I am not Beta

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Actually what she's describing sounds like a Ti-valuing person reacting to a Te person; that is, the "INTj" would be making his case by giving examples, which he was using to validate the points he was making, but she saw them as "deviation" since she'd have preferred to have the point more elaborated on its own merits, without the examples. That would be my guess.

It's a fair point on it's own merit here (I say on it own because I haven't read all of the entire thread-just sort of skimmed parts of it so far) as I have to say i've found this - i've found Ti valuers (mainly Ti seeking types) getting frustrated at what they see as me "rambling on" when what I am really doing is building a case with various examples from my Te perspective.

[eunice]

UDP does this as well. You share little anecdotes which you hope will make people see "the truth" when it's clearly bullshit in the face of every remotely sensible person who reads it. Then you make a stupid comment like "I would love to be a Beta but I'm not", which you believe will make people think "ha! then she must not be a Beta!", which is ironic, because no Delta would "love" to be a Beta, otherwise they wouldn't be a Delta.

Can I just say that it's not the type confusion that pisses me off; it's the sheer fucking pretense that rolls out of your mouths that makes me act so unbecoming towards you and UDP. For all I care, you could be a fucking ESE. But when you attempt to argue for something which is completely pitiful, I have nothing but contempt for you people. Drop the act.

i'm sort of convinced that in her case, she's just really really stupid and honestly believes this stuff that gets fed to her.

Huh? That wasn't my intention, even if that was how you have perceived my actions. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

[aestrivex]

Huh? That wasn't my intention, even if that was how you have perceived my actions. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

actually no; it's been going on very persistently for over a year. it's not a molehill.

[aestrivex]

In that case, poor eunice.

Come to think of it, I think UDP may actually be the same.

not quite. in his case i think the pretense argument is more valid; i don't see any pretense from eunice. with UDP it's not so much a question of him totally ignoring everything i have to say so much as there's so much contradictory information in both his behavior and what he talks about that i can't figure out what's going on and sort of don't trust his self-analyses at this point very much at all.

[Suomea]

...

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[FDG]

god are you a moron

I will come to one of the forum reunions in the US, just to have the pleasure to punch you in the face, and make your nose bleed to death (lol)

[aestrivex]

And I'm sure it's somewhere but I was wondering where the post where you state the reasons you think Eunice is INFp.....

not sure exactly. i'm not sure if there exists or not a single post/thread which would suffice. my list contains a brief summary of this entire discussion. not substantiated with examples, of course, but i've justified this more than enough to the people that have needed to hear it. IM me if you're interested in the long version.

[aestrivex]

I will come to one of the forum reunions in the US, just to have the pleasure to punch you in the face, and make your nose bleed to death (lol)

fuck you too.

[FDG]

fuck you too.

You're getting annoying, keep on talking with your computer, you're not prepared to intereact with human beings in a decent way. Die.

[Gilly]

You're a prick, you know that Fabio? And it's really funny that you try to come off all tough and cool and shit on the forum because on cam you seem like a total goon who is incapable of stringing two words together, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from with this bullshit attitude in the world of premeditated responses.

[FDG]

You're a prick, you know that Fabio? And it's really funny that you try to come off all tough and cool and shit on the forum because on cam you seem like a total goon who is incapable of stringing two words together, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from with this bullshit attitude in the world of premeditated responses.

hahahaa, nice attempt at attacking my self-esteem, but it doesn't work. Keep up with your meds, you might be in a bipolar downswing.

[Gilly]

Nice try on your part as well, but I was serious.

[Gilly]

And for the record, I will not debate the validity of my impressions with you in a text medium, because quite clearly you can say anything you like, and quite clearly your contrived attempt at saving face does nothing to change my observations of you. If you'd like to come on stickam and prove to me that you're not one big, wet, dripping pussy, well, I'm home all day today.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

lol, maybe if I was fluent and had been practicing for years and years.

[Slacker]

Just thought I would like to share some random events and thoughts:

My encounter with an INTj:

I attended a two-day workshop on Interview and Selection. Instead of going straight to the topic of interest, the INTj instructor deviated quite a bit by sharing some interesting anecdotes and basically his life story and achievements. Even though he attempted to link them to his points, I was a little irritated by the deviation which took up quite a substantial part of the course. I would have preferred him to be on track rather than ramble on about something which is distantly related to the topic of interest.

I am also someone who prefers issues to be in black and white rather have gray areas, even though I know it is impossible. Hence, I prefer things to be either right or wrong. Moreover, I like people who are quick decision makers and do things fast because I am not like that. lol. I am someone who needs to read everything to the detail before making a decision. Hence, I am quite slow in making a decision because I need to understand something very thoroughly first.

I have to say that this does not sound AT ALL like someone with Ne in her ego block. And the "INTj" sounds like a Te type.

I must say I have not had a particular interest in your type, eunice, but not liking shades of gray, being annoyed by tangents . . . this is not the talk of someone who values Ne, let alone someone who has it in her ego block.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

I actually hadn't even thought of that But you are right if you are thereby implying that there is essentially no fair and accurately estimable recourse for these personal judgments. I'm just saying what I think about Fabio based on what I've seen, and going on to point out that it's absolutely useless to debate whether or not he is vaginal discharge here on the forum because he can say absolutely anything he wants to save face.

However Fabio is obviously fluent in English, so I'm not sure it would put him at that big of a disadvantage.

*sigh* Looks like I've got Diana haunting my footsteps again...*yawn*

[Expat]

However Fabio is obviously fluent in English, so I'm not sure it would put him at that big of a disadvantage.

No, Diana is right, and having met Fabio, it is true - and he's the first to acknowledge it - that, due to lack of practice, his spoken English is by no means as fluent as his written English. People sometimes fail to realize how big a difference there can be.

[Gilly]

Fair enough. This is obviously a moot point. Time for my bike ride.

[FDG]

Nice try on your part as well, but I was serious.

Okay, let's make gay love then

BTW of course my spoken english sucks and I've never ever hid it, it would be completely nonsensical lol, I mean it would be totally stupid if I ever claimed my spoken english was good and then maybe I meet a forum member and I can barely communicate

[Gilly]

gillyfabieseks <3

[Ezra]

lol @ the fabiogilly conflict

actually no; it's been going on very persistently for over a year. it's not a molehill.

I have to say that this does not sound AT ALL like someone with Ne in her ego block. And the "INTj" sounds like a Te type.

I must say I have not had a particular interest in your type, eunice, but not liking shades of gray, being annoyed by tangents . . . this is not the talk of someone who values Ne, let alone someone who has it in her ego block.

Yes! You're back. Nice to hear from you again, Nicky.

[misutii]

Just thought I would like to share some random events and thoughts:

My encounter with an INTj:

I attended a two-day workshop on Interview and Selection. Instead of going straight to the topic of interest, the INTj instructor deviated quite a bit by sharing some interesting anecdotes and basically his life story and achievements. Even though he attempted to link them to his points, I was a little irritated by the deviation which took up quite a substantial part of the course. I would have preferred him to be on track rather than ramble on about something which is distantly related to the topic of interest.

I am also someone who prefers issues to be in black and white rather have gray areas, even though I know it is impossible. Hence, I prefer things to be either right or wrong. Moreover, I like people who are quick decision makers and do things fast because I am not like that. lol. I am someone who needs to read everything to the detail before making a decision. Hence, I am quite slow in making a decision because I need to understand something very thoroughly first.

Eunice one question. In university/college/school when you had an exam in a course, what was your way of preparing for the exam? i.e. for a psychology/multiple choice exam how would go about memorizing/learning the information necessary

[eunice]

That's interesting. I quite enjoy listening to side stories and anecdotes. It makes it far more interesting. It also, as far as learning goes makes the information more memorable and ties it together much better for me. While it does me no good to learn for instance that Lear invented the 8-track, and why, or how Coors originally made ceramics, and was commissioned to build a very cool engine that had to be dismantled, or personal life stories about the instrctor, I'd rather hear about that kind of thing than just the straight boring information. Unless he/she is just a pompous windbag who is glorifying him/herself and there's no point at all to it (which I haven't come across very often tbh).

In the case which I was referring to about the instructor, he was indeed glorifying himself a bit by talking about the good old days and the important people he knows, which I felt was deviating from his subject of interest. It was a two-day workshop, but I felt that the time spent in the subject only comprises half a day. The other time was used to share his stories which don't seem relevant to the subject matter at all.

I have to say that this does not sound AT ALL like someone with Ne in her ego block. And the "INTj" sounds like a Te type.

I must say I have not had a particular interest in your type, eunice, but not liking shades of gray, being annoyed by tangents . . . this is not the talk of someone who values Ne, let alone someone who has it in her ego block.

Sometimes I don't like tangents because it takes up quite a bit of time. As for not liking shades of gray, I prefer certainty so that I can make a decision fast. When I am shown the pros and cons of a situation, what makes me hesitate in decision making is when I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I like to have a complete picture and know how things will develop in the long run before I jump into it. For instance, in a work-related situation, I don't mind joining a start-up company if the management has a plan in mind and I am ok with some deviations along the way since situations are always constantly changing.

Eunice one question. In university/college/school when you had an exam in a course, what was your way of preparing for the exam? i.e. for a psychology/multiple choice exam how would go about memorizing/learning the information necessary

I feel that the most effective way to prepare for exams is to practise on past year exam questions, especially when there are "model answers". Even though I understand that there are no "correct" answers for subjects such as Literature, I rely on recommended "model answers" because I feel "safe" to know that I am going in the "right" direction, rather than presenting an answer which the examiner will not like.

Moreover, by practising on questions, I am taking an active approach in learning which topics are considered my weaknesses and where I should focus more on. I don't do well when I am passively reading a textbook and trying to memorise it.That's why I did best in Maths and worst in Literature.

[Mea]

In the case which I was referring to about the instructor, he was indeed glorifying himself a bit by talking about the good old days and the important people he knows, which I felt was deviating from his subject of interest. It was a two-day workshop, but I felt that the time spent in the subject only comprises half a day. The other time was used to share his stories which don't seem relevant to the subject matter at all.

Depends on the content. No idea what he said, but i think that side stories are sometimes interesting, no harm learning from the experiences of another.

Sometimes I don't like tangents because it takes up quite a bit of time. As for not liking shades of gray, I prefer certainty so that I can make a decision fast. When I am shown the pros and cons of a situation, what makes me hesitate in decision making is when I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I like to have a complete picture and know how things will develop in the long run before I jump into it. For instance, in a work-related situation, I don't mind joining a start-up company if the management has a plan in mind and I am ok with some deviations along the way since situations are always constantly changing.

Sounds Se & Ti valuing IMO

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Wittmont]

Sounds Se & Ti valuing IMO

Are you thinking ISTj?

[Logos]

hmm You're kind of like my opposite eunice.

Like a captain oblivious?

[eunice]

hmm You're kind of like my opposite eunice.

In what way? The way we approach workshops and college?

[eunice]

You still haven't described what it was about this instructor that made him an INTj.

Ah....I missed your question earlier on.

He seems to advocate Alpha values and take things in a Ne direction. Ij>Ep. He reminds me of John Nash as well.

[leckysupport]

He seems to advocate Alpha values

How is that?

[Ezra]

hmm You're kind of like my opposite eunice.

Don't you think that of everyone?

How is that?

Yes, indeed. How is that, eunice?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[eunice]

How is that?

He seems to talk alot about serving the community and is proud of his wife who owns a shop and creates employment for breast cancer patients. He enjoys talking about himself, achievements in life and the people he knows. Moreover, he cleverly portrays himself in a very positive light without downplaying his achievements at all. To elaborate his points, he enjoys sharing interesting anecdotes and can go tangential from the main topic. Moreover, he also stems his points from certain theories and seem to be concerned about their definition and how it relates to the point he is focusing.

Hence, I feel that it is likely that he is an Alpha type.

In almost everything. But that's one example. I've never in my life tried to study for a literature exam. There was never a need to. Once I read the material, I can form my own opinions on it, and don't really care what someone else thinks is the "right" answer. If you can back up your opinion, then it's right, as far as literature goes.

In some other subjects, I'd write what was expected for the answer, sometimes even beginning the essay with "The following is what you want to hear:" or something like that. And then after writing what they wanted, would continue on with a new section to give my own opinion and reasons.

I didn't like math, and one reason was because unlike essay writing where you were creating something of your own, and expounding on your own ideas, math was a memorization of formulas and reguritating them to get pre-determined answers that left zero room for anything else.

Hmmm, Maths happened to be my strength and I used to score very well at ease while I was in school. Rather than memorizing the formulas, I am more interested in how the formulas have been derived because it provides me with a more complete picture and clearer understanding of the problem.

When writing in exams, I prefer to be sure and write what the examiner is looking for, rahter than create something of my own. I would enjoy the autonomy to write whatever I want for essays on normal school days, but I don't want to risk getting a bad grade for writing someone which the examiner doesn't agree with.

Now, I do like directions to be clear, and to know what is expected, and for things not to be too open-ended, but to tell me what to think, and how to think it? Yikes! That's a prisoning of the mind.

I don't mean telling me what or how to think. As mentioned earlier, I meant knowing what people want and producing what they are looking for, especially for exams.

Also, I DON'T want things to be black and white, because I'll categorize them myself how I want. I want all the subtleties, so I can mull them all over and decide the most appropriate track myself for whatever it is.

I was referring to having a higher certainty or preference for one thing over another.

Other ways that we're different is in your practical approach to work and finding a job and everything. I would much rather do something that REALLY interests me, that I love, and don't care a thing about whether there's room for advancement or the wages or anything like that. If I enjoy what I do, that's what life's about isn't it? It's not about being bored stiff so you can make money to buy useless things, it's about really living and experiencing life, doing what you love and being with those you love, creating things of your own, forming your life as yours, not as anyone else's ideas of meaningless things like "success", "stability" and the like.

Besides doing something we enjoy and good at, I feel that career advancement and been paid fairly are important factors as well. When I am referring to "career advancement", I was not talking about social status but rather taking on bigger job scopes over the years to challenge yourself as an individual and testing your limits.

I believe that you were viewing my career aspirations in a materialistic point of view.

And I have the opposite problem that you have, rather than thinking about every little thing and worrying about how this or that will turn out, I will often get impatient and just do something, and then afterwards think about it, once I've already started, and that's when I have to take stock and decide whether I'm going to continue or change course. I have to forcibly remind myself of the possible consequences at times since my natural tendency is to think that everything will be fine and work itself out.

For me, I will visualise the different scenarios before leaping into the matter directly. This is to ensure that I make the best out of the situation. Sometimes, I tend to worry about the future because anything is possible to happen. At times, I will have contigency plans just in case things don't work out the way I want. However, I will welcome surprises as well because you never know whether it is a blessing in disguise.

[Expat]

He seems to talk alot about serving the community and is proud of his wife who owns a shop and creates employment for breast cancer patients. He enjoys talking about himself, achievements in life and the people he knows. Moreover, he cleverly portrays himself in a very positive light without downplaying his achievements at all. To elaborate his points, he enjoys sharing interesting anecdotes and can go tangential from the main topic. Moreover, he also stems his points from certain theories and seem to be concerned about their definition and how it relates to the point he is focusing.

Hence, I feel that it is likely that he is an Alpha type.

Nothing of what you described makes Alpha obviously more likely than other quadras. If you care to, perhaps you might say precisely what you see there that's supposedly Alpha. But perhaps it's a moot point, since the overall evidence so far suggests that you have a very different (and, in my opinion, very erroneous) understanding of types, quadras and of socionics in general. I'm not saying this to be hostile; just my impression from what I've been observing. The reason why so many here question your typings, and your own type, is precisely because your overall understanding of socionics seems based on different assumptions, to put it mildly.

So, it makes no sense to use reference points such as "Alpha" and "INTj" etc if you have other kinds of people in mind when you use those terms. We might as well be talking in different languages.

[Logos]

Nothing of what you described makes Alpha obviously more likely than other quadras. If you care to, perhaps you might say precisely what you see there that's supposedly Alpha. But perhaps it's a moot point, since the overall evidence so far suggests that you have a very different (and, in my opinion, very erroneous) understanding of types, quadras and of socionics in general. I'm not saying this to be hostile; just my impression from what I've been observed. The reason why so many here question your typings, and your own type, is precisely because your overall understanding of socionics seems based on different assumptions, to put it mildly.

So, it makes no sense to use reference points such as "Alpha" and "INTj" etc if you have other kinds of people in mind when you use those terms. We might as well be talking in different languages.

It essentially has the usefulness of someone using the word "cat" when they talk about a dog.

[eunice]

Nothing of what you described makes Alpha obviously more likely than other quadras. If you care to, perhaps you might say precisely what you see there that's supposedly Alpha. But perhaps it's a moot point, since the overall evidence so far suggests that you have a very different (and, in my opinion, very erroneous) understanding of types, quadras and of socionics in general. I'm not saying this to be hostile; just my impression from what I've been observing. The reason why so many here question your typings, and your own type, is precisely because your overall understanding of socionics seems based on different assumptions, to put it mildly.

So, it makes no sense to use reference points such as "Alpha" and "INTj" etc if you have other kinds of people in mind when you use those terms. We might as well be talking in different languages.

It essentially has the usefulness of someone using the word "cat" when they talk about a dog.

Frankly, I find it hard to explain it in words about why I think he might be Alpha, but thanks for all of your suggestions so far. I will look into that and take it into consideration. =)