Uncertainty, having doubts for EIEs/ENFjs

[Mediator Kam]

This whole thread needs to die.

Along with some attitudes.

gogo Ms. VA I support your endeavor.

yeah i'm out, let it die.

[Mediator Kam]

so how bout them braves???

THEY WERE ONCE THE MILWAUKEE BRAVES DON'T YOU FORGET IT LITTLE MS GLAM.

btw a couple of my friends are going to the FBLA national tournament tomorrow. in Atlanta.

go see em.

[Kristiina]

Hahahahahaha, I don't think she got laid today =[

hahahaaa

[Blaze]

hahahaaa

lol.

i didn't really think that what scarlett said was all that offensive, just straightforward and honest...in a forceful Se hidden agenda kinda way. lol.

but more to the point....why do we not think dbmm is an EIE? does the relation with scarlett imply a delta quadra person? like IEE?

enquiring minds want to know!

[kensi]

Hello, this is to all ENFj, ENFj-Fe, Enfj-Ni. I would like to know the doubts and contradiction you experience in your head. how it has affected your life, and shape you as an indivuduals. Have you ever tried to do something with your doubt and let it go. To what degree do you experiences this kind of doubt becuase it has bothered me alot, to a point of what I have to say, do, and the direction I am taking in life. What are some of the things we can do to let go of the doubts? Lastly, an interesting face is that on socionics.com it has mentioned that this is part of the positive features we have as an ENFj, how so can this be more positive than negative?

I don't see ENFjs as doubters. Their dominant world is an established and judgmental one of Fe....their minds are made up...................their perceptions that follow are attempts to reconcile the views of Fe in an ever-changing way---their intuition is dynamic...and their external senses very much aware of the reconciliation process.

The Ni subtypes...have the Ni of an ENTj and this in-itself does not constitute doubt.

Any type can have doubts if their functions are not working in the right place at the right time.

[07490]

Once I made up my mind it is done, but it is not before i doubt it internally, I dont think you can noticed our doubt so much externally, though we can show it too.

[Kristiina]

Once I made up my mind it is done, but it is not before i doubt it internally, I dont think you can noticed our doubt so much externally, though we can show it too.

I often deliberately show my doubt - people are often willing to help a damsel in distress therefore sometimes vocalizing potential problems helps prevent them. Also, it gives me a chance to do an "I told you so".

[lefty]

Hello, this is to all ENFj, ENFj-Fe, Enfj-Ni. I would like to know the doubts and contradiction you experience in your head. how it has affected your life, and shape you as an indivuduals. Have you ever tried to do something with your doubt and let it go. To what degree do you experiences this kind of doubt becuase it has bothered me alot, to a point of what I have to say, do, and the direction I am taking in life. What are some of the things we can do to let go of the doubts? Lastly, an interesting face is that on socionics.com it has mentioned that this is part of the positive features we have as an ENFj, how so can this be more positive than negative?

I dont know what life is like for you, but I think ENFJs can be incredibly sensitive, actually, and almost have a phsyical memory of events and that we can hold onto things and see predominating patterns in others. We can be somewhat analytical and are obviously very emotional and intuitive.

So that being said...I think that unless we're raised in very supportive environments or miraculously surrounded by warm, sensitive people who understand us, that we're probably going to experience doubts.

In terms of dealing with my own problems in life I think i tend to attract narcissistic types of people and what I'm trying to focus on right now are things like this:

*Oppression causes bodily changes. These changes make you think you are going crazy. There is a difference between a mental illness and a psychological injury.

*When one is in a "victim state," one sees the oppressor as the enemy, as the one with the power, and as a result, the victim is easily manipulated into frustration and anger. The narcissist will utilize this dynamic to incite people into emotional states which can be exploited into distractions from the core issues.

*An excellent emotional boundary system does not allow the force of another person's emotions to penetrate one's own personal space.

[Nexus]

Uh... okay. I'm sorry to bring this up yet again, but holy crap, dbmmama, you are probably the forum member I am now most annoyed with. Everything you say is so devoid of logical thought and so incredibly airy-fairy. You think you were once an angel? You are too "into" yourself and your own ways of thinking/feeling that you can not see another's viewpoint and merely "agree to disagree" with them. Stop. Please stop.

You know absolutely nothing about Socionics and come up with ludicrous reasonings for your own type. I can't help this sense of dislike towards you, I never have had such an occurrence before, especially online, which seems quite silly. There is no one else I have been more annoyed by. Every time I read your posts I have a need to roll my eyes at their content and form.

You are proud, too proud of your own "revelations" towards what is meaningful towards life. I think it is just the fact that you base so much of your ideas and impressions on subjective feelings and you ignore the facts, the logicality behind things. There is NO way you are a logical type, absolutely none, and unfortunately, I do believe you are just a deluded EIE. I very, very highly doubt SeFi for you. I think an ILI would be incredibly pissed off with your thought processes and such. A certain type of LSI would however, desire someone like you.

A lot of what you post is purely FeNi. You're just all about the dramatics, the emotional expression. You use all-caps to make your emphasis, etc. The Ni comes through and I think that is exactly what annoys me - your use of Ni. You talk as if you had a great power with it and you are some extraordinary "all-seeing" individual ... uhm, right. You need to learn some humility in regards to that function, pretty please ? Your desires to "keep active" are not reminiscent of an Se leading type. I rarely find Se leading or even Se ego types "brag" about how they need to move unless directly questioned of it or something. The Se hidden agenda is quite evident in you - you like to think of yourself as Se dominant, like to think of yourself as intimidating, strong, powerful, physically active, etc. There is a huge difference between it being natural and it being something you knowingly work on and are conscious of.

I think you really need some sense knocked into you by an LSI. Yep, that's right. Someone to really flesh out the theory of Socionics for you and set it in your mind. I'm sorry for all the rudeness, I'm not sure what has gotten into me. Meh. I thrive on the controversy.

Err, I perhaps should not have posted this here. Ah well. Oh look, an EIE is doubting themselves, right here, right now! Ooh!

that was awesome

[Gilly]

like DOUBTING MY TYPE EVERY GODDAMN DAY OF MY LIFE

that's what

[Gilly]

Exactly.

[Kim]

Exactly.

Good boy.

[Gilly]

Don't make me punch you in the baby maker

*pants obediently nonetheless*

[07490]

This thread was ... mostly a waste of time....

However, the initial question was interesting, and I'd love to understand what kind of "doubts" you are speaking of, numbers? I mean, all types doubt themselves, I guess, but since you make a post about it, you must mean something in particular? What do you doubt? In what way?

Yea, I Have a lot of doubt, now a days I just ignore my screaming doubts going thur in my head. It's like sharp contrast and contradiction of what if this can happen, and doubts stemming from thinking too much of things. which leads to confusion and losing the direction I am going to. This might be big things like career changes, life goals, or it can be as little as someone said a small thing and it happens that we analysis it to and taking the sentiment into a meaning of things(which may not be true at all), resulting in something that someone say which was not internationally hurtful but since you doubt so much you delude yourself in certain belief that you may have made it all up in your head, Introvert intuition lies on the underlying unconscious reality and one's interpretation of it.

[07490]

But won't most types second guess themselves in different ways, depending on what their weak functions are? Or is this special for EIEs?

No, I think we all doubt to it's certain extend. like our types, we will naturally look for alternative and figure out what your types are if you are learning socionic. so there are some kind of doubting involved. I find some EIE doubt just about everything which includes every action they take and every movement they make etc... I think most types would have just blow by and not second look by at what they do, A lot of this has to do with self-imagine of a three in the Enneagram. take this description for example,

Three: Self-restraint
The passion of Threes is deceit. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of truth in which Threes try to appear reserved and discrete. When in counterpassion, Threes do not exhibit their achievements or they down-play them; they center their attention and their interest on the other. Threes may consider themselves shy, or others may perceive them as shy. In reality, this reserved approach regarding success and competence is an unconscious action to lower expectations and thereby avoid failure, or minimize its possible effects.

Could you give some specific examples of what you mean? I think that might help me understand.

At it worse when I used to doubt even more so than now, I like to present myself in a way that is acceptable to everyone, to be prefect in their eyes, so everything I say, I do is what I want the other person to see me as what I want them to see me. but behaving like that would sure creates internal doubt and would wrestle yourself with authenticity, especially if you have a four wing, where it interject introspection into being unique, being "real to yourself". This three wing four combination sure would make someone creates this reservedness the quote above explains, looking into the line of acceptance and being true to yourself is a hard thing to do today's time.

Do you see Gilly as EIE?

Yes, I definity see him as an EIE, I think they he might think he is an Introvert from the description of the three above.

[Gilly]

Three: Self-restraint
The passion of Threes is deceit. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of truth in which Threes try to appear reserved and discrete. When in counterpassion, Threes do not exhibit their achievements or they down-play them; they center their attention and their interest on the other. Threes may consider themselves shy, or others may perceive them as shy. In reality, this reserved approach regarding success and competence is an unconscious action to lower expectations and thereby avoid failure, or minimize its possible effects.

Very interesting.

[Sirena]

This thread makes me think I could be EIE.

That was very well put, numbers.

[07490]

This thread makes me think I could be EIE.

You give me a very big EIE vibe, If I would have met you in real life, I will probably type you an EIE.

That was very well put, numbers.

Thanks, you relate a lot to it?

[Sirena]

You give me a very big EIE vibe, If I would have met you in real life, I will probably type you an EIE.

Well, I can say that I really relate to your posts, though I never considered the possibility until now, particularly because of the temperament thing.

Sorry, I'll elaborate more later. I'm in a really crappy mood right now. But wow, I seriously hate how I am constantly overanalyzing and doubting EVERYTHING. Things never just are. It's so emotionally draining. Basically, your OP is one of my main frustrations with myself. Something that causes me a lot of grief half the time. I feel like I'm constantly seeking clarity and certainty, but the more I look, the less I find.

Thanks, you relate a lot to it?

Yeah, I do. I relate to the entire thread. But I don't see how EJ temperament fits at all for myself. But I don't feel like I truly understand the essence of the temperaments though.

[leftylib]

Hello, this is to all ENFj, ENFj-Fe, Enfj-Ni. I would like to know the doubts and contradiction you experience in your head. how it has affected your life, and shape you as an indivuduals. Have you ever tried to do something with your doubt and let it go. To what degree do you experiences this kind of doubt becuase it has bothered me alot, to a point of what I have to say, do, and the direction I am taking in life. What are some of the things we can do to let go of the doubts? Lastly, an interesting face is that on socionics.com it has mentioned that this is part of the positive features we have as an ENFj, how so can this be more positive than negative?

First of all - How do I figure out if I'm Fe or Ni?

Secondly - As I've been posting I've found my dual recently and I think ENFJ doubts stem from their uncomplimented INFP Model B Unconscious. I think we can waste away like an INFP ghost never asserting ourselves and kind of being afraid to live for fear of hurting others or the planet, etc. But that the ISTJ's ESTP Model B Unconscious brings out the best in us, dares us to live, makes us feel real, brings us back to life.

It's positive, because all though we can be, we are generally not destructive assholes. We are thoughtful contemplative sensitive caring buddhas . The world suffers from a deficit of the conscientious personality type were something like the second or third rarest based on a set of statistics I read. And we're a threat to all types. We challange the Alphas to create things that wont destroy us, we challenge the Gammas to match their concepts and products etc. with humanism and we challenge their wars, and we challenge the Deltas to recognize the individual and the individuals desire and rights to sovereignty.

[leftylib]

At it worse when I used to doubt even more so than now, I like to present myself in a way that is acceptable to everyone, to be prefect in their eyes, so everything I say, I do is what I want the other person to see me as what I want them to see me. but behaving like that would sure creates internal doubt and would wrestle yourself with authenticity, especially if you have a four wing, where it interject introspection into being unique, being "real to yourself". This three wing four combination sure would make someone creates this reservedness the quote above explains, looking into the line of acceptance and being true to yourself is a hard thing to do today's time.

Yes that tendency to give whatever people are seeking that chameleon quality can be one of the ways we fade out and if we do it too much for others we have nothing left for ourselves which is why its great to have the dual to come back to who knows us, who looks for consistency in us, who says bold and brazen things that make us give up the act.

[07490]

First of all - How do I figure out if I'm Fe or Ni?

Secondly - As I've been posting I've found my dual recently and I think ENFJ doubts stem from their uncomplimented INFP Model B Unconscious. I think we can waste away like an INFP ghost never asserting ourselves and kind of being afraid to live for fear of hurting others or the planet, etc. But that the ISTJ's ESTP Model B Unconscious brings out the best in us, dares us to live, makes us feel real, brings us back to life.

It's positive, because all though we can be, we are generally not destructive assholes. We are thoughtful contemplative sensitive caring buddhas . The world suffers from a deficit of the conscientious personality type were something like the second or third rarest based on a set of statistics I read. And we're a threat to all types. We challange the Alphas to create things that wont destroy us, we challenge the Gammas to match their concepts and products etc. with humanism and we challenge their wars, and we challenge the Deltas to recognize the individual and the individuals desire and rights to sovereignty.

I never studied Model B but I really relate to a lot of what you talk about here and your thought process, you seem to grasp the socionics systems like how I would interpret it, mind if I ask you if you are a guy or a girl?