Introverted sensing Si in INTjs and ENTps

[Rubicon]

What does it look like? How does it feel?

[Creepy-bg]

it looks like this...

[Rubicon]

it looks like this...

You're making my HA go into overdrive, because I'm sure there's something really deep and enlightening lurking in that sentence .... What is it? What is it? :-(

[Creepy-bg]

You're making my HA go into overdrive, because I'm sure there's something really deep and enlightening lurking in that sentence .... What is it? What is it? :-(

I'm not telling! *evil knowing laugh*

[Blaze]

huh well i think Si dual seeking is a lot of things. it's a harmonious, beautiful balanced environment. it's a great meal. it's having your feet rubbed after a long day. it's really long slow drawn out sex. it's a backrub. it's beautiful artwork. it's watching the dance. it's fresh strawberries.

you know.

if i can't get these things from someone else, i feel absolutely compelled to get them myself.

[Wynch]

huh well i think Si dual seeking is a lot of things. it's a harmonious, beautiful balanced environment. it's a great meal. it's having your feet rubbed after a long day. it's really long slow drawn out sex. it's a backrub. it's beautiful artwork. it's watching the dance. it's fresh strawberries.

you know.

if i can't get these things from someone else, i feel absolutely compelled to get them myself.

Wow...That doesn't sound very ILE to me at all. For me it's more like this: I wake up. I say to myself, I want to look nice today, but then I realize that it takes work and I suck at it. So I toss something on. Then I decide I'm hungry. But what do I want to eat? I'm craving something, but what is it. And I look around the house. I can't find it. Oh well, I'll just put off eating until I'm almost starving. Or perhaps the best example of all: It's night time and I'm setting my alarm. I suppose I COULD get up an extra half hour early and get ready properly in the morning. Nope, I'll give myself half an hour to get up and to the bus stop. Do I get out of bed on time? Nope, I have ten minutes to get out of bed, make myself at least semi put together and limp to the bus stop because I've been procrastinating all of those things.

In essence my Si works like this: I kind of want to look nice, and have things look nice, and have things all the way I want, but actually doing that will always take a back seat to pretty much everything else. It's not very high on my list of priorities. But every once and a while my brain implodes and I need to make everything perfect so I go out and get my hair done and go shopping with my girl friends, etc.

[Blaze]

Wow...That doesn't sound very ILE to me at all.

i think you mean that doesn't sound very much like YOU at all. and that is probably because you are at least 20 years younger than i am.

20 years ago i was like you. almost exactly. as you age, though, these inner forces within you start to awaken and exert influence. i've always said if you don't have someone in your life who is strong in your dual seeking you will start to engage your dual seeking function. it takes a fair amount of study and energy though....someone with Si in their ego block effortlessly does the Si things that i have to totally think through and plan.

the whole thing with dual seeking is that those needs are so unconscious. you don't really realize that you have them. all you know is that when you are around people who have it in their ego block you feel better.

but that is one of the points of socionics....making the unconscious conscious. come back in 20 years and see what you say lol.

[Rubicon]

I just can't get my head around it to be honest. I mean I think if I had to pick one function to be bad at, Si would win for me hands down. Because it's essential to everyday living, so if you're not naturally good at it, it's something you have to learn, like it or not. You don't have to wonder how to do something - just watch a million other people do the same things every day. Everyone picks up Si skills by default. It's like learning your native language - everyone has to do it; it may come easier to some, but you're going to pick it up just through assimilation if nothing else.

Ne on the other hand - it's like some castle in the sky that I can't even get my head around, let alone produce. I know it when I see it, but I feel like anything creative that pops into my head does so purely by chance. And that makes it fake - like it's not really Ne if there's no thought process behind it. It's just luck or something. I mean with Si you can simply watch and learn. Ne - you either have it or you don't.

[Wynch]

i think you mean that doesn't sound very much like YOU at all. and that is probably because you are at least 20 years younger than i am.

20 years ago i was like you. almost exactly. as you age, though, these inner forces within you start to awaken and exert influence. i've always said if you don't have someone in your life who is strong in your dual seeking you will start to engage your dual seeking function. it takes a fair amount of study and energy though....someone with Si in their ego block effortlessly does the Si things that i have to totally think through and plan.

Sorry, I just meant that the way you were describing it didn't sound like Si suggestive in it's natural element. I wouldn't say that ILE feels absolutely compelled to do Si when no one else is going to do it. More like we recognize that it has to be done in order to continue with what's important. At this point in my life, you're right, I'm more likely to put it off until the last minute. And as I get older and I have more responsibilities influencing others, you're right, I'll probably be more organized about doing those Si things (ugh..). I just didn't really like you wording of it, because it sounded as though it was something that we really wanted to do, which didn't seem entirely truthful to me. I've always thought of it as a necessary chore, which feels great when it's done because I can feel the effects of it. That being said, if someone does it for me, my life is awesome because I get the benefit of Si by someone who's so much better with it than I am and I never had to have a part in it's preperation.

[Wynch]

Yes, I know what the suggestive function is. But to say that you're compelled is implying that you're forcefully driven to something, not out of necessity, but because something has driven you to it, where as with the suggestive people are more likely to try because they see that it's needed and eventually move on because it's too much work. It's just a strong word. If I was compelled to deal with Si I would go make a 3 course meal and see it through to the end, proper place settings and everything. Si compulsion is pretty rare, imo. Your health issues are the perfect example. If you were compelled by Si you would suck it up, ditch the meds, start sleeping and eating properly. But you're not, so Si takes a back bench.

About your health issues, I know exactly what you're going through (minus focusing meds). The way I managed to turn things around was sheer force of will, some old fashioned logical reasoning, and some people kicking my ass. You're falling into a cycle that, the farther in, the harder it gets to kick. I know it's easier said than done, but you really need to tell your Doc about everything that's going on. Stress is a killer, and it's not always mental. The strain you're putting on your body will really come to kick you in the pants soon. Doc's are good at Si, let give you a hand in the right direction. And get better

[Rubicon]

You don't really know how I'm dealing with my problems because I've never told you.

I DO think about my health, but mostly because other people keep telling me about how poor it is. I'm aware, but I don't really see it as well as others do. Perhaps the only reason I'm not compelled to do anything is because it's not really a problem for me.

Sure. I don't sleep much, waking up sucks, but in an hour I'm energized.
I may not eat much either, but it's because I don't feel hungry. I really am alright in person.
I don't feel bad at all. There may be a problem, but if there is, it's one that doesn't affect me in any way that I care about.


EDIT: Basically, I fucking would be compelled to do something about my health if I could FEEL the problem. But I don't, so I'm not.

You may not feel it, but you must be able to see it. Objectively speaking. I mean you would see the problem if someone else were doing the same wouldn't you?

And you've said that it's hard for you to tell what your body needs, so why trust your feelings on this one?

[xyz]

Si is fucking effortless, you people need to try more.

Hint: it ain't about cooking meals!

[Blaze]

Sorry, I just meant that the way you were describing it didn't sound like Si suggestive in it's natural element. I wouldn't say that ILE feels absolutely compelled to do Si when no one else is going to do it. More like we recognize that it has to be done in order to continue with what's important. At this point in my life, you're right, I'm more likely to put it off until the last minute. And as I get older and I have more responsibilities influencing others, you're right, I'll probably be more organized about doing those Si things (ugh..). I just didn't really like you wording of it, because it sounded as though it was something that we really wanted to do, which didn't seem entirely truthful to me. I've always thought of it as a necessary chore, which feels great when it's done because I can feel the effects of it. That being said, if someone does it for me, my life is awesome because I get the benefit of Si by someone who's so much better with it than I am and I never had to have a part in it's preperation.

as you study socionics more i think these issues will be clarified in your mind. at this point i don't think you've been here very long have you? how long have you been studying this and how long have you been observing people with socionics in mind?

what you are referring to here, getting things done, being organized, etc, is actually Se, not Si. and yeah you are right in that ILE is not going to be super disciplined about completing what is perceived as the mundane details of life.

i'll try to give an example. there's this girl at work, she's like maybe 22 years old, an IEE, so quite a lot like ILE with respect to Si, since Si is the dual seeking of that type also. but anyway, she dresses SO funny. like, she doesn't know how to match styles and colors and textures. yet you can't help but love her. when i see her i remember that i was like this, too. like, i always wished that i could put together that totally cool style when i was young, but couldn't. and i can kinda see that she is like that also. so it's like she (and I) value Si, that really attractive, pulled together look, but she can't do it. over time, since i value Si a lot, i worked to develop a fashion sense. but it was work, it didn't come naturally. this happened in my late 20's and 30's. nowadays, most people tell me i have a great style and look.

my point is that when you value something, you are drawn to it. whether other people have it or whether you want to get better at it yourself. the dual seeking is an unconscious function, so it is just outside of your awareness that you really value it....so in order to get your mind focused on it, you have to make it conscious and pay attention to it. then it becomes more conscious....and you are freer in a way.

[Blaze]

Si is fucking effortless, you people need to try more.

Hint: it ain't about cooking meals!

yeah the cooking analogy definitely gets overused when talking about Si. lv, how do you describe it and see it? i mean, like, from one who knows, like you? :-)

[xyz]

yeah the cooking analogy definitely gets overused when talking about Si. lv, how do you describe it and see it? i mean, like, from one who knows, like you? :-)

Why thank you for asking SL!


I see it as a balance, a harmony of your own senses. So that can be expressed in quite a few different ways, it depends more on the why:

In health: having your body fit and healthy usually keeps your mind healthy as well. So, you feel like your body and mind are at harmony, as opposed to , you know, constantly uncomfertable or stressed & sick (stuff I actively try to get away from ALL the time)

In cooking: Can not only crate a harmony of helping your own health, but can create a direct link between a skillset (ie, cooking your own veggies) and that health. A harmony between a picture in your mind (how you think the food is made) and the actions of your hands (how to actually make that damn steak)

Relating to people: I like to just keep good relations with people mostly because stressed feelings tend to stress me out, and like I said stress can effect my body, which can make me feel unhealthy which I'd actively want to stay away from. (See, it's all connected ) A harmoney between my mental state and other's mental state.

I just picked the stuff most people always tend to bring up (health, diet, etc).

It's basically keeping everything in your life that really affects any of your 5 senses in balance (Whatever that means to you). That's the core of Si, to me.

[Blaze]

Why thank you for asking SL!


I see it as a balance, a harmony of your own senses. So that can be expressed in quite a few different ways, it depends more on the why:

In health: having your body fit and healthy usually keeps your mind healthy as well. So, you feel like your body and mind are at harmony, as opposed to , you know, constantly uncomfertable or stressed & sick (stuff I actively try to get away from ALL the time)

In cooking: Can not only crate a harmony of helping your own health, but can create a direct link between a skillset (ie, cooking your own veggies) and that health.

Relating to people: I like to just keep good relations with people mostly because stressed feelings tend to stress me out, and like I said stress can effect my body, which can make me feel unhealthy which I'd actively want to stay away from. (See, it's all connected )

I just picked the stuff most people always tend to bring up (health, diet, etc).

It's basically keeping everything in your life that you care about in harmony, balance (Whatever that means to you). That's the core of Si, to me.

man you are so right about this. i get stressed out very easily. and out of balance. i can "do" Si type of things like cook, and exercise, and try to keep things on an even keel in my relationships, but i can't do them all at once or keep a balance between them. like right now my garden looks great but i haven't exercised in 2 years. my wardrobe needs work but my fridge is full of healthy foods. i'm inherently an excessive, addictive person who over does or under does everything. LOL!!!

i'm a little humbled i think by your post since i've been thinking i'm better at Si than i really am. it's more like i try but can't keep it all together like an Si dominant can.

[xyz]

man you are so right about this. i get stressed out very easily. and out of balance. i can "do" Si type of things like cook, and exercise, and try to keep things on an even keel in my relationships, but i can't do them all at once or keep a balance between them. like right now my garden looks great but i haven't exercised in 2 years. my wardrobe needs work but my fridge is full of healthy foods. i'm inherently an excessive, addictive person who over does or under does everything. LOL!!!

i'm a little humbled i think by your post since i've been thinking i'm better at Si than i really am. it's more like i try but can't keep it all together like an Si dominant can.

Heh no worries, trust me, no matter how much I 'practice' Ne, I can never EVER be a natural. My brain just doesn't go that way. Can't see the forest behind the trees, you know?
And yeah, I usually 'sense' when I've been neglecting excercise, or when I need a break from it, or when I haven't developed my cooking skills in some time, or when I have indulged in too many cookies. I kinda just 'sense' it in a way I suppose since i'm always so plugged inside my own self.


But that creates limits as I see it. Like I cannot spot trends at all. AT ALL. I'm so bad at pattern recognition. I totally suck at knowing all of my options. Basically anything external that you can't really 'sense' with just ONE your 5 senses, I suck at.


At least, that's how I kinda see Ne.

[Ms. Kensington]

I just can't get my head around it to be honest. I mean I think if I had to pick one function to be bad at, Si would win for me hands down. Because it's essential to everyday living, so if you're not naturally good at it, it's something you have to learn, like it or not. You don't have to wonder how to do something - just watch a million other people do the same things every day. Everyone picks up Si skills by default. It's like learning your native language - everyone has to do it; it may come easier to some, but you're going to pick it up just through assimilation if nothing else.

Ne on the other hand - it's like some castle in the sky that I can't even get my head around, let alone produce. I know it when I see it, but I feel like anything creative that pops into my head does so purely by chance. And that makes it fake - like it's not really Ne if there's no thought process behind it. It's just luck or something. I mean with Si you can simply watch and learn. Ne - you either have it or you don't.

you sound like you really value Ne and are weak in it and are strong in Si. Grass is always greener huh.

Well i always strive to be more Si in an artistic sense. My mother is ISFp and she just has natural style. She looks great in a tshirt and jeans. Heck she looks great in sweatpants because she always considers the proportions and looks like she is harmonious. We like the same things and have similar taste, but i have to obsess 10 hours to put the tshirt and jeans together like she does. I have trouble feeling at ease with what i've done too. I think some of this is Se, but I definitely value a harmonious appearance.

By the way yes I do think Ne is pretty cool.

[Blaze]

@lv: well i guess that's what your dual is for huh? well Ne seems as effortless to me as Si is to you; it's kinda just there, kinda i just perceive things that way. you've actually helped me to understand this a lot better. thanks!

[Rubicon]

you sound like you really value Ne and are weak in it and are strong in Si. Grass is always greener huh.

Well i always strive to be more Si in an artistic sense. My mother is ISFp and she just has natural style. She looks great in a tshirt and jeans. Heck she looks great in sweatpants because she always considers the proportions and looks like she is harmonious. We like the same things and have similar taste, but i have to obsess 10 hours to put the tshirt and jeans together like she does. I have trouble feeling at ease with what i've done too. I think some of this is Se, but I definitely value a harmonious appearance.

Can you recognise a 'harmonious appearance' when you see one? I mean - if someone were to tell you the right things to wear would you agree with their choices?

By the way yes I do think Ne is pretty cool.

I have no doubt that it would win the Ultimate Function award should there be a battle of the functions.

[xyz]

@lv: well i guess that's what your dual is for huh? well Ne seems as effortless to me as Si is to you; it's kinda just there, kinda i just perceive things that way. you've actually helped me to understand this a lot better. thanks!

You've helped me too, nooo problem!

[Ms. Kensington]

oh.. some examples of Si seeking and valuing (with Fe)

LII: seek to maintain peace and minimize conflict between persons by rationalizing
ILE: seek to maintain peace and minimize conflict by diverting and raising mood

LII: needs someone to care for their physical needs
ILE: needs someone to create emotional calm (in my experience. both LII and ILE need outward expression of emotion and can handle passionate outbursts, but i think overall an ILE will stress if others create moral drama. Its absence is what an ILE needs, more than an LII).

ILE: likes clean neat appearance, clean hygeine (sp)
LII: likes clean neat surroundings <-- not sure about these ^

[xyz]

Oh what I wouldn't do for a girl who honestly dislikes drama...

[Ms. Kensington]

Oh what I wouldn't do for a girl who honestly dislikes drama...

hm yeah.. if youre Fe polr that would apply to you too... but in a different sense of course. I think drama.. like acting.. is sexy. It's in my wiring.. otherwise i hate it

[diljs]

Oh what I wouldn't do for a girl who honestly dislikes drama...

Seconded...why are you freaking out, lady? Can we just chill and watch the movie here?

[Wynch]

Thanks, SL. In retrospect, I see what you're saying now, and you're right, there was a little confusion on my part. So I apologize for going on about it

I still think the word's a little strong!

But now I'm just being nitpicky, lol.

[Ms. Kensington]

whoa loki.. i just read your posts that came before mine. I didn't read them before i posted.!

but reading your post.. wow Si dominants make me so relaxed i might pass wind.

[Blaze]

Thanks, SL. In retrospect, I see what you're saying now, and you're right, there was a little confusion on my part. So I apologize for going on about it

I still think the word's a little strong!

But now I'm just being nitpicky, lol.

lol no problem, dual seeking is a tough one to get your mind around for sure. but, by compelled i mean that your situation will compel you to do something about it. this, coupled with your values will determine what you do.

like, for me, do i want to keep looking out of place and geeky in my professional role? no, especially since i value Si. do i want to eat mcdonald's for dinner every night? no, so if there is no Si dominant around to cook, i'm going to have to learn to cook myself. now maybe if i didn't value Si, i'd spend money on good food rather than cooking it myself, but since i value Si, i'm going to figure out how to put a good meal on the table.

[Wynch]

Yeah, I see what you're saying now. For instance if I want to go out, I don't want to look like a bum. There are some that might not care and think it's fine to go out in whatever they're already wearing, and others who just change into something nice and get all spiffed up because it comes to them naturally. Instead, I generally have to muddle through it, which is a little frustrating, but I do it because I'm conscious that if I don't, I'll look like a lame-o loser. But if one of my former roomies volunteered to help me with my hair and make-up, then I was totally excited because I knew that they would do a good job, whereas I always second guess myself.

[Rubicon]

Yeah, I see what you're saying now. For instance if I want to go out, I don't want to look like a bum. There are some that might not care and think it's fine to go out in whatever they're already wearing, and others who just change into something nice and get all spiffed up because it comes to them naturally. Instead, I generally have to muddle through it, which is a little frustrating, but I do it because I'm conscious that if I don't, I'll look like a lame-o loser. But if one of my former roomies volunteered to help me with my hair and make-up, then I was totally excited because I knew that they would do a good job, whereas I always second guess myself.

Funny - I don't like when friends offer to do my hair or something (unless they're playing around) because I think I'll probably just want to fix it afterwards. :-)

[Wynch]

It's a relief for me. I always go clothes shopping with my best friend as well so she can veto my decision when I'm about to do something retarded. We both understand that I prefer a bit of an edgy style most of the time, but she recognizes when I've pushed the box too far

[Ms. Kensington]

Can you recognise a 'harmonious appearance' when you see one? I mean - if someone were to tell you the right things to wear would you agree with their choices?
I have no doubt that it would win the Ultimate Function award should there be a battle of the functions.

yes i think i recognize harmonious appearance.. but somehow can't recreate it. makes me feel dumb.

[Blaze]

Yeah, I see what you're saying now. For instance if I want to go out, I don't want to look like a bum. There are some that might not care and think it's fine to go out in whatever they're already wearing, and others who just change into something nice and get all spiffed up because it comes to them naturally. Instead, I generally have to muddle through it, which is a little frustrating, but I do it because I'm conscious that if I don't, I'll look like a lame-o loser. But if one of my former roomies volunteered to help me with my hair and make-up, then I was totally excited because I knew that they would do a good job, whereas I always second guess myself.

exactly. and after some years, you will have gotten better at it and will do it yourself more consistently.

but like to do what lokivanguard does automatically? not gonna happen no matter how much practice you get.