After watching these (especially the last one) im inclined to say SLE. What do you all think?
Charles Manson
After watching these (especially the last one) im inclined to say SLE. What do you all think?
Last edited by silke; 10-02-2020 at 09:22 AM. Reason: updated links
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
SLE makes sense.Originally Posted by liveandletlive
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
interesting you say SLE because while i can see it in the last video, my first thought after watching the first video was IEI gone bad.
what i mean by that is basically that there was an intentional dramatic flare in his speech and certain metaphysical way of describing/questioning things. the tendency to raise a question (the answer which he assumes is expected of the audience), then answer it, revealing that he actually believes the opposite of what is expected, is apparent. while i would imagine that this tendency is due more to manic/psychotic behavior in his case, i would be interested to explore the possibility that this is either: a.) an example of Ni/Fe in dire need of dualization (and/or perhaps as an INFp victim learning only to victimize others through unhealthy interactions largely beyond his control) OR b.) an example of Se/Ti Ni-dual seeking in twisted fashion (Ni seeking as manifest in the poetic, rhetorical, metaphysical flare).
check out the interview with charlie rose (1 of 7):
Last edited by reyn_til_runa; 05-21-2008 at 10:54 AM.
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
hmmm i could see that too especially after watching that charlie rose interview you posted. he definitely was trying to be deep with his paradoxes, metaphors, imagery, etc. however a few things:
1) in the 2nd video i posted when he basically tries to attack the judge when the judge didn't really do anything THAT awful to him other than reestablish his dominance in the courtroom pissed him off so much so (claiming that he had a system) that he lunged at him from across the room. now i no hes insane but to me that seems like sumthin very. Conversely, I can also see how it's
would be good at knowing this would happen) rather than to actually piss off the judge (which an
would be more interested in doing to show him who's the boss of the courtroom). However this interpretation is a little nebulous seeing as it really depends on his intent. It just seemed to me like he didn't really mean to hurt him.
2) In reading about his early life on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Manson
he seems almost to be too good at being
3) The fact that his mother sold him to some lady for a pitcher of beer makes me think that he's an SLE that received no love, couldn't fulfill his HA and repeatedly shows a complete disregard for his PoLR in favor of his 2 dominant functions. However, he seemed proud of his accomplishments- what he got away with, what he achieved ($$, women, etc.) and bragged about it which makes me feel like he could be an IEI showing off how skilled he is at using his valued, weak
4) Just the fact that he was a cult leader and had so many women groveling at his feet makes me automatically assume Beta NF in that they're able to charm the masses and then get them to do sum evil shit. however this is a stereotype and i cud see an SLE using his ability to get along with almost everyone (PoLR) to manipulate these women to get him what he wants (
therefore, i have no fucking clue
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
I saw a very long interview with him on the History Channel this past winter break and was fairly convinced of IEI by the time it was over.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
He's mostly crazy, but I also think he's pretty misunderstood.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Charles Manson
I was thinking SLE or ILE, but what do you think based on these videos other than the fact that he is insane?He does sound pretty level headed when he was younger, when he's older he seems to be a bit out of it.
Last edited by Raver; 08-11-2011 at 06:59 AM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
funny guy. probably SLE.
I went through a Manson fascination stage as a teen and read every book I could find. He did create a fantasy world of drugs, sex, music, emotion, and unity (sense of family) that lured in those looking for some kind of connection they weren't getting at home. So many of his followers were just teens. He manipulated their minds and emotions with great skill.
I had just watched an episode of Walking Dead a couple days ago and I believe King Ezekiel is also EIE and has a "magic man" personality like Manson but Ezekiel's is in a more positive manifestation.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Who the fuck cares what such a psychopath's sociotype is?! To the guillotine!!!...
Off with his head!! Such scums shouldn't be left alive by society!!
He vis like istj.
I went with LSE-se for Manson.
I was actually thinking about that. I don't think I've ever seen an avatar that ignites a fiery rage in me just by looking at it..... but his or her or whatever fucking gender that appeals to does.
I'm a "she", obviously. How could a man ever use an avatar like this??I was actually thinking about that. I don't think I've ever seen an avatar that ignites a fiery rage in me just by looking at it..... but his or her or whatever fucking gender that appeals to does.
I couldn't expect anything else from an ILI...
There are states where the capital punishment is still applied, in the 21st century. Do you consider this to be an anachronism? Actually, I think the Law of the Talion is not unjust. Why should criminals be supported by the working population? Don't give me the "you're no better than them" reply. When sociopaths take someone's life (too often by horrible methods), they lose their human rights. If they knew they would be properly punished maybe they would think twice before taking someone's life. The electric chair is the only more scary method I can think of, and unfortunately it's no longer applied.So, basically you're no better than he is—if not worse, since you wish your hands of personal responsibility for murder in the name of 'society'.
Also, you have the worst avatar on this entire forum. Jesus fucking christ.
You must have no sense of humor, if you don't like my avatar...
There are states where the capital punishment is still applied, in the 21st century. Do you consider this to be an anachronism? Actually, I think the Law of the Talion is not unjust. Why should criminals be supported by the working population? Don't give me the "you're no better than them" reply. When sociopaths take someone's life (too often by horrible methods), they lose their human rights. If they knew they would be properly punished maybe they would think twice before taking someone's life. The electric chair is the only more scary method I can think of, and unfortunately it's no longer applied.
You must have no sense of humor, if you don't like my avatar...
This is incredibly disturbing because it only means one thing: Roberpierre would find your avatar funny.
I wash my hands of personal responsibility for murder in the name of society.So, basically you're no better than he is—if not worse, since you wish your hands of personal responsibility for murder in the name of 'society'.
Also, you have the worst avatar on this entire forum. Jesus fucking christ.
I want to be the next dexter. or better yet, let there be a real life dexter, and I'll be his lumen.
charles manson coulda be EIE.
I think he was an EIE, but obviously insane and not a good exemplification of the type.
The self-labeled "guru" had a proficiency in manipulating people with his grandeur ideology and charismatic charm, something I think EIE's tend to excel at more than any other type, inspiring people to such an intense devotion (IMO Martin Luther King Jr and likely Jesus being more positive examples of this)
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
I think people overstate his "manipulative" abilities. I think what happened is mostly a result of circumstance and dumbfound timing.
The guy essentially grew up in the prison system, and at the time he was released you had american society in the middle of the whole 1960's rebellion against 1950's america.
1) you have a guy who doesn't integrate into society well, his best option for finding people to interact with was with the counter-culture as they didn't want to integrate with society.
2) you have a revolution going on based on freedom of people's inner desires and rebelling against the strict bureaucratic ordered/controlled/standardized mentality of the 1950's. When a person from the prison world jumps on board with this its no wonder his concept of rebellion involves something from his experience in prison. I mean the entire idea of helter skelter... killing rich white people, blaming it on black people, and then letting the white and black people kill each other so that a new order can be established sounds like someone projecting their experience from prison onto normal society.
I think what happened with the manson murders is still horrible, but it seems like his media image as some highly influential cult leader who is incredibly intelligent is overplayed, I find that instead of buying into the whole idea of him as the boogey man its easy to follow the events and clearly see how it happened in a rational manner without the need for all the fear/hype. In fact I find that in some ways the events, while not justifiable, are in a way an expression of the problems of the era.... the disillusioned counter-culture and the convict who is jaded and can't integrate into society. Looking beyond the horrific events its almost sympathetic, it makes you feel bad for how shitty our society is, how ineffective the prison system is and how it jades people and how lost people are fling from one extreme reaction movement to the next. I find that instead of living in fear over the whole thing, instead I can kind of begin to understand the events and get a sense of sympathy for the whole thing in the big picture. Manson's life is pretty much over, people will never let him out, what happened shocked society so much, that he is almost a symbol for the fears of an entire era, keeping him locked up psychologically protects people from having to confront those fears, but it will never solve the problem, its only really been transmuted and evolved to a more progressive point.
I don't know what type he is, NT or NF seems like a good bet but people in prison always seem more ST than they may really be, all I can say is intuition is obvious as he's a lot more perceptive in that way than your typical inmate.
Last edited by male; 08-13-2011 at 08:32 AM.
*Manson bump*
Pretty sure he's an Fe leading type. No way LSI or something like that. Remember he was a musician by profession, very social and emotionally skilled. Sometimes during interviews he randomly breaks out into song. What do people think about ESE?
LSI-Se sx/so 6w7 is probably it.
This is straight from the LSI description: "... Often becomes the communicative center of a company. Gravitates to performance of romantic songs with a guitar in the spirit of the movie "Cruel Romance"."
This description is absurd. Manson is EIE. He took his ability to transmit a powerful emotional message and used it to make people kill and destroy. He was largely hands-off and let others do the actual acts of violence for him.
If you want to go off descriptions then let's go on to the next sentence: "appreciates accuracy very much" Manson did not appreciate accuracy in any way...he thought he could convince people that he didn't do anything even though all the facts were clear that he did.
"sober realist. Dislikes unsubstantiated speculations and reckless proposals." -- need I even explain?
He reminds me of my last supervisor. Same eyes and I typed this guy LSI. K4 had him ILE
yeah a real shame. He was like the next john lennon or something
I think we can all agree he's beta gone bad.
From the video clip, I'd say EIE most likely maybe SLE.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I hate typing bad people because I feel like it shouldn't matter. They are a product of a lot of things and a lot of it isn't type related.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
ILE, not EIE
Whyyyyyyyyhy? Oh why!!!!
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Manson is a sociopath, so when it comes to his particular method of conning, the thing to look at is his cognition. He's a possibilities guy. he could even see his vision of helter skelter reflected in something as trite as a Beatles track. reality is never set in stone with manson. the 'what is' never 'is'....you can pick up on this in his interview with Geraldo as he echoes constant contempt for reality. He describes reality as the true prison and himself as the free one. He has little grasp for the facts of his case and his thought process is all over the map. It's just an overlap of intuitions and an orgy of possibility. Se creative works in the realm of reality. A LSI would have been pulled into making their defense on factual grounds, even if they're using spin, manson would have shown some inkling of having built up a case, arguable on a rational ground. Manson makes no pretension for being rational. Instead he's spitting out grandiose visions....and because it was true Ne his intuitions had the capacity to command reflexive submission from people in search of a sidewalk 'guru.' In other words, he excelled at something almost exclusively the domain of Fe, Ne, and Ni. In the self-mythology he cultivates, it went that, after a race war, he and his followers would emerge out of the desert with him as the world's leader....that's some expansive cognition. a sociopathic don quixote.
Se-LSI imo... I think he's a good example of how ego but slightly misguided Se can phase into completely fucked and haphazard Fe.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Either INfj or istj
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I just ran across this, "A Phone Call With Charles Manson".
http://www.theatlantic.com/video/ind...harles-manson/
EIE? Don't know but he is nuts. Talks about real things.
ILE? Oh yes... With this Fi PoLR and all we can go deep and affect them personally... oh wait...
Sure, there are logical type cult leaders but the built a special system around it. Not based on personal charisma.
EIE
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I don't actually know, but he reminds me of my dad both with vi and with similar spazzy demeanor and I've never been able to really see my dad as anything other than Ti base in spite of the fact that behaviorally it seems weird, so seeing Manson typed LSI helps me think I'm not crazy.
I have typed this vegan YouTuber Durianrider as a LSI, his style of talking has always reminded me of a lot of Charles Manson.
Some people seem to assume crazy people are automatically sx first, esp sx/so, that’s not true at all.
He's a psycho sadist SMASH, but I think he makes an excellent point at 7:35-7:49 in @Kill4Me videos. "Do you need someone like that in your world."
I always thought it was very telling that it's not so much that people do these things in society but society's obsession with it. We are the ones that gave him fame. And also in reverse, when people do truly kind things it often goes unnoticed. (not talking about stoopid charity events celebrities do so they will feel a little less narcissistic.) Society/government always had this unhealthy obsession when something bad happens to milk it for all eternity. OH MY FUCKING GOD IT'S JONBENET RAMSEY ON THE COVER OF ANOTHER MAGAZINE!
LSI, the phenomenon we're witnessing is
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