Seems like certain types are more common through race. how does culture influence this? what types are more prelevant where? Discuss
Race & Impact on Personality Types
Seems like certain types are more common through race. how does culture influence this? what types are more prelevant where? Discuss
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" isand not
well, for instance, asians seem more likely to be IJ, while latinos seem more likely to be EP.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
oh dear.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Race has nothing to do with type. Except that racists have stereotypes. For example, EIE for Latinos, SLE for Blacks, IEI for Asians, LIE for Whites, EIE for Arabs, LSI for Jews or such.
Where did these come from?Originally Posted by machintruc
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
No, not culture. Only "race" (meaning genetical differences at the group level) has an effect on which types are more prevalent in different cultures. And there is at least some truth in thePirate's hypothesis about Asians and Latinos.
It would be interesting to do a more serious study of the type differences between different parts of the world through a comparison with the Human Dynamics model, which claims that they have found (empirically) very clear differences between the fundamental types of thinking described in that model and different cultures and countries. They specifically claim that two types that, according to their international studies, are rather rare in the West (around 15 percent of the population) are predominant in China and Japan. Until we have investigated such hypotheses in much more depth we can't rule them out as false. It would not be very surprising if such type differences really exist, and if so, they would of course be reflected in the distribution of the socionic types as well.
This is sham science. There are just as few INTjs among U.S. blacks as there are amongst U.S. whites, latinos, etc.
This thread is threatening to lower my IQ level. Bye.
Get a grip on yourself, tcaudilllg. You are a victim of your own prejudices here. It is totally irrational to assume that the types are evenly distributed among different groups of people. Most likely they are not. And we definitely know for a fact that there are more sensory types overall than there are intuitive types. That empirical fact simply cannot be ignored.
[QUOTE=Phaedrus;358901] No, not culture. Only "race" (meaning genetical differences at the group level) has an effect on which types are more prevalent in different cultures. And there is at least some truth in thePirate's hypothesis about Asians and Latinos.
[QUOTE]
Whoa. This is a real jem right here.
What you mean is not "race" but "population". Still a pretty crazy thing to say.
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
What are you talking about? What exactly is a crazy thing to say?
Types quantities should be close to equal in all races and cultures.
If you know a culture badly and it differs from yours - you may overesteemate a difference in a behavior caused by the personality but not from external reasons.
This reminds me of a thread I started to ask how we determine the integral type of a nation.
It seems to me that, as my country is almost all Celt, then to give my country a nationial type would sort of imply an integral type of the race. This makes me think of the integral types of other predominantly Celtic countries such as Ireland, and it makes me think if there are any similarities between the integral types of the countries-which helps to assist somewhat in determining if "race" type affects nationial type (cause if race type exits would there be similarities in the integral types of the countries?)
It's pretty hypothetical, and there probably isn't a correlation, because I would expect all groups to reach a natural equilibrium in such things, but it's a fair question asked by Pirate, and I don't think he or she meant to be controversial by it.
-Ti says this is a dumb idea. Besides, professional socionists have demonstrated that type distributions are even through statistical samplings. Or did you ignore the "socionics and genetics" thread?
Calling on all INTjs to help me get this guy to shut up with his stupid theories. (no offense, thePirate, but type + race = dangerous combination).
The facts are, race has nothing to do with type. You can expect perhaps an ENFj to be more outwardly bothered by racial issues than an INTj or ISTj, but that's it. Race is a social concept based around a few dominant inherited traits that have nothing to do with type.
Japan seems IJ because it was dominated by the U.S. after WWII and transformed into a technologically advanced culture: an INTj-type culture is naturally pacifist, and that's exactly what the U.S. wanted. China is definitely NOT IJ, so that disproves your theory right there.
They certainly haven't. If they think they have, they have clearly mistyped a lot of people in those samplings. We know for a fact that type distributions are not even.
I'm sorry, tcaudilllg, but you are totally wrong about this.
You don't know that, and there is no reason to assume that race has nothing to do with type. It would be rather strange if it had nothing to do with type. But more research is of course needed to establish the exact correlations.
That is a totally false statement. You should get rid of your own social constructionist fantasies too, tcaudilllg.
Nonsense. Japan was IJ hundreds of years before that.
Only if we interpret the hypothesis very narrowly. According to the Human Dynamics model (which is probably a false theory, even though it may contain many true statements, just like the Enneagram) Japan has more people with a physical-mental thinking pattern, wheras China has more people with a physical-emotional thinking pattern. In a socionic perspective the most obvious aspect of that difference is that Japan would be a more logical country and China a more ethical, according to the findings of Human Dynamics.
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Stupid theory? I posed a question, stop projecting your insecurities.
JXRTES, both, actually. Genetical & Cultural impact.
Hkitty, these weren't drawn based off stereotypes, but my own experiences.
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Look, cut the racist/stereotype bullshit.
Granted, this is an emotional/touchy subject, however, I would expect this to be able to be discussed without resulting in irrational assumptions
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
It's far from a matter of insecurity. There in fact a name for this line of thought, which is "pathological science".
Get some history, kid.
@Cyclops: I think there are some ideas in Bukalov's "Physics of Consciousness and Life" journal. I think Gulenko said something about it also.
You know I think would be better to ask ourselves how people ascribe personality traits to a nation than to speculate as to whether or not it has a type.
No, it's insecurity. Your posts in this thread reek of it. That's fine, all I ask is that you leave, since you've basically contributed little, besides asinine comments.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
You're only basing that off the nerdy asian stereotype. Key words in your post- "seem more likely".
I've met more EP asians than IJ, and still, that has nothing to do with race. ..
IEI, perhaps Fe sub.
It's highly related to subtypes, yes, and probably base types as well.
Examples:
ILE-Ti are obviously more common in European Jews/Jewesses than in Palestinian Arabs. Anglo-Irish people were more likely to be ILE-Ti than the Irish Catholics they oppressed.
SLE-Ti are more common in whites than in blacks.
ESI-Se are more common in whites than blacks and they have a higher white to black ratio than ESI-Fi.
LSI-Se were more common in Anglo-Irish people, LSI-Ti were more common in Irish Catholics.
LSI-Ti were much more common among black slaves than LSI-Se.
I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.
This is so aggressively ignorant
lol.
I don't have anything against Anglo-irish people, I don't think they were really more oppressive than anyone else really and I do think they were great and I'm glad I have no Irish Catholic ancestry, but I've been unhappy that I have matrilineal probable middle eastern catholic ancestry. It makes me feel racially inferior and envious of people I care about.
FWIW, P.W. Botha was an LSI-Ti and he had lead the apartheid state. He was an idiot. Not all LSI-Ti are idiots; however I prefer the sensory subtype.
Maybe I could change my mind about my post you quoted, but most of what I said certainly seems to be how it was to me. I don't want to give people the impression that I think I'm infallible, because I know I'm not and because I couldn't get ahead in life if people were to think I think that I'm infallible.
I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.
Based
heheheh, Oh boy, I can't stop grinning. My face hurts. I don't even know why it's so funny. It just is. Kind of reminds me of @Sol a little bit.
I'm pretty sure tcaud and phaedrus were the same person
The end is nigh
I think race does have an effect on culture, as in how well certain races identify with the culture, how it's influenced, etc. I don't think it's got much to do with personality but can most definitely shape one's public persona.
Probably impacts personality to the extent that being of a certain ethnicity is more likely to expose you to a certain culture and thus a different set of experiences to shape yourself with, but I don't know if it can change personality at the universal/type level.
Like it was mentioned before, people of different races either identify with or grow up in a culture which kind of gives a 'flair' to their personality. So I grew up and lived most of my life in a pretty conservative town in South America where Se and Fe is very strong. Generally Beta values are seen as important, the 'ideal' man is SLE. I mention this because the culture feels a bit like old-fashioned latino culture, where the gender roles are well-defined and men are sexist. I'm sure many people living in big Latin American cities will disagree with me, but the towns far away from the capitals feel very traditional and aggressive overall.
Neither of my parents are Beta, and both of them have weak Se, and I myself am not a Se-valuer (afaik) and despite that I naturally developed some Se, and rejected some Delta/Alpha Ne values like childishness, weakness, etc. Most of the people I met there either rejected the local culture completely (Deltas) or embraced it (Betas) and so I met very few Alphas and Gammas over my 14 years living there. In fact, most of the Alphas (and one ILI) I met which were my friends, were from other cities/provinces or foreigners.
So my country in general and especially the town where I lived, had an Se 'flavour'. North America feels more Gamma or Te-valuing to me, I see a lot of Gammas here which were very rare where I used to live. And I don't think that's a coincidence but it's a cultural thing rather than a racial thing.
I think in the States it’s more along the lines of big city vs smaller towns. The big cities operate on Fe and the smaller towns who are more financially self-sufficient are Te. I was born and raised in Los Angeles, been in and out of LA my entire life. I live in LA now and much of it hasn’t changed. The culture is still super Fe: you’re trying to effect the emotional atmosphere. You want people to notice you by how you’re acting around them. Granted, in big cities it’s Fe sociability, but it’s awfully fake. You’d be hard pressed to make a real friend. I’ve had countless new people take my number and say they’ll call me and we’ll go hangout (they’re transplants, I do have friends whom I grew up with here and we’re solid). Never heard from them again, even when I message them to go places. It’s very Alpha in the big cities which I absolutely hate. I get along with small town people who are Te oriented and we have much to say to each other. Big cities, I basically wanna kill everyone cuz they’re so fake.
I'm 1% Inuit and I'd kill for some smoked pig fat right about now.
Race, culture, country, clique, status and or religion place certain expectations on the behaviour of individuals regardless of their type. Some of these social expectations can often be mapped into a Socionics type; for example, Germany seems rather ISTj-like in its overall expectations of their citizens although type distribution of the German population is no different from other countries. Public personas are worn like uniforms and they often obscure the determination of actual type. The need for such personas is an indication of intolerance for those outside the norm, and such requirements are undercurrents even among the most tolerant because they often look down their noses at those who're intolerant.
a.k.a. I/O
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