Gilly's Type Blog

[marooned]

I'm thinking EIE as well... yet if Gilly announced tomorrow that he had a sudden revelation and now he *knows* he's ILE and it's all clear suddenly... I would start reconsidering it. I think I've at least decided he's not SLE and I think I'm pretty darn certain about that.

[Gilly]

I agree that I am not SLE I think a lot of things that are hard for me, like respecting authority and taking orders without taking an emotional "hit" from doing so, would be easier for me. I also don't think I would be as emotive or expressive externally. And I would probably at least appear more self-assured.

[Gilly]

EIE is definitely a plausible option. I dunno, I don't identify with any of the traditional descriptions of rationality, but this could be due to a combination of the "J" idea from MBTI and being Fe dominant (emotions are "irrational," as we normally think of the world, by definition, are they not?) I dunno, who fucking knows. What do I seem like on cam?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Whatever you're so gay and you're gonna come out.

lol j/k

Maybe. =p

[Gilly]

Now you're just trying to fuck with my head. Not cool

[Gilly]

7/10 Early Morning

So the reason I woke up is because I had a dream that scared me. All I really remember is being in some kind of classroom atmosphere, holding a snake by the tail, feeling comfortable with the snake not attacking me, and then after a period of time of not paying full attention to the snake, having the sensation that it was moving and looking and seeing that it was coiling up and trying to bite my hand. I remember waving and flailing the snake around to make it harder for the snake to curl up and bite me, but it didn't really work. I think I woke up before it actually bit me. I remember the snake had a name, but I don't remember specifically what the name was. Two words.

I meditated for most of yesterday afternoon after I ate and ended up going to sleep around 8 pm. For some reason I have nightmares, or at least "frightening" dreams, whenever I meditate for a long period of time. I wonder why this is. Maybe my ego is trying to invoke defense mechanisms against my attempts to overcome its influence on me.

I have been reading Wisdom of the Enneagram, which I got in the mail today, and after reading type 3, I am fairly sure that it describes me. The desire to "achieve" global goals that are the result of my parents' influence on me, the reluctance to compete in anything that I don't think I can be the best at, image consciousness, having trouble letting people see the "real" me because, on some level, recognition and admiration is more important to my ego than intimacy; the idea of "deceit" as a passion and core fixation in terms of presenting myself as "having it together" and being worthy of regard to others. Disintegration to 9 also makes the most sense: the greatest characteristic of my unhealthy phases is my tendency to withdraw and feel apathetic about just about anything; I try to numb myself because I feel like I have failed so utterly that it is useless for me to put any more effort towards my goals. I am also very vain like a 3, and know how to present myself regardless of circumstance. I read somewhere that 3s "dress for the occasion" in terms of "fitting in" with whomever they are going to be with, sometimes without even thinking about it, and that these kinds of tendencies lead them to get "lost" with regards to their true identities. Another thing I identify with about type 3 is the idea of presenting an "image" both outwardly, to seek approval, and inwardly, to quell my own anxieties about being insignificant or "meaningless." The idea of shame, more specifically social shame, as a core negative emotion speaks volumes about me: I have a lot of insecurity about not being "worthy" of other people's admiration or love without doing something to earn it. I've talked a lot in the past about feeling as though I've only ever been valued for my intelligence and looks, and on some level I am totally fine with that because it helps me get the recognition that I need; this is the "outer-directed" part of type 3. However, on a deeper, more personal level, I have a lot of shame surrounding the fact that I feel that I have never been plainly accepted for who I am, and, paradoxically, this is largely due to the fact that I am reluctant to let people actually SEE who I really am because I am so afraid of rejection.

I definitely have more of a 4 wing than 2, I think, and having read more about the instincts and how they apply to type 3, I think I am probably so/sx. The social variant for 3 talks about valuing things that denote prestige, and this is something about myself that I have always loathed. I wanted SO badly to go to an Ivy League school, partly because my sister went to one and I felt pressure to "achieve" the status in the family that she had (because I felt that familial status was based on intelligence, which OBVIOUSLY means that I must do well at a good school, right?), but also because I was just drawn to the idea of having a diploma from Harvard or Columbia or Dartmouth; it sounds romantic to me and I wanted to embody the image of an intellectual God or whatever, and how better to do that than to go to an Ivy League school? I've also always liked the idea of being part of some clandestine society, like Skull and Bones, for the idea of exclusivity and intellectual prestige and whatnot. Those kinds of things have a pull on me that I don't like to admit, but I am definitely drawn to them. Another example of this desire for intellectual prestige would be my experience with my high school AP English class. I felt intimidated when I was finally in a classroom with students I saw as my intellectual equals, but that motivated me all the more to try to stand out as special and supremely intelligent amongst the few students judged as qualified for that class. I had had a connection with the teacher, an IEI, in my class with him the year before, and I did my best to exploit that connection, as well as every bit of esoteric knowledge and my capacity for insight that I could muster, to stand out as exceptional among people who I finally felt were my intellectual peers. I was getting used to the idea of settling for being their "equal" until my girlfriend notified me that people were actually intimidated by my presence in that class. That was an ego boost if I've ever had one

And Nick, I have been reading through type 6, and it isn't me, man. My best friend is probably a 6, though, so I'm not surprised that I have absorbed some of those positive qualities; indeed, many of the things that are "6-ish" about him are things that I admire deeply about his personality that I secretly wish, despite the fact that I have projected superiority over this guy for my whole life, I could have that he embodies effortlessly: loyalty, dependability, and openness, to name a few. I have been doing my best to learn from him in recent months, because I see him as being a paragon of many of the traits that I lack that make like more frustrating for me: candidness, ability to be genuine and self-effacing, leading without "leading," dedication to interests that aren't self-serving, and especially his ability to be completely honest with no regard for what people think of him.

And the most likely reason for me reacting to your "accusations" of my being a 6: I want to be admired, plain and simple

[Elro]

I meditated for most of yesterday afternoon after I ate and ended up going to sleep around 8 pm. For some reason I have nightmares, or at least "frightening" dreams, whenever I meditate for a long period of time. I wonder why this is. Maybe my ego is trying to invoke defense mechanisms against my attempts to overcome its influence on me.

Maybe you're saving up all your nervousness for when you can't suppress it. Also, I have no idea what the last sentence in that quote really means.

[Gilly]

That could be the case.

It means that my ego recognizes my meditation as an attempt to decrease its influence on me, and as a result uses bad dreams as a form of creating negative associations with meditation.

[UDP]

have you read A New Earth yet?

Tolle refers to that as "the pain body" reacting at your efforts.

http://eckharttolle.com/a_new_earth

[Gilly]

I haven't, but when I finish the power of now I'm going to buy it.

That's pretty much what I thought. Thanks, though, because by referring to it specifically as the pain body you've helped me make a connection.

[Ezra]

Ignore Nick. He likes to call everyone a Six, regardless of what type they actually are, save his beloved Mike Tyson who is, ironically, a Six (counterphobic, Five wing).

[Gilly]

7/10 Afternoon Update


I have just been meditating and I came to the conclusion that life is easy for me. I haven't had any serious trouble managing finances since beginning living on my own; although I do owe my parents a good amount of money, I am well on my way to paying them back since having begun saving in earnest. I have no problems buying groceries, I'm usually not TOO tempted to buy silly things that will throw me off my budget, and I basically have everything I need. In reality, the only thing that makes life hard is my ridiculous expectations of myself and those that I project onto other people and imagine that they are giving me a hard time. I don't struggle to make ends meet, I have support from my friends and family, I am well-liked by all of my co-workers, and I manage very well with my superiors given my innate disdain for people who knowingly exercise authority over me. I don't need anything that I don't have, and there is very little that I want that is beyond my means that is not dictated, again, by completely absurd expectations of myself; in fact I'm not sure there is anything that falls into such a category. If I could somehow release myself from my innate urge to do something huge in the world and be admired and seen as exceptional, I would lead a very easy and satisfying life; for some reason I just can't help think that I am obliged to do something big with my life. Maybe it has to do with being a preacher's kid, heh.

This, that is, dissolving these self-expectations, is the work that I have set out for myself with regards to my meditation. For some time I have been looking at meditation as a means to whatever these ends of greatness might be. I think it's time for me to let go of this narcissistic idea and let myself be who I am.

I still think I am probably a 3w4 and I am currently leaning EIE>IEI for no other reason than I think most people see me as more clearly an extrotim than an irrational type. However I am certainly not beyond considering IEI.

[Gilly]

7/10 Nighttime Update

I have noticed that I get more reward out of relationships in which I take more initiative/am the larger force in the "getting to know/staying in touch" process. I think this might be a point for extroversion? I dunno, I feel like I've accomplished something when someone clearly feels closer to me for my having taken direct initiative to maintain a relationship with them; when other people come to me, I dunno, its just not the same. I mean my best friend is way better at staying in touch with me than I am at staying in touch with him, he takes most of the initiative and so forth, but sometimes I feel...I dunno, smothered or something. Honestly I can see why he drives some girls away

I feel like I might have been too...harsh with Kam in B&D's thread, at least by my personal standards/how I would have liked to be treated in that situation, but I dunno, sometimes it feels good to say it how I feel it, and some people need to hear it that way. I'm not about to edit because that's just how I felt when I made those posts, and going back now would just be a lie. I just need to be more temperate in the future, I guess.

[UDP]

Ignore Nick. He likes to call everyone a Six, regardless of what type they actually are, save his beloved Mike Tyson who is, ironically, a Six (counterphobic, Five wing).

mmm....

[Lotus]

I have noticed that I get more reward out of relationships in which I take more initiative/am the larger force in the "getting to know/staying in touch" process. I think this might be a point for extroversion?

I'm not sure what that is. Because I'm extroverted and I'm the opposite. I hate maintaining relationships and staying in contact with people, I'd rather them do it for me. I'm comfortable taking the initiative with actions (flirting and showing I'm attracted) but not the initiative of taking what's there and turning it into a relationship.

I think an introvert would be more comfortable with the "getting to know/staying in touch" process as long as the extravert takes the initiative intimately. When an extravert isn't afraid to show the interest, the introvert is reassured that the extravert wants the relationship to be maintained.

IME


But it's probably not related since people seem to differ so much.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You're my dual. I'm convinced. In real life I am about as smothering as a nonsmothering thing. But it's passive in a way that is powerful. I'd let you feel comfortable with expressing what you feel like you can only tell on this forum. I am sooo good at detecting what I call the 'loser vs. preppy' in people. Everybody is a loser and they either show that to the real world and appear pathetic/vulnerable or they show a fake status image - but the loserness is always there. I mean come on now. No matter how much success you get in the world... that loserness drama and human tragedy always seems to come out. Funnily enough we create all these masks to hide that basic vulnerability. But it's what is beautiful and stops us from hurting others too ... and wow! Really it is great. =)

I suppose you could say I'm a basic therapist then. But... I think people's neurosis stems from missing really subtle, sneaky social clues and it festers organically over time. This web of evil is really quite interesting once you pay attention to it. I don't even think it's been properly talked about in books. It's like a snowball effect and until you grasp it and start making better choices, your relationships suffer.

People always feel like they can open up to me, I just listen. I don't know. To be honest though as an introvert I might actually not be liking it as much as you like expressing yourself, but I absorb it and kind of 'heal' it and then I don't know. I don't think you are extroverted in the typical sense. I've always had a hard time comprehending what an extrovert would get out of communicating in an online forum, I think you are a hybrid.

This just keeps getting better and better. When are we going to live together and adopt our chinese baby and throw it in other people's faces how better we are than them? j/k

[Expat]

Gilly, did you notice that in your blog you seem unconcerned with ?

[Gilly]

You're my dual. I'm convinced. In real life I am about as smothering as a nonsmothering thing. But it's passive in a way that is powerful.

I'd let you feel comfortable with expressing what you feel like you can only tell on this forum.

My "feeling comfortable" about expressing these things is solely dependent on me. I have good friends who I know would never judge me for anything I do or feel or say, and I still don't feel like opening up to them sometimes. And hell, sometimes I spill my guts about deep stuff to people I've barely known. My ability or willingness to open up to someone depends almost entirely on how I feel at that moment.

I am sooo good at detecting what I call the 'loser vs. preppy' in people. Everybody is a loser and they either show that to the real world and appear pathetic/vulnerable or they show a fake status image - but the loserness is always there. I mean come on now. No matter how much success you get in the world... that loserness drama and human tragedy always seems to come out. Funnily enough we create all these masks to hide that basic vulnerability. But it's what is beautiful and stops us from hurting others too ... and wow! Really it is great. =)

I suppose you could say I'm a basic therapist then. But... I think people's neurosis stems from missing really subtle, sneaky social clues and it festers organically over time. This web of evil is really quite interesting once you pay attention to it. I don't even think it's been properly talked about in books. It's like a snowball effect and until you grasp it and start making better choices, your relationships suffer.

People always feel like they can open up to me, I just listen. I don't know. To be honest though as an introvert I might actually not be liking it as much as you like expressing yourself, but I absorb it and kind of 'heal' it and then I don't know. I don't think you are extroverted in the typical sense. I've always had a hard time comprehending what an extrovert would get out of communicating in an online forum, I think you are a hybrid.

Heh, I totally agree with you. I'm really similar, actually. I think I actually make people feel safe with regards to expressing their "loserness;" people often come to me with personal problems. In rehab a guy who was in the same room as me for almost the whole time I was there basically spilled his guts to me and told me that I was the only person he had ever confided in in any way. I had a kid in group therapy tell me that I "said more than any therapist" that really hit home with him.

This just keeps getting better and better. When are we going to live together and adopt our chinese baby and throw it in other people's faces how better we are than them? j/k

After you sneak into my bedroom while I'm asleep, cut my head open, and rewire my brain to make me gay...?

[Gilly]

Gilly, did you notice that in your blog you seem unconcerned with ?

Could you elaborate on this?

[Expat]

Could you elaborate on this?

Well, for instance, your whole focus on your two jobs is on how much you enjoy them or even how much hard work they are. But there is nothing on which of the two pays more, or offfers better perspectives, or gives you "higher status" or whatever. Your whole take, with this blog, is a relaxed looking-at-where-you-are-now-and-not-worrying-much-about-the-future thing. In fact, you pretty much said yourself that you could well be contented as things are, since you have everything you need.

I know that you've had concerns about your career and financial future; but, in this blog, you seem to be having much more a than perspective.

[Gilly]

Well, the approach I'm taking in this blog is just to write down what I'm thinking about when I sit down to write and give a brief synopsis of what I have been up to since my last entry. Perhaps the approach is more Ne/Si in principle, but, looking back, I'm not entirely sure that my actual writing itself displays a clear focus on any irrational preference.

[Expat]

I'm looking at it from the point of view of quadras. That approach is more Alpha/Delta than Beta/Gamma.

And precisely because it's a spontaneous description of your thoughts, it's valuable for your quadra.

However, I am looking at it in isolation.

[Gilly]

And as far as the jobs go, well, I really don't have much concern about which has better long term perspectives or pays more because I'm leaving them both by this December.

Although I will say this: I am currently trying to decide whether to quit my job at the book store in order to pursue more hours and a higher position/better pay at the coffee shop, and, as you noticed, haven't mentioned it here. This is only one thing, but is noteworthy in that it does coincide with your observations.

[Gilly]

I'm looking at it from the point of view of quadras. That approach is more Alpha/Delta than Beta/Gamma.

And precisely because it's a spontaneous description of your thoughts, it's valuable for your quadra.

However, I am looking at it in isolation.

What I'm saying though is that I specifically chose to take this approach. I'm not sure if that isolated choice is highly relevant to my quadra.

I do agree that the "spontaneous description of thoughts" is relevant for type analysis, which is why I chose it.

[Gilly]

Expat, how relevant do you really think this is to my type?

[Blaze]

Well, for instance, your whole focus on your two jobs is on how much you enjoy them or even how much hard work they are. But there is nothing on which of the two pays more, or offfers better perspectives, or gives you "higher status" or whatever. Your whole take, with this blog, is a relaxed looking-at-where-you-are-now-and-not-worrying-much-about-the-future thing. In fact, you pretty much said yourself that you could well be contented as things are, since you have everything you need.

I know that you've had concerns about your career and financial future; but, in this blog, you seem to be having much more a than perspective.

i would read this entirely differently. when a person is college age, you do all different kinds of work, mostly just to keep some money coming in, since you're not really qualified to do much in your chosen field yet. and you know that any job you have is definitely not going to be your last job. but you do learn to have a work ethic, how to get along with others in a task environment, and how to manage money. there's not much else there in the types of jobs you have in college.

so i see gilly's approach as being more indicative of his age and much less of any socionic type.

[Blaze]

have you read A New Earth yet?

Tolle refers to that as "the pain body" reacting at your efforts.

http://eckharttolle.com/a_new_earth

i actually got this book last year based on your recommendation, UDP. i've only recently started reading it.

guess what? it feels like supervision to me. i don't think i'm going to finish it.

ok sorry for interrupting your blog gill.

[Ezra]

Question, Gilly: what the fuck is Hermes archetype?

[Gilly]

Question, Gilly: what the fuck is Hermes archetype?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=19413

[Gilly]

i actually got this book last year based on your recommendation, UDP. i've only recently started reading it.

guess what? it feels like supervision to me. i don't think i'm going to finish it.

ok sorry for interrupting your blog gill.

"Feels like supervision?" That sounds contrived, but whatever. "The Power of Now" was fucking awesome.

[Blaze]

"Feels like supervision?" That sounds contrived, but whatever. "The Power of Now" was fucking awesome.

contrived? not sure what you mean. but he wants you to do do do all this stuff. it's a lot of pressure for sure. not at all relieving.

[Expat]

i would read this entirely differently. when a person is college age, you do all different kinds of work, mostly just to keep some money coming in, since you're not really qualified to do much in your chosen field yet. and you know that any job you have is definitely not going to be your last job. but you do learn to have a work ethic, how to get along with others in a task environment, and how to manage money. there's not much else there in the types of jobs you have in college.

so i see gilly's approach as being more indicative of his age and much less of any socionic type.

Be that as it may, I was analyzing it from the point of view of information elements. Whether the explanation is his age or his type is another matter.

Expat, how relevant do you really think this is to my type?

I think Sunshine Lively gives too much importance to the age thing. I am the same age as she; and I remember very well what I was like at your age. I think that what you write spontaneously, at any point in your life, is connected to type. Now, that is not to say that in a certain state of mind - as in, "I just need to take a break" - a Beta or Gamma could not write a similar blog. You can say better than I whether your present state of mind is typical or not.

[Blaze]

well expat we can always make a socionic interpretation and there is always other interpretations. given the clouded definitions common in socionics, other interpretations are certainly just as good....having said that, i'm not so sure one interpretation rules out another either.

[Expat]

well expat we can always make a socionic interpretation and there is always other interpretations. given the clouded definitions common in socionics, other interpretations are certainly just as good....having said that, i'm not so sure one interpretation rules out another either.

Sure, I agree. Which is why I pointed out to Gilly the lack of concern as such, but did not say that that necessarily meant he wasn't Beta.

[Gilly]

You know, maybe this is pointing to something useful. Since I have begun to see myself as Beta, I think it is more apparent that I value Fe/Ti more than Ni/Se, however I feel as though I have a stronger focus on intuition than ethics in a more general sense. Maybe, assuming I am Beta (which, at this point, I still think makes the overall most sense), this is pointing towards an Fe subtype of IEI over Ni subtype EIE?

[Gilly]

This, of course, brings up the recurring problem of people's view of me as an extrovert/extrotim, which is something that I think is worth considering. What do others have do say on this?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Hmm. From the only vid I saw of you, you seem extroverted but also kind of a negative one in a way (I could sense the repressed anger you talked about earlier), which is a bit odd since usually extroverts get associated with positivity. Just a hunch but it seems like you need people you could complain to a lot that wouldn't get upset about it.

[Gilly]

Definitely. I need people who can handle the fact that I feel extremely irrational things sometimes and be open-minded and committed enough to me that they don't take what I express too seriously all the time. Like, I have some REALLY WEIRD SHIT that I would love to get off my chest, and I experience really ridiculous things on a daily basis, and I would marry the first woman I met who I knew could hear me out and not think worse of me for it.

And I mean weird shit. I swear to god, on some level I probably just think up strange shit just to alienate myself mentally from other people. My mind is so warped.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well I overidealize things and I think if me and a person don't get along at first or have a big fight (or I inevitably say something the other person doesn't like) that means the earth is doomed, which I know is stupid, because I've fought & made up with my friends lots of times, but I just get extra paranoid when I like somebody because well I don't like enough people I feel.

But anyways back to your post, you can always tell weird shit to me, I love that stuff! Don't worry I won't make you marry me LOL. And uhhh well in real life at first I also never brag about my accomplishments. I guess this looks like self-loathing or self-hatred to people but I just don't think they are that big a deal. Everybody says how I need to show off my awards more and shit, but I don't know- I just hate shit like that. But then again when you first meet somebody what else can you talk about? I really want somebody so badly to just come up and talk weird shit to me though. Not many people get that.

[Gilly]

7/10 Late Night Update

Work at the bookstore was good today. I am realizing more and more that working hard and putting energy and effort into work, no matter what it is, makes it more fun and makes the time fly. I think I worry too much about causing myself undue stress and it ends up backfiring on me because of the lengths I go to in my attempts to preserve a "peaceful state." Plus it gets be big props from my own self-esteem and my superiors when we all see that I am working in earnest

I went and saw Hancock with my sister this afternoon. It was a pretty good movie. I'll try not to say too much, but there's a fucking AMAZING plot twist that happens right when you think the movie is going to run out of steam...I have to say, it was well done. I didn't think I would be able to buy Will Smith as an asshole, but I have to say, I underestimated his acting skills. He does a good job in this one.

Ugh, my roommates move my dishes around. That kindof pisses me off, when people act like it's ok to just touch my stuff and put it wherever they like...like I seriously have no problem sharing, as long as you just respect that it's my stuff; when you play my game, play by my rules, you know? I know this is a bit extreme, but it's a bit like the hand that feeds being bitten: I let people use my stuff, and then it winds up in random cabinets and I have to search it out when I realize that it went from the sink to "nowhere" when I look for it. Like seriously, I don't even want anyone to do dishes for me if they're just going to hide them from me or something. BLEARGH OVERREACTIONZZZZ.

I found a new band to listen to. I have been wearing Sigur Ros, Mogwai, and Tortoise into the ground lately, and I was about to start listening to Air, who are ok but not really exceptional or very interesting, and also hark back to some Massive Attack, just because the usual was getting old, but all of a sudden I saw one song on my playlist by Explosions In The Sky, and lo and behold, they fucking RULE and I now have a few of their albums. Thank God for good music.

I hope I live long enough to be able to go into space when it is made commercially available. I read something once in a Popular Science mag at my doctor's office that some guy is looking to build a mechanism to make "space diving," as in skydiving from outside earth's atmosphere, 60 miles above ground level, a luxury activity. I think I might just have to do this if I ever get the chance but I should probably try regular skydiving first, heh. Man, what a trip.

Side note: Is there any chance I could be Alpha SF? I know this is probably a stretch, but I dunno, Expat's comment just got me questioning again. I dunno...I would be a pretty freaking strange ESE or SEI but it wouldn't be the only strange thing I'd be, heh.