, my boss's boss was an enfp, so this leadership really encouraged out of the box. she and i ended up working on a grant proposal together and ended up with a great product which i mostly developed and she sold through her great Fi relationship skills. but later, the enfp was replaced by an isfj....so this is the end of those days for sure. esp since my direct boss is an istj. between the two of them, there's going to be no room for Ne. but i can connect really with with istj on the Ti side...between the two of us we can convince isfj.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    yes actually that is what i am suggesting for work situations, but only because you may have very little control over the personalities of the people you work with. like, say if you could have intra-quadra work relationships solely then you wouldn't need to restrict yourself to your creative function. but most of us don't get that choice, which is why work is such a pain in the ass. you have to constantly adjust who you are depending on who you are interacting with at work and how much power they have.

    for myself, i simply found better results that people appreciated more through use of my creative function. the creative is a nice place to live when the situation is largely unknown. so, in my job, developing systems, tools, training people on their use, etc. i think i just kind of kept my Ne more private...like, i'd research a bunch of stuff, find out about all kinds of things that might have a good application to my job, but i wouldn't really tell anybody about it until the moment was right. like, for example, i found this great assessment tool, but i waited until it looked like there was a problem with the assessment we were currently using (as identified by an outside expert) to present the new and improved assessment. like, if i had just come out with it, it would have been rejected out of hand and i would have been seen as a waster of time and a dreamer, unconnected to the priorities of the organization.

    it also kind of changes depending on who you are working for. like, for awhile, my boss's boss was an enfp, so this leadership really encouraged out of the box. she and i ended up working on a grant proposal together and ended up with a great product which i mostly developed and she sold through her great Fi relationship skills. but later, the enfp was replaced by an isfj....so this is the end of those days for sure. esp since my direct boss is an istj. between the two of them, there's going to be no room for Ne. but i can connect really with with istj on the Ti side...between the two of us we can convince isfj.
    This definitely sounds like a good idea, especially in work situations, which as you said are usually out of our control. Now I just have to figure out how to do it. I realize how it works for you with Ti, but Fi is much less practical and I'm not sure how to translate it into something "achievable" the way you would with Ti. I would guess ENTps do have an advantage in this case, at least for these types of situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I realize how it works for you with Ti, but Fi is much less practical and I'm not sure how to translate it into something "achievable" the way you would with Ti.
    What you should realize first is that you are not an IEE.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    This definitely sounds like a good idea, especially in work situations, which as you said are usually out of our control. Now I just have to figure out how to do it. I realize how it works for you with Ti, but Fi is much less practical and I'm not sure how to translate it into something "achievable" the way you would with Ti. I would guess ENTps do have an advantage in this case, at least for these types of situations.

    i wouldn't agree that Fi isn't useful. relationships between people are everything. any job that has to do with motivating other people, selling ideas, getting people to do stuff, smoothing over sticky situations would involve Fi. i would see IEE's as having the people advantage for sure.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    i wouldn't agree that Fi isn't useful. relationships between people are everything. any job that has to do with motivating other people, selling ideas, getting people to do stuff, smoothing over sticky situations would involve Fi. i would see IEE's as having the people advantage for sure.
    Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I guess I was thinking more in regards to practical matters, which is what I have trouble with...but I guess I should just focus on my strengths and stop worrying about this so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I guess I was thinking more in regards to practical matters, which is what I have trouble with...but I guess I should just focus on my strengths and stop worrying about this so much.

    yeah! you're awesome! :-) and i'm sure you are very smart, so you'll have no trouble figuring out what to do i'd think.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    yeah! you're awesome! :-) and i'm sure you are very smart, so you'll have no trouble figuring out what to do i'd think.
    Thanks! And I definitely do appreciate your feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Thanks! And I definitely do appreciate your feedback.
    you are welcome, and, thanks to you too!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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